My Car is Burning Oil Quicker Now

Dunno about clanking...but cold engine clatter is usually the hydraulic tappets.

I don't see how right lock will effect engine noise!!!
Unless it's CV or differential noise rather than engine noise.... I once contrived to confuse big-end noise with sloppy diff noise...shimmed the diff and then blew a big end 30 miles later...It's called experience .

Try to work out more about the noise...Is it only when you are moving? Try slipping it into neutral while moving to try and determine if it's engine or transmission? Is it rev related. Try the old long screwdriver one end pressed to your ear and other pressed to various engine parts (usual safety warnings for moving parts). Assuming you can actually see the engine in a modern car .

Del

You can't make any prognosis without data. Have you kept records of the oil consumption? Are you monitoring the dipstick oil level? Are you using factory oil filters? How is your radiator fluid level> Any oil in the radiator?

Just because you hear noises does not tell you how much oil you have in the engine.

If the engine makes noises when you turn right it could be oil starvation, but you need to determine where the noise is in fact coming from. I use an automotive stethoscope to pinpoint noises. Get one at an auto store and when the car is started probe around until the noise is loudest.

Read your owners manual. The recommended oil weight and brands should be in there. Use them. Track your oil consumption between changes and write them down in a log.

If you continue to hear noises then have it checked out. It could be any number of things. I just don't have enough information to make a call on your car.

I agree with your 1st paragraph, everything up to the oil in the radiator?? My experience has been the traces of Water in the Oil, (which mixing oil & water when warm, makes an Emulsion gradually turning greyish to more light grey, with the more water added.) The reason I question the oil going the other way to the radiator: The Radiator is a Presurized Chamber & the Engine where the water & oil could leak together, is most commonly a Headgasket/or crack, This Area has both Preasure & Suction reversing once on each Piston Travel, Thus the Water under Preasure, leaking to any area that has both suction & preasure will be where the stranger/incorrect mix will show up. Retired Diesel Mechanic, Carl.

You are forgetting the possibility of, at cold engine conditions, there is low coolant pressure and that a crack (or a gasket leak if an oil passage crosses into the head) between an oil galley and water passage in the block can cause oil in the radiator. Another cause of oil in the radiator is a leaking transmission cooler in the radiator (automatic transmission cars). A sniff at the radiator opening might add to the diagnostics. The color of the oil might help but that's a bit iffy. And there might not be evidence if water in the oil at the same time if the leak seals itself when the temperature rises.

I'm just throwing this stuff up on the "big blackboard". Take your pick.

Are you certain that all this fuss is not just based on a punctuation error? I mean...

My Car is Burning Oil! Quicker Now!!!

It would be less mass.

Best suggestion is take it to a dealer and have them look at it. The kind of noise you describe sounds like it could become expensive. Do you check the oil level on a regular basis? (before it starts clanging) If you are letting the oil drop below the 'min' level you may have already done some serious damage.

A 2002 with 70,000 miles is not old in my opinion !!!!!! It should not be making the sounds you describe.

I have a '79 Honda Civic with around 300,000 miles on it. It has been through all kinds of $h!t and abuse (I used to use it for delivering pizza in a northern Canadian city) and still goes great guns. Cardinal rule for engine longevity; Oil change every 5,000Km (3,000 miles). My civic engine is (obviously) worn, so rather than the recommended 10W30 oil I put 10W40 in it in the summer, which reduces the oil consumption to an acceptable level. For the winter I use 10W30, as at -30^oC the 10W40 becomes a little thick and difficult to start.

If your engine is (as I suspect) worn internally, synthetic oil won't help.

"If your engine is (as I suspect) worn internally, synthetic oil won't help."

How true! In that case you might just want to just go down to your local automotive store and buy anything with the word "Miracle" on the label and pour it in any orifice you can find.

Yours was the first good answer to my mind when reading from the top of this blog.

My experiences with Synthetic (since 1991 aproximately) are all good and if used from new, engines achieve easily 400,000 kms (I have not had a car longer than this time!) without starting to use/lose oil in any major way.

Generally they need between 1/2 and one liter between servicing at 15,000 kms intervals, that is a very low oil usage. Some of my cars had service interval computer that then required oil changes at between 30,000 and 33,000 kms according to the way that I drive.......I only kept these till about between 120,000 to 150,000 kms and the oil consumption remained as it was.

In fact of all the engines since 1991, a lot of Mitsubishis and VWs plus a Nissan, the only time that oil was consumed was when new, till they were run in......otherwise way under the average for oil consumption......

I have never put Synthetic in an "old" engine, I cannot say either way what would happen, my common sense tells me that if the engine is worn and using/losing oil, that synthetic will get used/lost as well......so no real gain, but that is just my thoughts.....

A 1990 VW Passat Estate with 138,000 miles on the clock gets an oil- and filter-change every 10,000, just like it says in the original user manual, and it just doesn't use any in between. Weekly dipstick checks say so.

Are there dribbles underneath this Nissan where it parks? And are the oil seals shot? Is there smoke coming out the exhaust pipe? Are the piston rings shot? Has it been thrashed within an inch of its life on cold winter mornings or has it been treated gently until it warms up and with circumspection thereafter?

It's unlikely that a change between real oil and synthetic oil will have any significant effect unless all the other possibilities in the previous posts have been eliminated.

Wow, I'm amazed at all the replies already...I figured it would be days before 1 reply.

Well, as far as exact details I will do my best. I was told from the dealer, that I don't need to worry about letting my car warm up (supposedly better engines at the time). So, I usually do a cold start and then start driving. I do hear the noises when pushing on the gas, and around turns, more than at any other time. Like I was saying earlier though, all the noises go away once I added more oil to the engine. As far as all the diagnostic tools, I would not even know where to begin with that. I love doing everything my self, but I'm a little lacking in motor skills. I am an I.T. guy so I am definitely good with troubleshooting though. :)

Maybe it's as simple as upping the intervals between oil changes since it seems like my engine is indeed burning oil quickly, and letting my car warm up a few minutes before throttling it. But, would anyone here have a suggestion other than that? Maybe changing oil for less burn off or something else perhaps?

Thanks

"So, I usually do a cold start and then start driving."

That's fine to do that. Just keep the RPMs below 4K or so until the engine oil reaches operating temperature.

You still did not state what the oil level was before adding oil. Was it low? If you add too much it is possible to push oil into the intake and "burn" oil.

You must track your oil level and add only what is needed to bring the oil level back to the full line, no more.

Just a friendly interjection: We normally use K to be 100 and M to be 1,000.

I saw your "keep the revs below 4k" and it woke me up!

We normally use K to be 100 and M to be 1,000

Wow. I've never come across that. Where do you live, and how would you use these in context? I've thought of k as kilo pretty much the world over (with only the slight computer use adjusment to 1024 iso 1000). Here in the US, c is commonly used to mean 100, k 1000, M 1,000,000.

Modern (Less than 10 yrs old) engines and modern oils have relegated the 3000 mile oil and filter change to the slag heap of history. It's just plain wasteful to drain oil that may still have 50% or more of it's lubrication and protection ability still inherent. Especially if you're adding a fresh quart every thousand miles or so. If you have an oil CONSUMPTION problem, you need to address it via any of the fine answers already given. However, decreasing the interval between changes is not a viable option. That's just wasting perfectly good oil. As a previous poster has noted, if you are indeed burning it internally, versus dripping it on the ground, I'd suspect rings or valve guide. Most modern engines are designed to run fairly hot (220-250F), and sometimes, if you 'baby' your car around town, and never get the engine really warm enough to cook off all the combustion byproducts, carbon and other gunk can cause rings and/or valves to stick. Perhaps, but only PERHAPS, a good ol' "Italian Tuneup" might help: Drop your car into 2nd gear, find the nearest freeway on-ramp at a time of reduced traffic, and let 'er rip - mash the throttle all the way to the floor and take it up to a little over redline. If your automatic trans UPshifts to higher gear automatically (as mine does), lift off and let the engine braking bring you back down to a lower speed, and watch the car downshift back to 2nd. If you have a manual, leave it in 2nd and lift off. The high vacuum will help to blow out the carbon from your combustion chambers, freeing up the rings and/or valve seats. Let the car drift down to 50 or so mph, and then shift in to higher gear and proceed normally. You may see a little blue or black smoke from the exhaust, this merely indicates that you're doing it right. Once or twice a month, depending on driving habits, should be sufficient. You may find yourself enjoying the experience, however, indicating a more frequent application of this process... :) My '02 Northstar with 180,000 miles on it uses about 1/2 quart of 5w-30 every 1000 miles with this treatment, and still returns 22+ mpg on regular gas. Just be sure the Nissan can handle the "exercise". Not all cars can... Proceed at your own risk.

"take it up to a little over redline"

No! No! No!

I realize that manufactures build in a little safety margin when they establish a red line, but that's no reason to push your luck. With tired valve springs, loose bearing clearances, not being precisely on timing (not so much a problem on computer cars) and probably a couple other things I can't think of right now, purposely going over redline is asking for trouble. Otherwise the Italian tune-up is a good idea once in a while, but first, pour a can of Delco X66P (P=pint, Q=quart) through the carburetor, working the throttle to keep it from stalling and just as you pour the last bit in let it stall (those are the actual instructions)(with an injection system you need to hook up a hose and feed it into the throttle body). There will be EXCESSIVE smoke. (Be aware of the neighbors laundry. I usually go to an industrial park near a highway on a Saturday or Sunday.) Walk away and have a cup of coffee, relieve yourself, annoy the cat, whatever, for 15-30 minutes. Go back and start the car, it will start with only a little difficulty. Don't race the engine just yet. Take it out on the highway and have at it. You will see a black cloud behind you and may even feel a slight increase in performance / responsiveness.

I've been using this stuff since the 70's. It is still available but you may have to order it from a Delco supplier. Not many people know about it, often not even the supplier, so it is not usually stocked. It loosens the carbon build-up on the valves, around the rings (Thats the 15-30 minutes), and combustion chamber.

When the noise is apparent, where is the oil level on the dipstick? If low and refilling kills the noise, its probably the tappets as someone else mentioned before.....

Or its the pistons, expensive!

i have never heard of an engine that is worn at 70,000 miles, it should be in top condition at this time......

More frequent oil changes will only waste good oil.

Most oils even at the 'factory oil change' interval only need additives added to extend the oils life. Most automotive dealer mechanics haven't a clue, they are parts replaces and no longer have any diagnostic skills.

Oil in the rad will indicate a blown head gasket, probably not the problem in this case, I would suspect that the valve seals are on their way out, relatively simple fix, but you will need some basic automotive skills to do this.

I don't suspect rings yet, but low millage on an older car indicates commuting which is hard on engines.

Synthetic engine oil is good in cold climates because it is not as effected by temperature and the engine is lubricated correctly right at start because the oil viscosity is more constant, cold to hot.

Disclaimer; I have only been working with automotive related issues for 30 years so I may have overlooked something

A change to a synthetic oil will not stop the problem.

First you need to find out why you are losing oil if you are. Check for leaks, all so PCV valve may be bad blowing oil into engine. If it's burning the oil should be able to tell by the exhausts emissions.

You said that when you have the problem you add oil are you over filling the sump or is it low. If it's low should be checked and corrected more often. if you are over filling it may be oil pump problem.

Low oil could cause hydraulics lifters to collapse. This would cause clatter in valve push rods. Continued operation with them clattering may cause push rods to bend.

ohh yea...

I forgot to add that I have never had a drop of oil on the ground from my car. Also, when I checked the level last night it was below the "low" line so it was definitely in need of some oil. I waited about 1 hour before checking it as well, and it was on a flat surface.

Great stuff, but having said that, Zahpod, 70,000 miles is a bit early to be seeing ring or head problems to the point of needing a rebuild.

What is the history? Did you buy it used or have you always owned it? Any chance the odometer was rolled back?

I did indeed buy the car new...it had a few miles on it but nothing abnormal. What is the costs of having the pcv valve replaced? Is there any possibility that with a little research...I could possibly do it myself?

Replace the PCV valve it vents the crank case into the intake manifold. Oil maybe being getting thru.

Good point!

I did indeed buy the car new...it had a few miles on it but nothing abnormal. What is the costs of having the pcv valve replaced? Is there any possibility that with a little research...I could possibly do it myself?

Raw materials : about $10 bucks, if you get it from a dealer, at the most.

Time & Labor : about 15 minutes, max. Unless the Maxima engine it totally different from any other IC powerplant, the PCV valve should be right up top somewhere, with a rubber hose leading into it, and should either be screwed right into the top of the engine (e.g. valve cover) or very close by with another rubber hose leading to the upper block area...

Do a google image search for "Nissan PCV Valve" and you'll find about 60 pictures...

Thanks a bunch for all of your replies. This board is incredibly helpful and very timely.

Rick

There's a global resource of talent on CR4, Guest, with many hundreds of years' experience in aggregate. Please feel free to register with a username and join in - 'come on in - the water's lovely'.

When you say "right after starting" do you mean "just after starting?" If so, I don't think this is your engine. How's your power-steering pump doing?

These engines should be good for about 200,000 miles if you're promptly changing oil. By the way, the best time to switch to synthetic is during your first oil change.

It sounds like a job for your local dealer or at least call Click and Clack, the Tappet Brothers on Car Talk.

i had the same type of problem with my ex wife car I tried valvoline max life oil on the next oil change and was supprised it work quieted the lifters and stop burning oil.

Assumming there is no mechanical problem, you need to clean the engine with a Schaeffer product called Neutra. 1 oz. per quart of oil, run for 500 miles, and then change the oil.

I suggest Schaeffer #0701, 5w-30.

The consumption is probably caused by a build-up of varnish around the rings. They will leak because of the build-up. The neutra will remove most of the varnish. he new oil is a synthetic blend oil with a high detergent package that will continue to clean the engine. When the oil starts coming out almost clean at 3000 miles, you can start extending the drain interval. I get between 5000 and 8000 miles on my personal vehicles.

I had a similar problem on a 1989 Mazda pickup. The noise was more of a tapping sound though and was the hydraulic lifters as suggested in other posts. The llifters get dirty and aren't extended out enough until they're hot.

I've heard that after 20,000 miles or so is too late to change to synthetic because detergents in the synthetic will scrub old oil sludge out from other parts of the engine and distribute that sludge all over the engine. However on my old Mazda I replaced the lifters and overhauled the head and didn't see much wear after 120,000 miles with 10W-30 Trop Artic oil changed at ~3000 mile intervals all its life. I did however switch to another brand some time in there which in my own mind (not many people agree) helped me dirty up my lifters.

Yeah, don't just change an 'old' engine to sythetic. Sludge could be a problem if you do, although not as much, these days.

My experience in this problem happened many years ago when I was working in a garage. The owner of the garage was lauding the new at that time multi viscosity oils. a friend had just rebuilt an engine and was talked into using this oil. It removed all the built up oil residue and the engine began to burn oil. Boy was he mad. At 70,000 you shoul;d not be burning oil maybe yo have a leak, like a vacuum line sucking oil into the engine to be burned.

First of all you have a 2002 Nissan Maxima. That is a zero clearance engine that needs maintenance every 60000 miles. This maint. does include changing of timing belts and other odd and ends. The belt being the main concern. Have you had a maintenance update? The belt does gain much wear over time and begins to stretch. If the belt wears too much, then the pistons can eventually come in contact with the valves. If the belt gets way too far then the pistons will actually bend, break, or just smash the valves then you are pretty much shot. I would use a stethoscope as soon as possible, or get it to your nearest dealer.

As far as the oil thing goes, if you started out with conventional oil, used it for 70000 miles, there will be some build up in the engine somewhere. However there is the possibility that you have added some detergents to the engine over time during oil changes. If you haven't done that and you try to change to synthetic oil, you will find out that you have oil leaks real quickly. Synthetic to conventional is ok. Conventional to synthetic is usually a no-no, unless you intend on changing all gaskets that have touched oil.

Either way, get to a dealer and have a regular maintenance performed then check out your options from there.

First, go to "newsgroups" and type in the make and model of your car, and see if this is a common characteristic or problem with this make and model vehicle.

Then I would contact a local Nissan dealer and ask to speak with a mechanic.

You may need to get the tappets adjusted.

You may also have some type of contamination and need to have the motor flushed during the next oil change.

If the noise increases during steering lock, monitor the tachometer reading before and after you turn the wheel enough to produce the noise. This may indicate a low level of power steeting fluid, or perhaps when you bottom out the travel, it puts a load on the engine.

What sort of climate do you live in? If it gets very cold, (or you have diluted anti-freeze) it is possible that the engine block has a fine crack in it, and that oil is leaking into the water jacket...might want to look for signs of oil in the water/coolant solution.

Nissans will run forever with few problems, but if all else fails, I suggest trading it off for a Toyota.

Lets see.....noise, right after start, when engine is cold when moving steering wheel.......ummm I'd probably check my Power Steering reservoir.

The car may be suffering from short trips, causing water in the oil (condensation from burning the fuel) and some of the emulsion (oil mixed with water) is sludging and preventing proper lubrication of vital parts.

I would take a good detergent oil, go for a long hot run and drain the oil while still hot, replace it with good oil and a new filter and see if the problems are fixed.....

To test for water in the oil, take a sample and put it in a test tube, heat it up to over 100°C and if it pops or crackles. you have water in there......

You can test brake fluid the same way, if it pops or crackles, you need to replace ALL of the brake fluid!!!

It sounds a bit like you are making French Fries!!! But does not smell as good!!

"Dave?"

"yes HAL."

"I'm burning oil quicker now."

"Don't worry about it, HAL."

OK, Dave... Daisey, dasiey,..."

Haven't read the others but...why do you say "burnin' oil quicker"? First I note that the car is low mileage, so it should not be encountering major problems unless it has severe abuse history. So I deduce--correct me if I'm wrong--that you might be guessing when trying to describe having to replenish oil lever more frequently. The part about your perception of increased noise as oil change time approaches could be another bit if guesswork as well. For example, your oil changes might correspond to prevailing temperatures during certain seasons when you typically get around to changing oil. Increased cold engine noise after cold startup is not necessarily a serious problem or oil related. It could simply be an exacerbation of another problem since pumping steering fluid--especially with standing vehicle--places additional load on the engine. My sense is that some of your symptoms could be related to engine ignition and fuel mixture control that is falling out of spec for some reason--and that could also be related to excessive oil loss. But, before going into greater detail it would be best for you to add some precision to your problem description. Otherwise we're all basically just taking wild guesses.

Let me suggest some information which might help.

What is your general location and when was the vehicle last tested for vehicle emissions compliance, if ever?

Are you seeing blue exhaust which seems to be increasing noticeably in volume...and at all operating temperature ranges?

Have you checked over, under and behind the engine for oil leakage and oil blow back towards the tranny? IOW, is the engine bottom really messy with oil?

Does adding oil alleviate the noise in the parking lot outside the store...after the engine is warmed by the drive to the store? How about the next morning after the engine is cold? Is the noise still gone at cold start-up?

If you've had smog testing, what were the results? Did you get high nitrogen oxides?

The intermittent clanging sound...is this happening at idle or with the engine under load while driving? What makes you say the sounds are "intermittant"? This suggests the sounds just come and go as you drive around. Do hills and acceleration and things of that nature seem to affect the "intermittancy"?

So please try again to describe the symptoms more clearly.

Finally, if you'd like to find out what's the problems with the view to making expedient repairs, it might not be a bad idea to have a thorough emissions evaluation by a shop that also does emission system repairs. I'm betting that the problems you are seeing are such that an emissions test failure will occur... and this will lead to a diagnosis of what all is "out of alignment" which is probably a part of the problems you're seeing...including, possibly, even the oil loss problem.

What your most likely hearing on start up now are lifters trying to pump up with oil.

70k miles is about 10k more miles than the Valve Seals are make to handel. While they have improved many auto parts that is one area that has remained the same. Valve Seals around the intake and espically the exhaust Valve will be worn out and leaking oil into the combustion chamber. Around 60k to 68k is average life of valve seals. Less if the car is driven hard and not warmed up.

There are tools to replace the Valve seals without pulling the heads. I have done it on many vechiles I own. One thing to be aware of is if you run these small cars hard the rings wear down quick and they will suck bits of oil up from the crankcase (OILPAN) and burn it. Does your exhaust have a blue or black tint to it. Black means your not burning all the fuel and blue means your buring some oil.

If you are pulling oil from the crankcase chances are that your piston rings are frozen to the piston with carbon buildup from burning the oil and are not functioning as designed.

Turning the steering wheel puts a little pressue on the engine that is not yet warmed up and the lifters that are worn have not yet swelled from the heat and are still losing oil pressure.

70k miles on one car is not the same as 70k miles on another. It all depends on the warmup, rmps, maintance, and time driven at high rpm's. It is all realative would be the be way to explain it.

If you go to my thread, I think I can help you out.