Previous in Forum: 2003 Hyundai Santa Fe - Jerking While Idling   Next in Forum: AC / DC Adaptor - Class 2 Power Supply
Close
Close
Close
4 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Anonymous Poster

Hydrogen as fuel

04/29/2009 10:33 AM

Hello All,

We have heard of fuel cells which generate Hydrogen for use as fuel in cars. We have also seen many roadside vendors who generate Hydrogen in a small cylinder to inflate the ballons.

If generating Hydrogen was so easy for the raodside vendor, then why this research about fuel cells

Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#1

Re: Hydrogen as fuel

04/29/2009 10:41 AM

Fuel cells are an efficient way of obtaining electricity from combustible fuels.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4484
Good Answers: 246
#2

Re: Hydrogen as fuel

04/29/2009 12:50 PM

You've confused the terminology. A fuel cell consumes hydrogen (H2) and oxygen (O2) to produce electricity and water. The opposite device, an electrolyser (electrolysis unit), is used to "generate Hydrogen for use as fuel." An electrolyser drives the reverse of the fuel cell reaction, consuming electricity to produce H2 and O2 from water. Fuel cells are very expensive and the subject of research to drive down cost and improve efficiency. Electrolysis units are cheap and can be made by any garage tinkerer or third grade science teacher.

An electrolysis unit splits water into H2 and O2. The energy value of the resulting H2 is generally about 60% of the energy that does the splitting. For this reason, it is cheaper to generate hydrogen from methane, (already a high energy fuel) in a process called reforming. This process is used for more than 90% of all the commercially produced H2.

A "fuel cell" is the reverse of an electrolysis unit: it takes in H2 and O2 and produces water and electrical energy (the electrical energy being the useful part). Typically, very expensive materials are required to build an efficient, durable fuel cell. Fuel cell cars are essentially electric cars, and usually include batteries to store energy from the fuel cell for use during peak demand -- typically the fuel cell cannot produce electricity at a rate adequate for good acceleration.

The confusion in terminology has been promoted mainly by scam artists who sell electrolysis units to ostensibly improve fuel efficiency in cars. (Dennis Lee sells the HAFC -- Hydro Assist Fuel Cell -- at about $1000 each, which is not a fuel cell, but instead a simple electrolyser which any garage experimenter can make for $10.) The term "fuel cell" sounds high tech, because it is the technology used in the incredibly expensive* prototypes auto manufacturers have made to demonstrate the idea of running cars on stored hydrogen. I suppose that Lee hopes that the confusion in terminology will make people think his units are valuable.

* Here is a one watt fuel cell for $124.95. To replace an average car engine of 100,000 watts, you could use 100,000 of these (for $12,495,000.00) and a 100,000 watt electric motor!

__________________
There is more to life than just eating mice.
Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Hobbies - Musician - Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Moses Lake, WA, USA, Thulcandra - The Silent Planet (C.S. Lewis)
Posts: 4216
Good Answers: 194
#3

Re: Hydrogen as fuel

04/29/2009 4:04 PM

Guest,

"roadside vendors who generate Hydrogen in a small cylinder to inflate the ballons."

I think you mean helium. I would think that filling balloons with hydrogen for use by children would be dangerous enough to be illegal.

Gases in cylinders are not generated in them, they are simply filled from another source.

Mike

__________________
"Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone." - Ayn Rand
Reply
Anonymous Poster
#4

Re: Hydrogen as fuel

04/30/2009 9:20 AM

Thanks all for responding and educating me.

Reply
Reply to Forum Thread 4 comments

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (1); Blink (1); Mikerho (1); PWSlack (1)

Previous in Forum: 2003 Hyundai Santa Fe - Jerking While Idling   Next in Forum: AC / DC Adaptor - Class 2 Power Supply

Advertisement