Previous in Forum: How to Test Offshore Winches   Next in Forum: Why Do Some Order Pickers Have Screens?
Close
Close
Close
13 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Associate

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 43

Straight Runs for Pumps

03/31/2009 2:59 AM

Pumps require straight suction and discharge run of pipes. The question is straight run means 'no bend' or no fitting, valve or strainer etc? I mean whether straight run includes valves or strainer or it should just be a pipe. what minimum straight run is recommended?

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#1

Re: straight run for pumps

03/31/2009 3:29 AM

For a non-self-priming pump, provided it has a net positive suction head [NPSH] then it doesn't matter.

The downstream pipework shape is immaterial. The pump will operate simply where its own characteristic curve and the system characteristic curve intersect.

It is good practice to install strainer facilities upstream of a pump, and place that equipment on planned preventative maintenance at suitable intervals.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2550
Good Answers: 103
#4
In reply to #1

Re: straight run for pumps

03/31/2009 6:24 AM

Agreed, this is one area I insist upon (despite the opinion of others) - not to put strainers in suction line, unless you can monitor the pressure there.

Usually our pumps have NPSH (the pump level is kept below the tank oil level) and hence no pressure monitor is kept at suction side.

Several persons have suggested the strainer at inlet. but we have put it at return oil line where we can monitor rather than at pump suction.

Shanii- As far as bendes etc are concerned, since the suction lines are much larger than the dely line, and usually the pumps are kept flooded, and usually the flow velocity (rather the Re) will not be so high so as to have any significant effect.

The 5D min rule is applied to have a laminar stream lined flow.

In our systems say 150LPM pump, the line just comes out of the tank, one 3" elbow (LR) + Tee (for splitting to two pumps- one stand by ) - butterfly valve - pump inlet. there is no possibility (no space) for the 5D.

At outlet also, the additional losses in head due to the short pipe is taken care by the pump. Here too we have space limitation. So practically we do not use the 5D rules except in some areas (espacially where the instrumentation pick-ups, relief valves etc are connected)

__________________
Fantastic ideas for a Fantastic World, I make the illogical logical.They put me in cars,they put me in yer tv.They put me in stereos and those little radios you stick in your ears.They even put me in watches, they have teeny gremlins for your watches
Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster
#10
In reply to #4

Re: straight run for pumps

04/01/2009 4:43 AM

sb

I think you are referring to a filter if you are putting it into the "return oil" line. For a process type centrifugal pump a strainer typically is there to catch nuts and bolts. Strainer holes could be 6 to 8 mm diameter with a free area of roughly double the suction pipe area. It is installed to provide protection of the pump from large foreign object damage. I think that this is what was meant.

I agree whole heartedly that unless there are very good reasons, and then only if Dp gauges can be fitted, filters should not be put into the suction line.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2550
Good Answers: 103
#12
In reply to #10

Re: straight run for pumps

04/01/2009 6:34 AM

You are right, but our filters are of a higher size (typically 100 -200 μ) on the return oil line than the actual ones (10μ) so we habitually call these strainers than filters.

__________________
Fantastic ideas for a Fantastic World, I make the illogical logical.They put me in cars,they put me in yer tv.They put me in stereos and those little radios you stick in your ears.They even put me in watches, they have teeny gremlins for your watches
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Popular Science - Biology - New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member APIX Pilot Plant Design Project - Member - New Member Hobbies - CNC - New Member Fans of Old Computers - ZX-81 - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Centurion, South Africa
Posts: 3921
Good Answers: 97
#2

Re: straight run for pumps

03/31/2009 4:25 AM

The suction pipe is usually bigger than the pump inlet (to minimize losses) the eccentric reducer (flat side on top) is absolutely necessary.

Except for turbulence the pump would not know what fittings are on the suction side.

If proper NPSH calculations is done bend etc would be in order.

Please describe your situation in more detail and better advice may be offered.

__________________
Never do today what you can put of until tomorrow - Student motto
Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 43
#3
In reply to #2

Re: straight run for pumps

03/31/2009 6:01 AM

Actually i just want to know that straight run may or may not contain fittings, valves or strainers if they are arranged inline. In other words if 5D run is coverd in valve strainer and flanges,shouldn't i use pipe as straight run then?

Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#5
In reply to #3

Re: straight run for pumps

03/31/2009 6:49 AM

See #1, #2 and #4.

The shape of the pipe continues to be irrelevant provided there is a NPSH!

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - Retired Piper

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Bayonet Point, Florida
Posts: 635
Good Answers: 61
#6

Re: straight run for pumps

03/31/2009 8:13 AM

This question is too broad.("Behind the detail is the detail")

What type of pump are you asking about? (Centrifugal, Positive Displacement, Sump, Lift, etc.)

What is the pump nozzle configuration? (end suction/top discharge, top suct./top disch, side suct./side disch., inline, etc)

What is the commodity?

What is the suction line and pump size?

Where is the suction source (Tank) relative to the pump?

What is the configuration and length of the suction line?

That is only to name a few of the details that effect a pump suction line.

__________________
Do it once and do it right
Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Biology - New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member APIX Pilot Plant Design Project - Member - New Member Hobbies - CNC - New Member Fans of Old Computers - ZX-81 - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Centurion, South Africa
Posts: 3921
Good Answers: 97
#7

Re: Straight Runs for Pumps

03/31/2009 12:29 PM

You really need to supply more detail. If you are working in mining etc you may have some code to conform with.

I have seen 5 x diam used with meters in mining code. A meter is very susceptible to turbulence and 5 x diam is suggested between the pump (centrifugal) and the meter on the suction side and 10 x diam between strainer and meter.

For most centrifugal pump applications the type and placing of fittings is not that critical.

Bends (even 90deg) are often used next to the eccentric without problems.

An isolating valve on the suction side should not be used for controlling the flow and if no restrictions are caused it should be ok..

A strainer on the suction side may also block up and should preferably only block objects that may block the impeller.

__________________
Never do today what you can put of until tomorrow - Student motto
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: India
Posts: 155
#8

Re: Straight Runs for Pumps

04/01/2009 12:40 AM

2D to 5D straight run in suction is a good practice. Elbows excluded. It creates turbulance. Valve length can be included. Exclude reducer also.

Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster
#9

Re: Straight Runs for Pumps

04/01/2009 4:31 AM

Five pipe diameters straight run length in the suction line to almost any pump is good engineering practice. Even with a good NPSHa margin it is possible to get flow turbulence caused by poor piping design that can be very destructive to pumps.

Hence the API 686 requirement:

The pump suction line shall have a straight run (typically five pipe diameters) between the suction flange and first elbow, tee, valve, reducer, permanent strainer, or other obstruction sufficient to ensure stable and uniform flow at the pump suction nozzle.
Note: A piping straight run length of five pipe diameters, based on the pump
suction nozzle size, is usually sufficient to ensure stable and uniform flow
at the pump suction nozzle.etc etc.

Register to Reply
Associate
APIX Pilot Plant Design Project - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: India
Posts: 27
Good Answers: 1
#11

Re: Straight Runs for Pumps

04/01/2009 5:58 AM

It is basically a good practice to have a straight run between the pump suction nozzle and the first fitting. The first fitting means the first welding point be it a elbow or a strainer. But in actual practice for positive displacement pumps 5D is not mandatory. it is feasible to have this straight run requirment only when the pump is of double suction type. you can refer the below site

http://www.directindustry.com/prod/goulds-pumps/double-suction-pump-for-high-temperature-process-20610-220177.html

Thanks,

Kumaran

Register to Reply
Participant
Indonesia - Member - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4
#13

Re: Straight Runs for Pumps

04/03/2009 6:43 AM

The main objective of straight run in pump suction is to get stable flow.

May be this simple rule could answer your question (taken from Troubleshooting Centrifugal Pumps and Their Systems by Ron Palgrave).

Straight run is just be a pipe, not included the valve or strainer.
At least 5D should be provided after bend/valve/strainer. If it not possible, consider for using cascade bend.


Cascade bend

Register to Reply
Register to Reply 13 comments
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (2); b v rao (1); Hendrik (2); Kumaran (1); PennPiper (1); PWSlack (2); sb (2); shanii (1); tromix (1)

Previous in Forum: How to Test Offshore Winches   Next in Forum: Why Do Some Order Pickers Have Screens?

Advertisement