Previous in Forum: Are we ready for colonisation of other Planets   Next in Forum: What is The Best New Private Airplane
Close
Close
Close
46 comments
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: El Lago, Texas, USA
Posts: 2640
Good Answers: 65

Throwing a Little More Fuel on the Pyre...

05/14/2008 2:28 PM

For anyone still interested in the science of global warming:

NASA Study Links Earth Impacts to Human-Caused Climate Change

http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2008/may/HQ_08127_Nature_Paper.html

"This is the first study to link global temperature data sets, climate model results, and observed changes in a broad range of physical and biological systems to show the link between humans, climate, and impacts," said Rosenzweig, lead author of the study.

Reply
Pathfinder Tags: global warming
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1790
Good Answers: 87
#1

Re: Throwing a little more fuel on the pyre...

05/14/2008 2:37 PM

"The team concluded observed global-scale impacts are very likely because of human-caused warming."

Seems they did establish a link between observed changes in the environment (ie. glaciers shrinking) with climate change, but the link to humans is still "very likely" and not proven...

Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: El Lago, Texas, USA
Posts: 2640
Good Answers: 65
#2
In reply to #1

Re: Throwing a little more fuel on the pyre...

05/14/2008 2:48 PM

Read it again - the "very likely" refers to the link between human-caused global warming and the observed impacts, not whether global warming is human caused.

Regardless,

I think "proof" is a high bar in an equation with this many variables and unknowns. Even a 99% confidence level doesn't constitute proof. The best you can do is "very likely" or "very likely not". And I think if the result of the study was "very likely not", it would be claimed as "disproving" the human link.

Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 70
Good Answers: 3
#16
In reply to #2

Re: Throwing a little more fuel on the pyre...

05/15/2008 8:31 AM

Funny, that's exactly the argument used against evolution & the Big Bang theory.

Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: El Lago, Texas, USA
Posts: 2640
Good Answers: 65
#18
In reply to #16

Re: Throwing a little more fuel on the pyre...

05/15/2008 9:48 AM

Brought to you by the same think tank.

Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11112
Good Answers: 918
#3

Re: Throwing a Little More Fuel on the Pyre...

05/14/2008 4:22 PM

The study does not, at least as shown in the article, link warming trends in the 20th century to human activity.

All it does is correlate temperature change to observed effects.

Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: El Lago, Texas, USA
Posts: 2640
Good Answers: 65
#4
In reply to #3

Re: Throwing a Little More Fuel on the Pyre...

05/14/2008 4:28 PM

The study does not, at least as shown in the article, link warming trends in the 20th century to human activity.

Presumably because the link between human activity and global warming is a given, at least to the scientists involved.

Reply
Anonymous Poster
#5
In reply to #4

Re: Throwing a Little More Fuel on the Pyre...

05/14/2008 4:46 PM

Presumably because the link between human activity and global warming is a given, at least to the scientists involved.

And that is where the flaw is...

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1790
Good Answers: 87
#6
In reply to #5

Re: Throwing a Little More Fuel on the Pyre...

05/14/2008 6:00 PM

Yeah, what they said!! (As Steve piles more fuel on the pyre)...

Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: El Lago, Texas, USA
Posts: 2640
Good Answers: 65
#7
In reply to #6

Re: Throwing a Little More Fuel on the Pyre...

05/14/2008 6:07 PM

More heat! Less light!

Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Biology - New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member APIX Pilot Plant Design Project - Member - New Member Hobbies - CNC - New Member Fans of Old Computers - ZX-81 - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Centurion, South Africa
Posts: 3921
Good Answers: 97
#8

Re: Throwing a Little More Fuel on the Pyre...

05/14/2008 6:34 PM

Humans cause pollution.

pollution will have an effect on weather

Therefore humans will have an effect on the weather.

BUT nature also causes pollution; We therefore can debate on the share of humans.

__________________
Never do today what you can put of until tomorrow - Student motto
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4448
Good Answers: 143
#9

Re: Throwing a Little More Fuel on the Pyre...

05/14/2008 8:20 PM

I really liked the US Interior Secretary's statement today. He put polar bears on the endangered species list, saying the polar ice had dramatically shrunk and predictions were it would continue to melt. But, he said, the melting was not due to warming. See, the over unity guys are right about thermodynamics being wrong; heat does not flow from hot to cold! To be fair, he didn't say whether the melting was due to lack of prayer in school or to gay marriage, but I look forward to that clarification.

__________________
"Well, I've wrestled with reality for 35 years, Doctor, and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd
Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: El Lago, Texas, USA
Posts: 2640
Good Answers: 65
#10
In reply to #9

Re: Throwing a Little More Fuel on the Pyre...

05/14/2008 10:51 PM

I thought it was just the gay polar bears who were endangered.

Reply
Anonymous Poster
#11

Re: Throwing a Little More Fuel on the Pyre...

05/15/2008 12:26 AM

I remember my father telling me that USGS had done a study in the seventies that showed the only identifiable corellation between CO2 levels were human population levels, so tell everyone to stop breathing so much or practice a little more safe sex.

Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sandy Eggo, Khalifornia US of A
Posts: 469
Good Answers: 1
#12

Re: Throwing a Little More Fuel on the Pyre...

05/15/2008 12:50 AM

This from the agency that will not allow footage to be shot out of the shuttle while the astronauts are asleep because of footage that showed possible ufo's floating around,well that and a "possible" shot from a star wars type of device shooting up into space from down under. It is a government agency and will say what it is told to say in order to keep its funds flowing in. Maybe to get a lil' more $$$$ in order to get to the angry red planet? Who knows? Not I, nor anyone else in this forum for that matter (no disrespect) . Maybe if I started to hear about the people that oppose the ideas of global warning changing sides and saying, "the sky is falling, the sky is falling!", I would start to subscribe to the idea... But until then I am going to say that maybe it is just a warm period that the sun is going through...

Cheerio

__________________
Madness takes its toll, please have exact change...
Reply
Anonymous Poster
#13

Re: Throwing a Little More Fuel on the Pyre...

05/15/2008 2:09 AM

There is no link between human activity and Global warning, this has been proven ove and over again - this is clearly just a myth that has been around for many years. The myth is used by anti establishment hippies so that they can live in trees and not wash.

Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Musician - New Member Hobbies - Car Customizing - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: FL Space Coast
Posts: 536
Good Answers: 14
#14
In reply to #13

Re: Throwing a Little More Fuel on the Pyre...

05/15/2008 7:25 AM

"The myth is used by anti establishment hippies so that they can live in trees and not wash."

ROTFLMAO

Damn hippies!

Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: El Lago, Texas, USA
Posts: 2640
Good Answers: 65
#20
In reply to #13

Re: Throwing a Little More Fuel on the Pyre...

05/15/2008 9:58 AM

Like I said in the OP - I'm offering this update to people interested in the science of global warming. For everyone else, there's always talk radio.

Reply
Power-User
United States - Member - American by birth,southern by the grace of GOD Popular Science - Weaponology - you can't carry that! Technical Fields - Technical Writing - why can't I use a pencil? Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 203
Good Answers: 2
#15

Re: Throwing a Little More Fuel on the Pyre...

05/15/2008 8:10 AM

I think the "play-station climatology" is not the best way to determine the future of our planet. Numbers can be made to say what is needed to say. Theses climatologist are the one's in the early 70's calling for a mini ice age by the year 2000. But I think the Y2K stuff got in the way. I believe though, that even with climate change and terrorism the Y3K computer problems will be even more scary.

__________________
The more complex the mind, the greater the need for the simplicity of play... If you think you can or think you can't you'll always be right
Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NW Ohio
Posts: 412
Good Answers: 25
#17

Re: Throwing a Little More Fuel on the Pyre...

05/15/2008 9:45 AM

The article concluded that more study was required in tropical areas. Translated, that means "your tax dollars funding pinheads doing junk science in sunny climes".

__________________
Goodness has nothing to do with it.
Reply
Power-User
United States - Member - American by birth,southern by the grace of GOD Popular Science - Weaponology - you can't carry that! Technical Fields - Technical Writing - why can't I use a pencil? Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 203
Good Answers: 2
#19
In reply to #17

Re: Throwing a Little More Fuel on the Pyre...

05/15/2008 9:58 AM

I would be more than happy to help the study of climate change on surf fishing. I would be willing to spend up to say 90 days in the gulf side of Florida to determine how the fishing is.But only if they were fully funding it. I would not want to be in that type of enviroment for nothing.

__________________
The more complex the mind, the greater the need for the simplicity of play... If you think you can or think you can't you'll always be right
Reply
2
Power-User

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: USA Soviet Socialist Dictatorship of Cook County& Illinois
Posts: 207
Good Answers: 15
#21

Re: Throwing a Little More Fuel on the Pyre...

05/15/2008 10:28 AM

I believe that this issue has become a political issue regardless of the true facts. I do not dismiss climate change. I do however, dismiss this rush to judgement driven by the enviornmentalists and the opportunistic exploitation of an issue by politicians to rationalize and justify institution of an irreversible taxation system designed to punish and slow the economy of the Free World.

What is more disturbing is that the majority of the people are so uneducated in the Natural History of the Earth that they cannot engage is sceptical analysis of this supposed "crisis". I am freightened that the public has been bamboozeled by the same media that has decided to collude with the politicians to further limit our freedoms and our ability to accumulate wealth.

Remember that the Media that collude with the politicians in their effort to increase your taxes and wrest the best healthcare system in the world from your control is the same media that is responsible for the rampant exploitation of the masses by convincing us that we "deserve" good credit, and we "deserve" credit even when we don't, and that we "deserve" to be absolved from the debt we take upon ourselves at the behest of the advertisers in that same media.

Wake up, Global warming is not a "crisis", the earth has too much thermal inertia. The Magma in the Globe itself has been cooling for Billions of years. Global Warming may indeed have to be addressed but the American infatuation with the NOW won't change the fact that we cannot reverse something thaat has been taking plaace since the 1890's in a year or two. Relax and address the problem with rationality not hysteria.

Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: El Lago, Texas, USA
Posts: 2640
Good Answers: 65
#22
In reply to #21

Re: Throwing a Little More Fuel on the Pyre...

05/15/2008 10:47 AM

This article is simply reporting the links between global warming and observed changes in the physical earth. I'm amazed that every single response has been political diatribe.

How does one read "the ice caps are melting" and hear "they want to socialize medicine!"?

As far as the media goes, I would posit that 99% of opinions on both sides of the issue are simply regurgitation of media - both from the right and the left. Very few people take the time to wade through 100's of studies and articles, on both sides, before attempting to make up their own minds.

I have my own opinion about the science, and it is based purely on the science, not the ramblings of either Rush Limbaugh or Al Gore. That's why I presented this article - to update the debate with the latest science, from an institution that I personally respect.

Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
2
Power-User

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: USA Soviet Socialist Dictatorship of Cook County& Illinois
Posts: 207
Good Answers: 15
#27
In reply to #22

Re: Throwing a Little More Fuel on the Pyre...

05/15/2008 12:21 PM

The heading of your contribution is "throwing a little more fuel on the pyre...." is it not?

Well you did "throw fuel on the pyre" so why are you surprised to see the pyre flare up?

Extending the fire analogy, the inflamitory nature of the responses is fully warranted.

The extension to healthcare is simply an expression of the frustration with the poor handling of most current issues by politicians jockying to acheive an advantage whether or not the issue is valid, a true crisis or a red herring. When the costs of our current fuel supply warrants it, the market will provide an alternate fuel. The artificial nature of the "alternate energy and fuel" price supports will only delay the ability of the marketplace to provide the answer.

Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: El Lago, Texas, USA
Posts: 2640
Good Answers: 65
#30
In reply to #27

Re: Throwing a Little More Fuel on the Pyre...

05/15/2008 2:37 PM

My interest is solely in a nice hot scientific debate. Politics is the opposite of science. It makes no more sense to me than my irrational boss - who won't let me use a particular component - because it's made by the French.

Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: USA Soviet Socialist Dictatorship of Cook County& Illinois
Posts: 207
Good Answers: 15
#31
In reply to #30

Re: Throwing a Little More Fuel on the Pyre...

05/15/2008 2:57 PM

I'm not sure I'd use anything from the French either but otherwise we seem to agree. I did a project here for them they tried to do everything in their power to stiff me.

I like the debate but I can rant too. All in good humor I assure you.

You certainly seem to have precipitated a debate.

Well done.

Reply
Power-User
United States - Member - American by birth,southern by the grace of GOD Popular Science - Weaponology - you can't carry that! Technical Fields - Technical Writing - why can't I use a pencil? Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 203
Good Answers: 2
#32
In reply to #30

Re: Throwing a Little More Fuel on the Pyre...

05/15/2008 2:59 PM

I do under stand that. It is very difficult to remove politics from anything. We are an international company with manufacturing equipment from all over the globe . I too am about the science . I like to use it to both prove and disprove my beliefs and opinions. Can science prove that GOD exist? I can say yes . Can it prove that the earth is round? Yes it has . It is not so much the question that is asked but also how it is asked . So we use a science that has been validated and proven and based on the findings there is a conclusion. With politics it is how every one feels. The human factor... it'll get you every time!

__________________
The more complex the mind, the greater the need for the simplicity of play... If you think you can or think you can't you'll always be right
Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11112
Good Answers: 918
#34
In reply to #30

Re: Throwing a Little More Fuel on the Pyre...

05/15/2008 4:46 PM

That would be wonderful. However, I contend that the whole subject of global climate change, or warming, or cooling is so steeped in politics and money that it is impossible to cull out accurate data out of the cesspool of political crap.

It will be an arduous process to weed out fact from pretense out of this mess and still maintain scientific objectivity.

Personally, I had resigned to take a wait and see attitude. I thought that at some point more evidence will surface that will point definitively one way or the other and it would cause opponents' arguments to crumble like a house of cards.

Unfortunately, that has not happened. In fact, the first hard evidence that global warming is not what is happening simply caused everyone to adapt new names for the process (i.e., climate change) so as to cover their butt no matter what happens.

What does appear clear to me is that we (as humans) understand far less on the subject than what we thought we knew. We are doomed to obfuscation until politics abandons climate change as a subject that can be used to manipulate people and leaves science to do what it does best.

With that in mind, does anyone have any ideas as to what we might use for the next pacifier for politicians? My choice would be UFOs or how about returning to the metric system? Yeah, we can move toward the metric system inch by inch again.

Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: USA Soviet Socialist Dictatorship of Cook County& Illinois
Posts: 207
Good Answers: 15
#42
In reply to #34

Re: Throwing a Little More Fuel on the Pyre...

05/16/2008 10:29 AM

Please don't suggest anything too cerebral, remember they ARE politicians. It will have to invlove the CHILDREN however.

Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11112
Good Answers: 918
#28
In reply to #22

Re: Throwing a Little More Fuel on the Pyre...

05/15/2008 1:22 PM

"A new NASA-led study shows human-caused climate change..."

That's right from the first sentence of the first paragraph! What people are doing with their response is challenging that any climate change is man-made or even predominantly man-made. My opinion is that the link has not been made that it is man-made.

Your opinion may be different, but the article doesn't simply report the link between global warming and observed changes. It charges that the observed changes are human driven as a matter of fact.

That is not objective science.

Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NW Ohio
Posts: 412
Good Answers: 25
#33
In reply to #22

Re: Throwing a Little More Fuel on the Pyre...

05/15/2008 4:08 PM

"Very few people take the time to wade through 100's of studies and articles, on both sides, before attempting to make up their own minds."

Granted, but most people who believe in it seem to be left of center and those who don't fall to the right of the political spectrum. Doesn't this cast suspicion on the whole scientific aspect? There are hundreds of millions in research grants being doled out by EU, US and UN to prove the premise. This doesn't sound any where near objective.

__________________
Goodness has nothing to do with it.
Reply
Anonymous Poster
#37
In reply to #21

Re: Throwing a Little More Fuel on the Pyre...

05/16/2008 6:49 AM

Morgan 123, I assume that you are not in the USA when you claim "The best healthcare system in the world" - is this like the Baseball World series ie only played by America and a little island off the coast called Cuba. Everyone knows that the Health Care system in the USA has been and is shambolic and only serves those with wealth. I am speaking from personal experience in this matter.

Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: USA Soviet Socialist Dictatorship of Cook County& Illinois
Posts: 207
Good Answers: 15
#38
In reply to #37

Re: Throwing a Little More Fuel on the Pyre...

05/16/2008 7:43 AM

Absolute non-sense. I am in the United States and I spent a month in the hospital in England in 1976 after a road accident. Subsequently, in the US I have been treated on about 10 occassions. There is no comparison. While the care in England was adequate, and the nurses were angels, the people of the United States would not tolerate the conditions in the hospital I was in. I was in a ward with 16 people on the ground floor of hospital built in 1850. There was one wheelchair for 16 patients because the other ONE had been stolen. To get an X-ray my 1940 vintage bed was rolled outside the building and down a cobblestone street to a room where an X-ray machine older than the one I used as an Industrial Radiographer in the 1960's. There was one television in the ward. The Senoir Doctor visited once a week, at which time, he prescribed whatever treatment was necessary. There was one intern on duty on the floor I was on the balance of the time.

The Media, in collaboration with the healthcare Socialists in the US, told us about how wonderful the care is in Russia before we really found out how poor it was and how the basic supplies were lacking in even the "Best Hospitals".

I stand by my assertion. Our system is the best because it profit driven which drive innovation which makes it even better.

Healthcare is available even to the poor without insurance, by law. You and I pay for it even to the extent of kidney transplants, heart transplants and dialysis. The poor may have to wait and stand in line in an emergency room as their cost of healthcare but it is not denied them .

I will admit there is malpractice and bad doctors but it is the exception and not the rule.

I'm sorry if you had a bad experience but if you can't pay you may have to wait and you may not be happy about it but you'll get the care you need. If you have a bad doctor, you have the option to go to another. That is the option here. Elsewhere, you may not have a choice.

It is expensive and it may seem to be overpriced but keep in mind that you're paying for those that don't pay as well as for the services you receive.

In fact, there is no such thing as free healthcare. You'll pay one way or another, either by high taxes or high prices. If you pay for it by high taxes in the form of socialized medicine, you'll have no choice of a doctor or a hospital.

I like it the way it is.

I hope you are well and that you take care of yourself so you don't need healthcare but if you do I hope you have a better experieence.

Reply
Power-User
United States - Member - American by birth,southern by the grace of GOD Popular Science - Weaponology - you can't carry that! Technical Fields - Technical Writing - why can't I use a pencil? Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 203
Good Answers: 2
#39
In reply to #38

Re: Throwing a Little More Fuel on the Pyre...

05/16/2008 7:50 AM

Yes! If you think health care if expensive now, wait and see how much it cost when it's free!!!

__________________
The more complex the mind, the greater the need for the simplicity of play... If you think you can or think you can't you'll always be right
Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: USA Soviet Socialist Dictatorship of Cook County& Illinois
Posts: 207
Good Answers: 15
#40
In reply to #39

Re: Throwing a Little More Fuel on the Pyre...

05/16/2008 8:51 AM

How right you are!

As an example, just look at your property tax bill and see how free your child's (even if you don't have a child) Free Education actually costs.

Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11112
Good Answers: 918
#41
In reply to #38

Re: Throwing a Little More Fuel on the Pyre...

05/16/2008 10:18 AM

The high cost of health care has a lot to do with insurance. The high cost of insurance has a lot to do with lawyers.

Right now the system is a legal lottery and while there are times when a lawsuit is justified, there many times where the system has failed and spirals out of control with juries dishing out large sums of money as cash awards.

There is no end in sight since the trial lawyer's lobby groups have a tight grip on lawmakers.

Reply
Guru
Hobbies - RC Aircraft - New Member Hobbies - Automotive Performance - New Member Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Fort Lauderdale Florida
Posts: 5708
Good Answers: 123
#43
In reply to #41

Re: Throwing a Little More Fuel on the Pyre...

05/16/2008 11:10 AM

Now you hit a sore nerve. I believe this is indeed a profit driven society we live in. And if I see an opportunity to increase my profit, I am going to take it. If that opportunity means that I only read what I choose to read from a scientific study, then that is what I will do. If it means that I need to hire my own group of experts to arrive at the conclusions I need to make my product, or service the best there is available, then that is what I need to do. Did anyone ever ask an air conditioning company to perform a "free" inspection, and have them say " your system is working well and needs no work?"

About criticism of lawyers. Did you ever notice the lawyer conferences are always held near large bodies of water? Did anyone ever hear of a lawyer being attacked by a shark? .......That ladies and gentlemen is professional courtesy in action.

__________________
Bob
Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sandy Eggo, Khalifornia US of A
Posts: 469
Good Answers: 1
#45
In reply to #37

Re: Throwing a Little More Fuel on the Pyre...

05/16/2008 9:36 PM

Why not grow a pair of huevos and lock in with your user name Guest?

__________________
Madness takes its toll, please have exact change...
Reply
Power-User
United States - Member - American by birth,southern by the grace of GOD Popular Science - Weaponology - you can't carry that! Technical Fields - Technical Writing - why can't I use a pencil? Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 203
Good Answers: 2
#23

Re: Throwing a Little More Fuel on the Pyre...

05/15/2008 11:06 AM

And so with going thru the data, and listening to experts on both sides most have made educated opinions on what is happening to the planet. It is everyone's understanding that things will be forced onto us no matter what the out come. Like they are wanting to halt the production incandescent bulbs because they are "bad".

My thought are just in the past 24 months the "Global warming" has changed to "global climate change". the very same folks in this study are predicting the temp increase of the planet and melting glaciers. But in fact if that happens the ocean saline levels will be diluted if this happens ans make the currents unstable and could cause the next ice age. Only in a movie could it happen in a few months but, I think the most every one can agree is cycles , cycles , cycles. (and sun CME's). We have just now gotten the technology to study the weather well. So we can't be expected to decipher the past 25,000 years of weather to predict the next 50. I am 100% all for keeping this world in the best condition I can to pass it on. I do not think we should food for fuel. We have been given the best products to generate all the fuel we need. Hydrocarbons. Separate that, you have hydrogen and carbon. we all know what can be done with carbon. And hydrogen for fuel.

__________________
The more complex the mind, the greater the need for the simplicity of play... If you think you can or think you can't you'll always be right
Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: El Lago, Texas, USA
Posts: 2640
Good Answers: 65
#24
In reply to #23

Re: Throwing a Little More Fuel on the Pyre...

05/15/2008 11:10 AM

I'm hoping that the ultimate outcome of all this will be a computer that can forecast the weather.

Reply
Power-User
United States - Member - American by birth,southern by the grace of GOD Popular Science - Weaponology - you can't carry that! Technical Fields - Technical Writing - why can't I use a pencil? Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 203
Good Answers: 2
#25
In reply to #24

Re: Throwing a Little More Fuel on the Pyre...

05/15/2008 11:24 AM

I could not agree with you more. I am still trying to think of what to wear next week

__________________
The more complex the mind, the greater the need for the simplicity of play... If you think you can or think you can't you'll always be right
Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: El Lago, Texas, USA
Posts: 2640
Good Answers: 65
#26
In reply to #25

Re: Throwing a Little More Fuel on the Pyre...

05/15/2008 11:31 AM

Not really an issue here - short sleeves for the next 6 months.

Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sandy Eggo, Khalifornia US of A
Posts: 469
Good Answers: 1
#35
In reply to #24

Re: Throwing a Little More Fuel on the Pyre...

05/15/2008 11:29 PM

Bwa hahahahahahahhhaaaaaa ahahahahahhhahahhhahahaaaa, cough, cough, gasp, whoa........ stop.... gasp, cough, cough... a computer that can do what? You mean they don't have that yet? Damn I must complain to my local news station

__________________
Madness takes its toll, please have exact change...
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4448
Good Answers: 143
#44
In reply to #24

Re: Throwing a Little More Fuel on the Pyre...

05/16/2008 2:31 PM

When I heard the news yesterday about California recognizing same-sex marriage, I quickly fed that into my computer climate model (It's written in LOGO and only runs on a TRS-80 so don't bother asking for the source code!) to see what effect it might have. Lo and behold, my model says that El Paso harbor will be ice-free year round by 2031. Some might say, "But El Paso has no harbor.", but my climate model said, "Just wait....".

__________________
"Well, I've wrestled with reality for 35 years, Doctor, and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd
Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: USA Soviet Socialist Dictatorship of Cook County& Illinois
Posts: 207
Good Answers: 15
#29
In reply to #23

Re: Throwing a Little More Fuel on the Pyre...

05/15/2008 2:05 PM

Extremely well said! I say aye!

Reply
Anonymous Poster
#36

Re: Throwing a Little More Fuel on the Pyre...

05/16/2008 2:29 AM

This issue like so many other issues cannot be seperated from Politics (The scientests told the US government that there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq-but did they listen? Hell no, they put a spin on it, blamed the French and everyone else that did not agree with them. The French, Germans, English,Russians, Chinese etc are no better when it comes to putting spin on things either). One company won't use components because they are French - no doubt based on Fact and not Politically driven !! Ask the Chinese about Tibet and see the spin they put on that. Ask Mugabe about what he is doing to his own people and listen to the spin. Ask the Russians about Chechnya and listen to the spin. Ask the Chechnians about the Russians and listen to the spin.

Unfortunately it is Spin that the world runs on and not Fact - hence we have this situation with "Global Warming" or "Climate Change" or whatever it is called.

The exact same thing is happenning here, there are political/financial forces at play that simply out weigh the need for fact. If this was left to the scientests then this would be a rationale discussion but unfortunately rationale discussions do not make good head lines. Well one one hope that it would be a rationale discussion.

This is not an anti US rant that I am going on - we all look to the US for guidance and rationale but this has been seríously lacking in the last number of years. Equally this issue (whether true or not - I really dont know) surely cannot be resolved by one nation alone. If in fact this is an actual issue then it should be addressed on a Global front.

All of the persons(or most of them including myself) using this forum have a backgound in science but yet you can see the divergance of opionion on this matter - how in hell are people without this background going to make up their minds on this issue and similiar issues : They will listen to the media and the group with the biggest wallet can then manipulate the media to get their point across. This is the case in all countries, whether the group happens to be pro-government, anti-government, pro-issue or anti-issue really does not matter and the thing that gets lost in all of this is the Fact behind the issue because they want to get their point across at the expense of the opposing sides. I suppose this is human nature ?

Sorry if went on a bit and please do not see this as an anti US rant, it really is not.

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Earth. England/America -the birthplace of the C. S. A. - anywhere I imagine -home.
Posts: 773
Good Answers: 33
#46

Re: Throwing a Little More Fuel on the Pyre...

05/18/2008 12:55 AM

There is no connection to manmade warming, it simply shows that there is warming occurring. What portion is natural and what is from Man is debatable. The Earth has been naturally warming since the 1600's. As the oceans warm CO2 is released. Volcanoes produce more CO2 than people. So the GW crowd cites CO2 levels at Mauna Loa an island where there are active volcanoes in the middle of an ocean as proof that people are emitting too much CO2.

Polar bears have been around since the climate was even warmer than today. Like other bears they are omnivores and will eat almost anything. Because there are few animals to hunt in the Arctic they specialize in seals, but they eat birds, eggs, small animals, plants and even caribou. As the Arctic warms there will be more animals living there and in time the polar bears will adapt to those new food sources.

I would love to grow tropical fruits in my yard as Zone 8 is too warm or too cold for too many fruits from other Zones. Too hot for the plants from the northeastern US and too cold for oranges, bananas and others that can grow in Hawaii or Florida. I wouldn't mind if the world cooled, except that I grew up to hate snow.

__________________
No technology is so obsolete that it won't work. A stone knife still can kill you as dead as a laser.
Reply
Reply to Forum Thread 46 comments
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

AAndy (1); Anonymous Hero (4); Anonymous Poster (5); beriberi (2); bhankiii (10); bob c (1); Ferris (3); Hendrik (1); IanR (1); logix101 (6); Morgan 23 (7); Steve S. (2); Taganan (1); TVP45 (2)

Previous in Forum: Are we ready for colonisation of other Planets   Next in Forum: What is The Best New Private Airplane

Advertisement