What Are The Top Ten Science Fiction Books?

By "fiction based on hard science", I presume that you mean: Fiction that may not be actual science fact, but does not violate the basic laws of physics.

Based on that, my recommendation would be Heinlein, and Asimov first. Both wrote Sci-Fi, but were also "down to earth". Heinlein is generally credited with the development of both "Waldos", and the concept of the waterbed (might be myth - I lie a lot!). Asimov also wrote books about mathematics.

Give us some more info on what you are looking for in these books.

Books by Heinlein by name for both science, story, and character is the sort of thing I think I am talking about.

Really what I'm talking about are those books that transcend the genre.

I am really looking for a list that would stand up in High Schools as proper for required reading.

Ms. Barnett

I do remember reading Robert Heinlein, but when I read it I don't distinctly remember it being strikingly political. As I said it has been such a long time ago and it may have been the times, fifties - early sixties. I think the next generation read those stories in a totally different context, late sixties - seventies, for often those same people have read Ayn Rand. Even though I didn't read Anthem I read Rands big novels, which didn't effect my entire political philosophy as it has others. So perhaps in today's world, there is a possibility that reading Heinlein and Rand wouldn't be disapproved of. The bias is not about the messages of science fiction, the bias is toward what is "real literature."

You definitely should take another look at Heinlein. The stories he wrote back in the '50s were much for pulp Sci Fi, and a long series of books of Youth Science Fiction. I loved the "youth" books because I could pick one up when I came home from work, and finish it before bed time.

In his later novels, he addressed philosophy, social issues, and even SEX! Toward the end of his life, much of his earlier work was "out of date". He tied it all together though in a multi-dimensional novel which he called (I believe) "666".

"Stranger in a Strange Land" was a major hit in the early 1960s... GROK?

Somewhere, I have a book which was the basis of a college course on Heinlein and his literature, Also, after his death, Ginny (his wife) published a book on his thoughts over his career.

I have at least one copy of just about everything he ever wrote.

Sincerely

Bill

Funny how we can disagree so much in one area, and agree so much in another, emc c. Actually the Clifford Simak book, Time After Time, about the robots fighting for soul status is the last Science Fiction book I read.

Simak is all about the human soul.

As am I.

I do honestly believe that at least on this forum, which is for engineers, if we could start from basics, the majority would in fact agree with me on socio-economic -political issues that affect engineering, or vise versa; the kinds of things we debate here.

Of course I am equally certain those who disagree with me feel the same about their points-of-view :-)

But the point is, one has to check one's fundamental premises before proceeding onwards; something most people have never done.

And not to nitpick, but it is Time and Again, copyright 1951. I have the first edition :-)

I should have added Repent Harlequin, Said the Ticktock Man, by Harlan Ellison. This was a counterculture manifesto in a short story, very hot in the '60s & '70s. I think it would resonate today, as well.

You sound like an old Analog reader. I am a great fan of Campbell and I believe there was a book of his editorials published - I have tried to track down a copy for many years but never made it.

To me he was one of the greatest parallel thinkers ever and his unique approach to all sorts of subjects has made me try to use the same processing concepts.

One article of his that I would like to get my hands on and read again is the one in which he defined Barbarianism.

I put Asimov as no 1 - he mixes Science fact and fiction so well.

I enjoyed the Dune trilogy but maybe that was Fancy rather than fiction. I was disappointed with the TV version - they got lost in the special effects and overdid them I feel - but that seems to be what the public wants.

"Asimov had lots of good ideas, it's just that IMHO he wasn't a great writer. One idea that was amusing and natural was that Mars had been colonized, and artificial gravity had been installed in the settlements so that the colonists would not suffer muscular and bone density atrophy due to the lower Martian gravity, but that a Madam of a house of ill repute paid to have the gravity turned off in certain rooms of her establishment for those who wished to experiment in the low natural Martian gravity. You can't totally diss a man with an imagination like that!"

I believe that was a short story called "I'm in Mars-port without Hilda". "Nine Tomorrows" was a good set of 9 short stories.

When I was in grade school (a looong time ago), I read Asimov, Clark, and Lester Del Rey. I cant remember a title from the latter, but some titles are listed here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lester_Del_Rey

How about H.G. Wells' "War of the Worlds"?

I'm in Mars-port without Hilda. Bingo!

Regarding del Rey. As I concluded, there are just too many to mention, especially if you are looking for a top 10.

One thing we could have said is if you are looking for a broad consensus of what constitutes the creme de la creme, check out the Hugo and/or Nebula Awards given out each year.

I haven't looked at this stuff in over twenty years (excepting Vance) but back in the day it seemed that the Hugo Awards lined up with my tastes closer than did the Nebula Awards.

Anyway:

www.thehugoawards.org

Hi emc c - I like your picks - especially Campbell and LeGuin - gave you a GA. :) Been wondering for some time if the Martian Chronicles was a veiled commentary on European colonialism? - Larry

OK. After thinking for a while, I would suggest "The moon is a harsh Mistress", and/or "The past through tomorrow", by Heinlein.

The past through tomorrow, is actually a collection of short stories, but it has a lot of what I think you are after.

The moon is a harsh Mistress, I can only vouch for from 20+ years ago. I can't find my copy. But if I remember correctly, one of the science/social, parts is using a rail gun on the moon to launch rocks at the earth, when there is a social/political conflict between the two.

Brave New World - Aldous Huxley

The Day of the Triffids - John Wyndham

A Canticle for Lebowitz - Walter M. Miller Jr.

The Martian Chronicles - Ray Bradbury

Dandelion Wine - Ray Bradbury

The Lathe of Heaven - Ursula K. Le Guin

I have read more science fiction, but I don't think it fits your criteria and some I just remember authors not their novels. You see I read The Day of the Triffids, a few years after it was published.

Though there are quite good SF writers from behind the ex Iron Curtain, I will mention here only Karel Capek, a Check author of such novels. In fact he is the inventor of the word ROBOT (in Slave languages robota means work). As I remember, besides the "healthy" SF in those novels, it was a very exciting intrigue. And I was 15 or 16 or so....

WHAT! No Kurt Vonnegut Jr.?

Slaughterhouse 5, Cats Cradle, Breakfast of Champions. etc.etc.etc.

But then again some may consider some of his work fantasy. But Cats Cradle was one of my favorite. Couldn't beat the ending!

Player Piano.

Also certain shorts from Welcome to the Monkey House.

Sci-fi, prescient social commentary and black humor all in one.

George Orwell's 1984 transcends the genre and is literature. Same with Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury.

I would put Hitchhikers Guide by Douglas Adams on my list, but I am sure many will not agree.

The Peter F Hamilton two book epic "Pandora's Star" and "Judas Unchained"

A very good book that covered the future of human civilisation as technology progressed. Unlike other science fiction books it also did a very realistic job (in my personal opinion) of showing parallel social progression and development.

L. Ron Hubbard should be mentioned also. Although he seems to be mostly associated with his Dianetics work, he holds a Guinness record for most published author, at over a 1000 books.

The 10 Mission Earth books were a great read that I would recommend to anyone.

Heinlein's The Number of the Beast is also a great read.

I have really enjoyed the "Rama" series by Arthur C. Clarke and Gentry Lee. Well crafted books that grab you and pull you along with the narrative.

Ben Bova... also comes to mind, "Mars" was a great read.

Lots of good choices there. I would not omit The Sandkings by George R. R. Martin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sandkings

For maximum effect, listen to it read aloud, in a darkened room...

This was one that hit me with the unexpected sledge of "...didn't see that coming...". A great short that indicates how we humans handle power.

Calvin

It is coming back to me, i read this story in a compilation by terry Carr i forgot all about it

i read the dutch version

http://www.essef.nl/detail.php?id=7733&xurl=%2Fboeken.php?type%3D1%26lang%3Dnl%26letter%3D%26pagina%3D1

the original

http://www.bestsf.net/reviews/carr9.html

Heinlein: Stranger in a Strange Land

I agree with many of the previous posters. I grew up reading Issac Asimox, Arthur C Clark, Robert Heinlien (Stranger in a Strange Land, the Lazarus Long books ...), Clifford D Simak, Phillip K Dick, Poul Anderson, Larry Niven, and others, and loved them all.

An author who I read more lately with great enjoyment is Iain M Banks. He successfully combines great story-telling with sharp observations on human foibles, a strong sense of the bizarre and funny and an incredible vision of the future of humanity. Well worth a look.

I grew up reading Issac Asimox, Arthur C Clark, Robert Heinlien (Stranger in a Strange Land, the Lazarus Long books ...), Clifford D Simak, Phillip K Dick, Poul Anderson, Larry Niven, and others, and loved them all.

Oh, you take me back... Despite having grown up in what we here call a "previously disadvantaged community" (to a degree), our local libraries were never wanting when it came to good reading material. I grew up on a healthy dose of science fiction.

Philip Jose Farmer's Riverworld series had some interesting propaganda about the significance of engineers in society. Also contained some references to spirituality (as usual). But I get the feeling that he was rushed while writing this series.

The Hyperion books by Dan Simmons. Absolutely astonishing read, but also meticulously well written. The concept of Merlin Sickness, where someone begins to age backwards, forgetting the previous days events, is an awesome concept beautifully scripted. His descriptive powers are rivalled only by Dickens himself.

John Wyndham's books are still being made into films, The Day of the Triffids is a classic. Actually, I studied The Kraken Wakes at school. So transcending complete.

Before I mention the all-time, no further questions required, insurmountable, bow when you mention his name, greatest in this and other universes, absolute best - I think I have to mention Michael Crichton. Not scholarly material, but usually good entertainment and whats wrong with that eh?

So who is the absolute best? Someone who not only writes beautifully, but bases his books on rock solid science, as well as humour?

Look no further than my own signature below.

A lot of this comes from my memory so excuse me if it is sometimes off.

Frank Herbert - Dune series, political and ecological masterpiece i re-read every now and then (have not read any of his sons continuations)

Isaac Asimov - Robot & Foundation series, i can understand some people don't like his writing style but i find him easily to digest.

Jack Vance - Tchai books, Jack Vance has lots of books but not all of his books are to the same level IMOH, some i like and some i abhor.

William Gibson - the Neuromancer - Blade runner do need to say more, and the whole working out of future hacking and the power of companies is very well done.

H.G Wells - War of the worlds (i like the Jeff Byrne version) Great idea (remake movie seem to forget that an intelligent race would use an encounter suit or at least sample the atmosphere for dangers)

Jules Verne (books)- he had a lot of ideas that would become true

Larry Niven - Ringworld a great Scifi adventure book

Arthur C. Clarke - Rendezvous with Rama, same also a great Scifi adventure book

Hal Clement's - Mesklin is also a great read

John Varley's - Titan about an artificial planet

Greg bears - Eon and other books

Charles Harness - firebird (use of Einsteins law)

Orson Scott Card - Ender's Game (a lesson to a ll gamers )

Verner Vinge - The peace wars

and so many more, i have forgotten i read

oh and maybe H. P. Lovecrafts At the Mountains of Madness, The Colour out of Space & The Shadow Out of Time could be called science fiction

BabyGuinness yes the Hyperion series was a thrilling read

Ender's game is my all time favorite book. It's not just a leason to gamers, it's also on the USMC's required reading list for Staff NCO's. It's wonderful reading on so many levels. I could go on and on, so I won't.

Enders Game is a great book and I didn't mind the others that followed it although they aren't as good as that first one. What about Crichton? Everyone knows Jurrasic Park but he had a lot of other good books such as Terminal Man, Andromeda Strain, Sphere, Congo, etc.

My favorite sci-fi:

The Ragged Astronauts by Bob Shaw.

A totally believable story, and within the bounds of physics as we know it - no mysterious or as yet undiscovered forces.

How could i forget "hitchhikers guide to the galaxy" from Douglas Adams that book is hillarious!

That book? All 5 books in the trilogy are great. And don't forget, Doug Adams invented the wireless internet!

All the titles that have already been posted makes for a veritable "who's who" of science fiction. I started out in the genre with many books by Jules Verne (I think I read all but one of his books) way back in my early high school days. If you are looking for something acceptable for schools than I would suggest that most school administrators would find Jules Verne quite suitable. My only reservation is that yougnsters today might find his style a bit boring.

A lot of us agree on the same authors/different stories. Let me add for literature Franz Werfels' 'Star of the Unborn', and of course Phillip K. Dick for 'Radio Free Albemuth' (rave reviews), and the one we all know as Blade Runner from Dicks' 'Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?'

Larry Niven for hard si-fi, Roger Zelazney for some very strange stuff indeed, Greg Bear for 'Eon' and 'Infinity', both very complex regarding science-fi/sociology, and the Mars Trilogy for the same, by Kim Stanley Robinson.

Gotta go. My 'droid just made me another PanGalactic Gargle Blaster, and Trillan is waiting.

Hi All,

I think it unlikely anyone can resist this topic! Who hasn't been
influenced by books! I cannot add to the (literate) many listed here
but would say I have read over 300 sf's in the '50's with great
enjoyment. Still have my original IRobot, (it's a bit tatty now.)

What disillusioned me somewhat was seeing the identical paragraphs
(word for word) appear in other titles, under names of "other" stories.
This "killed" sf for me, as I was reading "supposedly" a new story!

I then found James Hadley Chase - which is off topic, but he held
me on the edge of my seat with the character's morals painted clearly,
to the point, and his story lines were fast moving; great for a teenager.

Perhaps the book which remains with me more than most, showing
a ruthlessness of character, was "Such men are dangerous" by
Mr. Paul Kavanagh (pen name?) May be it's not particularly literature
but the uncaring, ruthlessness, of the lead made an impression on me.

Many happy hours.. - BIG thank you! (to all good writers!)

jt.

The best book is one you cannot put down, yet don't want it to end!

"The Mote in God's Eye" by Niven & Pournelle was pretty good. "Cities in Flight" by James Blish is often overlooked but not bad. I don't know if you count a short story, but "A Boy and His Dog" by Harlan Ellison has to be on the list too, IMHO.

The Uplift Series by Brin. Heinlein is interesting stuff. Asimov.

Guess I'm dating myself. Now all I read seems to be the "Economist", requirement docs and spec sheets....

Great Science Fiction works.... Hmmmm....

Far too many to list by title but the authors that you really, really should read and in no particular order....

Larry Niven - Everything.

Robert A Heinlein - Early works. Later stuff not quite so good IMHO.

Arthur C Clarke - Anything

Isaac Asimov - Anything

Alastair Reynolds - Revelation Space

William Gibson - Neuromancer

Philip K Dick - Everything

Frank Herbert - Dune

David Brin - Earth

Terry Pratchett - Discworld. More thoughtful and funnier than Douglas Adams.

I've limited myself to 10 writers so that'd be somewhere on the order of a couple of hundered books if you read their entire output. And yes, I promised myself I wouldn't mention particular works but just couldn't help myself.

Enjoy.

Pure science fiction (As opposed to including fantasy) that is as good as anything anyone has written.

Roger Zelzany - My Name is Legion (especially the last story -- home is the hangman)

Robert Heinlein - Stranger in a strange Land

David Brin - Earth Clan

William Gibson - Neuromancer

Anne McCaffery - Dragon Flight

Fredric Pohl - Gateway

James Alan Gardner - Expendable

Clifford Simak - Waystation (yeah i know City won all the awards - way station was better)

Charles Stross - Glasshouse

Larry Niven - Neutron Star

Thats ten.. I could go on and on. Science fiction has Evolved. It continues to take on the way the world has changed and tries to deal with what it might be. The biggest challenge to todays science fiction is how much Science there is. Writers like Stross, Vinge, Hamilton, and banks have all tried to include the vast potential changes that will be coming in the near and not so near future.

(don't get me started on fantasy - Pratchett is the current master of fantasy.. )

Anne McCaffery - The ship who sang is also one of my favorites

I can't believe no one has mentions Fred Saberhagen's Berserker series.

James P. Hogan has several good science fiction books that have predicted social changes accurately. He is mostly hard science fiction but not all.

H.G. Wells - The Time Machine (used this book as the foundation for a research paper for a Literature class - scored an A); Michael Crichton - any thing; D. F. Jones - Colossus (the other two books in the series are optional reads, however the series does show how good can become bad and how bad was actually good); Madeleine L'Engle - A Wrinkle in Time (and her other companion books)

Jules Verne---anything

.. EVERYTHING !!!

Aha! You folks left one out:

AE Van Vogt's "Weapon Shop of Isher". This short novel is brilliantly written, I thought: it was a standout in the days when I read a lot of scifi.

For teens, Douglas Adams for the great laughs, and William Gibson for the tech of today. Gibson could be a challenging read for unmotivated teens, though, because of the post-modern structure (not a linear chronology). Adams would be a great choice for school because it is so readable and fun.

The best science fiction I have ever read:

"A specter is haunting Texas" by Fritz Leiber

His other books are excellent too, but the one mentioned is histerically funny to read. It is original, wild, talented... But, to be honest, he is more a fantasy writer than a sci-fi writer. Anyway, put it in your list, it is short and worthy.

In hard science-fiction Larry Niven is probably the best, even surpassing Asimov. However, he is a bit boring sometimes. Being a writer myself, I don't like the way he falls in common places (and characters and circumstances) all the time.

In my opinion Ayn Rand can't be classified as Sci-Fi. The genre is about how the lives of the people are affected by technology. Ayn Rand writes about the consequences of philosophical ideas. The only other authors I know who have explored the same area are Robert Heinlein and Garet Garrett. Perhaps some critics should give the genre a name, something like po-sci-fi (disgusting isn't it?) to distinguish it from straight political fiction that may or may not analyze consequences of ideas.

Ayn Rand's other works are not sci-fi but Anthem clearly is. And, per the OP's request, it certainly transcends the genre.

Anthem takes place in a future where collectivism has so thoroughly triumphed that the meaning of the word "I" has been obliterated from the language. Along with it, the concept of the individual as distinct from the masses. The story is the journey of one hero who rediscovers the meaning of the word, and the concept.

As such, it neatly fits in with Orwell's 1984 and Huxley's Brave New World. These future dystopias are either all sci-fi, or none.

And you can take it a bit further. Well's classic The Time Machine was mainly about his vision of the far future, and it was a Marxist extrapolation of how societies based on capitalism would end up. The Eloi were the decadent childlike descendants of capitalists, and the Morlocks were the decadent troglodyte descendants of workers, forced to live and work underground so as to leave the surface undespoiled for the captains of industry.

Vance has a book/story (the title escapes me now) that describes a society of play actors. At any given moment, a particular person and his family are treated as lords and ladies by the other townsfolk, and a few days later these same people will be waiting hand and foot on another family which has assumed the role of nobility. And it is quite bad form, the main character soon learns, to point out that the role-playing is going on. But what is this except a commentary on a free market system: the winners in such a system are financially successful, but they achieve that by - serving others.

And here is another example of a morality play in the guise of science fiction. Here I recall neither author nor title, but it was a short story.

An exploratory scout ship from Earth locates an inhabited planet. Their mission is to discover planets that can be colonized by man, but also if they find something that could be dangerous to mankind as a whole, in the last resort they have the autonomous authority to destroy the danger.

The scout ship descends, three scouts emerge, and find a planet teeming with various lifeforms, none of them intelligent - a perfect world for men to colonize and exploit. The team begins making various scientific measurements of the atmosphere, the soil, and the various life-forms, and they soon hit upon an anomaly. Regardless of the species they check, the DNA of about 60% of the species are identical.

They eventually realize that there is a parasitic life-form on this planet which assumes the form of the female of any other species, and is capable of mating with the male of the assumed species, but there is no offspring. The young of this parasitic species are laid like eggs and grow up in cocoons like a moth or butterfly larva, and they emerge from said cocoons as adult and nubile female simulations of the assumed species.

The three scouts are taking this in, and the ramifications for the trajectory of life on this planet, when they notice three new very large cocoons forming near their camp. They await this new development with quite a bit of less than purely scientific anticipation.

And they are not disappointed. Not only is each "woman" fully formed and pleasing and fully versed in their language, but they soon find that each 'woman" is specially keyed to one scout. The story goes into this in some detail, both in terms of looks and personality, but the end result is that the scout relating the story realizes there will be no jealousy between the scouts over another man's "woman," because the "keying" is so perfect that the men only want their own "woman." And one other thing. The men also find out that the 'women' are excellent lovers, down to details such that they smelled better after a night of passionate love than any real human female would.

The story teller scout soon realizes what is happening to this planet: the parasite females are more attractive to males of any species than real females of their own species, and the other species are therefore going extinct. The parasite life-form has found the perfect evolutionary adaptation: to adopt the form of the female of other species, so that they can be taken care of and nurtured.

The other scouts are quite besotted with their "women," and are eager to take them back to Earth. The story teller is not as taken, because, as he puts it, "woman has always meant mystery to me, and this woman was no mystery - she was precisely what I wanted her to be; no mystery, no challenge." That is a paraphrase from memory - I read this story over thirty-five years ago.

The story teller scout alone realizes the full import of the plan to bring these "women" back to Earth, and he knows that his teammates will not hear of leaving their "women" behind, so one morning he gets up early, fires up the ship, and blasts off, leaving his teammates below.

And just before he breaks orbit, he releases a planet-killing weapon that destroys all life on that planet.

Now that story was clearly science fiction, but it was much more than that, else I wouldn't remember it so clearly across more than three decades.

The moral imperative that drove him to make that fateful decision is similar in kind to the decision to bomb Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and also of Winston Churchill to not defend Coventry from a German aerial bombardment, in order to not give away the fact that the Brits had broken the German code.

These are all decisions no human should ever have to make, and yet from time to time circumstances are such that people are called upon to make them.

A sci-fi story such as this transcends its genre; it is about the soul of man.

As is Anthem.

Transcending its genre would not necessarily make a great book, some times remaining true to it genre and portraying the mundane can satisfy that definition.

Personally I don't look for morality tales or a great philosophical treatise when I read any genre.

Holy Crap!!! What a trip down memory lane! It's been more than 30 years since I read some of these. Great books, every one that's been mentioned. I think I just found a new project.......

Here's one more: a work of literature that transcends and could be thought of as 'science fiction': a great read for anyone who enjoys physics theory and a laugh:

Italo Calvino's "Cosmicomics" involving the personification of particles and absurd dramatization of the same... Check out "All At One Point" in this book of stories for a fantastic laugh about the Big BANG.

i enjoyed : Micheal Moorcock.. THE NOMAD of TIME

The One I see missed is Andrea Norton. Her Hard Sci-Fi are some of my favorites.

Others I like are:

Alan Dean Fosters Pip and Flinx adventures,

Charles Ingrid Sand Wars series,

Elizabeth Moon and David Weber have some good writings also.

I'm sure to have forgotten a few that were not mentioned already, Most of my library is packed.

And add to that Alan Dean Fosters "With Friends Like These... who needs enemies"

The aliens had returned to Earth after centuries of blockading humans from space travel due to their violent natures, but now they needed allies. But after hundreds of years, they had no idea what they would be getting the universe into...and they soon found out when a little girl picked up a twig and used it to vaporize a group of the aliens enemies!

I haven't read science fiction in a looooong time. I think the last I read was C. S. Lewis's Perelandra trilogy. But I have to put in a vote for Jules Verne, for one reason. He is a pioneer in the field. If you want a list of foundational works, make room for at least one pioneer. Imagine a list of mystery works without Sherlock Holmes. Such a list would be incomplete.

As previously mentioned several times, all great books many read in my distant past. Also, try BLASPHEMY by Douglas Preston and DEEP STORM and UTOPIA by Lincoln Childs, and RIPTIDE in colaboration. Maybe not true Sci Fi as in "flies in space", but great reads nonetheless and easy to find nowadays.

Ian Watson has written a stack of good stuff, and much more modern than most of these on the list (I voted good answer for Neuromancer, above, I read it for the first time a couple of years ago, stunned that I missed it) try The Martian Inca (1977) or Hard Questions (1996)

I consider his "Space marine" novel in the warhammer 40K universe one of the best (yes i am a gamer )

OK. One more and then I will shut up. It's not exactly Sci-Fi, but "The Cyberiad" by Stanislaw Lem, is thought provoking, and hilarious.

Is that a book? Typically the book is better aye?

A tragic comedy of errors of epic science fiction.

A sad story of how a red herring smoke screen created large amounts of wealth for polluters and fixers while doing nothing to find the truth and fix the real issues at hand. Mudding the waters until the only results is the common man foots the bill for a lot of nothing while even more significant issues go unnoticed.

Sounds like the Obama administration.

Are you sure? Stocks that I own have gone down considerably since he took office. Instead of bringing the troops home as he promised, he has sent even more out. Now he thinks he can run GM better than the board of directors. What next?

Maybe teach some Americans that not everything is black and white, that the problems must be solved together. The whole "one nation under god" is nonsense

America is a divided nation Republicans Vs democrats, north Vs South, African Americans Vs Whities(i am white so i can say that), religious vs atheists and so on

The whole Republicans Vs Democrats always tics me off, the majority has voted live with and work together, but i only see when the democrats win the republicans oppose everything and when the republicans win the democrats oppose everything.

you should thing about what is best for country without thinking in terms of us and them

"Maybe teach some Americans that not everything is black and white..."

Bush is white and Obama is black. What's your point? I didn't vote for Obama, and wouldn't have voted for Bush either.

"The whole "one nation under god" is nonsense"

Now you've really pi$$ed me off . That was politically incorrect. Shame on you. Apparently you believe the lies and innuendos without a thread of proof. At least Bush was taking a stand against the terrorists who murdered over 5,000 Americans.

"but i only see when the democrats win the republicans oppose everything and when the republicans win the democrats oppose everything."

I see that too, and don't like it, but what can I do? When I vote Libertarian or independent, they don't get in, so it's a wasted vote.

"you should thing about what is best for country without thinking in terms of us and them"

OK, I've thought about it. Japan has lots of political parties too. I suppose you vote for the communist party so there won't be opposition, yes?

Nicely put. GA to you.

What i mean seeing things in black & white not race

Now you've really pi$$ed me off . That was politically incorrect. Shame on you. Apparently you believe the lies and innuendos without a thread of proof. At least Bush was taking a stand against the terrorists who murdered over 5,000 Americans.

Politically incorrect? so freedom of speech is only ok when it is patridiotic?

What terrorist? Bush attacked a country that had nothing to do with al qaida en was America's ally for years, while de countries Iran and Afghanistan where most of the terrorist are trained and are located are ignored or like Afghanistan has some troops sent to them.

OK, I've thought about it. Japan has lots of political parties too. I suppose you vote for the communist party so there won't be opposition, yes?

I am not Japanese, the Japanese systems is as locked as the American system, but finally it looks that the democratic party is going to win, but even then nothing will change much, Japanese Politicians do no change much.

I am from Holland and here any party can have a say if they get enough votes there are some recent parties that got a lot more votes so they got seats in the political chamber.

has anyone mentioned John Ringo, I know he's not hard scifi, but once you start reading you cant put it down, the words flow off the page like old Larry Niven. How about we post a list and take a vote. But Amazon does that already.

Here's some fiction about science. Does that count?

http://books.google.com/books?id=X87-3eDB11AC&dq=japan+economy&printsec=frontcover&source=bll&ots=ygKepV_NAV&sig=iNqNYI2dvtPRlq1IzKBVSZoqZZg&hl=en&ei=LHjVSaWlFITCM9CeuIAP&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=18#PPP1,M1

Time to start a new thread.

From Sleepy,

As A UK scifi fan, I concur with most of the choices. I have read and re read many of them over rhe years. I am glad that Anne McCaffery was mentioned a few times as I thought that she had something different and special.

John Wyndham held me in thrall, albeit I was quite young.

Likewise Asmov's Foundation Series for very different reasons.

There is still a lot of SciFi to read!

For a different thread who has read the books of Rutherford, his storytelling views history in a different way; he writes a book about a place, Lonson, Moscow, Dublin, The Forest, Sarum and a newer book on Ireland that I have yet to obtain.

Each writes the history of a place using different generations of the same families showing how the families grow/wither with the change of fortune of the place in time.

Each was a riveting read.

Sleepy