2003 Hyundai Santa Fe - Jerking While Idling

A 4-stroke 2.5hp outboard engine was doing this recently - until the caburettor was cleaned.

Carbuerator has already been adressed. sorry I didn't include that in my e-mail. Thank you for your response. i do appreciate the try.

Hi trcymre,

I had a similar experience with my Nissan. In fact, I posted my problem here in CR4:

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/28485

I don't think it's the same problem but the guys gave a lot of suggestions and one of them might be applicable to your situation.

regards,

Vulcan

Am I to guess it is an automatic?

It is an automatic. I have some new information. The timing belt and valves were just replaced, but i am told that if the dealership missed a tooth that it will have the same jerking motion. I am kinda surprised. If that is the case, should I not be having trouble when I am going through the gears as well? Right now it only happens when I am stopped.

If they did miss a tooth i would suspect you would notice something wrong in addition to the idle. When you say there was only one code, was that information retrieved from an actual test scanner? If not I would have the car thoroughly scanned while running, preferably on a dyno to trigger the codes that would show up it you had a sensor failing or similar issue. The OBD may give codes... or not, but the actual scanner should pick up on something.

It was an actual computer scanner. it did not detect any other codes except for the evap code. but I am told that sometimes, sensors could be faulty but still not show up as a code on the scanner. That is why the dealership is telling me they would have to charge me to take it apart to see what the real issue is. But I can't afford another 800.00 right now. The car has me almost completely tapped out.

Interesting issue, sounds like it could be the torque converter. Most major engine problems would show up on a good scan, which leads me to lean more towards mechanical.

When you say jerking... Is it like the engine is fighting the breaks? trying to engage the transmission while stopped. It is only when in gear at idle? or all the time (even in neutral/park)?

jerking...like bucking. yes, like the brakes are trying to engage. It only does it when I am at idle but still in drive....like at a stop sign or a red light. When I am moving, it accelerates just fine.

sounds like a drivetrain/transmission/torque converter issue to me.

I would check the sensors and vacuum line of the EGR valve. A non or dysfunctional EGR can mimic torque converter trouble.

If the torque converter clutch solenoid is sticking, this will be the symptom. But, on a 2003 model, that should turn on the check engine light. Have someone scan it again and look at the TCC solenoid while the car is moving and having the problem.

Will it do it in reverse? A lock up converter would never be applied in reverse that I am aware of.

Does raising the idle speed a tiny bit with the gas pedal make it smooth out? If the battery was disconnected for any time while the timing belt was done, it may need to relearn some things, idle speed being one.

If the timing belt was installed one tooth off, the cam timing will be retarded. That will lower power when accelerating. Does your full power acceleration seem less?

Good luck.

as long as my foot is pressing the gas, I don't feel any jerking at all. It does it in reverse only if my foot is not depressing the gas pedal. acceleration is only retarded on an incline.

I experienced this also and the pro said it was the torque converter lockout solenoid malfunctioning. But I had noticed that if I increased my stopping distance two or three lengths it wouldn't happen. So I practiced safer following distances and it healed. The pro was astonished no more incidents recorded in the ECM, saved $500

It sounds as if your torque converter clutch solenoid did not vent fluid to release the clutch fast enough. Good call on your part to spot that.

In accordance with the latest from Bwire, does the car continue to jerk as long as you are stopped?

Can you turn up the idle slightly?

How long has the problem been there?

yes, the car will continue to jerk while stopped no matter how much time passes. I don't know how to turn up the idle on the car. i just noticed it was lower after they put the new timing belt on. The problem has been consistently worse for two months...right after the timing belt was replaced. it started out jerking every min or so, now it is continual.

The check engine light for the evap code has been on for approx 10,000 mi, but until they got into it for the timing belt...it never jerked at stops while idling. do you think they could've messed with the idle air control or something while they where in there? the idle does sound a lot lower. i wish I had a diagram to tell me where the idle control was so I could do it myself. But then I wonder, will that mess up the computer settings? I mean, it seems like such a delicate balance that if I mess with something, it will throw something else out.

We have had 2 or 3 Santa Fe owners on the site recently. Perhaps one of them would be good enough to let us all know what the idle speed is. You could then compare it to yours. There was a label under the hood that might tell you the idle speed, if you can find it.

Till we get an answer, do you have a tachometer on the vehicle? If so, try to bring the engine up by 100 RPM and see if that stops the problem. I will try to chase down the recommended idle RPM.

Are you still on speaking terms with the service facility that did the timing belt?

I have been cordial. They said they would fix their mistake, but I would have to travel 8 hours back to the dealership in West Virginia as I was on vacation when the timing belt snapped. they will not let another dealer fix it. I could adjust it if I knew where to adjust the idle at. I don't actually know what to turn to adjust it. If I had a diagram of where to find things, I would not have a problem with it.

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/whatsNew/whatsNew.jsp;jsessionid=E239D312EA5414380580D15654483A29.diyprod1-b2c1?intcmp=bz_1

The EVAP code may be the 'Hounds of Baskerville' in this case. A small leak in a vacuum line could have grown and now be letting enough air leak in to cause a lean mixture misfire. OR the evap warning code could be a leaky fuel tank cap( it should hold pressure on the tank. Or it could be a fuel injector getting sticky or erratic. If it is not fuel injected, a slight air leak in the intake manifold gaskets or between the carb and manifold will cause the miss. Or it could be a sticking valve. Try running a couple of tanks of Chevron or Shell premium AND a can of BG fuel injector cleaner.

Has the oil consumption increased since the timing belt break? I am not familiar with that engine, but many are 'interference' types, which means the valves will be struck by the rising piston if the timing is off, like when the timing belt breaks. This bends valve stems. Did they have to rework the valves when the belt broke? If so, perhaps one was bent a tiny bit and not replaced, and has now burned where it was no longer seating perfectly, or increased oil leakage past the valve stem seal has caused carbon sponge build-up on the intake valve. That 'sponge' will tend to absorb some of the minute amount of fuel used at idle and not allow uniform mixture in the combustion chamber--causing a miss at idle.

A leaking engine valve will be easily detected with either a vacuum guage or a simple compression test.

The answer is in! According to the diagnostics testing at the dealership. (Another 95.00) The coil pack needs to be replaced and because i have been running it for so long with the evap code on, I now have to get ANOTHER injector flush! AHHHH.

Does it make sense that the problem is a coil pack when the evap code is coming up on the computer diagnostic?

It makes sense if that corrected the problem

This is a perfect time to divulge another of my rules for auto repairs.

If the results do not agree with the theory, invent a new theory!

Ok, so I tell the guy that i will drop it off on Thursday to get the repair done on the coil pack. this morning I start the car and my exhaust smells so bad I can hardly stand it. I started looking at some of my paperwork and it seems that firestone has already put a new coil pack in it. so I call them and they said that it may have been a faulty one and they will replace it. Now I'm getting a rattling when I step on the gas pedal. Is this related to not getting the coil pack replaced right away? The dealership says they did a thorough diagnostic on the evap code, but they are not getting any new codes. it just doesn't make sense to me. I hope I don't waste any more money on this thing because they missed something.

If the coil is bad, the spark will be erratic. That can and will cause some pre-ignition, and a lot more unburned fuel as well as poor performance . It is possible that you are being told the truth.

Okay, final answer...I took it to the Pro's and they replaced the other coil pack and the spark plug. The car no longer jerks. the evap code is still on. There is a lot of noise coming from the timing belt area. The guy says he suspects the timing coupling pulleys. Wouldn't this be looked at when they replaced the timing belt? rattling still occurs when I step on the accelerator.

Just a note. thank you all for helping me through this. i appreciate the wisdom. I am learning so much about my baby. And you are helping me to not get taken advantage of.

I am having the EXACT same problem with my 2004 Santa Fe... Just got it serviced, for 1,250 bucks... they did some reset, and trans flush, and timing belt and some other coils and belts maybe... just got it back yesterday and its doing the SAME thing still but more often now, but mines happening as I am driving it like jerks, or skips, I dont know how to explain it... and now the pick up is very bad and makes a loud noise until I hit 30mph....

Did you go to the dealership to get a diagnostic? I found out the hard way that they are the only ones that have certain scan tools for certain functions of the OBD. So if a computer code is coming up, they can tell you exactly where it is coming from. The evap code on my car is gone now. But firestone didn't catch that it was actually the 2nd coil pack causing the problem. they replaced the first coil pack and did not do a check to see if the other one was going out. So naturally, my car continued to jerk with the engine light still on. which they attributed to a faulty hose somewhere. When I took it to the dealer, they were able to diagnose quickly. At first I didn't believe them because I didn't see where the evap code could've been the coil pack, but now my car is completely jerk free and the engine light just went off by itself! Of course I didn't have the dealership fix it because they wanted to charge me 200.00 more to fix the issue than the guys down the street. But i did need the dealership and their "special" diagnostic tools to diagnose the problem first. It's a lot more than just a computer scanner.

Yeah I did.. and they told me nothing showed up on the diagnostic, so they went ahead and did some reset and said that should fix the problem, but it did not.. Im taking it back Wed night for a Thursday appointment, so I hope this time around they fix it, and I sure hope I dont have to pay another penney because I already paid 1100 bucks and nothing was fixed... so we will see! Im pretty sure they did replace a coil though... and they did replace the timing belt and some other stuff too. so Im hoping thats why my car has bad pick up since they did that, i was told maybe they didnt adjust the timing enough or something... but it still does jerk, and they said they fixed that part... but my check engine light isnt on, so who knows what is going on! hopefully I will know thursday, but I will bring up to them what you said, since we seem to have the same problem, so thank you!!

I know that when my engine light was turned off after the work was done at Firestone, I had to wait for the light to come back on before i could get it checked again. the computer did not show that BOTH coil packs were out. So they only replaced one and turned off the light. The diagnostic will not work if the light is not on. it usually takes a couple of cycles of turning the car on and off before it comes back on. When it came back on they were able to determine that the OTHER coil was still making it jerk. Your jerking could be an air mixture problem or the idle air control. There are some things that the computer will not catch that could cause the problem. I have heard of people having a leak in the vacuum line, or a faulty O2 sensor. I have even heard of some people that have had a MAF or MAP sensor go out just enough that the computer did not catch it. All these things could cause the problem. Also, you have an in house fuel filter, you may need to consider that as well, although most in house fuel filters last for the life of the vehicle now...what ever the "life" of the vehicle is. The another thing to consider would be a flaw in the OBD computer itself. I pray they find it soon and that it is inexpensive.

me too! thank you... it does it for like 4 or 5 days straight, then stops for a day or 2... so when I brought it in yesterday again they asked if they could drive it with me so they could feel what I was talking about and ofcourse it didnt do it... they took it out again today and it didnt do it, so they called and said they will take it out again tomorrow... I told them its due to happen because it hasnt happened for 2 days haha.. so we will see! Whatever it is, I hope this time around it will be fixed, and i wont have to bring it back again! I will update when I find out anything!

Well, they found nothing again... had me drive it with them for 30 mins when I dropped it off and it didnt do anything, and they kept it for 2 more days and drove it and didnt feel anything.. They said the reset they did can take up to 2 weeks to fix, they reset everything to factory settings... so so far so good. hasnt done it in over a week, and normally it would happen for 4 days straight and stop for 2 days and start again, and it hasnt, so im keeping my fingers crossed that its just fixed itself witht he reset! If not, they told me to bring it right in when I feel it so a mechanic can hop in the car with me and feel what im talking about so they can determine a problem!

so what was the problem? or did you sell your car> lol

I have the same problem.. my mechanic friend said it might be the cruise control and I havent seen that on any of your threads.. something about the sensor or the relay for the cruise control..

Welcome to the site. If your bad ignition coil acts like most of the bad ignition coils that I have seen, it will allow the high voltage to jump to ground instead of traveling to the spark plugs. You can usually see this at night with the engine running in gear and the air conditioning on. (Use an assistant to sit in the car and hold the brakes well.) In the darkness you would see the white sparks jumping from the coil pack areas. If you can not see anything, spray some water on the coil packs. If they are failing, the water should cause the voltage to jump to ground, and the car will run much worse. Good luck.

is your a/c on when this happens, if so turn it off, if the problem stop you need to raise the idle arm, it's located right next to the accelerator line, it should only need to be adjusted slightly