interpersonal skills-very important?

I sympathise. You will be fine, beacause the first step is you have recognised your weakness, it easy to improve it.
Most of us are shy with people we don't know, some sales guys have an easy manner and can remember everyones name and make it look easy... one guy told me that he really had to work at it.

A girl in sales where I last worked came to talk to me she said 'I always come down to talk to you 'cos your telephone manner is attrocius' Ah...there's the key...I now work on it...some times I'll make a great play of apologising for my bad phone manner before I even start a phone conversation...this can win people over, or I'll try and be chatty and informal when I really want to say 'Jeez get to the point!'

Us engineers have a reputation for being nerdy and socially inept, so don't worry peoples expectations will be low...try to make that extra little effort (not all the time ..go push too hard) learn a lesson from that girl I worked with and work to peoples strengths...go and see them if you prefer a face to face encounter, or use the phone or E-mail if you are happier....

The conversation I had about my phone manner was a win-win, it improved my phone manner and after that I would always go into the sales office and talk to the sales girls personally, it was much more friendly...and after a while I even worked out the ones I could have a little flirt with .

Above all remember everyone is nervous and shy really...some just hide it better than others.
Very best wishes in all your endeavours.

Del

PS. Sorry there are a few typos in that reply..I was stying to edit and hit submit instead
At one point I meant to say, 'make that extra little effort..but you don't need to push yourself too hard or wory about it'.

Simple things like saying 'good morning' to everyone as you come in...some do it, some don't. It's not too hard to at least smile or nod or and the little things are all a start.... even practice chatting to the girl/guy on the supermarket checkout...

Hope I havn't rambled on too much.

Good luck

Del

Umm was she cute. Maybe you don't want to improve your telephone communications, if they come down to visit you in person.

Engineers are notorious for poor interpersonal skills...

You just need to be personal enough to get a job!

I think engineers without too many interpersonal skills are great! You just described half my customer base. Yeah, that's right, I'm one of those annoying sales people for whom it comes easy. However, I truly respect and enjoy my engineering clients and in some ways especially those who are a little socially challenged. I respect the ones who have intelligence, diligence and drive to pursue a goal. (heck, I married one)

From what I see daily, if you can communicate effectively with your boss, co-workers and required others, you are ok (that includes using email!). That is assuming your engineering skills are top notch. It's performance that counts.

Go for it! Engineers are great people, are an asset to our world and hey, you might even find a kindred spirit!

Don't worry about the social skills. Your post was more than adequate. Worry more about the math and Physics and what ever it takes to become a good Engineer. An Engineer is in a position to make or break a company and is sometimes in frightening circumstances when unexpected things happen. Remember also that Engineering is not a job...it is a way of life...Clint

In any technical field one eventually gets to the point where they have to communicate wih others, often they have to translate a technical issue into something that a manager or an accountant can understand.

I was in IT and we often found that interpersonal skills were just as important as technical ability. Many are the cases where an excellent technical person was rewarded by promoting him or her into management. IT generally turned out to be a disaster, they got a bad manager and lost a good techie. The bad manager often drove the remaining technical staff away.

When I made carreer day presentations to the local high school I would reccomend that the students join the drama club where they could associate with people and develop their presentation skills.

People skills can be learned if you want to learn them. The last thing that any organization needs is an introverted nerd or worse an aggressive one.

Thoughts from Grandpa's knee

Hi Curious, One thing worse than an introverted nerd or an aggressive one is an incompetent one. The man has demonstrated an awareness and competence in communication that should not be underestimated. An engineer faces many challenges that can only be overcome with knowledge...this is where he needs to concentrate his effort...Clintb32

Don't ignore the value of interpersonal skills however. Engineers do need to interact with others - to get and share information. Strong presentation skills can greatly contribute to a successful engineering career.

If these are things you need to work on, be assured that they can be improved. Put some effort into improving these skills.

Best Wishes,

MRDPE

TheProfessionalEngineer.com

I totally agree with you on this one. Just remember that everybody just hates those socially inept and dysfunctional people. Some posts even point out that they felt the need to change, now that is opposing their own initial statement.

You will have to work with other people around you and the best asset you can have is a good interpersonal skill. The rest is your knowledge and academic skills, which are very important, but with your personal skills you can open doors. After the open door your knowledge will allow you to do your job well.

Don't confuse shy with gruff, they are totally different aspects of somebodies personality. You can have difficulty communicating but you don't have to make it rough on the others.

Further to the job situation, you need to come to understand that in this life you will have ups and downs. You may think you can hack it when the world around you all looks rosie and sunshine but what if things get rough for you? You need friends then and being socially deprived from years of "going it alone" leaves you truly on your own. Even in your workplace you need friends sometimes.

I don't believe that cats can change their stripes.

This is true to a point.. you can't change who you basically are...but you can learn to say good morning to your co-workers and smile even tho' it feels hard that first day.

At my last job I was in an office well away from the factory at first, then they moved my lab/office and I had to walk through the factory, past an all female assembly line.
I was 'anther prat in a suit', but I made the effort to smile and say 'good morning ladies'.
Later when I needed to test a respiratory measuring instrument on a population, I was able to go out and get the 'ladies' to blow into my machine...with a few ribald comments of course .

It may not matter that much in the long run. Look at the 2 most successful men in the US, Bill Gates and Warren Buffet. Gates is the ultimate nerd who bulldozed his way to the top in spite of vast hatred and opposition from practically the whole IT industry. Buffet is the ultimate communicator who everybody loves. The 2 men are also good friends. I think the message may be - do it your way and at least one person will be happy - you.

Both of whom are entrepeneurs at the top of their specific local food chain, not "organization men"

Del, what's a prat?

Is it half a pratfall?

milo

Seems to be I am the only at this thread for whom English is not native. Nevertheless if you're interesting point of view of person from another side of glass:

1. Language for engineer consists --- charts, design drafts, formulas etc;

2. Engineer's children are --- one's creations (devices and technologies);

3. Delicious meal for engineer is --- any innovative disruptive idea(s) deserved to be developed for humankind prosperity.

4. Drug piles for engineer --- permanent process of doubt about "perfect" design decision (I see you have this talent for self curing, but do not be so fascinated with endless doubts).

If you will get gradually skill to communicate with people it brings you optional bonus. If won't. Nothing daunted (see above 1,2,3,4. it's enough).

Your welcome.

For most engineers, talking with people is "learn by doing" just as much a practical engineering, itself. So, plunge right in, you will almost certainly find yourself among familiar company.

Math and physics themselves are more oriented (concentrated) on advanced calculations--as in academe. But the social skill thing, and how to overcome, will not really be different there. In both realms, folks come to admire (even) the socially inept--if s/he really knows her/his stuff. In fact it is often an asset among peers. In the collegiate world, however, it can put students at a disadvantage.

I meant, an instructor's lack of talking skill can be a severe disservice to his students.

Hello Guest,

Gone are the days of the mad eccentric inventor type of Engineer, who could not relate to others.

As an Engineer you are going to have to relate well to all sorts of people.

Get some practice in, as you are in a position to improve your skills.

Kind Regards....

Shy with people but good at maths etc. Sounds like the definition of a young engineer. (Shy, but not much good at maths = Accountant).

Don't worry, you get better as you grow older. I've noticed many engineers develop a set of skills (like telling jokes) to help in social situations, others find a partner with social graces (like me). ffeJ

By definition, engineering is applied science. It can't be applied by a solitary worker.

While there's no need to be the life of the party, communications and persuasive skills are inevitably needed to make technical work useful.

Most engineers are hired for thier technical skills and fired for their intepersonal skills--or lack of conformance to norms within the prevailing management.

Interpersonal skills, like everything else can be learned.

or lack of conformance to norms within the prevailing management.

WOW YOU GOT THAT RIGHT!!!!!
Generally that meants unacceptable behaviour like 'telling the truth'

Del

Most people in a technical field have that same problem. They all do well in their jobs so go for it. As far as socializing I find that most people can't handle the straight truth they have to have some honey put on it with a little BS. Some people seem to be born full of BS they make good salesmen. Others of us have to learn to do it. If and when you need to there are training courses available. That usually happen when an engineer is placed in a managerial position. Comes with hip waders to get around the politics of the position.

I agree with the others, you will need to delvelop some sort of interpersonal skills in engineering, if for no other reason then to have a succesfull job interview, or to ask for funding. As an engineer, people are going to constantly come to you with problems they need you to fix.

On the other hand, you could probably get away with fewer interpersonal skills if you got into Astronomy...not alot of people awake in the middle of the night.

Avery Montembeault

More and more companies are expecting to use engineers in the field on the front lines, especially as more engineering talent becomes available due to job atrition in some areas of the world. I have been doing applications engineering for many years and love it. Visiting different customers, talking over solutions on the phone, all of this adds tremendously to one's skill base in communications, not to mention blogs and e-mails.

I will say that if you want to be great at talking with people, you will be and vice-versa. Ultimately, do what makes you happy and pays you a lot of money.

Hello "Guest". (Why don't you introduce yourself (register) so we can address you by name?) With the characteristics you describe, I think you are typical of many engineers. I was (am) similarly disposed. After 35 years on the job I have learned that people who are skilled at working with THINGS are not held in nearly as high regard by management as people who are skilled at working with PEOPLE. You may be brilliant at solving technical problems, but the most highly compensated individuals in your organization will be those who are able to manage other people. Sometimes it just doesn't seem fair- when a supervisor or manager makes 50 to 100% more money managing people whose work he or she is unable to comprehend. But that's the real world. There is nothing to do but accept it and derive our satisfaction from seeing our own accomplishments, whether or not they are recognized and rewarded. (Whew! Now I feel better!)

Bill Morrow

MOst of the engineers I have met have the personality of a door mat so it really shouldn't matter.

In fact if you can be an asshole or have a chip on your shoulder daily you will be successful

OK , before salesmen are completely maligned, strung up and thrown out as useless; (resist the temptation!!!)

Salesmen are around for a reason, just like engineers. Lately, the trend in my industry is to have salesmen who ARE engineers. This works well for almost everyone; the salesman-engineer can speak cogently with clients, and the technical interface back to other areas of the company are handled efficiently and with maximum accuracy. In today's marketplace, it is key since the valued supplier is often the one who has a "value add" proposition such as improved efficiency for a client within their manufacturing/process in addition to the product sold them. This requires understanding the client's product & production, but most importantly, what is driving the client's business plan and market. Surviving companies meet the CLIENTS needs and perspective.

Great ideas are useless if no one will listen.

As to why the salesman makes a lot of money? - Like it or not, from an accounting perspective, they are the only ones within any company who are on the plus side of the balance sheet - they bring in cash. Everyone else is on the minus side, they are an expense (and I do mean everyone, CEO on down). Love 'em or hate 'em, salesmen make the company run by providing cash. Lots also work on a commission basis - they ONLY make money when they bring in profitable business and they take direct hits for unprofitable jobs and deadbeat clients.

So it occurs to me that engineers learning interpersonal skills may be a bonus for technical sales recruiters and help to keep the BS slingers out of the technical sales.

By the way, this is totally NOT in reply to Guest, for whom it sounds like this may not be the best path.

You are correct! Salesman are like waiters/waitress at a restaurant. They are "out there" in the public's face, presenting their cause! You wont deal with a company because of a poor salesman, just like a poor waitress. Engineers do not make good salesman. They like to "get to the point" quickly. Salesman like to BS. James

In most professional service businesses, the sales/marketing people do not show any profit since they do not book any billable hours against contracts. Their time is all overhead for these companies, even in multi-national corporations. They are paid salaries and receive expense accounts to wine and dine. Because they do not have direct roles in proposal, project budget, schedules and work scope development, it would be hard to make a fair determination of a percentage of the project budget to reward them (plus proposal managers and project managers would have a fit since they do most of the work in winning projects). In general this is why when there are those recurrent management turn-overs, one of the new management group will typically cut overhead to improve profits by cutting the sales and support staff. This works when they have existing long term contracts and a lot of available work. They then have the engineers pick up the slack by marketing clients on their own time for as long as they are willing. This will usually buy that management group a few years in office, untill the long term contracts start coming to completion and new clients are not being developed anymore, as the engineers are worn out from working for free around their paid billable work. Profits are increased by reducing the overhead multiplier. When the available work is down, well you just cut back on everyone who do not present to management as profitable or worth retaining (protecting) until the market comes back around, until the work load is consistent with staffing. In this case, in some industries, engineers are a hard commodity to come by and will be protected longer before being laid off (Civil is a good example, huge shotage of civils

These people are usually there to meet and greet, keep tabs on potential future prospect, and aid in developing proposals by making them more attractive to the non-technical people who may have some role in assisting in the proposal evaluations (pretty pictures on the cover page). Many times I have found that many of these marketing hires are actually the mgmt of former clients who were friendly to the company, friends or family-members of decision-makers in client organizations, or friends or family-members (particularly female) of senior mgmt in the company. Their wages are commensurate with how friendly or important their associations were to the company, not so much what they bring to the company themselves in the future (at least for a few years). so many times their relevant technical skills are not polished enough to win specific projects or even really discuss them, but rather they keep clients from feeling forgotten when the engineers are too business to make the rounds.

Wow - you seem to have had some tough experiences.

I would have to disagree with a few points:

· Sales/marketing are not the same thing. Sales is a net contribution, marketing is not.

· Sales (in my experience) are responsible for bringing in new business, with a specific profit and that meets client needs and expectations.

· In my experience, salesmen are also responsible for reviewing all quotes to ensure they are profitable and that - important point - no money is left on the table. They also are expected to understand the work / goods quoted, have reviewed them as part of a cross functional team, and be certain that there is no liability being incurred which the company is not aware of. Engineering is a central part of that team in a well organized company.

Companies who slash and burn people (gut to show profit) in my experience have a few common traits:

· they are publicly held, about to be sold or IPO

· They have no long term strategy & long term management

· The don't manage their growth appropriately – success can also be knowing which jobs to pass on

· they have lost their market position (why the company fits into a market and can make money)

Work in the private sector, for a company with an excellent long term plan and a stable management team and you should find a different experience. (my reccomendation is an EU firm who plans on a longer timeline)

I would say not so much gutting as trimming. It is true that the tactics of trimming the fat in engineering companies is more common amongst large publicly-held companies. Mostly this occurs more often in such companies because there are more frequent major management shifts that change management strategies. Increase profits to the shareholder above all else, and this quarter first then worry about the next quarter later, is pretty common. I have seen some scheme that obviously only promote the appearance of profitable quarters immediately, such that someone in the company is going to have to pay much more later. The managers usually plan to be promoted out transferred or fired before these manipulations catch up to them, let the next guy handle the fall-out. Showing increased profits on the quarterly and end of year statements takes precedent above all else.

However, I have seen these management shift occur, less frequently, in privately held companies also. Those own by the workers are likely to change management on the basis of trying to squeeze a little more profit out for the dividends at the end of the year. One such company I used to work for about 10 years ago has been through 3 CEOs, three presidents and numerous division managers for the three engineering divisions. One time they voted the former owner of the company out and a bunch of management, and the last time they promoted from within, firing the long time CEO and Office manager for their largest office, transferring the title for CEO to a relatively new President getting rid of the CEO title. I work for a privately held design company owned by the principal engineers, and above, and have found them to be really stable in policy and practice. I believe the problems arise when the lower level investors carry weight in decision-making, since all you need to do is promise higher profits quickly (even if the plan doesn't make long-term sense) to promote to management.

In the end, all the management shift also cause vast changes in marketing and support. Such that you see frequent billing/human resources/clerical/marketing staff turn over, transfers or relocations, and changes in policy regarding staff utilization (sometimes you are required to use such, other you must seek out the lowest cost support whtehr internal or external).

You don't need to be great at social chit-chat, but in my experience you must be able to communicate. In our company, our CTO says that 90% of the errors that occur are not engineering errors, but communication errors! I think written communication is even more important than spoken communication: people can refer back to exactly what you wrote rather than trying to remember what they think you said.

Being polite and professional is a huge plus. Again, you don't have to be the most amusing chap at the water cooler, but if you treat people with courtesy and respect they are much more likely to listen to your ideas and help you with them.

Guest - you may just want to read Scott Adams' The Dilbert Principle - especially chapter 14.

MRDPE

http://theprofessionalengineer.com/book-reviews/the-dilbert-principle/

Morton-Thiokol anyone? A gigantic example of poor communication impacting people's lives (Challenger) - it was a case study in an ethics class for me in college.

Edward Tufte's books have been recommended to me on representing complicated information in the best way - I have yet to buy them but they are high on my to-purchase list.

One of the best classes I have EVER taken was one on Risk Communication - it applies to all cases of humans in high-stress situations, helping you understand how a human being processes communication when under stress and how best to communicate with them. I use many tools I learned in this class and find it personally fascinating.

I would also highly recommend a public speaking class. Excruciatingly painful (for me) but very beneficial. At one point or another you will be briefing somebody on something and a class like this will help prepare you for the experience. Though I am honestly more comfortable speaking about my area of technical expertise than the personal stuff in the class - but it gave me many valuable tools.

Yes, engineers are not known for their social or communication skills. Neither are they known for their spelling or grammar. But, we cannot do our jobs if we cannot communicate. Period. An engineer who learns how communicate with his managers in ways they can understand, interact with his peers to get information he needs and networks to gain resources and contacts is one that will do his job well. Being personable will get you very far - you will more often get jobs over a socially retarded but insanely smart engineer. I find those types of personalities are best suited to "bubble" environments such as research labs (as an example), and they are often left there.

That being said, I found your original blurb was well written and personable. You indicate you have poor social skills, but you came across very well in your writing. I would definitely encourage you to pursue engineering (with regards to the social skills concern). Be aware of your shortcomings and work on them, and you will already be ahead of many of your peers. Most engineers start out rough, it simply takes time.

I would suggest that you might want some definition regarding the nature of the communications skills that you are qualifying. Depending on you postion as an engineer, the skills necessary are slightly different. When you function as a professional engineer, you must communicate in a manner that is always wary of yours and your clients potential liabilities. Contractors, some clients, real estate developer and some distributors will be amenable and understand the information you communicate, but may prefer to always communicate in a spur of the moment manner and only verbally (unless you indicate a change order and additional reimbursements forthcoming). Much of communications skills you need to utilize are not the same as those communication skills utilized in a social setting. You need to develop communications skills that incorporate more of those skills utilized by legal professionals, rather than those used by the general public.

I believe that more often than not that many people place more focus on the inadequacy of engineers communication skills after an incident comes to the forefront that may place liability on those people, in essence they always try to claim they did not understand the engineer when they see a lawsuit or personal consequence on the horizon. The engineers make for good fall-guys for less educated people to redirect blame towards. This is a general social trend that has gain some legal support in the idea that ignorance can be an excuse, and with knowledge comes liability for the actions of the less knowledgeable. This is also one method used by politicians to deflect blame, the other is to claim they did not know. These people can claim they did not understand the technical/legal discourse, or they weren't informed (documentation easily covers the informed excuse, but whether they comprehended is a gray area).

So you need to be clear, concise, direct, record and document everything, offer no friendly advise, make suggestions verbally not recommendations, inform of observations and potential consequences without directing any work, copy all (the more the better) relevant people on documents as soon as possible after a discussion occurs, always be wary about loop-holes people may be trying to open in contracts by obtaining statements that do not close such loop-holes, always be aware that the language people use in common conversation can have a different legal interpretation in a court (inspection is a term that can carry a lot of unintended liability, and contractors frequently like to try and get engineers to agree to the language that they will conduct inspections), and in general be aware that anything you say can be taken out of contxt and have unintend consequences that requires you to utilize much more forethought in your communications than would be typical of a normal conversation (outside of work environment). So, a lack of public communications skills could mean that you just are a friendly or humorous communicator, while still being an having excellent engineering communication skills.

To Guest discussion starter:

Here's a good answer, actually two, that I haven't seen mentioned yet.

One way to describe the uniqueness of comm aptitude among most engineers derives from established facts regarding brain hemisphere dominance. People who excel in engineering fields are also those who are more likely than not to be strongly left-brain dominant. By contrast, graphic artists (including those working at engineering concerns) are more likely to be right brain dominant--and be affected with communication impediments of their own. If the discussion starter believes himself to be gifted with engineering potential he might find that he, too, is left-brain dominant; and thus is likely not to stand out (in an uncomfortable way) among engineering peers. There are simple tests (I hadn't time to search...) to determine one's own brain hemisphere dominance; and self assessment in this way could be one way to help with the career choice decision.

Another aspect to consider when looking forward to engineering employment prospects pertains to employer org size. Generally, a good "social" matching is likely to be more difficult to come by if considering smaller orgs--but can be more fulfilling/satisfying if/when a good match is found (especially where there is not much turn-over). Large, complex organizations, on the other hand, are more likely to accommodate a great diversity of social and intercommunication skill sets.

One way to see this for yourself might be to attend "technical" job fairs--you don't have to be actually looking for placement--and you can simply say you are exploring career possibilities. At such events you are likely to see, and be able to "test" for yourself, organizations of all sizes; and see how their employees interact and communicate among themselves, and with you--and you with them. I could give anecdotes from such experiences about certain large and small aerospace firms, but I won't.

http://appl003.lsu.edu/cas/learningjourney.nsf/CheckProgress?OpenForm

here is one such test for brain hemisphere; also included are other tests for career predisposition. There are numerous others of the Web.

CA

There is a saying amongst radio 'hams': "Never send Morse faster than the other end can receive". Basically, if faced with a difficult comms problem, change down a cog or two, so that the sender and receiver are going the same speed, and things will be just fine.

More and more these days one is faced with an international communication situation in Engineering, such as (from recent experience):

• Discussion with a German non-engineer armed with mathematics and science learned at school, about the underlying principles of how a microwave oven works.
• How would one commission a high-speed turbo-blower on a waste water plant, when the two parties have no common language, and in any case cannot hear each other due to the background noise levels?
• Discussion with French Engineers: French Engineers speaking French and UK Engineers speaking English. All parties understood each other and enjoyed the experience!
• Russian Engineer using English to speak to South Korean Technicians, and vice-versa. It makes one feel small to even witness these things, if one only has tram-tickets in the respective language suits (Bridge card game terms).

Engineers tend to use pictures to illustrate a concept.

• One individual was great at drawing with his hands, while he was speaking. It leaves a lasting impression.
• Sketch while talking - the meaning will come through from the pictures on the wall. Just like the heiroglyphs of cave dwellers and pyramid-builders.

As others have said higher up, to acknowledge a weakness is the first step towards overcoming it. Many companies of any substance will have training opportunities available to help fill in the blanks, as it were. And what good boss wouldn't respond to a subordinate's request for help?

Beware. The world is full of people. Lots of them! No two are exactly the same.

But, never but never sketch your speech to a superior (boss) unless...unless you ask and receive consent—you are extending the opportunity for the offer to be declined, actually; or unless the superior suggests it (directly or by sketching first). Such precautions will in some instances/situations also apply to peer interactions. Why such politics, you ask?

Because it could be difficult to impossible to know in advance that sketching your words will not be taken as being "spoken down to" by others. With some it might be as if being told (without being asked): "I'll draw you a picture so you can understand." With others, it could be seen as an inadequacy on your part: You can't express yourself; You need a picture yourself to "think it through" what you are trying to say.

That said, one way that the sketch approach can usually be used effectively is not dissimilar to memorandizing. This would be were you make a sketch illustrating a singular point (be careful about trying to illustrate too much) and then leave it with another to look over (if s/he desires and at her/his own leisure), along with a stated request/offer to follow up later. This approach permits the sketch recipient to: (1) avoid being place on the spot; and (2) pick up and view the sketch (privately as it were) as if it was "neutral property" of the picker-upper and not something immediately associated with yourself. IOW, giving a sketch (as opposed to making a sketch while explaining a sketch) renders you once removed.... which is more likely to avert any misapprehensions which could backfire.

You will probably find that specific "opportunities" are set apart for audio-visual "presentations." Presentations in which Q & A can be invited and take place, but also in which there is freedom not to ask questions; freedom to take time to think and follow up with questions later on if need be. These are also good times to have good sketches ready to present.

None of this is meant to say that sketching is never appropriate...but it is wise to be mindful of the degree of trust and conviviality between you and anyone for whom you feel a need to "draw a picture."