Salvage Bike

I'm positive that the talented, wise, articulate and darned attractive CR4 members will chime in with satisfactory answers to your question.

However, in what may be an absolutely unforgivable breach of CR4 ettiquite, I'm going to recommend that you also consider asking around on some motorcycle-specific discussion boards. One such site that seems to generally have a polite discourse with knowlegable folk -- and which I am in no way affilliated with (other than occasionally reading / posting) -- is www.beginnerbikers.org. I'm sure you'll find others like it if you look around.

If you need me, I'll just be sitting anxiously over here waiting for CR4 lightning to smite my blasphemous noggin.

I was teetering on whether or not I was breaching CR4 etiquette just by posting the question itself, as it wasn't totally technical in nature. Thanks for the site suggestion(s).

When I was much younger, I worked in a collision shop that also would buy wrecks and rebuild them. Sometimes making one car out of two. At that time a vehicle was "totaled" when the cost of the repair was higher than the value of the vehicle, minus the junk yard value. Example; car value=$1000. Damages=$700. Junk yard value=$300. In that case the car would be totaled, the owner got $1000 book value and the insurance sold the car to a junk yard who dismantled it for parts, or resold it.

My guess is that one of the people that bought the bike since the insurance company sold it did some repairs to it.

Can you get someone to take some pictures of it and send them to you? If it looks too good to be true, there may be a mechanical problem. Good luck.

Consult the "Texas Rangers" they are good at this stuff

I can't imagine any insurance company totaling a cycle due to missing turn signals or bad odometer. But, if the bike spent some time under water, due to a hurricane or flood, then one might consider the possibility that is how it came to be owned by the insurance company.

That is what I am worried about. It looks really nice cosmetically and the owner says that it rides perfectly and doesn't have any damage to the drive train or frame.

That does sound like it was in a flood or something.

It is possible, sort of. I don't know about Texas but in PA I was given the option to have my bike totalled after a fairly minor accident because there was a nick in the frame. The frame can not be repaired so I had to sign a waiver or something to allow the nick to remain as it was. The damage was in no way compromising the strength of the bike, in fact I still have it today 5 years later but that was the rule. I don't know if that's the case here but it could be.

Shawn

Interesting. Thanks for the insight, Shawn.

You did not tell us:

year:

model:

condition:

mileage:

cost:

of the bike. Therefore, it is impossible to give an opinion on whether the deal is a good one or not.

For example, suppose a bike had a value of $500. Then suppose this same bike's odometer failed and need to be replaced. You would need to determine the cost to repair the odometer, subtract that cost from the bike's value, to derive the depreciated value of the bike taking into account the cost to repair these new defects. Also, depreciate the value further to account for additional "wear and tear" from the "undocumented mileage".

Should the cost to repair these new defects and "undocumented wear" exceed $500 (the value of the bike), the worth now would be less than zero. In such case, the bike is considered "totaled".

However, suppose now that a speculator has in his parts inventory, the required parts to repair the bike. His cost to replace the odometer is not >$500, but rather zero since he has these parts. He has gambled that the "undocumented mileage" is a relatively small percentage of the actual mileage.

As you can see, there is a margin for error here which has the potential to make the bike unsalvageable. (i.e. the undocumented mileage is a significant portion of the total mileage.)

In such a case, the bike really is totalled. Walk away from this "deal" (but don't walk away for 11 hours, you will be too tired to go look for another bike).

OTOH, if the bike turns out to have a value of $3,000 before the "undocumented mileage wear and tear" is taken into account, then this deal may be viable.

Find out and post the missing info on year, make, model, condition as discussed above so that we may better assist you.

Thanks for the input. Some info on the bike:

2002 Honda Magna V4-750 - 3,000 miles (which is very low for this model year).

Purchase Price: $2700

The owner says that is in near perfect shape and has been painted (a slight concern) and has had saddlebags and a custom Corbin seat installed. It has had the odometer already replaced and new turn signals installed. I have attached pictures.

I haven't found a BlueBook/Edmunds site for motorcycle prices that are as extensive (meaning that you can add options or set condition), but Kelley's Blue Book puts the stock bike price around $4500. My 1984 Magna is listed at $2000 (although it is beat to hell, so I am selling it for much much less).

Anything I am forgetting?

Good information and pics!

It might just be that the insurance company bought the bike to settle a claim and now wants to get rid of it. You may have a good deal then in that case.

I have bought two cars (both BMW's) back from insurance companies, fixed them, and drove them for 10 more years after they were totalled. It's a numbers game.

eriew,

Thanks for the input. I know I am rolling the dice, so it is always good to hear of someone who has rolled them and done well. Especially twice. It's sort of a moot point, I guess, as I have already won the bike on Ebay, but it makes my blood pressure even out, at least a little.

I didn't have a ton of money for a bike, so this looked like the only way I was going to get something decent to ride for what I was able to afford (of course, I could afford less than what I just paid, but isn't that always the case?).

With my older Magna, I was getting tired of spending more than what I paid for it each summer in repairs and maintetance (and I don't mean oil changes and things like that).

It looks nice in the pics. Is this the bike you posted about parting out? It is a motorcycle and it's easy for a new rider to crash. Even forgetting to put the kickstand down when you get off can cause a "crash."

Sounds to me like this could have been totaled by the insurance co and someone bought it privately to fix it. Labor is expensive and bikes aren't worth much, so it's possible to have a total loss, even if the bike simply fell over.

Look into having it retitled. In Mass, this requires an inspection by the state police. If everything is OEM, it usually doesn't take long and with little hassle. Still it's not much fun.

One more thing. Get rid of those tassels!!!

Ha! Consider those puppies gone as soon as I hit the freeway!

Actually, I was going to part out my old bike (an '84 Magna). In NY, I also have to have it inspected by the DMV's Salvage and Ant-theft facility. It's a $200 application and I guess it can take several months, some times. Not fun, but if it all works out, it should be okay.

Conversely, someone at work told me that Vermont will let you register a bike without residence or a title. I live 45 minutes from Vermont, but does that sound right to anyone? It would allow me to avoid some hassle.

Custom Corbin seat = about $500.00 minimum value addition.

Saddle bags + about 150-500 added value.

Looks like a custom exhaust as well add another 500-800 for that if indeed it is.

The rest looks stock to me.

I would say that the listed value is not out of line with the added accessories. I would say that all things being equal and that provided if it was in a flood, that if properly cared for afterwards to remove any water, then the bike is worth the purchase price.

I have an '05 Shadow Aero and have added a few extras to it.

Also have an '03 Suziki Intruder Velusia special 40th Anniversary Edition.

Not that it makes me an expert by any means but I do look at pricing for add on accessories from time to time.

Thanks for the input, double_j_b.

It is good to hear from people who have been there. He also added a chrome kick stand, but I didn't imagine that was much of an addition.

Looks like the value added options could total somewhere between $1150 and $1800 to vehicle value by your estimates. If that is tacked on to the Blue Book stock price of $4500, that could be a decent deal if the bike is as mechanically sound as he is saying

He has assured me over and over than it runs great, so I guess it might not be as worrisome as it looks. I guess I will know for sure on Friday!

The

There could have been more damage originally and and this is all that is left to fix. Maybe he is having a hard time getting it registered and has decided it more trouble than it's worth.

I went thru this with a salvage bike from New Hampshire and I live in Mass. Big headache, took me 5 mo. to get it done. In Mass, any damage on the insurance report has to be replaced or fixed like new. One of many problems, Mass DMV wanted me to replace the handle bars, had a surface scratch. After 3 mo's of fighting with them, I took it back to NH to get it signed off. Bottom line, find out what NY DMV requires to get a title and is worth it.

Beware and Good Luck!

Good to know. How did they know what was damaged? Was it on the salvage title?

It did not have a title. It was listed as a salvage and to get a title, it had to be rebuilt first, than inspected by the DMV. The Mass DMV uses the insurance estimate as a guideline. If it's on the estimate, it has to be fixed. After the DMV signs off , then It can be registered and you recieve a title and it is stamped SLAVAGE. I don't know how things run in other states.

Do yourself a favor and check into it. Maybe NY is not as bad.

It already has a salvage title from Texas. I have looked into it a little and I have to take it to be inspected to make sure that replacement parts were not stolen, nor is the bike itself.

I just am not sure what a salvage title says other than Salvage. NYS is notorious for not being able to talk to government agencies in person (don't even get me going about State Ed), so I am having a hard time tracking down the info.

Thanks for the input. I am hoping this isn't as much of a headache as it looks to be.

Larry, if you don't mind me asking, why did it take so long? Were they just slow in processing?

I repaired the bike myself, finding out about the inspection, location the insurance papers, finding out what I had to do to get it to pass inspection. Since that was going to cost me way too much, I took it back up to NH and it was up there for 3 weeks. It was definitely a learning experience. Very frustrating at times.

As far as the directional lights, they maybe after market. They are not hard to find on the web if you want to go back close to original.

To my knowledge you won't find a book that will give you optional equipment for pricing a bike.

Lastly, The price on the bike is low, because it is always going to carry the salvage tag. It has been dumped big time!!

It was 5 years ago. You are right it did say salvage on the title. I had to get a new one and the new title had reconstructed stamped on it.

Gotcha. Thanks!

Now that I look at it again, it has a rebuilt salvage stamp on the title. Does that change anyone's perspective as I had previously stated it just said salvage.

Or is it pretty much the same thing?

It's probably nothing more than a matter of state nomenclature. Most likely, it's a (what my state would call) a rehab bike . . . which means only that, at some point in it's life, it was declared totalled by an insurer, but was since restored. Once a vehicle is totalled, it carries that designation for the remainder of its registration or registrations until junked. Thus the vehicle you are considering has been rehab-ed since an earlier accident which caused damage beyond the reasonable market value of the bike. Such vehicles will be auctioned to the public, and frequently picked up "for a song" by rehabbers who sense they can make a profit after restoring it to like-new appearance . . . the lower the original miles, the better. This is your situation now . . . it's a rehabber who has listed the bike for purchase . . . at very long-arms length. Now the fact that a vehicle has been rehabbed does not mean it's not a very good vehicle given the right price. Some rehabs can be virtually indistinquishable from "normal" vehicles. In your case, though, I would be very very suspicious of the "missing" odometer cable; as that could indicated an attempt to disguise the actual mileage on vehicle. The missing lamp fixtures could also be a problem as these can be difficult to locate replacements . . . and bike titling and registration just won't fly without the turn signals. It could well be that the rehabber would have completed the job and sold the bike locally in Texas, but for the fact that (1) it would be easier to do title search there in Texas and/or (2) he was unable to find those turn signals. By the way, most of the time when turn signals are damaged, it will be only one, on one side of the bike, not both . . . another cause for suspicion.

Looking at the overall picture you've painted, I would drop the deal like a hot potato.

Hope this helps.

UG

Yikes. Well, he is a NYS resident who bought it privately from someone in Texas. That also is a concern because he bought it from the person who bought it from the insurance agency.

That does sound like an area for concern. He has different Honday turn signals on it, although he didn't say why. Off of a 2006 Honda VTX.

Unfortunately, since I already won the bid, I am somewhat stuck unless I can clearly see defects when I go to pick it up.

Any suggestions on what to look for beyond what was mentioned above (checking for bent forks)?

Do everything needed to make sure it has not been stolen, other than that GO FOR IT!!!!

That is just the pump up I need. I have been spending half my time psyched that I am going to have a bike made in this millennia and the other half sick to my stomach that I am getting swindled.

Just be careful, no more no less!

There must be standard checks that can be made to ensue that the bike can become legally yours, the police check by radio!!!

You will need to check the chassis number I expect and license number of course with the police. Also make sure that they are exactly the same in all documentation.....

Do that (or as much as you can) BEFORE driving there.....do not send money up front!!

I had to put a deposit it down, but I did it through PayPal so I didn't get totally stung. Thanks for the advice. I will definitely check these things out!

No cash is getting handed over until I am sure everything is legit.

Good Man!!

Pay Pal has a limited time to register a complaint. Please watch your time table with care. If you begin to smell a rat notify PP immediately. You can always back out of a complaint if things work out correctly. I purchased a set of headlights through Ebay and Pay Pal back in March. They did not fit. When I contacted the seller, They started a long song and dance, and kept me hoping for weeks. When I finally contacted PP, I was too late for them to intervene.

Can you get the serial # and have it checked by your local law enforcement agency, or state agency before the trip?

Would that be the same as the VIN?

Yes.

Good to know. I'll see what I can do...right now.

VIN (vehicle identification number). If you have that, you can get a history report (for cars you can) that will descibe the prior accidents and such. I forget the name of the company that provides this service, but you can Goggle for it. There may be a small fee.

Make sure the VIN on the frame and the VIN on the engine (if it is in both places) match. These should also match the VIN on the title. If not something is wrong.

BTW, how were you planning on getting the bike back to NY from Texas? Truck?

This story may still have a happy ending. At least, the issues are out there. I wish you good luck. I appreciate the comments that others have offered. Bad things sometimes happen. It really is hard to tell what's up here in this case, but you now have some good ideas about what to look out for.

Hey, at least you get to see the bike first. Not like the scams where you send money off-shore and that's it.

I think that is completely the accurate way to look at this.

Actually, the bike is in NY. The owner bought it from a person who bought it back from an insurance company in Texas.

So I plan to drive out on Friday and pick it up (the exact opposite side of NYS, of course) with my pickup and a trailer. I don't want to load a bike that heavy into the bed of the truck by myself, especially as my Ram has a pretty high tailgate.

A friend of mine bought a golf cart at auction from our highly regarded federal government (good ol' USA). The picture they posted on the internet showed a golf cart which appeared to be in O. K. condition, but neither the picture or the written description of it (which did say "needs work") didn't show that the golf cart came with several cardboard boxes full of motor and differential parts which had been taken apart due to their total worn-outness.

I did notice that the seller had a perfect rating as an EBayer (100% on 400+ transactions) and had previously sold a Victory Kingpin that had also been salvaged.

I have tried to contact the winner of the Kingpin to see what he or she thought and how it turned out (especially as they shelled out nearly $8000 and it sounded like it was in worse shape, originally, than the Magna I am buying.

I am still waiting to hear back.

"To be buy or not to be buy, that is the question"

As far as I am aware, if you mark yourself off topic, you always get 5 points against you.....if you answer an off topic person, you are also marked automatically with 5 OT points against you.....I unclick the tick, that way you at least start at 0.....

I have no idea why they do that!!!

I now understand how the OT rating system works when one ranks their post OT.

Very weird system. I hadn't noticed it before because I just didn't bother to take the trouble to find out.

Thanks though Andy for pointing this out. Why this is done, who knows? I guess to alert readers who don't want to waste time with OT. Some CR4 members may not want to bother with OT.

Often, the OT stuff is better and more interesting than the OnTopic stuff. Again, who knows why. As we hear said often now, "it is what it is".

How about it was submerged in a flood. As it tumbled in the flood waters the only thing damaged was the turn signals and the odometer( water stains in the inside of the glass tell tail sign)

Is there a better place to look for that than the obvious (mirrors)? Do bikes have any glass besides the mirrors?

Will water leave indicators anywhere besides something that is easily replaceable?

That depends on how long it was submerged. Get in touch with the insurance company that payed off on the claim. Serial numbers from the bike should lead you to them. I agree I don't believe any insurance company would pay off on a claim because of a bad odometer and broken tail lights.

Due to the number of responses and requests for me to write about how this turned out, I decided to write a blog about the experience. It will run Thursdays, starting tomorrow and running through the first day I can actually drive my motorcycle to work (assuming, of course, that ever happens).

Thanks to everyone who commented. I appreciated all of the feedback and felt very prepared when I went to make the final transaction.

The blog will be located in the automotive section (rather obvious, but I usually write for The Whiteboard Jungle in the Education section, so I thought I would clarify).

- StE

For those who helped me out last summer and are still subscribed, I just wanted to give people a head's up that I have finally finished the blog thread and it will be posting in the automotive blog.

Part 7 went off yesterday and then the final part, Part 8 will be up next Monday, 8/11/09. Thanks again to everyone who commented last summer to help me get through this process.

helllo.

this is a little different but I need some information. my son bought a bike that had lots of chrome an 03 yamaha r1 he paid 5300 for it had it a month and the other day totaled it, bent frame ect.. now what would the insurance company likley to give hime and what would the charge to buy the bike back.. he wants whats chrome left that can be used on his next bike plus motor..

In my opinion, this would depend on the insurance company quite a bit. I am willing to bet a quick call to your agent would get you some answers.

At least in NY, unless he was hit by somebody or it was totalled as a result of someone else negligence, you do have to have collision on your vehicle to get any money for totalling it. You are only required to have liability insurance (which is what I usually carried until I bought a new truck because the increase in the premium price would have cost me more than what the vehicle was worth in a matter of months).

I did have a truck totaled once, when I was 18. I was hit broadside by an 18-Wheeler (driven by a guy with one eye - no joke) as he was pulling out of a quarry. Nearly broke my truck in two. It was an older truck, but I remember that my dad was given $3500 by the insurance company. He considered buying it back and parting it out as it was a beast, but decided it wasn't worth the effort. The buy back was somewhere around $800 - $1000 if memory serves. This was in 1994, however.

My advice would be to call your insurance agent (or your son's) and ask what their base procedures and figure are and make your decision then. I know my dad did strip the radio and battery out of my truck before it was taken away, but that may have been a no-no.

Yeah call your insurance ASAP. They act quick because they want to turn it into cash since tangibles are worthless to them. They have wholesalers who will pay good money for wrecks, bikes are worth more parted out than in 1 piece so they move fast. Since your claim already sounds processed (they've declared it totaled), it's probably already sold.

In the future you want to swap the OEM parts back on first before handing it over to your insurance co.