The Wire that Controls my Pump Has Gone Bad. Any Good Ideas on How to Fix it?

When you say it stopped working, how do you mean? Are you saying that when the tank reaches low level that the pump does not kick on? Or do you mean that when the tank is full the pump does not kick off? Can you kick on the pump manually? Is there a breaker that might have taken the pump out?

I would suspect the float switch in the tank rather than the wire...

Might be at the connection to the pump... A continuity check with a 20 dollar multimeter from Walmart should be good enough to check the float switch.

Sparky - you spark. Yes this is alternate & cheapest way. He can first install a pressure gauge at the pump end and check both the pressure when tank full(cut off) and tank empty (cut in) and accordingly install a pressure switch to on/off the pump.

After acouple of trys he can get accuracy.

Sparkstation,

Thank you for your response. I think you have understood my problem and your solution seems logical enough (I kind of feel dumb for not thinking of using a pressure switch). I also wanted to know your thoughts about this: http://www.remotecontroltech.com/Applications/pumpcontrol.aspx

I did a search for wireless pump control and this seems like it would also work. Could you advise me on the differences between your solution and this solution?

Also, I think i need to find a new contractor.

Thanks,

Rob

Hello again rrb

I've looked at that Wireless system, and it appears to be a good one.

Potential snags:

1. Cost - considerably more than the pressure switch solution.
   
2. Need for either electric Power to be run to tank, or solar power unit at tank.
3. Solar power may be interfered with, by snow, dust, birds roosting, or debris on the panels.
4. Ensure proper encryption of the transmitted information, otherwise nearby wireless transmissions could interfere with your pump controls.

I have always considered it's best to remember Murphy's Law, and use the lowest possible technology to achieve the desired result. As Systems become more complex, the chances of failure or mal-operation increase exponentially.

That's why I offered the pressure switch solution as the cheapest and best for your situation.

Visual checking System:

If your tank is visible in the daytime from your house or pump or easy access location, you could place a float with a wooden/plastic smooth-sided "marked with sections in different colours" rod/tube fixed to it, that rod/tube running inside a tube fitted to the tank lid.

As the water level lowers, the rod/tube will slide down through the fixed tube, and as the water level rises, the marked rod/tube will progressively extend upwards from the plastic tube so the rod/tube may be seen via binoculars from quite a distance.

Here we mark the rod/tube sectionally, top section of rod is red, next is amber, bottom part is green.

That way you can easily see the colour band, and extent of rod/tube above the top of the tank, which relates directly to the water level inside the tank.

A good pair of binoculars can see the status of the marked rod/tube, from several miles away, on a clear day.

Kind Regards....

Sparkstation,

Thank you for your help. The company that makes the wireless system said the MSRP for the system I would need was $1650. Luckily I do have utility power at the tank, but unfortunately I do not have a good line of sight from either the pump or my house otherwise the rod/tube idea would have been genius. Except I would still have to trek down to the pump to turn it on / off. How much do you think the pressure switch solution would cost? What about the point another poster (Steve i think) brought up about leaks between the pump and the tank?

I'll let you know what I decide to do.

-Rob

Hello again, rrb

Twin Pressure Switch solution:

• 2 No. Pipe tees.
• 5 no. Pipe Nipples to suit.
• 1 No. Pipe adaptor bush (if required to alter pipe size from switches to main pipe or point of sensing pressure at pump site).
• 1 No. Roll Ceelon (PTFE Threadseal) tape.
• 1 No. Pressure switch - Differential type.
• 1 No. Pressure Switch - Safety type (cuts pump out at a higher pressure, if Differential Switch jams "On" with ball-cock valve closed at tank.
• Electrical Cabling, and flexible conduit to Suit.
• 2 to 3 Hours work by intelligent Electrician, to fit Pressure Switches, plus Wiring, and set up all.
• Travel Costs for Electrician.
• your own Costs for travel etc to obtain parts.
  

Cost estimate would be $100 to $120 for Materials, plus Electrician's Cost, and your own costs.

You say the tank is not visible from the house - Have you thought of installing a mirror, or two, to give you a view of a tank indicator rod, should you decide to install one. (Think laterally).

<"What about the point another poster (Steve i think) brought up about leaks between the pump and the tank?">

Yes, but there is always a leak potential problem in every plumbing situation, including your existing arrangement.

You could calculate your "normal" usage once the replacement system was set up.

Calculate how long the pump needs to operate, to completely fill an empty tank (Or up from the minimum you select).

Then add a timing relay, the setting of which disconnects the pump after 200% of that filling time has elapsed, and causes a light/hooter/alarm of some description to alert you that something is wrong - In other words, it makes a call for an intelligent person = your good self, or a useful neighbour.

If you were able to advise tank size, pump size, and place a few photos here, it would be easier to analyse your situation more correctly, and advise more completely.

Kind Regards from far away....

Remote Control Technology might be expensive for your application, you need sytem for personal use. Spark's suggestion sounds economical also no electronics are involved which may give you problem latter on.

Sparky,

I like what you have suggested, but what if you get a small leak in the piping system? The pump might end up running all the time, whereas with his current rig it only pops on when the tank level is low...

I can turn the pump on manually, and the float switch seems to be working fine.

What did you do to check out the float switch? Are you saying that by pushing down on it the pump comes on? Or did you disconnect the wires, hook a multimeter to it and check that there was no continuity at high level position and continuity at low level position

I am sorry to be pesky, but one line answers on an internet forum are not helpful.. If we were talking face to face we could work through things efficiently, but here you really need to provide as much detail as possible so we don't have to guess and so we don't have to play 20 questions..

A good thorough description of the system would be a good start, including a schematic. You can put images in your post with the camera icon in the message screen.

Damned elegant that!

Like Steve S says..it's most likely the switch or a connector that has failed. Or a point where the wire is exposed...

You can check the whole wire run by dissconnecteing it completely at both ends.
Check with a multimeter that it is not short circuit (e.g resistance between the two wires should be high (greater than say 1Mohm)
Connect a 9volt battery to the two wire at one end...go to the other end and check the voltage with your meter...it should be somewhere near the 9v.

Del

If i understand you right that your storage tank is a mile and a half from the well head. You suspect the wires running from the well head to the tank are bad. First I would check continuity of the wires between the well head and the tank. To make sure that is the problem.

I would find another contractor as i would have thought that the wires would have been buried deep enough to keep vermin from them.

It most likely quicker to run another line then to look for the break in the old one.

Why do you all want to make it so complicated?

You do not need an electrical float switch at all.

Assuming that you still have power for the pump at the pump itself (lay a new cable yourself if needed!!! or correct that problem in some way....) , buy an adjustable pressure switch, install it on the pipe going to the tank between pump and tank. Connect the pump motor to the pressure switch contact so that if pressure exceeds a certain (adjustable) limit, the pump will be switched off.

Put a non return valve between the pump and the pressure switch to stop water backing up when the pump switches off.

Install a toilet float valve in the tank at the level you want the water to get to, this will block off the flow when this level is achieved. Good ones are adjustable as well if needed. All are dead cheap.

Adjust pressure switch so that when the float seals off the water supply, the increase in pressure shuts off the pump.

Forget radio and contacts, go the simple way.

By the way, this system is used in many caravans and similar, the expansion in the hoses supplying a small reservoir of pressure to even things out. Even some houses in Germany where the mains pressure is not enough to have a proper shower, "suck" the mains to improve pressure in a similar manner, they have a built in adjustable pressure switch and one way valve!

Some caravans have a small plastic air pressure vessel to keep a larger volume of air compressed if needed in a more rigid system, to stop any possibility of water hammer....I do not think that you will need it with 1.5 miles of pipe!!

You may (should) have a non return valve already installed if you are pumping uphill, to stop the pipe (and the pump) emptying itself every time the motor stops, you may need to check this part out before going shopping!!!

There may, or may not be, an easy cheap way to fix your problem.

The contractor that installed the well is professional enough to say he doesn't know exactly what the problem is.

Frankly, I don't either.

I don't know how old the pump is. Is the pump getting power or not?

Typically wires do not of a sudden go bad.

I first would ask the contractor to fix the problem for free if he discovers it was his fault that the pump quit working.

I think SparkStation knows what he is talking about when it comes to electricity.

Typically electricians are blunt and eccentric.

Do you know how to meter a circuit yourself?

It is likely that your electrician, or electrical contractor has a license to work.

It is likely he knows how long it takes to fix a problem if he has been working for a few years.

I doubt that the wire has gone bad. Sometimes it does happen that a wire is cut, or broken, but it is actually rare. Aluminum wire is more likely to be broken than copper.

If the pump is getting power from the wire, then the pump is suspect.

Of course the electrician does not know how to make the pump work without power.

A generator is an option to supply power to the pump without running a wire from the main breaker box.

The electrician may have thought of that on his way home, or later, but why should he call you with that option, since you seem to distrust him?

It takes what it takes and costs what it costs.

Just a small thought. How high is the well head compared to the storage tank? In other words could you manage the water level entirely at the well end?