Dream to become mobile again!

Hello DK Lost in Michigan

Thank you for your cheerful post above, and please accept encouragement and support from Members at

Often folks who develop MS just decide there is no hope and give up on life.

If you were able to advise terrain on your cattle farm, (hopefully all flat), that would assist.

Here in New Zealand we have paraplegic farmers - you probably have some in your general area - who have used modified ATV (4 wheel motorbike type) transport to get around their farms, and continue working after accidents.

As far as I know, all these here use the original petrol-powered engines in their modified ATV.

Kind Regards, from far away....

Thank you for your cheerful post above, and please accept encouragement and support from Members at

Sparks, thanks for the words of encouragement. I intend to take hope and turn it into determination.

As to the terrain here, we have very hilly grounds with lot of woods and good old slippery clay that has been known to swallow tractors whole during the rainy season. All of the flat grounds around here are dedicated to plantings of hay and corn with the remainder left for cattle foraging.

If I were only paraplegic, I could strap myself into/on to my current ATV. The problem with MS, (as it has afflicted me at least), is that I have a profound weakness in my upper extremities that comes and goes at various times. Thus, not allowing me to control the handle bars very well. For my own dependability, at this time, I must use a joystick controller. Besides, I can just imagine my wife full throttle, taking out across the field after a rogue calf, trying o figure out where the hell I put the handle bars. She uses the ATV as much as I ever did.

Yes, I do realize that by the time I have this thing built, I probably could have went out and bought one. But, where would the fun be if I couldn't burn my eyebrows off with an errant cutting torch or get a good poke out of my welder when I become grounded and don't know it? At this time, most of my funds are going toward medical care, medications are extremely expensive!

What I have in mind is ...

A length of 51 inches and width of 44 inches, with a ground clearance of 10.5 inches. A seat height of appx. 23 inches.

Total unloaded weight of between 250 and 350 pounds (135 kg.). Load carrying capacity being about the same.

Rear wheel drive? (possibly front wheel drive with rear wheel steering). (Majority of passenger weight over drive wheels.)

Hello again, DK Lost in Michigan

Your basic design looks interesting.

But because of the nature of your hilly terrain, (you said it was hilly, but just how hilly we do not know), plus the glutinous mud you may be better to look at 6-wheel drive, low ground pressure system.

Examples: http://www.maxatvs.com/

Or a similar type to the Argo: http://www.argoatv.com/

Do not contemplate a 2-wheel drive transporter in your situation, because although cheaper and easier to make, the lower stability and ease of becoming "stuck somewhere" would preclude 2-wheel drive.

Things you are going to need are:

1. Long wheelbase for stability
2. Wide track for stability
3. Low centre of gravity for stability
4. Roll bar and cage for safety
5. Good ground clearance
6. Low-pressure self-cleaning tyres
7. Ability to get on/off by yourself, without help
   
8. CB type radio, or similar - to "call the house or for help" in case of a problem
9. Joystick controls
10. An electric motor with on-board batteries could be a problem - Please advise size of the farm, as that determines battery requirement.
11. Powered lifting device (tray, forks type) to lift calves, hay etc.
12. Other design details - the above are the obvious criteria.

Kind Regards....

I should have read your post before replying. I like your ideas.

Sparkstation, thank you for listing the things I need, It does put things into prospective a little better.

Long wheelbase for stability: I will be better off with a mid length wheel base for turning radius through door and alley ways.

Wide track for stability: 44 inches wide should be fairly stable if I keep a low center of gravity, yet it will allow me to transport the unit between the wheel wells of my pick-up bed.

Roll bar and cage for safety: Good Idea!

Good ground clearance: 10.5 inches clearance should clear most cow-pies and ant hills around here, besides the occasional 6-8 inch stump that the owner thought would never ever be a problem. What an idiot he was..... wait!..... that's me!

Low-pressure self-cleaning tyres: Tires that I had in mind are appx. 8 inches wide with an overall height of about 16 to 18 inches. Low pressure ATV tires with a tractor lug should be comparable to my wife's ATV.

Ability to get on/off by yourself, without help: Getting on may take a bit of effort but getting off is easy, just point me in the right direction and PUSH!

CB type radio, or similar - to "call the house or for help" in case of a problem: A cell phone and FRS radio with a 15 mile range should be the ticket here.

Joystick controls: A must have!

An electric motor with on-board batteries could be a problem - Please advise size of the farm, as that determines battery requirement.: I had the wife wear one of those pedometers that count the miles you walk and found that doing chores counted as 4.2 miles walking and 3.3 miles on the ATV. Therefore, I would require about 8-10 miles work capacity with a reserve of about 5 miles daily, on fair to good ground. Most hills and inclines would be less than 20 degrees, more like 12 - 15 degrees.

I was just joking about the tractors being swallowed up in the mud, although it does get really slippery in the rainy seasons.

Powered lifting device (tray, forks type) to lift calves, hay etc.: I have a tractor with loader for these types of jobs.

Other design details - the above are the obvious criteria.: Maybe a small work-light and onboard battery charger

Sorry, Should have also stated that chores are split morning and evening, so unit can recharge between,

Welcome to CR4. You have stated that you want to use electric power for the vehicle. This might be a workable idea if you can live with gasoline power. Have you ever driven a vehicle with a hydrostatic transmission? I have seen them on a pair of small pavement rollers. They use a joystick that causes the hydraulic pump to direct fluid to the hydraulic motor connected to the back roller by chain. By moving the stick forward, it goes forward,and pulling back, it stops the s roller and then moves backward. When the stick is in the center position is is stationary. Very smooth operation in action. No jerky movements. With some looking, you should be able to find a joystick with side movement as well. That could be used to apply hydraulic power to steer the back wheel. If you were to use twin hydraulic motors to drive chains driving the front tires, you could have soft, long travel front suspension that would be to the sides. That would allow low hight, wide track for stability, and a suspended ride to keep the kidneys from rattling apart. I have some flyers about hydrostatic transmissions if you want. Good luck, and stay in touch.

bob c, Is electric over hydraulic possible for a hydrostat? If so, can I get a forward speed of about 10 mile per hour?

I figure a single leaf spring turned cross ways similar to a golf kart should carry front suspension.

Yes it is done all the time. Think about power tailgates on the back of trucks. Install a push button on top of the joystick to turn on the electric pump. No button = no power consumption.

Why a single leaf sideways? I had envisioned the hydraulic drive motors mounted on each side of the vehicle, about as far back as the back of your seat is, but as close to the bottom of vehicle as possible. Stretch a flat plate across the bottom of the veh. extending six inches wider than the seat width. To this plate mount a single half of a leaf spring on each side. The front of this half spring would be the mounting point for the front wheels. If they are arched down, you would have your soft ride, long travel, and low center of gravity. The wheel drive motors (hydraulic) would transfer power to the spindles firmly mounted to the front of the spring halves, by means of a chain drive.

I still like the idea of a hydraulic arm on the front. Would make changing a tire a lot easier.

10 MPH. Just need more hydraulic power, which requires more electric power.

I applaud you and suggest that you subscribe to the RSS feed for Makezine, and other such sites. They often have interesting robotic/vehicle stories - they will feed your imagination and spirit. Another useful thing is StumbleUpon, which will take you to relevant web pages based on your interests.

Good luck!!!

bhankiii, Looks like some good ideas, but I need to keep this project simple for maintaining reasons. Good control circuit ideas.

My Family doctor retired about 10 years ago with MS. He still uses a modified ATV to get around his farm.

The major modifications are to lock him into the seat, an extension arm to open gates and a rifle bucket that doubles as an extending rest to allow single arm shooting of those problems that need to be fixed without a hammer and spanner.

Keep the questions coming. What do you propose as your base or are you going to build this from the ground up?

BAB

BAB, from the ground up. Prior to being diagnosed with MS, I was a carpenter/structural load designer and worked appx. 25-35 hrs. per week as a structural firefighter. I dabbled in welding and currently have access to a supply of raw stock steel, tubing, angle, bar, and rod.

Please see the comments to sparks above in this thread.

thanks.

Have you considered real horse power or more specifically pony power. Pretty much unlimited range, refueling on the move, serious all terrain capability, voice activated control system, and because it is a saddlechariot, safety is number one consideration.

A friend is already training ponies to replace guide dogs for the blind and I have a video of an early prototype version being driven from a wheelchair solo. It is not restricted to wheelchair use and can be driven kneeling or sitting as well.

When the animal is released, it is deliberate, and is the main safety system. The major risk in all horse drawn vehicles is the horse. The ability to release it yourself if things go pear-shaped is vital. I agree you are then on your own, but that is just as true with a loose connection/ flat battery whatever with an electric vehicle.

Contact me if you have any questions.

Simon

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saddlechariot, We have used pulling ponies in the past, currently have 2, but I would find it very inconvenient to hitch them up just to go and check the mail, etc. We still use them for fencing and logging operations on the farm. Can't beat them for fuel economy, that's for sure. But, they are too limited for what I am looking to do.

thanks

Quite agree that for simple short trips on smooth terrain, horsepower is fiddlier. It takes two minutes to harness my saddlechariot. OK you have to catch the pony, but mine just come to a call. I do accept that it is not as simple as climbing onto a precharged golf buggy. Round the ranch, horsepower will pay. Traction in all conditions. No issue of battery life. Voice activated control system and speeds up to 20 mph easily. Easier to turn in tight spaces, the list is endless and you are starting with trained horses.

With a modern vehicle built using modern engineering principles the pony can offer real benefits. Just because a golf buggy is easier on one minor factor is no reason to dismiss the pony option.

Actually I don't think you will find any vehicle that will cover all your desires, and a combination of electric for close range easy terrain and pony for tough terrain long distance would cover both options. Towing the electric version behind the pony drawn version is a viable option.

I have put a lot of work into this and will be launching the all people, all terrain vehicle very soon. By "all people" I mean pretty much anyone who isn't attached by tubes or wires to mains powered devices.

Simon

DK-It sounds like an ATV is a good start for mobility around the farm. Do you need any info. for whats needed "at the bunkhouse"? CR4 is full of good people to help! "fire away" with the questions! James

James P. Hollen, Can you please explain what you mean by: whats needed 'at the bunkhouse'?

Thanks

Hi D.K,

Our symapathies with you. I am sure everyone here will always help you in your project for designing "Electric all Terrain Vehicle". Wish you good luck and mobile life soon.

Suresh Sharma.

Dear DK,

I have a friend who makes and/or develops custom-built motorised wheel chairs at Chennai, India. You can get in touch with him and ask him to build according to your design and specifications. I am myself working on a wheel chair for universal use by paraplegics (viz.being useful from getting off the bed, showering, dressing,self help at the dining table,getting into/off the car, driving, attending conferences, use normal airplane seats and so on. I know it's a long way off, but I'm persisting and hope to make my friend build it for me. I dont intend to patent any bit of innovation and make it an open-source, for any one to improve upon. The following are the details of my friend's workshop:

Mr.Bhargav Sundaram

Chief Executive

CALLIDAI MOTOR WORKS

OLD NO.28,nEW NO.18 Desika Road,

Mylapore, Chennai-600 004, India

E-mail: bhargavasundaram@vsnl.com, bhargavasundaram@gmail.com

Phones: +91 44 2499 1609, +91 44 2499 5185, FAX +91 44 4212 7432

Mobile (Cell): 098840 49007

Hope you find this useful,

Sincerely

D.Ramakrishna Naidu

P.S. I am designing the Robotic arm for mounting on the wheelchair capable of climbing up and down stairways.

Thank you for th info. but I am looking to build this myself, although I am always open to sharing new ideas.

DK-It looks like there is good info. flowing in from all around the world. The "bunkhouse" terminology was a reference to the house you live in on the ranch. (old wild west slang) James

James, Sorry about not recognizing the old west slang, guess I am just a dumb transplanted hillbilly.

I am planning on installing a lift system to get me up two levels using a converted forklift cylinder. I am currently fabbing the safety rails, before cutting the holes in the floor!

Welcome aboard! There's help a-plenty to be found here, as you've already seen. This may not be of use, and I don't know the exact source, but here's an ATV concept that may provide some inspiration:

Thanks!

The photograph lifts it out of the "Concept" category and enters the realm of "Reality".

This is very close to meeting "Dream to become mobile again".This unit can be fitted with robotic arm(s) and will enable near normal human capabilities.

As it appears, it seems capable of being an ATV (including stair climbing); climbing into an automobile driving seat-seems precluded or even using a normal airplane seat.

Let's continue THINKING.

D.Ramakrishna Naidu

EnviroMan: If I they ever develop monster wheelchair rallies this type of chair is sure to be on the top. It looks like it could climb over anything, as well as take first place in monster mudder trials. However, I only need simple transportation..... point a to point b. It does give one a large dose of inspiration to see just what is possible. Thank you.

You betcha! I figured that might be the case. If someone can build a mini-tank like that, you should be able to come up with what you need.