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Anonymous Poster

How To Isolate a pump ?

01/04/2009 1:22 AM

How can I Isolate a pump in a Phenol Palnt ????

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#1

Re: How To Isolate a pump ?

01/04/2009 4:32 AM

Take it out of the paint

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#2

Re: How To Isolate a pump ?

01/04/2009 8:51 AM

Assuming that it is one of a parallel set that need to be repaired.

You should close the isolation valves on the suction and discharge sides.

If no valve is present you should stop the system and temporally fit blank flanges or end caps for screw in.

Note for screw in piping a union is always a good idea.

Also note when using the spell checker to select the appropriate word when offered. Example palnt will offer paint and plant.

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#3

Re: How To Isolate a pump ?

01/04/2009 12:05 PM

You SHOULD NOT post questions such as this to a group of total strangers who have no knowledge of your equipment, country, state of mind of the operators of said Phenol Palnt nor your level of competence in the field of??

What is your field?

Informed, reasoned decisions are made only if adequate INFORMATION is provided with the question.

You should try Google first. It doesn't care if you ask stupid questions.

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#6
In reply to #3

Re: How To Isolate a pump ?

01/04/2009 7:46 PM

Here here. Talk to the system designer. Look at the system yourself. Where are the drawings? Seriously?

Uhhhh turn the valve on the right. No errr the left one. No no no the one on top. Uhhhhh I dunno.

Seriously.

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#8
In reply to #6

Re: How To Isolate a pump ?

01/04/2009 9:21 PM

Also get the plant vacated (with a few mile radius)

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#4

Re: How To Isolate a pump ?

01/04/2009 2:01 PM

As a past retired tank truck driver working in and for versus chemical companies. And having hauled lots of phenol and formaldehyde and many other chemicals. In most cases all the tanks farms and chemical plants had valves at the source. AS Hendrik says use a blank flange plate to close the line off after the flow has been stopped. Use all safety precaution s and safety gear and ware. IF no valves are in place you may very well need to drain the tank source and flush.

It is costly but doable. Put in a by pass line with valve in a live flow system . It takes some engineering of where to put the new valves and piping. Special made tapping equipment and valve sleeves that go over the pipe. Before the tap in drilled. Where you have pressure and flow the need for this very special . I do not know there the product by name. The industrial plumbing supply house has what you need and the name of the companies that will come out with the tapping equipment and do it. It may take 4 to 8 hours maybe longer to set up the piping , tap , valve and pumping.

Sorry lylych but that is what is web site is about asking technical question . Sending someone off to Google is bad judgment. If you do not have a proper answer do not write a reply. If the question had been about a water pump system would you have gave the same response? As they are the same isolating a pump. It really does not matter what the liquid is or where. The process is just about the same no matter what size the piping is.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: How To Isolate a pump ?

01/04/2009 4:13 PM

"If the question had been about a water pump system would you have gave the same response?"

No. I would not have responded at all. We are talking about hazardous liquids, which carry certain liabilities for use and control not associated with water.

"phenol and formaldehyde and many other chemicals" require more care and knowledge to transport and process than water.

Any question regarding the cracking of a chemical processing system should not be debated by people with no stake in the outcome.

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#7
In reply to #5

Re: How To Isolate a pump ?

01/04/2009 9:19 PM

You have no right to be off topic, You are on topic and worth GA.

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#9
In reply to #5

Re: How To Isolate a pump ?

01/04/2009 9:35 PM

100% GA

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#10

Re: How To Isolate a pump ?

01/05/2009 2:07 AM

The answer is - with wxtrem care!!!!! Get someone more expert - if you ask a question like this when dealing with phenol then you need to do a lot of homework.

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#11

Re: &&&& selling BBC tshirt $17 jordan $35 coach handbag $38 $$$$

01/05/2009 5:06 AM

Dear Mr Kuaile.

This is no forum for selling handbags and tee shirts.

Pl desist from this practice.

Just checked your profile- all your posts are for the same , and in various forums except the commercial space.

There are other ways of advertising (of course that will not be free)

regards

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#12

Re: &&&& selling BBC tshirt $17 jordan $35 coach handbag $38 $$$$

01/05/2009 6:04 AM

WHY DO YOU NOT TAKE YOUR STUPIDITIES ELSEWHERE

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: &&&& selling BBC tshirt $17 jordan $35 coach handbag $38 $$$$

01/05/2009 8:31 AM

must have been attracted by your tee shirts and wanted to sell you a few more.

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#14

Re: How To Isolate a pump ?

01/05/2009 10:07 AM

I agree with others, make sure you know what you are doing prior to attempting something. This chemical is fairly hazardous and you should exercise care in isolation, I wouldn't want to tell you how to do something without seeing the process for myself, even relying on a P&ID for this question would not be adequate in my opinion.

We typically go for a "zero energy state" on an isolated piece of equipment, meaning that any source of energy should be positively isolated from the equipment. Usually this is fairly straight-forward, but at times it can be more difficult. Due to the nature of your question, I would suggest you work with your superior on an answer. If it isn't fairly obvious how to do it, you probably can't isolate it very easily.

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: How To Isolate a pump ?

01/05/2009 8:03 PM

Absolutely. Welcome neighbor.

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#16
In reply to #14

Re: How To Isolate a pump ?

01/06/2009 3:20 AM

"Fairly Hazardous" is an understatement - Phenol is extremely hazardous especially in the liquid form (solution or molten - not stated here). It burns the skin and has systemic toxicity and will affect the internal organs.

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#17
In reply to #16

Re: How To Isolate a pump ?

01/06/2009 9:55 AM

You're right, it was an understatement, I did a little more research after the first post on the chemical in question and it is nasty. However, I would say the same thing about almost any other system for isolation. To me, proper isolation is one of the largest responsibilities for plant personnel.

Improper isolation is not a lesson you want to learn the hard way, I have had a couple near misses, one of them was on a water pump where I was replacing the shaft seal and the foreman needed to start a different pump in the same breaker box that I had locked out. I gave him my key and just to be "safe", stood up and away from the pump out of service. Sure enough, the pump in maintenance started right up, luckily my hand wasn't on the impeller like it had been 15 seconds earlier. That was the last time I ever did anything like that.

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#18
In reply to #17

Re: How To Isolate a pump ?

01/06/2009 10:13 AM

After many years managing chemical plants I have found one of the worst situations is in understanding types of valves and types of pumps and have gone out of my way to ensure proper training in valve types and the replacement of any which do not display their state. If it is a gate or similar thern a rising stem is best, ball valves give the best indication but circumstances can demand others. In my plant a phenol pump would need to be fitted with in and out valves and also care to have pressure relief if a positive displacement pump is used.

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#19

Re: How To Isolate a pump ?

01/06/2009 10:30 AM

If your going to do any of this type work, you need a comprehensive Lock_out_tag_out system in place. If you don't, people can and will die.

http://www.osha.gov/OshDoc/data_General_Facts/factsheet-lockout-tagout.pdf

About 15 years ago, at my company, 8 men where killed because the equipment was not properly locked out. And yes, it involved a valve between an accumulator and a "pump".

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#20

Re: How To Isolate a pump ?

01/06/2009 10:52 AM

By following appropriate training?

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#21

Re: How To Isolate a pump ?

10/12/2023 11:18 AM

By following the facility-approved written procedure for so doing?

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#22

Re: How To Isolate a pump ?

10/12/2023 12:52 PM

First you need to be educated on the proper handling of Phenol...

https://www.petrochemistry.eu/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Phenol-manual-14-08-2015.pdf

Then you need to work out a strategy with the plant engineer and head mechanic, get all your prep work and materials in place, and you can begin...

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