Magnetic motor

What would you use as a power source for this motor? And, how will you get the magnets apart once you move them together? A sketch or better description would be a big help.

Also, what is the end result of this?

You use repulsion, not attraction.

check out Perendev magnet motor on YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFGiWiXMHn0

Don't make me get out my Guys and Dolls quote.

If you have a prototype, could you get it on youtube so that we can fully understand where you are coming from?

I have been doing a lot of research on magnetic rotary motors and have found a lot of information. I am also currentlybuilding a magnetic motor. I also have a contact in China where you can get magnets very cheap if you are interested. Check out these links below:

http://www.panaceauniversity.org/

http://www.perendev-power.com/emot100.htm

On the contrary, I have some most promising test results. The misunderstood science you reffer to is defintely old school. i chosse not to remain in old school physics. All options are worth investigating. I never though it was possible to make a magnet with a like pole on each end until I did it 5 days ago.

Guest,

If you have made a monopole magnet, you should register. You are certainly gonna receive the Nobel prize for physics and we want to be able to say we knew you back when.

I wouldn't call it a monopole as there is an opposing feild in the center with a opposite on each end. Very simple to do. The properties in the center are kind of cool also. It's not a Halbach array either.

It's more like North-South-North. Have you ever seen this configuration before? It is new to me.

N-S S-N is the magnet arrangement www.nipponpulse.com uses for their linear shaft motor.

Thanks for the link. I will certainly check it out. I accidentally dropped a spade bit on my table too close to my magnets and two of them jumped over and one attached to the bit on each side. These are quite powerful 1/4" x 1" cylinders. I picked up another magnet and held it to each one and realized that similar poles overcame their repulsion to attract to a piece of steel. I later cut off a small piece of steel 1/4"rod and is covered that even though my magnets were very powerful you could push them together and suddenly you can reach a point where the attraction to the small piece of steel is greater that the mutual repulsion. I am surprised how small of a piece is required. Less than a quarter of an inch. The end result is a magnet with like poles on each end.

The NPP arrangement does not have iron separators, the magnets are held in a tube using glue. I believe this is part of their patent for a linear motor.

You should be more open to us, young inventadores. I already know how to make two unipolar magnets out of a bipolar one. I am just waiting for Mr. Mgambey, Vice President of the First National Bank in South Africa, to transfer in my account $27.5 million. After that I will have the possibility to buy a 0.001 mill beam laser with which I am going to cut, exactly in half, the bipolar magnet, and voila, you have two unipolar magnets, now, a S and a N. Columbus egg!

There have been patents issued for magnet motors. Howard Johnson:

http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/Howard_Johnson_Motor/

And another patent was issued to Wang Shum Ho and others.

Tom Bearden points out the JP Morgan and Lorentz modified Maxwells equations to that everyone would be brainwashed with symmetry theory. It becomes very difficult to continue propagating the lie that there is no free energy when patents have been issued and many people are successfully replicating free energy devices all over the world.

Most reasonably intelligent people can solve the magnet motor problem if they would simply try. Most don't try becasue they don't have any faith in the idea becasue of the lies. Some who have tried and suceeded at free energy were threatened in the name of "national security", or just bribed into silence. There is a revolution underway and the lies are being blown out of the water. We will soon have free energy and (debt) free money. The cabal of which David Rockefeller speaks in his autobiography is going to be crushed.

I think you are on the wrong forum. Have you tried keelynet?

www.keelynet.com

Apparently "working" free energy generators have been available for many years (I have assessed many of them over the years). All I can say is, ROFLOL.

Feel free to buy or build your own from the countless plans on the internet and throw off the shackles of the oil industry. Seriously, what are you waiting for, they are not even that expensive.

Oh, one more point, you can patent a device or idea that doesn't actually work. Having a patent is not the same as having a device that actually works.

You are correct my freind. Check out "Energy from the Vacuum" part Two. Anyone who has not seen this DVD has their head in a very dark place. John Bedini is nothing less than amazing. Highly reccomended

If you do a little more research you'll find that Mike Brady and his company are facing charges for non-delivery.

Vulcan, you are probably right. I can see why he has a lawyer in south Africa on his team. By no means am I saying his stuff is legit either. His claims are something else. I suppose the legal system will take time to catch up with him. I can't imagine who would give him 19,000 Euro for a 5 year lease.That is realy quite brazen. It would be cheaper to pay your power bill. Never-the-less I investigate everything I run across but it doesn't mean I believe it. I like to have hands on and I don't expect anyone else to be any different. There is one thing that bothered about the Perendev clip below is you would think the camera man would have done a walk around on start up to prove the unit was not being accelerated with the use of another motor. That is what I would have done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFGiWiXMHn0

you would think the camera man would have done a walk around on start up

Indeed. The thing that makes me suspicious is that he made this video a long time ago. He promised that he would make another one that would prove to anyone that the motor does indeed work. Years later, that new video still hasn't come. Makes you doubt whether the thing really works, right?

I have my doubts about magnet motors but am willing to believe if the guy can give real proof of what he's done. A poorly done video will not do it.

Very well put Vulcan, I rate your post as good. Today, nothing is simpler than to produce a video.....and place it on YouTube.

Does this qualify as a magnet motor or what. I thought this was not supposed to be possible. Thank God for people who think outside the box. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpQA5c9guvE&feature=related

How Mylow replicated Howard Johnson Magnet Motor " The Working Model"

Apparently he has already been approached and threatened and the bullet hole in his living room wall is apparently very real!!!!! I mean seriuosly does anyone really think this was faked!!! I beleive everyone can either take this for what it is or go back to sticking their heads in the sand while the non-brain-washed people can take this forward.

I do. I believe it's fake, no matter which video you throw at me. You cannot create movement without a source of available energy, and if this energy is available to the contraption shown in the video, then the video is fake if it's creator asks you to believe that the plate is turning without any source of energy - no two ways about it, and no way around it.

Believe me, it's easier to fool the audience doing it behind a camera, and later spreading rumors as if the poor fella is hunted down bu the CIA, NSA, MIB or whatever, than to convince some serious, informed investors who could turn everybody involved, into a world sensation overnight - or as I call it "The Bill Gates Test".

"You cannot create movement without a source of available energy,"

Does the law of conservation of energy have to be violated in order to introduce acceleration through magnetic interaction?

As I release the needle lock on a magnetic compass and the needle starts to accelerate towards the magnetic equilibrium position, how is energy conserved?

Gavilan

The needle merely repositions itself to achieve an equilibrium of opposing electromagnetic forces it was held against (it's own field, embedded in the atomic level, relative to the earth's), when it was locked.

Every movable object will naturally lean into it's least energetic state, in accordance to the second law of TD. This is truly universal and applies to all scales of size, from the subatomic to the macro, to the celestial to the galactic.

The potential energy applied in this case, was the magnetic field of potential alignment, in relation to the arbitrary position of the locked needle.

That lock being out of the way, allowed the potential energy to come into action, by releasing the needle into proper magnetic alignment.

You stored the potential energy by locking the needle, and re-orienting it, apart from the earth magnetic lines. Should you lock it and not re-orient it, it wouldn't move when you'd release the lock - just like cocking a spring...

You could argue just about the same about a cocked and locked spring. Once the lock was out of the way, the potential energy in the cocked spring came into action by releasing the spring.

Nothing less, nothing more.

Thank you for your informative reply. I now understand that the energy was stored as the locked needle was rotated and then released when the needle was unlocked.

In the next example a strong magnet is suspended above a flat level table. A ferromagnetic marble is then allowed to roll very slowly beneath the magnet. As the marble comes under the magnetic, it is lifted through a gravitational potential of mgh. The original linear kinetic energy of the marble .5mvv was much less than than the change in gravitational potential due to its very low v as it moved across the table.

Since there has been an increase in gravitational potential that exceeds the kinetic potential, where did that energy come from? Since the marble is now stopped; is the total work performed equal to the change in KE + mgΔh?

I am not attempting to support over unity schemes; I just want to understand the conservation of energy as applied to this case.

Gavilan

I couldn't exactly visualise your description, and maybe you could picture it a bit clearer, but for what I could, I would call your described system an 'unstable equilibrium of opposing potentials', - a bit like a spinning gyro to resist downward gravity, which got to loose momentum of the spin, thus letting downward gravity take over.

In extreme generality you may say that, the concept called 'conservation of energy', (and in fact, any conservation law) applies not only to localised, so-called "closed" systems - which is a non-real abstract - no system is really closed - it imports potential energy, exhaust it, and exports what it couldn't use), but mainly to the universe as a whole.

The energetic content of the universe is a constant (the first TD law). Localised potential energy, is a shifting variable passing from one system to another, decreasing the entropy in one system (where that energy is invested) while increasing the entropy of the rest of the universe - this is according to the second TD law).

That summation is on a global, universal scale, as no localised system is really closed.

Heck, we don't even know if the whole universe is a closed thermodynamic system, although we may consider it as such, according to the first law.

In any case where you might consider a localised phenomenon which seem to 'borrow' it's apparent energy from an un seemingly source, it in fact takes it from the rest of the universe. If it seems a bit of a bullshit kind of cop-out, consider this:

Earth level of order is extreme, in that the apparent complexity of biochemistry found here is the lowest level of entropy known. According to the second TD law, it means that in order to produce maintain and even increase this extreme level of order and complexity, an incredible amount of energy, is "invested" on earth. This energy comes from, say, the sun. But the sun, as a third-generation star, is a consequential phenomenon to earlier generations of stars, which exhausted their potential energy to explode and leave behind a nebula of a later-collapsing mass, consisting of some hydrogen and helium to ignite the next-generation, smaller star (the sun), and some residual heavier elements, to compose the surrounding planets.

So, earlier-generations of stars got their initial energy, exhausted their potential, left some residue of potential energy for the next phenomenon in line and so forth.

Can you consider that the whole chain of potential energy being passed from one phenomenon to the next, in decreasing order of potentiality is a universal whole ?

If one phenomenon in that chain, exhausted it's available energy, how can it pass some to the next, consequential phenomenon, to use further ?

All and everything is connected. Each and every phenomenon is bound to influence the rest of the universe, be it in a gigantic or minute measure. Nothing is really isolated in it's own private little universe.

Yuval;

"'unstable equilibrium of opposing potentials'," Thank you for your comment. I can't say that I have the background to understand it; but thank you anyway.

I understood you to say that you were unable to visualize the complex system that I described so I will try it again.

Visualize a flat level table top.

Suspended on a rigid mount above the table is a strong permanent magnet.

A small iron marble is then rolled very slowly on the top of the table so that it rolls directly under the strong permanent magnet.

The marble is attracted to the magnet because the marble is made of iron.

The marble is lifted off the table top by the magnet and is moved to the surface of the magnet. The marble gets pulled up and stuck to the magnet.

The marble being pulled off the table and moved to the surface of the magnet would require that work be performed.

Where did the energy come from to perform that work?

Gavilan

In "'unstable equilibrium of opposing potentials'" - Some opposing potentials may lead to either stable or unstable equilibrium states - let's take two clear examples of opposing forces holding the equilibrium, in the presence of another force - gravity:

A stable equilibrium may be something like a pendulum, where no matter how you would disturb it's position, it will always decay to it's least energetic state at the zenith position, by the encouragement of earth's pull.

An unstable equilibrium may be something like a house of cards where the longer it is left upright, the more likely it is to collapse, because the opposing forces holding it upright are feeble compared to earth's pull.

- - - -

About your magnet question: It is a tricky question because the way it's presented, it raises the general question of 'Where does any form of energy come from' - let alone the potential energy embedded in a system called the field of an electrostatic magnet and an iron ball.

The simple answer to your specific question is that in the creation of a permanent magnet (able tp attract ferric material) from any regular ferro material, a given amount of energy was invested, to set the atoms' spin in an isotropic manner, to allow for this magnetic attraction.

In short, the energy invested into turning a bulk of iron into a permanent magnet, now able to attract your iron ball, is the energy allowing the ball to be lifted.

The difference between some ferro material and a permanent magnet is that in some regular iron, the charge resulted from the atomic particle spin is anisotropic (randomly directional) and therefore the sum flow of the whole bulk equals zero, while in a permanent magnet, the external energy invested in the magnetisation, confines these erratic charges into an isotropic (unidirectional) grid, to enable attraction or repulsion of an iron.

In thermodynamics, the role of electromagnetic force is rather complicated. Only quantum charge is truly permanent and will never decay as such, but in a magnetic field there is a complex dynamic flow of charge carriers (electrons) in the presence of ferro materials, and such a field will eventually weaken or decay, in response to rise of temperature, or particle interaction - in adherence to the second (TD) law.

I hope I haven't confused the issue

The original linear kinetic energy of the marble .5mvv was much less than than the change in gravitational potential due to its very low v as it moved across the table.

This is an unsupported assumption in your thought experiment. If true, it would violate conservation of energy, so why is this assumption made? Or is your description meant to be a report about an experiment actually performed by someone? If so (or even if hypothetical), provide the parameters. Actually, all we need is the marble's velocity to predict how high it can roll.

If accepted theory applies, then (assuming no losses to friction) the increase of gravitational potential energy should equal the loss of kinetic energy:

delta PE = delta KE

m*g*h = 0.5 m*v^2

which simplifies to

g*h = 0.5 v^2

or

h = 0.5 * v^2/g

What about the video made you believe it? Just watching it?

I looked at it and saw a poorly made video made by a man who claims to have built a working magnet motor.

Why do I say it's poor? Because there's several ways to cheat in it.

• He loves close ups - so you can't see where he's manually turning the thing? Or using a fan to blow air on it to cause it to spin?
• He's using a "precision ball-bearing" housed in a tube that's big enough to hold a small motor.
• He's got it on a table and doesn't bother showing underneath it.

Even if he didn't have a motor running it, if it's a real magnet motor, the moment the horseshoe magnet came in close, it should have started spinning. If it doesn't have the energy to start itself, it won't have energy to run.

Don't be quick to believe everything you see on the internet. If it looks like it can be cheated, it probably was.

These people make a video so that they can get their five minutes of fame. Then when pressured to prove it, they claim harrasment, government conspiracies, theft, or whatever it is that they think will get them off the hook.

regards,

Vulcan

I mean seriuosly does anyone really think this was faked!!!

Of course I think it is fake, because there is nothing to lead me to think otherwise. Perpetual motion machines (with or without magnets) do not work, and have never been demonstrated to work. Why would I think that this particular iteration is the one exception, when that are so many good fakes around?

Unfortunately, your going to have to deal with lots of threads that will tell you that you are wasting your time so be prepared for the long haul. First of all I reccommend you start small. It is not easy to shape a magnet feild. They penetrate almost everything but there is a way to shape them. The Electronics industry utilises mu-metal (80% nickle the rest iron and cobalt, mixes vary) in order to channel magnetic feilds. Mu-metal is mainly used in transformer construction to increase coupling coefficients or sheilding on communications equipement for magentic interferrence. It is however easily sturted and does not work well with strong magnetic feilds.The best metal for warping a magnetic feild silicon-steel.These metals are considered magnetically soft. Magnetic veiwing film is one way of seeing magnetic feilds and ferrofluid is another, however, there is a problem. When you introduce anything ferrous or magnetic into a feild you warp it. I suggest you start small with your testing before you blow some large dollars on magnets. I have had partial success in rotation in motor that I am working on. I beleive patience and accuracy will be the key. Feild strengths vary from magnet to magnet and the only way to tell is to have a very expensive Gauss meter. There are several people who claim to have working magnet motor prototypes but you have to take them with a grain of salt. Good luck with your testing.

Assuming your native language is English (or its close cousin American), I'd guess that the advice you're giving is about as good as your spelling.

Doesn't it seem strange, that despite so many people working on perpetual motors, there are still no working prototypes. ffeJ

There I spell checked it for you. Are you happy? My "a" key needs replacement on my laptop and my spelling is bad, so what! If you are an expert, how about giving me some constructive criticism instead. I have experimented a lot with magnets and I am beginning to feel it is possible to build a magnet motor. About six years ago I helped my son with a school science fair project where we built a 36" ramp with a 10 degree incline. We placed an alluminum channel in the middle that a 1/2" or 3/4" ball bearing could roll on. We took about 100 or so 2"x1"x0.5" magnets and arranged along side the channel and angled the magnets of at 45 degrees with each other. Each magnet sat approximately the middle of the next to it. A row of magnets were placed on each side of the aluminium channel and were offset in alignment. The magnets made a "v" pattern as they were placed on each side of the channel. Each row of magnets was parallel to the aluminium channel. You could place a ball bearing at the bottom of the hill and it would roll uphill to the top against gravity. After we built that unit I always wondered if you could somehow place the magnets in a circle would it be possible to make a magnet motor. This unit was demonstrated to all of his teachers and hundreds of witnesses. It proved permanent magnets can do work. It works well, its real and it is also very simple to duplicate. When the bearing would get to the top of course it would stop at the last magnet. We had to put and extra magnet on the top of the ramp because the ball bearing would roll up and down until the energy was damped off. Some day I will try to route the ball bearing back to the bottom again after it drops off the top. If you feel I am not telling the truth about magnetic fields and warping them with mu-metals and silicon-steel then please prove me wrong. I am looking for as much information as possible about the subject. I am working on a small magnet motor prototype where I have 15 ¼" x 1" magnets cylinders spaced evenly inserted into a 4" Lexan circle. There will be five rotors. I have made three so far. I am getting partial rotation now and I am optimistic. When I am finished I will post on YouTube

Unfortunately, your going to have to deal with lots of threads that will tell you that you are wasting your time so be prepared for the long haul. First of all I recommend you start small. It is not easy to shape a magnet feild. They penetrate almost everything but there is a way to shape them. The Electronics industry utilises mu-metal (80% nickel the rest iron and cobalt, mixes vary) in order to channel magnetic fields. Mu-metal is mainly used in transformer construction to increase coupling coefficients or shielding on communications equipment for magnetic interference. It is however easily saturated and does not work well with strong magnetic feilds. The best metal for warping a magnetic feild silicon-steel. These metals are considered magnetically soft. Magnetic viewing film is one way of seeing magnetic fields and ferrofluid is another, however, there is a problem. When you introduce anything ferrous or magnetic into a feild you warp it. I suggest you start small with your testing before you blow some large dollars on magnets. I have had partial success in rotation in motor that I am working on. I believe patience and accuracy will be the key. Feild strengths vary from magnet to magnet and the only way to tell is to have a very expensive Gauss meter. There are several people who claim to have working magnet motor prototypes but you have to take them with a grain of salt. Good luck with your testing.

Thanks for your input. I will replicate it. At end of the ramp I gradually began adjusting the spacing of the magnets and curving them downward so gravity could assist. I have actually bought a little one that releases the ball and that is where I got the idea. It was about 2 inches long but had a different magnet arrangement. There was a small ball bearing about 1/8". If you have not seen or heard of it then what good is your engineering anyway? I owned one and it worked or I wouldn't have tried to build one. Please keep working with pineapples and turnips. I guess that is where you are at your best.

Why can't you let the ball drop off the top into a tube that ( through gravity ) sends the ball to the start with the added momentum of the drop! Can we see what you are talking about on You Tube? I know everybody thought that the world was flat once so I'm going to keep interested just in case you can prove that it is in fact spherical so to speak! Prove everybody wrong and become the next ECNY Award winner

It is easy to continue the magnets beyond the ramp and support them as we have done. At a certain point gravity does take over. They drop off rather quickly. We laid the unit on the floor and I only had a 1" flexible pvc pipe. Dropping the ball out was easy and the ball bearing rolled through the 10 foot pipe and into my kitchen 20 feet away. I tried building several return rails but the accuracy required requires more than a pair of needle nose pliers and some stainless steel wire. I always wanted to complete the ball return and see if it was possible to build a mini unit for your desktop as a conversation piece. After all the insults I have decided to resurrect the idea. We used a 36" 2 x 6 and screwed a 1/2" aluminum channel to it. Arranging the magnets is easy. Lay 2 magnets 1" x 2" x 1/2 inch side by side so they attract on the edge. Slide one magnetic up to the middle of the other and tape them together. Repeat the process over and over until you have a line of them all at 45 degrees. When you place them parallel to the aluminum rail they will slant downward from left to right but will be parallel with the rail. Take the left hand build another line of magnets opposite poles downward from right to left this time. You will end up with attraction between both sides with the rail in the middle. I am presuming that the steel ball bearing warps the field on both sides and as soon as you slowly push the ball bearing into the field it grabs and it takes off. It is important to offset the the left and the right line of magnets by lifting one side up slightly so they are not directly across from one another or it will not work.. It actually scared us when we first tested it. A friend took the magnets to experiment and it has been three years now and I have not gotten them back after several requests. They were cheap ceramic and were not that powerful anyway. I will be ordering 150 magnet from Ningbo China today and I will be replicating it once again. The return ramp is my biggest concern. When ball drops off I am more concerned in slowing it down than anything. That is a lot of energy for a three foot return. The neat thing about this is if you want more hight at the top, you just build it longer. It will go all the way up to the top before it starts to come down again and does it ever accelerate up hill. You just find out where it stops and cut off the ramp. Hopefully my spelling is ok because we have a spelling "bee" in the crowd. I am a real person and this is real. Everything I have told you here is true. I will prove it. As soon as I have another one built I will post it on You Tube. I guarantee it. I have just told you how to build one and as I said, it is easily replicated. You can do as I have indicated or just put a big magnet at the top like another thread has indicated. The problem with his design is I can guarantee you won't allow gravity to take over.

I have a quote for 200 Neodium magnets N45 nickle plated for $0.53 each from Ningbo China. I will be working with 1" x 1/2" x 1/4". When my invoice arrives I will be completing the order and I will once again construct the ramp. When the construction is complete and I have posted on You Tube you may have it if you wish but you will have pay the postage. I will probably build a couple.

Icabod (Crane?), please talk less and build and film for You Tube more.

Talk is cheap as people used to say......I am personally convinced that the unit will not complete more than one complete cycle before stopping or needeing external assistance to continue.

That is actually what I intend to do. There is no need for me to post here anymore unti it is done and yes I have talked a lot. You may be right, but I want to find out if it will work. Are threads kept indefintely so I may return in a month or so? I will give progress reports on You Tube.

That should be quite an interesting looking contraption.

A note of caution thou, be REALLY careful as powerful magnets can cause rather serious injury's if you allow them to come together and your finger (or skin) is caught.

Also be aware that they should never be allowed to bang together as they can shatter spraying chips everywhere and are eye hazard so I would use some sort of eye protection (I would and I am an engineer. Safety first, always).

Also, never, ever allow them to come into contact with any form of magnetic metal particles as you will NEVER get the magnets clean again (I actually store our powerful magnets in sealed plastic bags).

You may also notice a degradation in the magnetic field over time (depending on what you are doing with them), this is normal.

Thankyou, I will heed your warnings You're right, these things are dang dangerous. I have 240 N45 magnets on my table. They are 1/4" x 1" and you can put one on each side of your finger and they will hold on. You guys are engineers and I am not so I may be back for an occasion question or two. I will try to research on my own first. If you have answers to my questions it is only fair you share your knowledge.

I've looked at a couple of videos on this motor, and found them almost painfully slow moving, but I stuck with it (at least, for a while) and could see nothing that would lead me to think that the response is out of the ordinary. It is well-known that field weakening causes a motor to speed up, (which may seem counter intuitive to those unfamiliar with motors) I'd expect that a permanent magnet correctly placed could cause field weakening, so I can't see anything remarkable here.

The screamingly obvious test is to run the motor under load, and to measure energy input and output. But nowhere in the videos I watched was that done. Speed changes, by themselves, are completely meaningless: only the product of speed and torque (or correctly calculated electrical corollaries) is a meaningful measure of power output. In the typical field weakening scenario, speeds goes up and torque goes down.

Perhaps Heins has discovered something, but I've haven't seen anything to indicate that he has. Maybe Zahn can help him put together a credible demonstration described in sufficient detail to assess whether there is anything out of the ordinary here.

Hay stop spinning the Pineapple.

I hope your experiment didn't hurt any pineapple. My lawyers are waiting.

Damn forgotten to login.

Rest assured, that as the money starts pouring in for my Pineapple motor, you will receive your share of the royalties.

Thanks Ken for a hilarious and witty reply! And here is another web site where free energy proponents can check to see if someone else has already thought of their "breakthrough"

http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/unwork.htm

Your links and information are good. I am glad I checked them all out. I read everything in your posts and the links to links also. I know I am in for a challenge and the odds are against me but never-the-less I am going replicate it. We had magnets pulling with gravity after the bearing went over the top. I measured yesterday and the bearing actually rolled 25 feet before it hit our cupboards. My 36" ramp is built and ready for the magnets to arrive.

I wish you luck with the project. Even if it doesn't do exactly what you want it to do, you'll have fun.

Just make the ramp in a flat circle and see if the ball bearing will roll forever. Measure velocity of the bearing, find weight of the bearing and calculate how much torque/force it got. In fact if the "ramp" works, the bearing should accelerate indefinitely. Unless the force it get is just enough to over come friction which will make the motor useless since it doesn't create more energy then it need to keep moving.

You are too funny Pineapple. The best part of this whole thing is that I have an advantage. We have done it. If a 10 year old boy can arrange the magnets in way it will drop the ball bearing what does that do for your credibility. I am going to love putting this on You Tube. By all means put in a post that indicates what my son did never happened. I would love for him to read that from you. I guess that would make him smarter than you when he was only 10. Imagine.

I already know what the end result will be so I am not going to spoil the result (or the surprise). People today still need to get hands-on training, and with the incredible developments in miniaturization and circuit complexity it has become almost impossible for anyone without a well equipped lab and computer to develop or build anything really interesting or new (microprocessors, SMD, MEM, etc). Thankfully magnets are still the one thing that miniaturisation hasn't caught up with and that anyone can tinker with.

I hope that your tinkering will lead you to a greater understanding of the principles of magnets and energy conservation, or at the very least help build an interest in learning more about the science behind what is going on. You would be surprised what can be done, we can even bend many of the physical and mechanical laws (within reason of course). Cannot break them thou (there are some unique exceptions but that would be way off topic as they don't relate to magnetism).

Enjoy.

ok what you need to do is look around don't waiste your time on here they will only shoot you down.

my company has a unit that produces energy without motion we stoped the movment 5 months ago and have made some break throughs

our video of the first unit to run over unity is http://www.youtube.com/magnacoastermotors

2 x 300 watt inverts and a dead battery the new unit we have is called vorktex it has no moving parts and makes alot more power then the one in the video.

my email is on my website www.magnacoaster.com if you want to talk we have patents pending and are now going into production in a Kitchener Ontario plant.

Richard

Well the most important bit is done - selecting a catchy name "Vorktex".

Now you only have to get the (minor detail) independent testing done. ffeJ

In your previous post as a guest, you claimed that you have a device that produced 400 volts at 10 amps from an input of 12 volts at 1 amp. Is that what you are claiming from whatever it is you are trying to sell on your website?

The website is unclear re what is being sold.

In one clear concise paragraph, what is your "vorktex"? If you'd try to use normal punctuation and capitalization, that might make your description more understandable.

Thanks.

Brilliant, I could not do better, laughed my socks off.

I have also rated this as a good answer.

Many, many thanks.

Hallelujah! We're saved from having to rely on expensive oil!!!!!!!!!!

Despite all the other water-fuel scams we've seen lately, of course this one is the real deal!

You are more than welcome to buy one if you like.

More information can be found here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genepax

I will wait however until actual proof is supplied, after all extraordinary claims call for extraordinary proof, and as we all know there have been so many water-powered engine claims over the years that yet another one will really have to prove itself over all the rest to be taken seriously. A marketing release is not proof, nor is a misleading grainy video or a patent.

As for the 'other' claimed water-powered and overunity magnetic engines I mentioned, they can be found here

http://keelynet.com/

Surly one must work, right.

Enjoy.

The claim of a car running on water (electrolysis of water into hydrogen and oxygen, then recombining those together in a sustainable and stable self-feeding chain-reaction) has been around since the nineteen-fifties.

The problem here is not theoretical. Theory permits this to happen, from a chemical point of view, and the only emission from such process is merely some water vapour, or steam-residue, depending on ambient temperature and pressure at the exhaust point.

The problem has to do with the energy economics of such reaction, hence, it is in terms of efficiency and viability, which once calculated, points to hinder the possibility of a stable chain-reaction.

Imagine if you will, a system which consists of rechargeable electrical battery, an electrolysis chamber, and a combustion chamber, not unlike that of a petrol engine.

In such engine, the chain reaction is that of a repeating cycle, in which, you electrolyse water into hydrogen and oxygen by the required electric current, recombine those by applying threshold combustion temperature, utilising the expansion into mechanical work and re charging the battery (or capacitor) to allow for the next cycle to take place.

The sum of energy required to electrolyse water into it's component gasses and to heat the mixture into combustion, is more than the amount of energy resulted from the expansion of gas and put into useful work, available for utilisation of the next cycle.

So, basically, you may apply to patent such imaginary chain reaction of you own design, the question being: whilst one cycle may prove possible, provided you have ample available current in your battery to initialise the reaction, but that's about it, and the possibility of a stable chain-reaction remains as illusive as always.

Your prototype may even attract investors demonstrating that chemically it's viable, and one cycle is working fine.

Only once you have demonstrated that the engine is past the first cycle of the reaction, and rattles into a repetitive chain reaction, much like any other motor around, is where you are likely to become reacher than Bill Gates, overnight.

Best of luck though, since many of the hoax masters tried their deceit right there, between the first and the second cycle, giving the illusion that their one cycle reaction managed to somehow repeat, as their engine was magically "awaken" into life, I'll spare you with the "how" of it, if you don't mind.

Another one of those Posters on CR4.....

Do we or do we not have far more than our fair share of the Nuts at harvest time?

Its hardly worth even replying to these types of statements really, except to make fun of them till they disappear back into the woodwork, sorry.....

Hello guest,

You should consider logging into CR4 ,it seems like you have some good ideas needing discussions.

The concepts you describe sound very "Myth buster like". Neodymium magnetic rotary motor? 45 degree cone shape?

Perhaps you have a good idea, I am a tool and die maker, give me some more details, perhaps I can point you in the right direction, as to not spending to much money on building an engine.

Mirco.

problem with all magnets is the vortex's off the sides of the magnets they tend to cause feild problems as the magnets go around.

if you look we had a unit with magnets around the outside of the shaft that had a magnet in the repell mode on the other shaft this looked on in a small format but as we got the the one inch size the feilds are bigger and need to have more of a focus there is a way to do it but as with all new things it was cost prohibitive.

if you look at ecycle they have a solid slot motor this motor could be the next big thing. no worries about burning out the windings. you have to remeber that there are companies that have made motors with new magnets and materials the problem is the costs for all the parts is more then the market can handle at this time.

Roadships AU. was the one i was thinking of and have not heard much from them in a long time as they spun off there magnetic motor company.

looking for a good read on the magnets ?

Howard Johnson - The Secret World of Magnets

open your eyes and have a look

Magnacoaster, Thx for your book reference "Howard Johnson - The Secret World of Magnets". I'm not building something as complex as vortex magnet motor like "guest" is but I have been looking for a book like Howard Johnson's for very long time. I have also been looking for information on Tesla and I found both in a search at http://cheniere.org/sales/online-store.htm for those who are interested.

Icabod,

This man is not Amish. There are 3 easy ways to tell: (1) he is willingly having his picture taken; (2) he is using electricity other than in his occupation; and (3) his clothing is not the correct colors.

There appears to be nothing special here that at least half a dozen of us on here couldn't duplicate. Note that he did not use energy meters.

I know it's tempting to want to be able to find free energy. I've been trying to trisect an angle for the past 47 years and I'm so close I can taste it, but I do know it's impossible. So, have fun with your motor but don't sink a lot of money and time into it.

Also has anyone seen this before ? They look like Omish people producing free electricity. I can't find anything more about this anywhere.

The video is a hoot! The Amish looking garb is a nice touch: Amish have a reputation for being honest and hard working. Of course they also have a reputation for avoiding things like electricity -- but maybe the creators of this video thought that would add a little drama and make the video more memorable. I love the deadpan delivery of the main actor. It would have to taken many takes to avoid fits of laughter, I'd think.

This same team has promoted an ultrasonic water heater that heats 30 gallons of water (per hour, I think they said) from just a 9 volt battery. The video for that is equally silly, but not as captivating.

This thread talks a little about the "World Improvement Through The Spirit Ministry". I don't know how far they got with their scam -- but wrapping the fraud up in Christianity is a touch that seems to work well for other scams, such as Dennis Lee's and Joe Newman's.

There is no science (of the type practiced by engineers, universities, or research institutions) that supports free energy/over unity/perpetual motion machines, or "magnet motors" or PICC devices. "Belief", however can support anything, and logic need not play a part. For example, it is completely illogical that Christians would kill others, ("Thou shalt not kill") but few groups have killed more people than Christians. The strength of these scams is to squelch logic and promote uneducated and uncritical belief.

This particular one may be a little over the top, and therefore not as successful as others, but Dennis Lee has bilked people out of millions, using similar techniques.

Amish sorry, my mistake, but they do look the part.. I think there are many people out there that really want to believe that there is an alternative form of free energy has not been found. I know a guy that I went to school with that is now a multi millionaire from selling those green gasoline pills and they have been tested by some Universities to be made up of naphthalene. A guy might as well buy a box of mothballs instead for $1.25. They have been shut down in Texas. A hunting buddy of mine was visiting him only to hear him on the phone negotiating a $300 million dollar deal for that crap to sell to the public. That absolutely makes me sick. I can't stand him or his MLM. This another company led by a so called "Man of God". Everybody is so tired of being ruled over by the pumps and the utility companies they are wiling to believe almost anything. Thx, I knew something was up with these guys.

need all the tesla stuff ?

http://www.tesla.hu/tesla/tesla.htm#Articles

i have links for it all i collected that stuff first to make sure i was not making a copy of a tesla invent

Richard

Perfect, awesome link thx.

Post deleted due to language.

Very well and kindly put.

I need to weigh in on this. We get some members who are not longshoremen or drill sergeants. Not long ago, we had a very pleasant young lady still in high school. So, everybody please watch your language. An ocassional profanity is one thing; a running stream of obscenities is out of place.

Indeed.

I find that a huge amount of internet resources are wasted on pure pollution. There seems to be an infinite number of websites that promote outright lies. I believe in freedom of speech and I am against governments regulating or controlling internet content however a rating system of some type should be considered.

Human nature is fascinating. I have watched several scams unfold and seen so many people fight against logic and facts relentlessly. I have been so frustrated at times that I felt like starting my own scam becuase a whole lot of people are going to give their money to someone, it might as well be me.

I am siding with the engineers on the subject presented here. However, when you say that you can't get something for nothing, there's no free lunch and you cannot get more energy out than what is put in, I have a few questions.

How much energy is produced by a nuclear explosion?

How well do we really understand magnetism and gravity or the atom?

How about that 17 billion dollar collider with super cooled magnets the size of my apartment buried hundreds of feet underground in Europe.

Do you think it will create a black hole, discover new dimensions, find more subparticles or will we end up with a whole new array of questions that need answers?

Perpetual motion may be a hoax but there are some planets in our universe that have been spinning a long, long, long time.

Earn tens of thousands daily working from home in your free time--> Click Here

Hi Guest,

Good questions.

In the case of a nuclear explosion, there is no free energy involved. In the case of fission (the simplest to understand in this case), if you add up all the energy and mass before the explosion, it equals all the energy and mass after the explosion. And, there is a huge energy overhead involved in making that explosion.

From an engineering point of view, we know the properties of the atom, magnetism, and gravity pretty well. We don't understand them and probably never will, but we know how to use them.

Planetary motion is very close to perpetual, but not quite. But, perpetual motion as used in the scams doesn't mean just being in motion for a very long time, but also doing work while staying in motion.

I don't know enough about colliders to comment, but I know there are a couple of people on here who do.

Why not register and join in? There are so many "Guests" that we aren't sure who we're talking to and you get better reponses if you have have a handle.

well put.

Also, there is a difference between an accurate description for the behaviour of nature, and "understanding" it in the sense that understanding, true understanding in the physical sense, requires infinite amount of trivia, because in actuality, everything relates to everything.

The relative terms of "grasp" and "comprehension", relate to limited amount of trivia, and therefore our understanding of something, anything, is context-dependant, thus very limited in scope, and prone to contradiction.

Are we brave and humble enough, like the pioneers of quantum mechanics in the nineteen-thirties, to admit that we only attempt to describe nature as accurately as possible, but not in attempt to explain or understand it?

And that, describe, they did. To an accuracy so high, which is hardly within normal grasp.

Without the pretension to explain.

Only describe, and then, in turn, harness nature according to this description.

It was enough to base upon it, what we now call Modern Electronics, Bio-Chemistry, Nano-Technology, and other such wonders of technology.

The question, as I prefer it, is not "do we have to explain", but rather, "can we?"

You make good points. I hadn't really thought about it that way, but we do have all these wonders of electronics without understanding what charge is. I had an old Physics professor who was very secular (I think he went to temple only when his son was in town) who, at that point, would just say, "Oh, that's God. We can't understand it." At the time he made me crazy; now I get his point.

I'm not sure about registering because I'm probably just passing thru but if I decide to post again I will register as a courtesy. You fellas are way beyond my intellectual level. I'm just a high school grad.

I didn't consider all of the energy required to produce the fission material that I believe you are referring to and that is an interesting point.

I worked on cars 60-70 hours a week for 10 years and I now despise the internal combustion engine. I believe electric motors should have been the path to follow a long time ago. Some day people will look back at our civilization a wonder how we could have squandered all of the energy contained in oil by burning it in such an inefficient way.

I have tried to follow the super colliders in a limited way through newspaper articles I know the physics are beyond my comprehension but I am still interested.

It seems to me Tesla had an epiphany and grasped a basic concept that grew into a revolution for all of mankind. Some times I wonder if there might be some basic principle that was been overlooked and is waiting for some Joe like me to explore.

I must say I find it fastinating that men of your caliber would devote time to educating people such as myself. Perhaps there is hope for mankind.

We all have our dreams.

Making the world a better place doesn't just mean learning and then going out and doing it yourself, it also includes teaching and helping others so that one day they to can do the same (those that want to learn that is). The ripple effect.

Some times I wonder if there might be some basic principle that was been overlooked and is waiting for some Joe like me to explore.

Another reason to offer advice and guidance, after all to the average person pseudoscience and real science look very, very similar and no matter how far down a dead-end road you go, it is still a dead-end road. Many misguided people who want to make a difference, a fortune or both have gone done this road in the past and many more will do the same in the future. I can only hope that my time offering advise and dealing with them here is well spent.

Umm! I feel my bile rising... teeth starting to change to mandible.. hormones mixing with venom of radioactive hummingbird...must control, NO!..can't control...agh..the terrible quote erupts

"One of these days in your travels, a guy is going to come up to you and show you a nice brand-new deck of cards on which the seal is not yet broken, and this guy is going to offer to bet you that he can make the Jack of Spades jump out of the deck and squirt cider in your ear. But, son, do not bet this man, for as sure as you are standing there, you are going to end up with an earful of cider."
Damon Runyon from Guys and Dolls

Well myself and others have covered Magnacoaster.com, and oxy-hydrogen.com before (along with water electrolysis cold fusion). I don't think we need to go into it these scams, hopelessly bad labwork and overused over unity devices again. Refer to previous threads if anyone want's a scientific and practical explanation on the basics of electricity and scams written by real scientests and engineers such as myself who actually can tell pesudoscience from real science.

As for Blacklightpower.com, I am sure a chemical engineer could give you a better explanation of using fossil fuel to produce hydrogen, then converting it into dihydrino gas using a special process, then using that gas to radically boost the efficiency of the fossil fuel. In the end it comes out to be just another pretty-looking over unity process.

The fact the first thing they say on their website is "BlackLight Power, Inc. has created a commercially competitive, nonpolluting new primary source of energy. Atomic hydrogen ordinarily has a stable electronic state that is much higher in energy than allowed by thermodynamic laws" should be a good indication, especially when fossil fuel is the primary fuel source to start and run the process.

And then further down......

"Furthermore, the process is nonpolluting. Since the identified more-stable-hydrogen (dihydrino) molecule byproduct is stable and lighter-than-air, it cannot accumulate in the Earth's atmosphere. Thus, the enormous annual fossil fuel cost and the environmental impact to the air, water, and ground of producing, handling, and using fossil fuels may be eliminated. "

And it just goes on and on.

<sigh>

If you are interested in overunity devices and processes (which all of the above are) perhaps you should try Keelynet instead. They also have a lot on cold fusion, including plans for numerous 'working' devices.

It is obvious that the brain washing has worked well. Real businesses that are actually producing products tend to be real especially when they are stock held companies. When there is fraud or even expected fraud the government steps in as that is an illegal especially when there is stock involved. The world is so fortunate to have so many people who close their minds to the NAY SAYERs. Do you really know what world you live in or that the horse and wagon has been replaced, and by the way electricity actually works and if you Nay Says had your way there would be no computers and internet. I am very pleased that I don't live or reside in your dark world. See you in the real future. Tell me Mr. scientist and engineer how do Bubble Bees fly????? according to you they can't, it is impossible.

Tell me Mr. scientist and engineer how do Bubble Bees fly????? according to you they can't, it is impossible.

Is this a trick question? Yes Bubble Bees probably do not fly, because there are no bubble bees. Bumble bees, on the other hand, fly according to the laws of science. That scientists claim that they cannot fly is an urban legend. Nonsense.

I wonder if you might be lost. There are other sites that strongly support pseudoscience and that also are supportive of your rude tone. I wrote a post to another lost soul just a few minutes ago, and I think you might find it helpful too.