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Condensate Pumps

06/25/2008 6:13 AM

Does anybody have an opinion of steam powered condensate pumps vs electrical pumps.

We are looking at fitting 10 new condensate pump stations on a plant and are trying to find the best solution. Steam and electrical power supply is no problem. The area is fairly "wet" as in there is quite a bit of water sprayed on the floor and sprayed to keep equipment clean.

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#1

Re: Condensate pumps

06/25/2008 8:05 AM

"The Jury is out." Given the presence of "wet" areas, then steam-powered pumps might be a better choice on this occasion, provided there is sufficient steam available.

Remember that justifying the investment in condensate pumps can be achieved by considering the savings to be made in:

  • effluent volumetric disposal costs
  • incoming water volumetric charges
  • lower incoming water treatment volumetric costs
  • lower volumetric heating costs (as the condensate is returned hot)

Remember also that even the condensate that is rejected at the hotwell has a residual value, and may have applications as cooling tower make-up water, for example, instead of using town mains at a much higher conductivity.

(been there, done it, secondhand T-shirt now on eBay....)

"Thrifty-most at the bankey-balancer", as Stanley Unwin once said.

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#2

Re: Condensate Pumps

06/25/2008 11:24 PM

If the steam pressure fluctuates below the minimum pressure needed to meet the stated capacity, then an electric pump with TEFC motors might be better suited.

However, some non-electric pumps can be driven off of compressed air if there are fluctuating steam pressures.

If long term reliability is a concern, there is a non-electric pump that has a 5-year/5-million cycle warranty.

Some of the benefits of a non-electric pump are:

- can return condensate at higher temperatures than a traditional electric pump

- are not damaged by failed open steam traps

- no mechanical seal failures

- most have integral digital cycle counters that can be tied into an Energy managemeng system for tracking total volume of condensate returned.

- easy to troubleshoot & repair

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#12
In reply to #2

Re: Condensate Pumps

11/26/2009 7:18 AM

You mentioned in one of your old posts to me that there is a "non-electric pump that has a 5-year/5-million cycle warranty" for condensate return. Can you give me the details of the manufacturer and the type of pump? Thanks

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: Condensate Pumps

11/26/2009 9:54 AM
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#3

Re: Condensate Pumps

06/26/2008 12:21 AM

From the field;

With out a doubt removing the steam operated pumps is a good thing...however criminal it is to discard history. I would run your numbers using Watson Mc Daniel Pressure Motive pump/trap sizing. Armstrong also sell a similar product.

If you would like contact John Smagala he is my design/process engineer that assist you with sizing and prices.

johnsmagala@sbcglobal.net

Mike

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#4

Re: Condensate Pumps

06/26/2008 12:23 AM

Since we need to pump the condensate very near to boiling temp, a centrifugal pump will need very high positive head , so that there is no cavitation.

A positive displacement Piston type pump driven by Steam or electricity is better option and would need lesser positive head. Some makers have condensate collection and pumping skid which can be placed to get condensate from steam Traps.

Steam Pump is better option as it does not have to depend on availability of Elctricity for condensate pumping. Particularly if the Utility line fails.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Condensate Pumps

06/26/2008 1:05 AM

The pumps that I have recomended will perform well in your applications.

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Condensate Pumps

06/26/2008 9:08 AM

It sounds like the source pressure of the condensate is high (possibly over 100 psig).

If this is the case and there is a need for low pressure steam nearby, or some water pre-heating, then you may be able to utilize the energy in the flash steam, and return your condenaste at high temperatures.

Creating a closed system provides the following benefits:

- reduces steam consumption at the boiler

- reduces therm usage

- reduces water usage

- reduces boiler emissions

- increases % of condensate recovery because flash steam is not lost to atmosphere

The following links provide further information to clarify the above point:

http://www.spiraxsarco.com/downloads/case-studies/demulder.pdf

http://www.spiraxsarco.com/resources/cad/applications/condensate-flash-steam/preview/flash-steam.asp?drawing_id=319

To size & select you can go to www.snapfour.com to size and select the right unit for your application.

Good luck on improving condensate recovery, and doing something good for the environment.

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#7

Re: Condensate Pumps

06/27/2008 11:08 AM

Does anybody have an opinion of steam powered condensate pumps vs electrical pumps - There is no pump in the world that can handle cavitation at high temperatures of condensate over 90C and hence, recommended to give heights to avoid this. The only pump that can handle 100C without pump cavitation and without any moving parts or electricity are "Condensate Power Pumps". See the photo on my avtar. You can go web sites: duconems.com, spirax sarco, armstrong, Watson Mcdaniel, Gestra, ITT, Yarway etc., for these type of condsensate power pumps.

I manufacture and use them alot and they are simply "fit & forget" pumps, robust requiring only 3 kg steam/1000 kg condensate pumped, pump when there is something to pump, stops when nothing, not hampered by submerging in pits or a lot of water spraying to keep equipments clean etc.

You can couple them as Duplex to handle upto 15000 kg/hr capacities.

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Condensate Pumps

06/27/2008 12:39 PM

Thank you this is what I was trying to say Thanks for the clarification.

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Condensate Pumps

06/27/2008 12:48 PM

I would run your numbers using Watson Mc Daniel Pressure Motive pump/trap sizing. Armstrong also sell a similar product.

Sorry miketheboilerguy I did not see your post and just replied steam.

Yes you are 100% right first.

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Condensate Pumps

06/27/2008 1:41 PM

I am always happy to see the same answer from another direction.

I am just glad I did not get the claws os the CAT or something.

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Condensate Pumps

06/28/2008 12:43 AM

They don't call you Mike " the Boiler Guy" for nothing.

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chakraborty ranabir (1); ducon (4); Dweezle (2); miketheboilerguy (4); PWSlack (1); Steam (1)

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