Chinese stainless steel alert

Could you provide some substantiatable information? Otherwise this post is just heresay.

Well the stainless steel fork I used at lunch the other day was made in China and was magnetic. My sunglasses are held on with tiny magnets and they stuck to this piece of steel. The last I checked, stainless steels used in flatware are typically 300-series meaning they are Austenitic and therefore not magnetic.

Absolutely. I'm not saying there are no issues with Chinese manufactured materials, I just think we're all better off if the original poster expanded on his/her experience.

To answer his/her question (somewhat), nothing useful will be done if specific instances aren't reported and verified. We can't just say "all Chinese products are bad." A) It's not true, B) Even if it were, Americans are not going to stop buying materials from China (they are ubiquitous through all of our commercial/industrial endeavors).

So, we have to act on specific instances based on factual, verifiable evidence, and make sure that the companies involved - both the Chinese manufacturer and the US contractor/distributor/retailer are aware of the quality issue. Then, they can either fix the problem or risk the wrath of the consumer base.

Bricktop, your comment that Japanese products were once the same as Chinese products are now is simply not true.

Japanese never deliberately put poison in toothpaste or pet food or children's toys like the Chinese do in order to save money.

Japanese transistor radios and motorcycles of the 60's, right from the get-go, were decent quality, reliable and they were aiming for higher quality all the time.

Japanese admittedly started from a weak base after the war and had to build on that but they never cheated and deceived like the Chinese are doing every day.

You must be a base, despicable someone.

Chinese people havnt killed your people with a gun in hand in your country!

Why you hate our chinese people? Our products kill your mothers or your sistors?

Any europan and American know the products made in japan in 30--40's last century equal to RUBBISH!

Go to school to study a little history.

Hi cnpower

The vast majority of major consumers are now too young to remember the '40s and 50's. Those of us that do remember, like myself, already bought most of our 'stuff'. I haven't looked at a history book in around 50 years, so I have no idea whether the books even mention the quality issues.

I have no idea what fraction of the products from China are involved, but reports of children's items painted with lead-based paint, both animal and human food products intentionally made cheaper by the addition of non-food substances, and other similar problems have received VERY wide distribution here in the US the last several years. It may only be a small percentage, but the rest of Chinese imports suffer from the bad reputation.

My personal experience has mostly to do with tools. Unfortunately, I have had generally poor results with Chinese tools. At this point, I will gladly pay twice as much for a tool made in the USA or Europe, if a comparable one is available.

This certainly does NOT mean that I hate Chinese people in general. I am quite happy to have you here on CR4! Please do what you can to alert Chinese officials that quality and safety are at least as important as price to educated Americans.

--My personal experience has mostly to do with tools. Unfortunately, I have had generally poor results with Chinese tools. At this point, I will gladly pay twice as much for a tool made in the USA or Europe, if a comparable one is available

Poor man, I dont know how to speak to you ?

In the modern society, none of us keep out from tool to do things. but I can only telll you that different job needs different tool or instrument, this is understanded even by child.

I give your a very simple example. I measure a object length with a scale, and this scale can be different precision, some of them can be used for rough things, other can use for fine one.

one micrometer can buy lots of student use set square. laser gauge can buy lots of micrometer. you cannt image how the result if you measure an precision object in the micro level with a student scale.

you use a not bad head here, this made me recall a chinese old story: Tianji raced horse. LoL, do one out there knows this famous chinese ancient story?

You seem so anxious to squash stories that make Mainland China look bad.

I have seen from several sources that the Chief Plumbing Code Official of Michigan, a state in US of A, has banned the use of Chinese cast iron pipe within Michigan due to quality issues. You may review the state of Michigan website, the Cast Iron Pipe organization, and various plumbing trade magazines for one side of the information.

Basically, the quality control reports that were supplied from the US pipe distributor looked suspicious and there was no faith on the part of the Michigan code review committee that the Chinese manufacturer's could supply believable QC data.

I guess you might be a lazer. review my threads you will not put out the stupid words.

I can understand the things you metioned. it might be true or not. But I shall metion you that why not inquire that businessman to see if he is a cheater?

Lots of good quality products of such pipe made in china! why dont you buy it whereas instead of buy such bed things? is the buyer stupid or a cheater as well together to cheat investors?

What material pipe do you want? stainless steel? spiral welding pipe or others? how much presuure? how long ? I can help you with it. no problem. however I know these larger enterprises. I can offer you the best quality products. buyers will be satisfied with the products.

"Poor man, I dont know how to speak to you ?"

I don't consider myself poor in any of the many possible connotations. I'm not rich either, but I'm working on that...

Obviously, English is a second language for you, but you do better in English than I could ever imagine myself speaking Chinese!

Just this afternoon I bought a couple of putty knives, one flexible and one stiff. The choices were: made in China: $1.99 ea, made in USA: $4.98 ea. The blades of the ones made in China were rectangular and clearly stamped from sheet metal, then molded into plastic handles with no finishing of thickness, edges or corners. The ones made in USA are rounded on the sides, tapered in thickness, polished on all edges, and held in the much more comfortable handle with a rivet. There was no high quality Chinese product to choose, and there was no cheap sheet-metal one from any other country than China. I gladly paid two and a half times as much for the quality product!

English may be your native langual, so I dont know if you deliberate to pretend a woodhead or feel chagrin?

In every dictionary, poor man not only mean the poor or a man without any thing to live but mean some people who act like a naive, speaking very simple words or has very simple thinkings. their words are always getting away from title. hehe, dont angry.

I dont think I shall speak any of you are a poor, as you know if you own 1000usd means that it equals to my nearly 7000 RMB. hehe. I can work very hard for two or three years for the number. hehe, now you will enjoy hearing the words.

What is putty knive? look into dictionary, it seems use for building worker? you may be use it for decorating your room occassionally.

Why so angry? Chinese stainless is crap, you know it, I know it. But it is getting better.

Also, the Chinese showed the world how to handle a major earth quake.

My hat is off to all the people who put the country ahead of them selves.

"The sage does nothing, yet leaves nothing undone".

We were never flooded with rubbish Japanese products like we are being flooded with rubbish and dangerous Chinese products.

>Chinese people havnt killed your people with a gun in hand in your country!<

Do you think that because of that that you are entitled to take it out on the rest of the world by defrauding and stealing IP and providing sub standard products?

There's no need for you to get emotional because we are dealing with facts and the facts are that a lot of Chinese products like the stainless steel mentioned in the original post are sub standard, some are poisonous like the toothpaste and pet food and children's toys were, and some are downright dangerous like brake pads that are made with sawdust and grass.

I could go on with many more examples but I would like to ask you, are those the things you are getting emotional about defending?

So you mean it really is a sore point with the Chinese then?

I would never have guessed.

It's been my experience that usually when I discuss fakes and counterfeit products with Chinese people they usually have a smirk on their face, they don't usually get emotional about defending them, they normally think it's funny.

---and stealing IP

I really supprise if you are making a fun? you metioned again and again chinese steal IP, what are you talking about? Do you know what is steal? what is IP?

Do need me to teach you here what is internet, what is osi? what is tcp what is ip?

Do you know what is open system? face to public? Our chinese has another characteristic that we like to be others master, if you hope to learn from us. We like to tell students all what we know. its free. dont worry. I dont keep secret as well.

Methinks thou do protest too much.

Please Re-read my post #54. Just because information is available on the internet, does NOT mean that information is legal to share and use without paying fees. The better service manuals give enough information that a smart person or team could reverse engineer the product and produce it without great difficulty, but that does NOT make it legal to do so.

One of the reasons that products made in the USA cost more is the fact that US companies must spend large amounts of money to research whether others have already patented their supposedly new concept, and if not to obtain the patent (or trademark, or Copyright, ...).

Even relatively simple devices can cost millions to develop into a salable product. If someone can take the result of that development, and produce the device without paying the development cost, obviously they can produce the product at a much lower price - THAT is STEALING.

Thats very complex issue. all of the world will be faced with the problem. not only you and I and this forum room can solve.

thats why some people will make their things as know how rather than patient.

patent not patinet. hehe

always make such mistake.

hehe , this is a very good chance for somebody to attack me.

cnpower,

IP = intellectual property in this instance not internet provider. Sorry know mostly Bad words in Chinese, not fit for here.

Brad

Is it right?

But in the field of internet , we call that supplier is ISP, not IP, whereas IP means internet protocol. a protocol for internet communication.

upon its lay is TCP. right? then applicatin documents like FTP, EMAil(SMTP), TELNET ETC. right?

ask, what is

Sorry know mostly Bad words in Chinese, not fit for

wonder what you are talking about? where is wrong? what is propaganda? what propaganda did I mke? point out.

truth? what truth you told? All chinese products are the worst products in the world is truth? what joke Im mking? I laugh at those who dont know tech, but pretend a specialist to teach others. review these threads over and over, do you know what they are talking about?

any fctory name they point out? waht products name do they point out? all is imputed to all chinese.

Do yu know there are lots of foreigner controlled enterprise in China!!!

if the responsibilty problem does go wrong, are they mostly like theirs or ours?

cannt you say those men are not stupid idiot?

How do you explain this fact?

any fctory name they point out? waht products name do they point out? all is imputed to all chinese.

I would be very interested is hearing your comments to the issue that I brought to this forum. It is very specific, and well documented. Thank you for your reply.

CN's a good guy. He's honorable and dedicated, and a valuable, and unselfish member here.

It's the buyers responsibility to purchase products of sufficient quality to meet their needs. Case in point, I'm an avid backpacker. I head into the wilderness for many days at a time. My 2 man tent cost about $400. My life can depend on the functionality and dependability of my equipment.

Now I can buy a 2 man tent for $25. That would probably be more than good enough if I was using it in the backyard for the kids to play in. It might even be OK for a camping trip or two, but is this the tent you want to be in during a thunderstorm on a side of a mountain, at night, 30 miles from your car?

Don't blame $25 tent manufacturer for putting that product on the shelf. The buying public put it there. They wanted to spend the least amount of money possible. And after all, it looks just like the $400 one.

So, I don't buy much without doing some research. It's so easy to do these days.

You're right on.

You get what you paid for.

In order for a company to put something on the shelf for a cheaper price then their competitors they had to cut some corners somewhere.

For some it might be cuts in overhead but for others it's cuts in material.

The Yugo went for about $3000 new in 1988. They were about $6000 cheaper then the next cheapest model car.

You don't see many Yugos on the road anymore but you do see a lot of Honda's and Toyota's on the road from that era and you paid a bit more for them.

I just bought a 2007 Yugo, I'm restoring it.

There where a lot of great features on the Yugo, like the rear window defogger, kept your hands warm while pushing it.

Another positive feature was they were small so they were easier to push. Unlike having to push a Hummer when it runs out of gas.

we call that supplier is ISP, not IP, whereas IP means internet protocol. a protocol for internet communication

You are correct ISP- Internet Service Provider, IP- Internet Protocol.

But in the context used earlier by others they were talking about Intellectual property( patents, copyrights, trademarks, and the like)

Brad

pls check time. at our time zone is 15：00 oclock, what s yours local time?

It was bed time. about midnight

Brad

oh, uv,

I originally though they were talking about heck who got a cheat ip address to steal some information. this often see on the internet .

as you metioned the intellectual property, I hve to respond once again, although I return a reply at front.

this is a heavy troublem to every country leaders. every country in the world , more or lesss exist these problem. chinese has a fable: escape back 50 steps' soldier laughs at one that back 100 steps

it s not us who come here can solve. I can also do nothing about it.

IP = Intellectual Property.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/intellectual_property

I assume you're being deliberately obtuse.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/obtuse

Everyone knows what IP means when it's mentioned in the same sentence as CHINESE and STEALING.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/stealing

I m treated unjustly by you. Where are those who know the ip is intellectual property? I havnt really thought of that word yet, but only internet IP. we deal with it, speak it even in our oral chinese in ordinary routine. use it in our engineering project...

I absolute believe that there are very most people who know ip is internet communication protocol than those who know its intellectual property.

Dare you bet on it with me?

Chinese feast! in Bejing. or France feast! in Paris.

Hi, annaesthetised I know you visited this thread this afternoon, but I wonder why you dont respond to the bet? Im waiting for the Feast!

It's been my experience that usually when I discuss fakes and counterfeit products with Chinese people they usually have a smirk on their face, they don't usually get emotional about defending them, they normally think it's funny.

I rest my case.

wow, it seems you can speak chinese? wonderful. many japanese intellect can speak chinese and at least can write chinese words. because there are still more than 1000 chinese characters have been remained in japannese so far. back up to 100 years, every chinese can read japanese documents. no problem. so many chinese style building in japan. From history viewpoint. we know many japanese are from china. Look for family book to see if your ancestor was from China?

you may now be in the west some country, but evindually you have japan's financial support.

Back to our topic again. I wonder what kinds of chinese did youi talk with? labour or peasants in the field? or vendor stands on the street?

Need I to repeat my answer again and again to the question?

Funny thing about this thread is that it was talking about stainless steel being inferior. Yes, or No? You cnpower have made it personal since you first dropped into the middle of this thread. You can quote and quote all you want to quote about feasting in china or france. You need to understand something... And it is this: These are words and ideas. And you know what? They aren't causing you any physical harm at all are they? Then why, oh why do you need to argue and take this so, so personally? This is about INDUSTRY not let's be down on cnpower. Does it matter if anyone logged in but did not respond to your remark(s)? Respond all you want to this... I am going to be ENJOYING the 4th of JULY, our IDENPEDENCE DAY but I will be waiting for an invite to go to france that I will gladly decline.

Cheers and God Bless America

Not me deliberately make this thread off topic, some stupids guid us to this path, this subroutine. I can do nothing about it. I hope to dicuss what the stainless steel can do in our ordinary living thing.

Oh, I forget to congratulate to your independence day. 200 years ago, under lead of great Washinton, american people fought bravely against english colonist, and won the victory and have a equal, freedom country which is turely belong to themself.

In the war II, amercan people standed on the side of our chinese defeated japan aggression.

today, china almost become american's rear processing sites.

But the most attraction is still chinese feast. I think I will win the feast for you all who are interesting in it.

But that person keep away from respond and escape. its pity. it doesnt matter.

if there is chance, I can ask you all for our chinese banquet. after all , I hvnt got too poor to pay for the banquet.

cnpower, I think you missed the meaning of my post... All I was trying to say was that what anyone here on this site was saying ultimately doesn't matter to your everyday existence, right? No. At work, there are a few people that I can't really stand the sight of, but you know what there is nothing that I can do (short of quitting my job) about my annoyance. The one thing that I do know is this: at the end of the day I do not have to go home with them!!!! You are that much farther away from this situation in that we are only communicating in cyberspace. Yes or No? Don't let the outlooks that others have piss you off, get you mad, whatever you want to call it! Life is too short.

Ferris

Chinese feast is not for everyone. dont make day dream too much.

Today is the 70 anvesary of anti-japanese war broken out. the fly tiger members, the USA flight team of that time who came to china and supported chinese present lots of things, which they fight with japanese and captured, with our chinese musium today. We are reporting the history. American people are great still. we of cause congratulate their day.

Where will one go is himself's freedom. anyone will like to say what he likes to say. slob said rough words. we can do nothing about it. smoke and wine are not good food.

Life is beautiful, many of us can do lots of thing for world people as well as for themself. some stupids can only abuse when they drink a lot like a mad.

We all live a good life, no wonder he is rich or poor, if he works hard. lots of job need one to do.

if some gentleman wish to discuss tech, we like to do, as it were, the forum is for tech not for politcs.

if someone see nothing with colour glassess or blind glasses, we will tell they how to do. but if he speaks or acts as a mad, we shall escape at first.

many people get new job, others lost their job. its pity. someone glad, someone worry。

Im out of work as well.

but I dont drink. I dont lodge complain. its no use.

Chinese killed many Americans in Korea when China invaded Korea.

another stupid idiot ocur, who will metion history.

show your stupid fact to us at first. hehe.

Pay attention. this is peace forum, not war. this is talking about science tech. not how to make gun.

if you are stupid countryman. get away. if you hope to talk history, go to oter forum. I shall teach you what is 8 countries militry union agressed into Bejing in Qing dynasty. what is japaness pirates harried chinese offshore in Ming dynasty. What is war II?

What is nomad nation agressed agricultural nation in history. too much what is what.

hehe. I dont know if you can learn so much titles.

Another stupid idiot ocurs, who will metion history.

show your stupid fact to us at first. hehe.

Pay attention. this is peace forum, not war. this is talking about science tech. not how to make gun.

if you are stupid countryman. get away. if you hope to talk history, go to oter forum. I shall teach you what is 8 countries militry union agressed into Bejing in Qing dynasty. what is japaness pirates harried chinese offshore in Ming dynasty. What is war II?

What is nomad nation agressed agricultural nation in history. too much what is what.

hehe. I dont know if you can learn so much titles.

I am with you.

I agree with cnpower on this.

That was a stupid statement to make and it doesn't belong here.

No, the Japanese never deliberately put poison in toothpaste. Mainly because in the era bricktop refers to American manufacturers would never even have considered purchasing products made outside the US if they could be made here. Now our greed to have every new gadget, etc. has made it economical (not necessarily moral) to send our jobs overseas. Make no mistake about it, it is all about greed. Projection: Longer term we will pay dearly for our unwillingness to look after the common good.

He's not referring to Japan doing any terrorist activity.

After WWII, during Japan's reconstruction, all the products made in Japan were considered second rate.

Japan wanted to break the mold and and Edward W. Deming introduced them to Quality Management. Japan picked up on it and ran with it with a projection of about 5 years to see if there were any results and Japan experienced significant results after only a couple years.

China Manufacturers are hiring consultants to get up to speed with the manufacturing world, that doesn't mean all the manufacturers have hired consultant yet.

They will eventually or they will be put out of business by their competitors that have taken steps to improve.

Chris, to add to your comments, I remember back in the late 1940's when Japanese imports were disasterously poor quality. Soon, people stopped buying anything "made in Japan". The Japanese got around this by founding an industrial city named Usa. Then, their products could ne stamped or imprinted: Made in USA. Marketing!

I dont know if you hve educated?

Do you know product and material are from different address?

you see the words, made in China, so you say all is from China?

if I see you wear a cloth made in africa. you must be very angry at I saying you are an african. hehe.

The pure stairless steel material cannt affected by magnetic field, which is well known by us all. but stairless iron will be magnitized. with this critical, we often detect that if the products is made of stairless steel on the market.

As I know so far, most stairless steel material used for flatware are imported from othe country, not produced by china itself.

Besides, you hve to check out how much you purchase it? different price has different quality.

Go to school again, PLEASE.

If the product is critical to human life. The quality department of your company has the responsibility to make sure it meets all the requirements to ensure the product safety. May be you are the person in your purchasing department had not consider the critical requirements and decided to purchase the sub-standard product? Just open your mouth start ranting does not help your future situation. As many have mentioned, there are many quality grade for each product from different country. Buyers Beware ! is always the rule of thumb. May be is your company wants to make ( or save) a fast buck and purchase the sub-standard parts. Always look to oneself for improvements with lessons learned before blindly blaming.

Just be cool and careful with your words, it hurts and worked up people without getting any closer to any remedy.

If a product says Made In China then it is the Chinese manufacturer who is responsible for the grade of material that goes into that product.

That means that if the Chinese put poison from another country into Chinese toothpaste and then export that toothpaste to other countries, as has been done, on the record, it is not the fault of the country where the poison came from, it is the fault of the manufacturing country's people, ie, Chinese.

Same with steel, the country where the steel came from is irrelevant to this discussion, it is the product's manufacturing country and people that has to have responsibility for the materials that go into the product, ie, Chinese.

Look at your logic? even a child will laugh at your words! Hve you ever though, chinese people use their toothpast everyday as well. This makes it sound like an odd story in which chinese will kill everyone in the world include theirself. My god.

Damnit talk about screwing over your countrymen and women and (more importantly) their children......Terrible, terrible indeed.GA for being enlightened about this stuff 'cause I wouldn't have had a clue this was going on....

Ferris

Neednt shift out topic, we are waiting for wining your chinese or franch feast.

They are all delicious, but I prefer to chinese feast.

The pure stairless steel material cannt affected by magnetic field, which is well known by us all.

Stainless is not a one metal, it is a composite or alloys of metals. No such thing as Pure Stainless, there are grades.

phoenix911

wow, I seem to forget the word of " alloy". you really speak like a book.

What is stainless? what is " pure stainless" ? its really not a thing! so its not a metal as well, but only a word, an adjective ,where is grade? only stainless steel is a kind of metal.

I think you'd better teach me how the stainless spring steel composite are?

it might be like this:0.08％-0.15％C；0.01％-0.60％Si；0.02％-0.60％Mn；0.01％-0.03％P；0.002％-0.03％S；12％-14％Cr；0.8％-1.5％Mo and Fe.

you cfan also tell me how to treat this material. can you?

Didn't want to get in the physical metallurgical properties with the compositions or sometimes I'll call the recipe (with heat treatment) all depends what you are going to use it for.

A lot of things are involved in these, cost (usually the biggest factor), performance, environment,….ect…. and you take these and balance out what is acceptable. At times costs override the more important factors, and this happens is when problems would start.

phoenix911

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but 304 SS can be magnetic. I'm still new to engineering and last year I ordered some SS flanges for a project (pipe spec called for SS). I kept the extra flanges in my office, and after the others were installed, I happened to run a magnet by the extras on accident. The magnet stuck so I became worried but a contractor with years of experience let me know that 304 SS can be magnetic.

This website I've linked explains that cold working 304 SS can cause it to be magnetic.

http://www.azom.com/details.asp?ArticleID=1140

Also, it seems that making generalizations about China. Personally, I think that if China produces poor quality products and your company has a QC/Inspection department of some kind, the fault lies on your QC department to research the quality of China's products. If everyone is seeing the same poor quality from China then eventually consumers will quit buying those products and China will be forced to adapt or collapse.

The 300 series SS can be somewhat magnetic.

Let's start from the beginning,Flatware that is being used in your restaurants is in most cases made from 18-8 stainless not 304 stainless. 18-8 is magnetic as is 15-5,17-4 stainless. 304 stainless can be slightly magnetic and is more costly than your 18-8 stainless.I tend to agree the Chinese have been extremely lax in there quality control,whether it is intentional or ignorance,trading with China I think in my humble opinion it is a combination of both.Their is a kink in there armor,I always thought we could not compete with China,now I know they are vulnerable because some Chinese manufactures got greedy or simply did not care.They will recover,but they will hvae to play on a more even playing field which will benefit the rest of the manufactures around the world. They will have to raise there standard of pay,working conditions,and so on,thus incurring more cost structure,in line withe the rest of the world.This era in history is very regrettable but hopefully the Chinese will learn from this.

My Carpenter Stainless Steels manual lists type 420 as the grade commonly used for cutlery, surgiclal instruments etc, but even austenitic grades will become magnetic when cold worked.

We use SS T430 Brite in some of our applications.

T430 Brite is mild steel with stainless steel laminated on each side.

It still considered a SS product.

The 400 series is considered to be a magnetic stainless steel family.

Do you mean to tell me that the country that allows manufacturers to continually make toys with lead in their paint, to send "tainted" feed for our animals, to send toys out for children to play with that contain some of the ingredients for the "date rape drug" in them etc., etc. Is allowing non SS products to be sold as SS products? Maybe the QC person (people?) should be given an unlimited $$$ Starbucks card so that they can stay awake. I mean obviously someone is asleep at the wheel. Bring that stuff back home... the manufacturing process that is.

Cheers

In China products of different qualities are made. If some body is sourcing from China , it is his responsibility to see that he gets quality products. The Specifications have to be correct. Quality Check be there in place as you have in your factory.

The Company's/Buyers who blame China first search inwards that did they have the proper checks and quality specifications ?

It is very true there are many factories which does not have proper systems /proper environment control measures - but the buyers/Traders did not bother about these till they were caught. But there are many high quality of manufacturers in China also.But name gets spoiled due to few such companies.

Ultimately customers decides the product and surely Chinese system has to improve , so that no one can complain. It is not in the blood like japanese , that they will not opt for something wrong to get some more money, in the wrong way.

In China same ultimate products can have more than 2 buying price , depending on quality grades . So one needs to be ware of what he/she is buying from the country.

Only from actions on Complaints/checks /systems etc you can get quality products and at cheaper cost from China.

It was told someone said repeating three times, rumor and lie become true.

hehe, so many followers.

Have you ever thought that perhaps it is the Chinese who are not aware of the facts?

Have you ever thought that the Chinese press may not be allowed to publish the truth about what has caused the reputation of Chinese products to be so low in the opinion of the rest of the world?

Have you ever wondered why so many people on here and elsewhere respect Japanese products but are disrespectful of Chinese products?

The answer is Quality and Honesty.

You can try to ascribe it to hate but that is an emotional non logical response.

We don't like people who make money from stealing other people's IP and then laugh about it.

Sorry, we just can't see the funny side of that.

None but you only talk about japans products. beat your head to count how many here?

arent you feeling shame at your words?

Dont you speak out your japans tech were stealed from the west world in last 50's?

Japan only copied expired IP.

Then they improved on it.

After WWII Jaoan was administered by USA, they weren't allowed to copy current IP.

So Chinese don't steal IP in your mind?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/26/60minutes/main595875.shtml

That's one small example of many I could quote you.

Do Chinese even understand the concept of IP?

It's obvious from your posts on here that you are being deliberately obtuse and deflective which from my experience is a normal reaction from Chinese in the discussion of Chinese IP theft.

Japan bought or used the developments made by colleges, that this country (USA) financially backed, and the Japanese applied the theories to practical products.

These advances were basically on the open market for the taking.

Hi Chris,

Please read my previous thread about Chinese products, there was huge response.I have named about Nokia Cell Phones, HP Printer, Black & Decker Toaster,etc. all MNC companies whose products are mfd. in China and problems faced by me.Nothing has happened many persons banged their keyboards and 75 threads followed.

Recently some one from U.S had shared his experience about CM mfr. from China whom they could not control for quality of the product.

I can understand sentiments of CNPower he is from China ,trying to defend his country but facts are facts.

Suresh Sharma

you guys should already known that toys been made to US side controlled specifications - not china side faulty

Quality can NOT be any where better than it was designed.

QUALITY ENG.

Everyone that is posting as Guest, you might want to register so that you have your own unique name to post with.

When ever I see Guest replying to Guest it makes me think that someone is just talking and arguing with themselves.

open your eye, there are lots of guests come here to post their opinion, why dont you complain their anonymous action? it might hit someone's vitals which made you uncomfortable.

I'm just suggesting they create an account like you and I have. It helps to see whose posted what information at different points in a thread. Especially in one that is getting long like this one.

Another benefit is that a registered person gets emails notifying them of the responses in the threads they've posted in.

Twice I've come across threads started by "Guests" requesting information about machinery that my company manufactures. I think this is a great opportunity to bring in a new customer and post for them what my capabilities are. I don't know if they've ever returned to the thread they've started to see the responses, or if they were able to find their thread.

If someone is to be active in this kind of forum, it just makes better sense to register. There really isn't any reason not too.

I'm not going to report someone for anything on here. What they do is their business but it is our place to inform others what would be more appropriate.

I'm not defending China in the least but it's hard to say things and point fingers when QC should catch things like this. Whether the manufacturer makes shortcuts from the spec is another thing, just to make a buck. On the flip side of that, how many companies/management and elected government officials here in the US pull the same crap because they have no conscience or concerns for others as long as they can make a buck or make themselves look good. Let the consumer be the deciding factor. I'll pay more for something of better quality, no matter where it's made. I told my wife over 20 years ago that if American auto manufacturers didn't see the light they'd be in trouble, look where they are today. I believe one of the replies will hold true, as they (Chinese) start wanting a better standard of living, their wages will go up as will the cost of the product. At some point in time, it will even out. There are already rumors of some companies reopening plants in the US because it is starting to look like it's going to be more cost effective to make them here again. If/when that happens, the manufacturer will face the same problems/reputation that started this thread.

1: China steel is crap, period....
2: The cost of all the post product testing stips away the low cost of labor.

3: The cost of shipping is starting to cause rethinking of labor, location, and use points.

4: At the present rate China will be a toxic waste dump within 50 years.

5: At the present rate China will not be able to raise enough crops to feed itself.

Upside: China is starting to get a handle on the issues.
Downside: China steel is still crap, not worth buying.

I give you a thumbs up.

Good response.

I agree with you.

Hello U V

from me

Kind Regards....

Dear elnav,

Your views are interesting.But my point is that knowing all these problems why MNCs who have established their brand names throughout the world still continue to get products mfd from China?. They should first establish quality standards of the their vendors and then only enter in such contracts.
Otherwise they spoiling their brand names. Suresh Sharma.

I mentioned before about Edward W. Deming going to Japan and introducing Total Quality Management techniques to the Japanese that brought them from a second rate manufacturing country.

Deming first introduced the techniques to U.S.A. businesses and was rejected for pretty much the same thing as you you described.

The American Businesses CEO's and Owners felt that they know how to run their business and no one was going to tell them how to do it.

China is going to have to change some of their cultural philosophies or they will loose their footing in the World Trade. China is still new at this and they have a lot of adjustments to make. They've been closed off to the rest of the World for a long time. Russia is still going through troubled times trying to adjust to a Democratic and Capitalistic form of Government and they've been working at it for about 18 years now.

Like I've said before, some of the Chinese companies have hired consultants to bring their product quality up, others will follow suit when they start falling behind in the market.

These consultants have a hard role to play because of what you explained. As soon as a consultant tells the CEO of their perspective company of what changes they have to make at their level, the consultants will probably be shut down until eventually someone follows the instructions and starts leading the others.

The Chinese need to start reviewing their Confucius philosophies some more.

As they become more exposed to Western philosophies they will start coming around. The older generations will start giving way to the younger generations and the younger generations are already picking up on Western philosophies already. Some of them were massacred because of it.

Deming's TQC is not only for usa but for the world in 50's.

almost all of the world now use this words and idea, and now develop many regulation like series of 9000 etc. but only few people can use statistic and probabilty to calculate the optimum plan and management. most peple know sigma, but where it comes from? is not everyone know.

tqc tqm is important, but not very foundation. the basic is design, if you design a bad products, the best tqc means you get most waste material.

I read from some book, that japan steals ameracan's patent to develop thier industry.I dont know if it s true. hehe dont angry at it.

many staff can be tqc staff after short train, he must be of responsibilty. but not a simple short train can be a good designer. most of consultants in enterprise are free men who can only eat food.

hehe hearing confucius here, very familiar with. Do yuou know who he was? whats his idea?

look at my profile, I use his words there. but it seems not too fit here.

But we alway wecome remote friends and enjoy talking with them.

It was introduced in the 50's, it has only within the last 20 years that it has become more widely accepted but it took Japan's innovations to show the world that it really works.

I do read this books many years ago. it was translated into chinese, divided into two books. I remeber its not too easy to read. just like learn math in the first volume. all filled with probability and statistics. it simplely went over a math works. I finally give up to read so much datas in statistic column parts. I hvent got so much patient to deal with so mych datas so far.

Today we hve compurer and Project ( do you know this software from microsoft). its becoming easier. but that time I hve only a slide ruler. hehe, do you know such tools?

I admit that mny japanese do work as hard as our chinese. they made many achivements in the last. we will learn from them in many areas. But do you know many products marked made in japan are manufacturing in China?

should be: computer number or data processing software and project management sortware Projct. this made it become easier...

It's not all about statistics. There is also using accounting.

There is also the looking for continuous improvement and giving the laborers influence in the decision making processes.