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Member

Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 5

pump motor frequency

08/24/2008 8:14 AM

Dear sirs.

I am helping to build a revres osmosis water purification system , we have got the high pressure pump delievering quantity of raw water which to be treated more than the required values but with the correct desired pressure. My question is, if I install (VFD) variable frequency driver to reduce the pump speed which will reduce the flow, will that lead to a fall in required pressure or will it maintain the same?

The other side of the question *** Is chocking the pump good practice? and if so where is it recommended to chock the pump? Is it on the suction side or the discharge side?

Many Many thanks.

Macnealty

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Guru

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#1

Re: pump motor frequency

08/24/2008 8:56 AM

If you build up a control loop in frequency with respect to pressure then the flow from the pump will automatically be adjusted to the one required to obtain the set pressure.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: pump motor frequency

08/24/2008 9:26 AM

Thanks Guro,

Could you please go a bit in detail.

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#3

Re: pump motor frequency

08/24/2008 11:37 AM

I am not sure what you mean by "lead to a fall in required pressure or will it maintain the same?"

But I will offer this:

If you slow down a pump impeller - the amount of pressure and flow produced by the pump will drop.

Secondly - Choking the flow of pumps is quite common, especially through control valves, and if you want to choke the flow of a pump it is recommended that you do so on the discharge side to avoid cavitation in the pump.

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#4

Re: pump motor frequency

08/24/2008 1:11 PM

Assuming that you are talking about a centrifugal pump.

Your intention seems to be to have the correct volume delivered at the right pressure.

If you have a look at your pump curve you will notice that for a specific speed there is a cutoff pressure. That is the pressure the pump will give with zero flow.

As the volume increases the pressure will decrease (slow at the left but rather steep on the right).

For a specific speed the flow can be determined from the curve for the pressure at the discharge side before the control valve.

There are 2 ways the flow can be controlled.

1) by throttling the pump on the discharge side (never on the suction) The pressure at the pump will be artificially increased and the flow will reduce. The pressure in the system will be determined by the other equipment.

Running throttled is usually ok for a centrifugal although the water may heat up after prolonged running at closed valve.

(Positive displacement pumps should not be throttled)

2) controlling the speed. The speed control is best regulated for the correct pressure at the equipment. The flow is then determined by the process.

No 2 capital cost will be more but the running cost will be lower.

Hope this will help.

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#7
In reply to #4

Re: pump motor frequency

08/25/2008 7:13 AM

In order to get the flow rate thru the RO membrane the temperature of the incomming water will typically need to be between 27DegC and 30DegC (depends on membrane). The membrane can be damaged if the temperature goes too high (probably mid 30's but again depends on membrane). I just mention this because there was the possibility of the water temperature increasing.

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#5

Re: pump motor frequency

08/25/2008 2:14 AM

For an RO system, the input pressure of the RO system must always be at or above the design pressure calculated in the RO projection, otherwise the osmotic pressure may cause permeate to backflow through the membrane back into the influent chamber.

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#6

Re: pump motor frequency

08/25/2008 6:57 AM

In most cases (I am assuming you are using a triplex pump) you would be better off keeping your pump running at its peak RPM and regulating the volume and pressure on the discharge side of the pump.

Tim

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#10
In reply to #6

Re: pump motor frequency

08/26/2008 5:31 AM

Quite.

Good answer!

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#8

Re: pump motor frequency

08/25/2008 12:29 PM

All the comments I noted were good. I am assuming that cost is a factor and the controller and feed back loop mentioned by yourself and others will be costly.

A simpler method is build the control loop into the plumbing. If you place a pressure regulator and waste gate into the output line then the pressure in the system will be maintained and the over capacity of the pump addressed. If the waste gate returns the excess to the intake you will not waste water.

This potential solution will be low cost and fairly reliable, keep the heat of the water down and be no less energy inefficient than simply chocking the pump which should be done on the high side of the pump as others have mentioned.

Adding a reduction gear or pulley set can also reduce the capacity while meeting the pressure requirements without the cost of the motor fancy drive. This has the advantage of minimal energy waste and low cost.

Higher flow rates through the membranes are beneficial to RO filtration. Are you certain you need to limit flow?

Sincerely,

Mr. Gee

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#9

Re: pump motor frequency

08/25/2008 1:02 PM

Have you not done your homework? None of the RO makers use such complicated control loops. One manufacturer uses a piston "Clarke" pump and this is a very efficient low power and lower volume pump. Don't ask what the "clarke" pump is since this is at the core of their patented process. However most other RO makers imply uses triple stage pump with built in pressure regulation etc.

Output quantity of product is governed by area of membrane not pump volume.

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