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Inductive stove top heating

01/03/2009 11:48 PM

How did the stovetop I recently used boil water in under 10 seconds? I thought inductive? If so, how would an inductive system be structured this simply?

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#1

Re: Inductive stove top heating

01/04/2009 1:13 AM

Under 10 seconds - It sounds incredible.

Please give some more detail about stove, plates, pot , conditions before, conditions after.

Is the stove still working?

Did the wiring suffer any damage?

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#2

Re: Inductive stove top heating

01/04/2009 7:36 AM

dsdynamics: this is the same a induction heating industry uses to heat a engine crank shaft to red hot in seconds & quench with water? to harden a high powered R.F. generatorused with iron/steel perry

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#3

Re: Inductive stove top heating

01/04/2009 9:11 PM

But for this (the heating by eddy losses), you should have correct condutivity on the secondary side (here water) - high conductivity means more loss on your primary coils, low condutivity means no heating.

And water is not thermally a good conductor - I dont know except microwave if you can uniformly heat it enough to boil so fast (I tried, my home micro does not).

What is the manual of the heater saying ?

It is an interesting topic.

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#5
In reply to #3

Re: Inductive stove top heating

01/05/2009 12:52 AM

The pan is the (electrical) conductor (i.e., the secondary side) in an inductive stove top. The pan heats up very fast -- much faster than it does via thermal conduction with a conventional electric stove. 10 seconds would seem very fast for a large quantity of water, but probably not far off for a small quantity.

It is a little like placing a drop of water directly on a conventional heating element: in that case, probably 10 seconds is enough to get to boiling temp.

I imagine they are very nice to cook with.

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#4

Re: Inductive stove top heating

01/05/2009 12:52 AM

It really depends on how much water was in the pan and the power of the inverter driving the coil underneath the pan. Assuming an efficient solid state driver, perhaps 85-90% of the incoming power consumption is directly transformed into heat within a ferromagnetic pan. I've personally witnessed a 1/4" layer of water raised to a boil in a steel frying pan in less than 10 seconds via a 2 kW power inverter driving a Litz wire work coil at about 30-40 kHz. The inverter used a pair of power IGBT's to do very efficient power switching at current zero crossings. In comparison, the efficiency of a gas stove burner is typically less than 40%.

A ferromagnetic pan is placed in close proximity to the work coil (about 1/4" above it), so that most of the oscillating high frequency magnetic field couples into the steel or iron pan. The pan must be made from a magnetic iron alloy so that it will have significant hysterisis losses when driven by the high frequency field). Copper, non-magnetic stainless steel, glass or ceramic pots will not work. Because the energy is directly absorbed by the pan and immediately converted into heat IN the pan, most of the incoming wall plug power ends up directly heating the pan (and the water). Unlike with a flame or electric heater, there is relatively little power loss outside of the pan. The remaining 10-15% losses include primarily IGBT switching losses within the inverter and resistive losses within the work coil.

Here's a good overview of the induction cooking process:

http://theinductionsite.com/how-induction-works.shtml

Bert

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#6

Re: Inductive stove top heating

01/05/2009 9:57 AM

Dsdynamics,

I recently made a similar post (http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/28533#newcomments) to get some more information for a paper I was writing for a paper (I'm a third-year mechanical engineering student in Canada). My final paper can be found here: http://www.appropedia.org/Induction_Annealing and (hopefully) will answer your question of how induction heating works. Some other great resources include:

A quick synopsis of how induction heating works: An alternating magnetic field induces currents in the workpiece, which heat the part by joule (resistive) heating. As you'll see in my paper, the alternating field can be established by one of two methods: (1) using an alternating current in a coil (similar to an electromagnet; this is the more common method), or (2) by using a semiconductor to develop a static/constant magnetic field in which the workpiece is rotated. In the case of boiling water, the metal pot is heated by induction (induction requires an electromagnetically conductive workpiece, otherwise no currents are generated and no heating can occur) and the water in the pot is heated by conduction (and other methods of heat transfer, from the hot pot).

Some cool videos of induction heating (including levitation melting, where the workpiece melts in mid-air, suspended in the magnetic field), can be found here:

All the best,

-MechMatt

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#7

Re: Inductive stove top heating

01/05/2009 12:54 PM

You may find a few interesting points about induction cooking here here.

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#8

Re: Inductive stove top heating

09/29/2009 1:48 PM

A few things that I have only recently taken notice of that may be of interest to anyone still linked to this old thread:-

1) I/we rarely burn saucepans on induction. In fact, I believe I am right in saying we have never burnt one, even when forgetting something left on max heating, it bubbles like crazy, but never burns.

I have thought about it and I believe that I may have figured it out, the heating energy is SO even, right across the whole base of the saucepan, there is no "hot spots" where burning might start to take place as with any normal stove/saucepan.....even the flattest only make point contact in a few areas......

2) When boiling eggs for example, with only a few eggs in their shells and set to a low heating value, just enough to maintain boiling, the bubbles produced are huge, they get bigger and bigger till they burst. I find that strange as there is little or nothing to hold the bubbles together, water is not soap. I do not believe that much leaches out of the egg shells....

On a conventional stove top, the bubbles are far far smaller......tested....with same saucepan.

I do not know if there are any benefits or not, I just found it interesting......

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