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Compact Fluorescent Lamps

11/20/2008 2:17 AM

Why are these lamps not suitable for dimming, electronic switches, photocells, timing devices and dusk to down sensors?

The exact one I got the information from is: 15W230V2700K

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#1

Re: Compact Fluorescent Lamps

11/20/2008 7:03 AM

Hold on, youre talking about different things.

Fluorescent lamps use reactors to induce the gas inside to emit light. The reactor admits the input power and transform it to the lamp. If the input is not enough the reactor does not work properly, and the gas do not illuminate properly too (the gas light emission is not a linear function of the input, it depends on a voltage level needed to excite the gas). That's why dimmers are not used.

HOWEVER, that's nothing wrong with the use of timers, electronic switches, contactors, or photocells (or any device that gives you a DISCRETE output - I mean, on or off).

A hint to obtain such effect, used by several aquarists (as I...), is to use for example a number of lights that are turned on and off by a 4 channel timer, or any controller set each channel 1/2 hour offset, to get close to a dusk and down effect.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Compact Fluorescent Lamps

11/21/2008 3:27 AM

I love that answer, and the 4 channel is brilliant..

However, as speaking of on 120vac, we certainly can dim compact fluorescents.

Not sure of the detail electronics, but I know we sell a good bit of those.

Actually, how highest selling compact fluorescent, is our line of CCFL, Cold Cathode Fluorescent Lamp.

We will sell in excess of 100,000 of those this year alone. These lamps dim quite nicely, with standard incandescent dimmers.

Donald

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Compact Fluorescent Lamps

11/21/2008 5:53 AM

Really? Hey, do you know the color temperature of those lamps? Maybe there's an alternative that many aquarists have been asking for, but they must have a color temperature above 6500K, which is more suitable for plants photosintesis. A fluorescent lamp that can be dimmed? It would be nice... Do you know the brand name under which they are sold?

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Compact Fluorescent Lamps

11/21/2008 7:26 AM

Certainly yes. guy, what Campbell Lighting said is right at this point.

there are indeed sorts of dimmer in the market. if you want I can offer as many as you can carry.

Color temperature of a lamp is another thing. in fact, there are else 3600 etc colortemp for these flourescent lamp. and compact lamp.

if you were an electrician I can teach you how to make such dimmer, not difficult.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Compact Fluorescent Lamps

11/21/2008 8:00 AM

This is not my string, though I am an electrican and I would like to know!

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#6

Re: Compact Fluorescent Lamps

11/21/2008 9:33 AM

Cold Cathode Fluorescents and standard CFL's are two very different animals. Standard CFL's are not dimmable. As one poster noted, there are a very few types that are dimmable but they are hard to come by at most stores. Some types of photocells are designed with the device to be controlled in series with the controller circuit, these types of photocell controllers do not have a discrete on/off output, instead the bulb sees a slowly rising voltage as the ambient light falls. Look for photocells that are designed for use with mercury vapor or Sodium vapor type fixtures, they will be compatible with CFL's too and for the same reason. These take the output of a photocell circuit, feed it through a schmidtt trigger circuit that either drives the load directly, or more often operates a relay.

Most dimmer systems chop up the sinewave in to small slices so that the device only sees part of the sinewave cycle. Incandescent bulbs, since they are essentially nothing more than a heating element, can take that chopped up sinewave and "integrate" it into an equivalent of a lower voltage. CFL's however, since they use a resonant transformer to step the voltage up in order to excite the gas cannot accept chopped up sinewaves. Ionized gases react very fast to changes in voltage and current once they are ionized. that is why they are used as lightning arrestors, and as krytron and trigatron triggers for nuclear weapons. As a result of the fast reaction, the instantaneous gaps in the sinewave allow the gas to lose it's ionization. CCFL's on the other hand require a mugh higher voltage to operate and as such thier ballasts are much more complex than standard CFL's and can incorporate circuitry to allow for dimming.

As to the color temp, that is strictly a function of the phospors used and is independent of the method of ionizing the gas.

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Compact Fluorescent Lamps

11/21/2008 10:19 AM

Thanks Rorschach, very nice point, and nice explanation of how fluorescent lamps work.

I'd like just to know if there are cold cathode fluorescent lamps available in the color temperature range above 6500K.

Rgds.

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Compact Fluorescent Lamps

11/21/2008 11:03 AM

bhrescobar, for aquarium use you might want to look at an array of Silicon Carbide (blue) LED's instead of fluorescent bulbs for your fish tanks. you'll get a bluer light, closer to what you'd get with a "grow light" type bulb. Say something like Allied Electronics part number 505-0009. you can see it's output wavelength. these should be infinitely dimmable and put out enough light in the 420nM band to allow plants to grow and your salt water fish to show their true colors. these LED's peak output is in the soft UV range and the plastic enclosure is filled with phosphors to convert the soft UV to visible light, much the same way that the phospors on the inner surface of a fluorescent tube convert the UV to visible light. you could string a bunch of them in series and drive two strings (opposite polarity) from the AC line. each LED will want to see about 3 to 3-1/2 volts and will be destroyed if it sees more than 4. so if the line voltage is 120V nominal, then a string of 40 LED's for each string (one to use the positive half of the ac cycle and one to use the negative half.) for a total of 80 led's should net you about 720 candelas at a surrent draw of 20 mA. put say a 1N4004 diode in series with each string to rectify the AC (technically the LED's will do that themselves, but better safe than sorry and the 1n400x series diodes are cheap insurance.) and put a 150V zener across each string, such as a NTE5100A, to prevent voltage spikes from damaging the string. (160V is the maximum a string of 40 could take, a 150V one will limit the voltage each LED will see to about 3.75 volts, well below the 4V max.). you will probably want to put a 6K 5W resistor in series to limit the current to 20mA. The whole setup should pull around 5W and put out LOTS of light.

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Compact Fluorescent Lamps

11/21/2008 12:03 PM

bhrescobar, here is a stream of consciousness schematic I threw together for you.

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#13
In reply to #9

Re: Compact Fluorescent Lamps

01/09/2009 2:38 AM

Hi, Rorschach!

Sorry I missed reading this in a timely fashion. Lovely. Thanks, and (don't understand why there weren't a myriad of others) a well-desrved GA covering both halves of your response.

Mark

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Compact Fluorescent Lamps

01/09/2009 9:16 AM

Gracias Mark!

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#10
In reply to #8

Re: Compact Fluorescent Lamps

11/21/2008 2:16 PM

SUPERB!

I'll try to find those here in my place, and check out the price too.

As you stated, it will be just 5W.

Assuming the LED angle to be 15 degrees, I estimate a total output for this system equivalent to 38703 lm according a conversor I found in the web.

Just to let you know some more details, my aquarium have nominal 200 l, which means that the recommended amount of light should be with 50 lm/l roughly 10 000 lm. I could use half of it... maybe I could also sell such a system here... any investors out there?

Regards.

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Compact Fluorescent Lamps

11/21/2008 2:50 PM

you could use a single string of 40, and plug it into a dimmer if it is still too bright. all the parts are available from Allied Electronics. the led's are $.81 each in these quantities, or $32.40 for the set. the 1N4004 is something like $.03 each. the zener is $.61, the perfboard is $12.75 for a 4" x 5" bit with plated holes. (you could probably get it cheaper elsewhere.). so it will definitely rival a CFL for cost, but it should last 20+ years too and draw a third of the power.

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#12
In reply to #7

Re: Compact Fluorescent Lamps

11/21/2008 8:00 PM

Yes, I can get those for you

Donald

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