Will I Get Shocked?

Are you hovering in mid-air while you perform this experiment, or standing in a bucket of water?

You will get a shock only if you are connected to both the power source and its return - by any means.

Please remember before trying this out, that transformers are NOT perfect, if its not a safety isolation transformer there WILL be some capacitance from the neutral to ground and this capacitance will pass some current through you!!!

This is why when testing a class 1 instrument, that has a protective earth to ensure safety, you should still wire the earth to mains earth. As the mains inlet filter contains capacitors to earth and if its not earthed then the case becomes electrofied!!

Although, having said that the filter capacitors are limited in their size so as not to represent a shock hazard....

John.

You can bet your ass, that your experience will not be nice, or much worse!! Your body needs only about 10 milliAmps to get some very nasty responses. Isolated, ungrounded systems have a very limited use (as in instrumentation), as capacitances and leakages do not allow a decent separation in general. Additionally, the grounding of the housings is mandatory to avoid getting shocked left and right.

Yes, you will experience a shock. Yes, current will flow through you. The magnitude of the current will depend on the phase-neutral voltage and the impedance of the insulating system between the phase and neutral (the insulating system consists of your body, your shoes/clothes/etc., whatever you are standing on, and the soil resistivity between the point of ground nearest to you and the neutral conductor.

The phase and neutral conductors effectively become the plates of a large capacitor. The insulating system described above is the insulator between the plates. The current passing through your body is the equivalent of leakage current in a common capacitor. There will always be some leakage, usually in micro-amperes or smaller. However, take any capacitor and put 10x-20x rated voltage across the terminals, and it will fail immediately.

There are safe ways to contact a hot phase conductor. Live-line maintenance of transmission circuits involves a helicopter to get sufficient distance from ground. The worker uses an arcing hook for initial contact to the phase conductor. That contact charges the worker and helicopter to line potential. The worker must wear a conductive suit so that the charging current passes around his body, and not through it. He then climbs onto the conductor to work while the helicopter moves off. The worker must take care to minimize the distance of any body part from the conductor so as not to become a point of stress in the electrical field. If that occurs in the direction of ground or another phase, an arc will occur between the worker and the other point.

very ,thought provoking informative reply . good answer.Thanks

Guest, I don't see how you would get a shock touching one wire , say at 220 or 440

volts maybe if your talking 5,000 volts or more perry

Essential is not what you dont see but WHAT REALLY AND SURELY DOESN`T HAPPEN IN A LIFE CRITICAL QUESTION LIKE THIS - so don`t tell such a rubbish - you do not know the system he might touch !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Love your signature comment as it is sooooo true.

Dear Friend ,

In one of the factory quarters a lady died of electrocution while hanging a wet cloth on a metallic wire. The matter was investigated and the finding was that there was a leakage voltage of 36 volts on that wire and the lady died of the current from that leakage voltage. A current from a 5000volts megger may not kill a person. (caution : can kill also so do not take risk in touching megger leads with bear hand ) It is not the voltage that kills. It is the current that kills.

Will you get a shock?

The first shock I give you is that you are not fit to work in electrical engineering. since you do not know why you get an electrical shock.

Second shock is that you do not know that touching any electrical live part is against electrical safety rules and electrical engineer is not permitted to violate safety rules.

Thirdly the Alternating Current is not as simple to understand. It charges, It can pass through insulators even your protective metallic shield get charged. You must learn what is potential gradient.So even without touching you can get an electric shock from a charged conductor. Ask those who work on HT & EHT lines even dead lines are considered as live and protective precaution is taken before starting work. Even if a parallel line is charged it can cause accident. A current of 100 ma current is sufficient to kill a person. So touching the phase line can kill you So better not to touch with out insulated glows.

Actually, it only takes 6 milliamps across the heart to kill you. The amperage required at your fingertips, factoring the resistance of the human body, for enough electricity to reach your heart will vary person to person, so just because you may be exposed to an amperage less then 100 mA, that does not guarantee safety. Environmental conditions also play a huge role (for example. are you standing on a metal plate with uninsulated shoes, covered in water?)

At any rate, you should lockout/tagout the breaker to any piece of energized machinery and ensure that it has been de-energized prior to doing any work. If you worry if there is some stored electricity, a grounding rod may be used. Such a potential threat to safety shouldn't even warrent an individual asking such a question.

I would like to add, that surprisingly small voltage can generate that 6 or 10milliAmps. When I was young and foolish I experimented on myself and friends along these lines. Well, most of the resistance is in your skin. If dry, it is a few 10kOhms. If wet, it is a few kOhms. But if you just pierce your skin, the resistance between your left and right hand sinks below 150 Ohms. Let that sink in: below 150 Ohms. In that case a single dry cell of 1,5 Volts could supply the 10milliAmps just discussed. Ok, ok, it is a highly unlikely, artificial situation, but nontheless that is the bottommost limit. And the woman electrocuted by 35V, in a previous note, fits nicely with this data.

In mines, where it can get exposed, 24VDC allowed when dry, and 12VDC allowed in a wet environment. And you expect miners to be professionals, treating power with respect.

Very possibly,

Lets say you have a true isolation transformer with 120v between the 2 secondary legs with no direct bonding to ground. The groung to legs measurement could vary they maybe 60v-60v; they maybe 120v-0v or anything in between the only constant is 120v leg to leg. Depending upon the ground to leg reference voltage it is very possible you will be shocked possibly severly. Once a leg is bonded to ground it becomes the Neutral (usually the B phase is bonded). The Equipment case is also bonded to ground to ground because if it is not there could be a voltage potential difference with respect to ground that would be a shock hazard.

Down here 3rd wire grounds are not used. All conduit is pvc pipe. In my house, if you touch any computer or metal cased appliance you get a nice jolt. Adding to this is the fact that street to house connections are all mixed, hot and nuetral mixed. My ground on computer to earth is 90 volts!

How much you value your and your loved ones lives? Sorting it out might be worth your while. Putting down a ground rod allows you to measure the current willing to flow into it from anywhere. Just use an ammeter in series with a few Watts lightbulb. With that, if you touch a hot wire, the lamp will light up signalling you. At the same time the ammeter will not be blown. In a pinch a 1 - 4Watts lamp alone will help you to do the trick of sorting out hot / neutral / ground. The voltage alone on a casing does not tell the story, as a fraction of a milliAmps can give you a zap, independently of the voltage.

If nothing solves the problem above, because the neutral is coming to you from the provider is already at a potential, an isolation transformer and a ground rod always establishes an orderly situation.

Do you not have your own grounding system from ground and all metal water pipes to an earth spike outside the house? If not, do it!!!!

If mains wiring is in conduit, make sure that all joints are also bonded.....

You are in a situation that could kill you at this time!!!

No wonder your Avatar looks so Ghoulish!!!

As someone else mentioned, the original poster should stay away from anything stronger than a "D"Cell battery, or he will be appearing on Darwin awards web site!!!!

Oh No, Andy now you want to thwart a beautiful and educational expression of Darwin's law of the stupid eliminating itself from the gene pool!?! How miserly! Maybe the guy is just a "performance artist". Depriving them is so uncool and yesterday!!!

You are so right! How thoughtless of me. I stand repentant and full of remorse....

Please accept my heartfelt and full apologies for spoiling you fun!!!

Thank you all for the valuable views. While on the topic I will ask, in case of a small DG for home use I mean little genie of 1ph 240V, 500VA if the neutral is not earthed and one touches the live wire will it shock the person?

Why would the neutral not be earthed? In a proper system it would be.....even on little generators it would normally be, or are you going to remove it first?

Why do you keep asking this same question, have you not understood all the answers fully?

Let me spell it out for you in a simple way, perhaps this might help:-

TOUCHING LIVE WIRES WITH HIGH VOLTAGE ON THEM CAN RESULT IN DEATH OR DAMAGE TO THE PERSON DOING THIS, THEREFORE IT IS RECOMMENDED NOT TO DO IT, EVEN IF NO PATH FOR THE ELECTRICITY CAN BE FOUND USING A TEST METER!!!

A clever person does not try such dangerous tricks out no matter how safe he feels it is!!! Do you have some sort of death wish?

Of course, you could try it out and if sudden death is the result, then please try and send us an email from the other side! We will then put your name forward for the Darwin Awards for 2008.

Please click on this link for further infos:-

Darwin Awards

Really good award. Thanks for giving the link

Thankshttp://darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin2008-03.html

CR4 has lost many readers over the years. Best not to make it another one, eh?