DIY Lead Acid Batteries for Home Standby Power

I feel your pain, but I doubt that lead acid batteries could supply you with power for a couple of weeks. Small gas generators are relatively cheap - especially right now in Houston. Even a large (15KW) generator can be had for only $2K at Home Depot.

Another option is a backup generator that runs off your home's natural gas line.

I made it through no problem until the weather warmed up. Until then I made do with a hand cranked radio and a solar fence light - no batteries required. Luckily we got our power back two days ago.

Good luck!

Even a large (15KW) generator can be had for only $2K at Home Depot.

Which Home Depot did you see that at? Cannot find it on the net??

Donald

All the ones in Houston - a special buy for Ike. It's a Guardian 15KW model. Also, they have a 18 inch chainsaw for $159.

A gas or petrol-powered generator will be your best bet. You will need to minimise the load however (so no electric stoves). Battery reserve becomes very non-viable when talking about a large load running for a long time (it just requires too many batteries, and then you need a way to charge them all back up again). Maintenance and reliability issues are also a big issues for DIY battery installations.

You can combine a generator and a lead-acid battery powered inverter. Daytime you can use the generator - it gives higher power and can charge the battery but it's a bit noisy. At night the silent inverter can cover the smaller consumption. In this case the battery and the inverter can be a smaller, inexpensive one.

This is a good idea - use gas during the day to run the household and charge, and battery at night to run a fan.

All this talk of generators is absolutely correct, but exactly off topic. texlex asked about a design for a DIY battery that sounded intriguing to me, but I don't have the answers to his questions. I'd like to see this addressed, because a cylindrical LAB, while highly impractical for some purposes, would be nearly indispensible (if available) for others. C'mon, guys, pony up - how 'bout that battery?!? Inquiring minds want to know...

WHY IN THE NAME OF HEAVEN DOESN'T EITHER THE ORIGINAL POSTER OR ANYONE ELSE SEARCH CR4 *FIRST*, AND SEE THAT THERE ARE ALREADY BUNCHES OF SUCH THREADS!!! BATTERIES AIN'T "JUST-PLAIN-LEAD" YA KNOW.... READ-UP A BIT!!!

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/12947/Junk-Yard-Battery-Contest

OR MORE GENERICALLY ~

CR4 Search_Results <<<

While we're at it, which of you wunderful brite guys can tell me how to power my bike with my old fan motor, huh? and thanx to all.

You should have better manners - you are a guest in our house after all.

In fact, I did research CR4 a bit before posting. That's how I found the thread re the nuclear submarine and large forklift batteries, although I did miss the thread you pointed out and look forward to scanning it. My interest re the battery backup options was in addition to thoughts I had re power generation. Basically, I was wondering what battery power one could design for a home use, if volume/mass efficiency and form factor were not dominant issues. Also, I considered that the need for some might be much more frequent than a brief power outtage once or twice a decade or so. What if our power utilities became significantly more unreliable?

Liquid petroleum powered generators have some issues. I was more than a little put off of the quick purchase of a generator that would require me to haul gasoline around in or on top of my car, especially since I generally had one or small two children with me. Also, there are the issues of carbon monoxide, smoke, noise, extension cords and the limited payback of runing only a few, select items. I don't own any window unit a/c. I do have a small, 3/4 ton split system in a "jamroom" I built in my garage, but it has stopped cooling and needs some sort of service. I could have used a generator to cool that 200 sq. ft. room for sleeping, but don't really want my wife and kids to get used to lounging around in my--too infrequently enjoyed--sanctuary.

Apparently, the most reliable, longest lasting generators, are those with liquid cooled diesel engines, but they are not cheap. My natural gas service was unaffected and would appear to be a logical choice of fuel to run a generator. Piston engines fueled by natural gas are an option and there are many generating setrs that can run on NG. Would any of the newer rotary turbine designs make a better, more viable option?

Another thought. The standby generators are generator "sets" that include a relatively expensive engine that is only intended for that single purpose. Are there any options whereby a home use "multi-purpose" engine could be used to power a generator, drive a compressor, run a power washer, power a mower/mulcher, water well pumps, etc.? It seems like there might be an opportunity for a new line of common household/commercial tools that share a power source, rather than duplicating a power source and multiplying the cost and maintenance needs for multiple power sources. It would need to be designed from the ground up with efficient interoperability as a prime goal? Are you reading this Black & Decker? Briggs & Stratton?

It would not appear to be too difficult to fabricate an accessory that would allow a particular car engine to drive a generator designed for PTO drive (for anyone who doesn't have ready access to a tractor or other device with a PTO). An extra pulley attached to the crankshaft might be used to drive a belt offset from the serpentine belt, if a proper mechanism were fabricated to maintain tension on the belt and deliver its drive to the PTO generator at the proper RPM. This would be relatively simple at a certain engine RPM, but it might not be a good idea to run a car engine at 1,200 RPMs for hours on end. Somebody should design a control an monitoring device that would plug into the car's computer and run the car engine/PTO generator as and efficient set. Also, even small car engines would have a surplus of power for driving a generator adequate for the typical home's needs. Single home sized generators only require 20 to 30 hp at 540 RPMs. What about several homes? Those PTO generators are available in 150,000 Kw models. One of my neighbors would likely have donated one of his two tree-crushed cars (with possibly undamaged engines) to power one or two large PTO generators. While, perhaps prohibitively expensive for typical homeowner-financed ownership. Maybe there are rental opportunities? Designers?

FYI, Caveat Emptor, Note Bene:

In college, I majored in Philosophy and Psychology and then dulled that knowledge with a law degree. I have always had broad interests, have read fairly widely, including a lot of science fiction, and have always liked science and technology. Thus, I'm capable of imagining things that 1) might work and might be useful, 2) could be made to work but are impractical to some degree, 3) nobody is yet smart enough to make work, or 4) not possible in this universe. I often have only a rough idea of which idea goes into which of the aforementioned categories.

Why only look at lead acid? I HATE lead acid batteries! I live in the third world and we do not have any means of recycling them and we are building a huge pollution problem. I want to see if I can make a battery based on the 'agricultural' chemicals - Potassium, Magnesium, or Calcium for the Cations and Nitrogen, Sulphur, Phosphorus possibly chlorine for the Anions. (The other minor and trace elements are used in such small quantities that wide spread use of these batteries would produce more zinc or boron or molybdenum waste than agriculture could absorb.)

First prize would be for a rechargeable battery, but, if we cannot find a suitable redox reaction even a one way (I think they are called Primary cell) would keep our power running. We would need all our plates connected in advance (something like the copper bus-bar for the BT glass container that somebody mentioned) a bag of the appropriate fertiliser(s) (say potassium sulphate and calcium carbonate) and then, when the power goes out, we add the required amounts into our plastic garbage cans, stir it up, lower in the plates and we have electricity. When the battery goes flat, the contents can be spread on the lawn (or sent to the nearest farm, to be used as fertiliser).

I am hoping my teenage sons will explore this idea when they come home for Christmas holidays - there are a lot of more complex compounds that need to be checked out - monammonium phosphate, diammonium phosphate, (I had one with Potassium and Phosphorus but mislaid it, have to look it up)

I am sure we can find something - when space is not the only criteria

No one could make a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could do only a little. Edmund Burke

Welcome aboard! There are alkaline rechargeable batteries available. I don't know just a lot about them, except I've read they are a) hard to come by, b) inefficient due to heat losses in both charging and discharging, and c) inefficient in electrical terms as well. But if these difficulties are more acceptable over using lead/acid, why not try?

Hi all, Naked batteries!

The simplest batteries I ever used were for the GPO (now BT)
For our friends abroad, General Post Office, now British Telecom.

They were large square, open top, glass containers, approx. 2 ft. square,
with sulphuric acid, into which were suspended metal (lead) plates
bolted to thick copper bus bars, which traversed the tops of several of
these glass containers, to form a battery "bank" of cells, in series, to
provide the required voltage. (and very considerable amperage!)

The beauty of this system was the parts (glass containers, acid, plates,
bus bars and bolts) were easily and cheaply obtained, easily installed,
and maintained, by our own technicians. (such as myself.) Also:
Two of these battery systems (identical duplicated) were alternately used
on / off-line allowing for easy maintenance. (i.e. never any downtime.)

The only problem (as such) to this system was the open glass containers
which allowed the room to become (usually) filled with acid fumes; a
more adequate ventilation could overcome this, if it was allowed today.

I would recommend you study some old telecom battery systems, for
their cost effectiveness, easy of use, and with a large capacity.

Hope this helps, jt.

In God we trust, everyone else pays.

I chose LABs for two reasons...1) I am somewhat familiar with them (they start my car multiple times a day) and they seem relatively simple (as indicated by the foregoing description of the telecom batteries), and 2) I was even more completely ignorant of any other type. Large capacity LABs would not be cheap, as the lead plates and copper bus materials would certainly cost a bit. However, wouldn't those materials be nearly 100% recoverable and might even appreciate in value over their service life (speculating on lead futures)? Would a service life of a decade or more be likely, if the components were designed robustly enough?

What about dimensions? My initial suggestion proposed lead and lead dioxide sheeting separated by a layer of fiberglass cloth to be rolled and stuffed into a PVC pipe (assuming PVC is a good choice of housing material). Since lead dioxide is a powder, I suppose it could be made into a sheet by forming a paste with some other material and applying it to a sheet of fiberglass cloth. The cathode and anode could be attached to the entire width of the end of each strip.

For a relatively modest prototype, how about a long enough piece of 6" PVC pipe to contain a roll of 1/16th" lead sheeting 1" wide by, say 5' long (20 lbs.). That would give 10 sq. ft. of surface area. Assuming the lead dioxide sheeting was the same dimensions and weight, we'd have about a 45 lb. dry cell including PVC end caps. Add in the electrolyte and we're up to about 60 lbs. What sort of capacity and charge/discharge characteristics might we expect from this?

Would thinner or thicker sheeting be better? Would tighter or more loose rolling be better?

Instead of lead sheeting, what about using granular lead and lead dioxide powder separated by a barrier? Instead of a single pipe cell, we could use 2 pipes joined by a U-coupling and filled with enough sand to form a permeable barrier. Lead gains could be poured into one pipe around an anode and lead dioxide powder into the other around the cathode. If we used 20 lbs. of each material, what performance might we expect?

I see that one supplier sells a 4' by 25' roll of 1/16th" lead sheet for $800 and that it weighs 400 lbs.

LAB designers apparently are able to use less lead by making grids of other metal and coating them with the lead/lead oxide.

Regarding gaseous emissions, the bank of cells would likely need to be kept in an environment that could be temp. regulated. Thus, an adequate gas exhaust system would be a must. Though probably not a significant source of energy, the exhaust would contain O and H and might be directed into the intake of an IC engine used to drive a generator.

Here's the Wikipedia entry for lead dioxide.

Lead(IV) oxide, PbO₂, also plumbic oxide and lead dioxide, is an oxide of lead, with lead in oxidation state +4. It has a molar mass of 239.2 g/mol. It occurs in nature as the mineral plattnerite.

When hydrated, it forms plumbic hydroxide or lead(IV) hydroxide, Pb(OH)₄; given the formula, this is a mainly hypothetical compound.

Lead dioxide is amphoteric. Lead dioxide can dissolve in strong base to form plumbate ion, Pb(OH)₆²⁻. This can then form plumbate compounds. In acid conditions, it is typically reduced to lead(II) ion, Pb²⁺; lead(IV) ion, Pb⁴⁺, is not found in aqueous solution.

The most important use of lead dioxide is as the cathode of lead acid batteries. This arises from the anomalous metallic conductivity of PbO₂—TiO₂, ZrO₂, GeO₂, and SnO₂ are all insulators with a band gap around 3eV, however PbO₂ is a metallic conductor. This is thought to be due to anionic vacancies in the structure creating a formally mixed valent lead oxidation state.

A lead acid battery is based on the equilibrium between lead metal and lead dioxide in sulfuric acid.

Pb + PbO₂ + 2HSO₄⁻ + 2H⁺ → 2PbSO₄ + 2H₂O, E = +2.05 V

After thinking on it a bit, I think the granular lead/lead dioxide powder anode/cathode might be the better way to go. Apparently, PVC would be a fine choice for a container material, as it is not affected by sulfuric acid. Attached is a rough sketch.

Assuming a useful cell could be made, what would be the best way to to get 120V ac from it? Of course, one could make a few cells and use a transformer to boost the voltage, but transformers are not 100% efficient. Suppose one had plenty of materials and time and made 50 to 60 2+V cells and wired them in series. That would give approx. 120V dc. What would be the simplest, best way to make ac from it?

"Would a service life of a decade or more be likely, if the components were designed robustly enough?"

Read up on Edison cells. Tom's factory whipped up some that are going on a hundred years old, and from what I've read, still functioning fine. The car in the pic below is a 1916 model Raush and Lang electric a friend of mine drives, and I swear he told me the batteries were original equipment. So, in a word, yes.

texlex,

(While this may be a little "off-topic", I don't think it is too far off...)

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One thing that you should consider, that I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is the fact that when you have an installation of lead acid batteries (LAB) that are not "sealed", during the battery charging, a significant amount of hydrogen gas is evolved. While this is not necessarily a major concern when you are dealing with one, or a few LABs, even large ones, it definitely becomes an issue with larger installations, especially in confined/poorly vented spaces.

In a "prior life", (more than a decade ago), I was a health & safety consultant that was called in to assess H & S issues regarding battery charging operations for EBTs (Electric baggage tugs) and forklifts at a large international airport (by a now defunct airline). They had a battery "charging room" located off the tarmac, beneath their Domestic passenger terminal at the airport. The room was equipped with charging equipment for about 40 - 50 large LABs, each being about a cubic yard in size.

The sole worker in this room complained about his teeth, generating my inspection. The worker's dentist claimed that the enamel on the worker's teeth was being eroded by exposure to sulfuric acid vapors/aerosols...

My inspection and monitoring discounted that complaint, as there was no airborne sulfuric acid detected during my multi-day inspection & testing.

However, nobody had considered the hydrogen issue. The hydrogen gas concentrations in this room varied from fairly low (< 500 PPM), to well above the LEL (> 40,000 PPM).

And the sole worker in this room was a smoker, who did not appreciate my recommendations to the airline regarding making the room itself, as well as immediately adjacent areas designated non-smoking areas. I also specified an intrinsically safe exhaust fan to be installed near the ceiling in the room, to remove the hydrogen gas as it was generated, to keep the area well below the LEL.

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More recently, I inspected the backup/UPS system installed by an international news service in their offices at a midtown building.

The battery installation was huge, and contained several thousand gallons of acid, and many, many tons of lead. Needless to say, they DID have Hydrogen gas detectors thrioughout the facility.

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Just my $0.02...

I've come across this link where described so called betavoltaic battery which could supply your laptop over 30 years without recharging. There is an ad article, but it is not a secret that radioisotops had been applied for military and space research goals. It seems the technology had been improved to secure enough level of safety and reliability for common consumers.

DIY batteries are not practical. Buy some heavy duty lead-acids in whatever quantity you need. You will have better quality than anything you can build. Remember you only need enough power to last over when the generator is down. Get an LED lighting system to cut power use in emergencies. Twelve volt refrigerator/freezers and AC systems can be purchased or salvaged. Perhaps even batteries from wrecked hybrid cars can be salvaged. Perhaps there are even Generator sets where the IC engine has gone bad and they may be converted to steam power.

The problem you have is what fuel to use in generating your electricity. There is a a type of generator which can use any fuel you wish, one powered by a steam engine. By using a very safe water-tube boiler and a steam engine you can recharge whatever size battery bank you need to last long enough for you to sleep. Go to Mike Brown's Steam Engine site and Green Steam Engines [just do a search] and you will find some interesting engines and boilers. You could have several interchangeable methods for firing the boiler using anything from kerosene, furnace oil, propane, natural gas to ethanol, vegetable oil, coal and wood. You could even build a solar boiler or use both solar and fueled steam power. Steam power from an open forced draft flame is cleaner than IC and not so dependent on oil-based fuels.