107,000 Homes Still Without Power in New England

Glad to hear you're OK now Bricktop. I'm in upstate NY and we were out until Sunday at 10 PM. I had a tree down across my driveway as well, but sawed it into much needed firewood by Friday afternoon, so we were able to get to supplies. Our lowest in-house temp was 40 degrees F on Sunday morning at 7:00 AM. We were lucky as we have a working fireplace, a gas powered stovetop and maintained hot water through the power outage (again natural gas based).

I've gone camping in worse conditions, but everything changes when its your home (and pipes), your family and friends stuck in it. On the plus side, we became very chummy with the neighbors trading blankets, wood, food, wine and warmth.

I extend my sympathy to you and to the others caught in this awful storm.

However be aware that I still envy you - for I am here at work slaving away when I would much rather be there "playing" in the snow and ice!

Slaving away at work?!?!?! Looks like you are fooling around on the 'net - like me

A clarification, there are 109,000 homes without power in Massachusetts alone, most in Worcester County. In New Hampshire, there are some 150,000 homes still without and another 38,000 in Maine. I didn't know Upstate New York got hit too, I've not seen numbers from there, or Vermont.

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1139288&srvc=news&position=4

Yes, as of this morning, there were still 41,000 folks in upstate NY without power.

A warning to people with generators: CHAIN IT DOWN! I was talking to a fellow at work this morning. He heard his go off in the middle of the night, and when he went to check on it, it was gone. All in less than a minute.

Fortunately, I didn't get water in the cellar, but my next door neighbor did, about 18". It really made a mess, as you could imagine. His furnace was underwater. He has had trouble before, but this time his sump couldn't keep up. The fire dept. came and pumped it out.

I hope things go well for you during this trying time there. Stay safe. Make sure the generator is not near any windows. And stay away from the overhang of your house. This area vents your attic, and the exhaust will rise into your attic, and drop into your house.This is a common cause of carbon monoxide poisoning here during power outages.

About chaining up your generator. During long power outages in the past, Thieves would steal cheap lawn mowers, bring them to a house with a running generator, start the lawn mower and steal the generator. The lack of noise would not startle awake sleeping people, and another generator was gone.

Stay safe and warm.

Luckily with last years raising oil prices my father invested in a coal stove in the living room (we also had a pellet stove in the cellar). This kept the house warm even though my father probably had to manually start them if they weren't already going when the power went out. We have a gas stove, so the only thing not working on that is the igniter. The only problem with power being out in our household was water. We have a small generator, so it went on when the dishes had to be done or for showers.

Keeping food in the refrigerator and freezer cold was the only major obstacle, other than sheer boredom. It is amazing how the power goes out and you find that you have nothing to do. Yay (!) for dominoes. We didn't have any trees fall on anything important, so phew!

Note: Bricktop, I am very glad you are okay. Hopefully you will have a bit more fortune in the future.

Hey Bricktop! Glad you are surviving the ice storm. How are you geting online if your power is out?

Out here in Central BC we do not have a storm to contend with but a prolonged cold snap has played havoc all the same. A week ago we got hit with deep snow fall ranging from 14" - 20 " and high winds. Trees got knocked down and that also caused power disruptions. Some people did not see a snow plow for three - four days. Then the temperatures plummeted. It has been -10F to -20F since last friday and it is expected to continue til the end of the week at least. Discovered this morning my truck is frozen. So now it becomes a question of how to get enough heat into the coolant system to prevent damage. Evidently the anti freeze is not concentrated enough and my tester obviously isn't accurate. It said the concentration was okay. Grr!

We heat with wood but when the power goes out we do not have water from the well.

All the best

These reports are really awful - and I extend my sympathies and best wishes. We were hit hard by hurricane Ike, but at least when it was over we didn't have to worry about freezing to death while we waited for the power to get turned back on.

All these reports of grid failures and loss of other infra structure services makes you wonder if maybe we need to take a step back and look at more self sufficiency in some instances.

Have we become too dependent on externally provided services?

Might we be better off cultivating a bit more self reliance and if so how would we go about achieving it?

Nuclear power plants for everyone?

Not necessarily! During the ice storm of '98 it was the power lines from the hydro dams and the nuclear power stations that took the biggest hit. The 220KV transmission lines buckled under the ice load.

Someone on a newspaper email comment line said bury the power lines. All well and good but buried high tension lines have their own problems. So its not always a cost effective solution to just bury it.

That's why we need personal nuclear power plants - no power lines required.

I'm sure a whole gaggle of the PerpMo's and GTUs who've cruised through here would be more than happy to Solve All Your Energy Woes given enough mis-directed funding.

I agree that self-sufficiency is important, but I also think people take lots of things for granted. Planning and preparing for what-ifs is important. People take for granted what is readily available to them. They figure if they have no power, they can go to a relatives. But obviously there are times you cannot leave the house (See Bricktops story!). If you have no water, but water at the supermarket.

We are not prepared for natural disasters in general. Power failure in the winter can be deadly if you are not prepared. I could count on one hand how many people I know that keep extra water around... just in case.

With regard to self-reliance, I've had my eye on an outdoor wood-burning furnace for a while - but the town I live in has banned them. Any out there have one of these units? And, if so, what do you think of their safety and pollution controls?

My uncle in law has one; and up here in central BC they are quite popular. In fact he introduced me to the owner of the dealership for wood boilers and I am now doing some part time work helping them develop other alternative energy solutions. Altogether there are four competing brands sold locally. A neighbor four doors down has a competitor's model.

Curiously enough, a town councillor approached me at one of the trade shows saying he wanted to buy one for himself and the council wanted to change the bylaws to permit these if they met EPA standards. But without the EPA certifi cation they could not approve them. That in turn led me to investigate further.

Not all wood burning boilers and furnaces are created equal. It looks like any of the products now sold are safe. Pollution controls is quite another matter. We had on display a working furnace that burned wood pellets. Even standing right next to it you cannot smell any fumes. the exhaust stack ran cool enough that you could place your hand on the exterior shell. solid wood models on the other hand do have some smoke.

Preliminary EPA tests indicate the combustion byproducts from a wood pellet stove or furnace is as low as natural gas models of the same heat output. The fly in the ointment seem sto be terminology. Wood pellet stoves for indoor use are tested and approved.

BUT! . . . Outdoor furnaces also burning wood pellets are not classed as stoves, they are classed as furnaces. The standards people do not have a standard for "FURNACES" and decline to lump furnaces and stoves under the same grouping for classification purposes.

Modern wood burning appliances have several over temp and over pressure safety features. Furnaces in particular have more safety features than indoor stoves. Furnaces are in effect boilers with a water jacket around the fire box. The furnace itself stands outdoors and he heat is transfered indoor by circulating the liquid.

This highlights one major disadvantage of furnaces over stoves. They require power to run the circulation pump. Mind you the power need is modest. Our models use either a 175 watt pump or a 300 wat pump. All the same, it is a disadvantage compared to stoves. My indoor stove required no fan or pump. But the downside is we need to clean out the ashes periodically.

A pellet stove with an automatic feed auger develops so much less ash there is no comparison. But then you are back to needing some kind of power source for the auger drive and any air circulation fan or even a combustion draft boost fan.

The water jacketed boilers are vented tanks so you cannot develop internal pressure. This was the major objection to older models with a closed water system. With excessive heat over pressures were possible.

Modern solid wod burning stoves and furnaces have forced draft fans. They are usually operated thermostatically. Its easy with the circulating water type. When the water drops below a threshold, the controller starts the draft fan and the smouldering fire gets hot real fast. When the water temp is above a hi limit the fan shuts off and some models close a damper.

Emission controls do not work as well on solid wood models because they have to let the logs smoulder inbetween calls for heat. The pellet stove we sell (Woodmaster from Minnesota) even has an electronic ignition system so the fire actually goes out between calls for heat. This is why the furnace can meet the EPA emissions comparabel to natural gas.

Self ignition for solid wood can be done but involves enough additional controls and machinery that the cost would be prohibitive in today's market place.

Bottom line seems to be solid wood is only acceptablle for rural applications or at least estate size lots of 1 - 2 acres each. For more dense building areas only the pellet stoves and furnaces can meet the EPA emision standard and these units must have power for draft control and safety features. Delivering 300 watts of power is not a big problem with todays inverters and battery banks. Even a modest solar panel aray is enough to collect solar power daytime to last the night.

Although we do hear of problems and mishaps none involve safety as such. Fire, over pressuer or toxic fumes. The above assumes the instrallation was done by qualified installers and proper atention to stack height clearances etc are observed.

I drive by someone with one. I can see it as something you don't want up wind from where you are. It makes a "lot" of smoke. This person has plenty of property had has it sitting about 500ft from their house.

Regarding wood burning outdoor boilers. Sadly not all designs are equal. Some of the older technology ones are quite smoky. But the newer and better designs have only a little smoke when running properly. It also make a huge difference if the wood is green or well seasoned.

Modern wood boilers with computer controlled draft fans have almost no smoke when the draft fan runs. It burns hot and clean. When the draft is closed of there is almost no air going through the fire box and you only get a smoldering of hot coals and a light amount of smoke.

I admit its impossible to determine the age and thus the level of technology when you only see the exterior of the boiler as you go by.

Just don't judge the whole technology by one or two poor examples. From what I have seen Woodmaster from Minnesota is among the better designs.

Never mind what the town says check with your insurance company. On the advice of the insurance companies Ontario banned their use due to low level sparks.

Are you planning on venting the hot air or running pipes with anti-freeze in them? Your EPA gets downright cantankerous if its ethylene glycol!

Never mind what the town says check with your insurance company. On the advice of the insurance companies Ontario banned their use due to low level sparks.

REPLY

What's wrong with them. Haven't they ever heard of spark arrestors?

Agree about the ethylene glycol. We recommend to our customers to use straight water. This overcomes the environmental objections and also reduce cost. Our systems use approximately 100 gallons or so in the boiler and anywhere up to another 20 gallons in the piping. We do recommend adding a corrosion inhibitor and biocide to prevent organic growth in the warm water. After all these systems are open to the atmosphere to prevent pressure build up so biological contamination is possible.

To reduce or eliminate the hazard of frozen water if the fire ever went out we create an extra loop to incorporate the hot water tank in the flow. That way the hot water is free when the fire is going and if the owner wants to get away for a few days or a couple of weeks the hot water tank is now set up to keep the circulating water warm. Yes the use of hot water heating from the hot water tank does seem pretty inefficient. It is only as an emergency measure for when the fire cannot be maintained for any reason. When the boiler works normally this loop now provides hot water without usign electricity.

Hi Elnav

I believe many had spark arrestors but the problem was chimney fires..ie ...slack maintenance.

I want to put one in myself but don't have the soil depth to facilitate buried pipe. Last year we didn't have much snow so the ground froze down to bedrock...2-3 ft.

Any ideas on using propylene glycol in the pipes?

When our company does a winter install we just leave the insulated pipes in their sleeving on top of the gorund. Then come back in spring and bury it. As long as the fire is going the water is hot enough to keep from freezing. Buried pipe is as much a question of appearance and convenience.

You have to bury the pipe to protect it when the logging trucks arrive with a load of timbeb for fire wood. We did one install last winter wher it got to be -30D for three weeks. No harm.

You might be able to get a deal from the local ir port on some of the de-icer stuff they use on aircraft.

I truly believed I was better prepared than I actually was. After the first day, my generator failed, for good. As I heat with a pellet stove, no power, no heat. So, I pulled it out and installed the old wood stove, that I held onto, just in case. That was fine, but sitting in the dark, is no fun at all. Working all day clearing away the debris, then having to spend about 5 hours switching stoves, then carrying wood into the house, wore me out to the core. My daughter lives very close by, and stopped by to check on me. She said, "Dad, come with me, I have power, you need a good hot meal". It was an offer I couldn't refuse. Yes, I had my backpacker stove, emergency food, water and beer, but I had had it.

The town actually did a very good job. They opened up an emergency shelter, with hot food, cots, and showers at the high school. The fire department went door to door, to every house in town, every night to see if anyone wanted to go. Even though I had family with power, that really meant a lot to me. I stopped by the shelter after work today, ( there are still over 300 homes in town without power ), but most people have gone home. I asked if I could do anything to help, and I ended up playing cards with some people there for about an hour.

My new generator is on order, I found a company with free delivery. It should be here by the end of the week.

Self reliance is great, but I have learned that somewhere, there is a weakest link. I got my power back yesterday about 4:30 pm. I then spent several hours reinstalling the pellet stove. This thing has really worn me down. I'm really tired, but am trying to hold off going to bed, because if I go now, I'll be up about 2 am.

I truly believed I was better prepared than I actually was. After the first day, my generator failed, for good.

REPLY

That goes for me as well.

I figured I had prepared. Then I realized much of stuff was stored in the garage. Yeah sure! If we get piles of snow I can't get into the garage. We have the old fashioned doors with hinges on side. It swings outward and snow would block access.

Water. We have bottled water; but guess where I left it? in the mud room and it froze solid.

We have propane lanterns, coal oil lanterns and Coleman type naptha lanterns. Yep; fuel tins stored in garage. That was for safety so we did not have flammable stuff in side the house.

My generator and inverter with battery bank is also in garage. Hmmm? Maybe I will just move out to garage if we have a real storm.

So what exactly happened to your generator? Was the failure preventable, or predictable?

"Was the failure preventable, or predictable?"

Who knows. I tested it in the fall, changed the plug, changed the oil, ran fine. However, it's about a 25 year old Sears model, and really not very many hours on it at all, 5000 watt. At the time it quit, it was running at about 75% capacity. The motor lost compression. Probably burnt a valve or something.

Anyway, it's time for a new one. The dam thing made a lot of noise.

TIC

Brick.......my sympathies.........I found an obvious solution...............

Live where these extreme conditions do not occur..........we had a cold snap..........sheesh got down to about 50 degrees F. ( that's not a minus 50 )

Born Southern California.....raised same.........still live same.....83 years.........

Military service had me on the Washington/Canadian border.......Japan....saw enough cold service to appreciate my climate.

Sorry Guys..........I don't even own a top coat.

MR. GUY

Hey Mr. guy my condolences! I found S.Cal climate so boring after a while. And you have to use pretend snow to get anything resembling a white Christmas. So sad!! Up here we get real snow and a truly white Christmas. Kids get real toboggans and sleds for gifts and the hot chocolate served after a sledding party is sooooo nice.

I live on the other coast, and I have to agree. I get bored with no seasons. I miss the snow. My wife misses the cold. Do you know how hard it is to hang holiday lights on a palm tree?

Likewise! The autumn in these maple clad hills is gorgeous. Winters are great also. When the moon is full we'll cross country ski over to a cabin overlooking a large lake, get the fire going, open the bottle of wine, listen to the wolves howling..........

Might be a stuck valve. If piston and valve haven't connected it might save you the cost of a new one.

Is there any resistance when you turn the engine over?

In line with what you have mentioned, the heads on these older flathead motors are usually easy to remove. If the valves do not return to their seats when spun, carbon removal is usually easy from above. Good luck.

How did your generator fail? A neighbor had one and it failed after 2 hrs. They think it was overloaded. I would figure it would have overload protection?

I'm in the market for one. The cheap Chinese clones look good and the price is appealing, but if they don't work then they are only worth their weight in scrap.

It just quit after 1 day. The motor failed, no compression. It is about 25 years old. I've ordered a new Honda. I'll fix the old one, and sell it.

I should have better read the other posts. I saw your reply about maybe being a bent valve. That would be my guess too with a non dramatic failure.

I'm about the pull the trigger on a generator but I'm seeing so many stories about failures on new models, I'm afraid.

Years ago when we lived on Plum Island (just offshore from Newbury/Newburyport, MA), the island lost power because of a nor'easter that blew through. We were one of maybe three homes on the island who had generators.

A couple of our not-the-sharpest-tool-in-the-shed neighbors marvelled at the fact that our lights were burning and nobody else's were. They asked, "How come you've got electricity and we don't?"

"We paid our bill early this month. The power company is really cracking down on slackers. Didn't you get the notice?"

I've got oil lamps and a wood burning stove which work to get by.

I'm now motivated to get a generator. There is one person in my folks neighborhood (still without power) whose got every light on, Christmas lights going, TV, etc.

My folks are staying with me because they have no power and it doesn't appear the line workers are close to begin restoring it. Fallen trees not only took out power lines, but took down the poles too. The town expects to remain shut down until next year.

Yesterday I cut about 4 cords of oak, maple, birch, and apple. I haven't gotten to the big stuff yet. I expect to have between 20-30 cords of wood from my folks 7 acre property. Many giant oaks were just uprooted from the weight of the ice. As luck has it, nothing hit the house.

...And crime is through the roof. Since people have left town and security systems are down criminals are going nuts. A neighbor had a chainsaw taken from their driveway when the owner left it for a few minutes.

Hey Bricktop

If it makes you feel any better here's one that hit us in 98. Some communities didn't get their power back after three months....some waited longer. Apartment and office buildings plumbing froze and burst. Some backwoods communities disappeared off the official map!

How did the storm affect Canada:

• at least 25 deaths, many from hypothermia.
  
• about 900,000 households without power in Quebec; 100,000 in Ontario.
  
• about 100,000 people took refuge in shelters
  
• residents were urged to boil water for 24 to 48 hours.
  
• airlines and railway discouraged travel into the area
  
• 14,000 troops (including 2,300 reservists) deployed to help with clean up, evacuation and security.
  
• millions of residents forced into mobile living, visiting family to shower and share a meal or moving in temporarily with a friend or into a shelter.
  
• prolonged freezing rain brought down millions of trees, 120,000 km of power lines and telephone cables, 130 major transmission towers each worth $100,000 and about 30,000 wooden utility poles costing $3000 each.

Good luck ......stay safe.

That does not make me feel better, but it does make me feel fortunate.

After it stopped raining the temperature plummeted to -30'F for days. Anybody who didn't have a wood stove was in serious trouble. The phone lines were down, no hydro, no help........dire straits for many.

My son and I spent a lot of time getting to the older folks on the skidoo to bring them back to my place. Some were in serious need of medical attention and no way to get them to hospital. The county road was impassable for two weeks and only opened up when the locals cleared it with skidders. Anything that could go wrong......went wrong.

I feel for you man.

Hi guys,

That '98 storm was pretty bad indeed...I was living in a 4 ¹/₂ (2 bedrooms, kitchen, living room) that had a fire place. We ended up with 7 guests (+ my wife and our 2 young kids). A little crammed to say the least but I took 2 car batteries plugged in parallel on which I hooked 2 12v fans to push the heat around the fireplace and run a radio. All the lighting was by way of candles and 2 small oil lamps.

My wife is from British Guyana (South America) and it is custom over there to cook over an open fire so everyday, the in-laws would put a heavy cast iron skillet over the coals and cook away. I never ate so much as I did that week !! We always had hot water (again, on the coals in the fireplace). We went around to the neighbors to see if anybody needed help and provided some with food and hot water. All in all, a somewhat rewarding experience.

Although most people will come together to help each other, there are always a few that will take an opportunity like this to show off (a generator and just about every light, xmas decorations, TVs, etc ON in the house) while their neighbors are freezing and without food. I've heard a few horror stories from down the street.

And to think: when the storm hit, I was in the middle of changing the engine in my '83 Mustang. Outside! (the car was under a tarp in front of the shed). Needless to say, THAT job took a little longer than I planned for....

I feel for you guys. Good luck and stay safe.

there are always a few that will take an opportunity like this to show off (a generator and just about every light, xmas decorations, TVs, etc ON in the house)

REPLY: There is actually a good reason for loading a genset to its near maximum limits. Under full load, the genset will reach operating temps faster. This means more fuel efficiency and a hotter engine. That in turn means the cylinder walls are not cool and thus you have less blow by. Ask around any marina or genset service facility and you will learn that under loading of gensets is among the most frequent reasons for pematuer failuer and servie work on a genset. The second most frequent cause of failure are burnt stator windings due to unbalanced loading. This happens when the applied load on the two legs are not equal. Again the only solution is to load up the genset to balance the loading.

So maybe that so called arrogant show-off is actually just following good advice on how to best care for his genset. It is very difficult to size a genset for a given household because there are so many different and variable loads. All too often gensets are selected that are over sized for a given house hold.

Unless that genset owner is really wel educated about energy conservation his lights are likely to the be tungsten filament and the heat from these will also contribute to the heat in the house.

Hi elnav,

A fact that I didn't know about, thank you for the enlightenment. But if I was in that situation (of having to run the gen at full power), it would still occur to me that some of my neighbors might be in need of some help (as was the case here) and would go on and offer them some much needed hot water and so forth. The ones I'm talking about did no such thing even though some more unfortunate people went knocking for some help (hence the horror stories earlier mentioned)...

Still...I'm thankful that you thought me something new.

Have a great and safe holiday.

regards,

Rick.

Rick you bring up another aspect of storm tactics that is not technical.

While living in urban environments I have noticed a greater reluctance in people to help each other out. There seems to be more of an attitude of "every man for himself". I lived in Ontario during the ice storm of '98. Since then I have relocated to BC and at present live in what is essentially a rural environment. One of the things I have noticed here is a greater willingness to help each other out without needing to be asked.

When we first moved here, we did not have the money for a snow blower. Imagine my surprise to hear the distinct sound of a snow blower after we had the first 12" snow fall. We eventually had a total of 84" of accumulated snow fall last winter, and after every storm, our drive got cleared. It took a while to discover who was responsible. Eventually I found out that three different individuals were responsible. Now that I do have a machine, you can be assured the favor is passed forward. One neighbor who does have a machine is ill and cannot operate his.

In a rural community people recognize that we must stick together for mutual support. Something people in the big cities seem to have forgotten.

Elnav, Duck

That was the point I was trying to convey (english is my second language so the thoughts don't always come as I want). The story about the snowblowing is very familiar. As a younster (8 or 9), I used to go out on heavy snow days with a couple of friends armed with shovels and help out all the neighbors struggling to clear their driveways. i grew up in a small town where everybody knew everybody. I was also the paper boy and the acts of kindness (shoveling) made for some nice Xmas bonuses...

I ended up running a business with my younger brother at the age of 12. We had bought a 3-wheeler and a snow blower and were clearing up most of the driveways on our street. Our prices were more than competetive (3$/shot - including the stairs and walkway) and it made everybody happy......except maybe the local contractor

But as you said, bigger cities means a lot less compassion for "the others". I still think it has a lot to do with how you are raised. I have neighbors on either side of me that are getting too old for the shoveling and my 14 year old son is always happy to go lend a hand...

Enjoy your Christmas holiday...

That's one storm I'll not soon forget.

The railways were bringing their locomotives out onto town streets to supply electrical power. Never seen that before.

Fuel shortage became critical because gas stations couldn't pump. Those that had gensets tripled the price. After two weeks I was down to my last pint of diesel and out of gas completely.

One sad incident was when the military decided to parachute men and supplies into a particularily hard hit area. The snow was deep with a layer of 3" ice on top. All the men who landed on it broke their legs.

"Blame Canada"