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How About a Rating for Bad Answers?

05/29/2009 12:29 AM

First, let me preface this by saying that a rating for "bad" answers is probably impractical.

However, there are so many answers being presented that are truly, really BAD. There have been replies to questions in just the last few days that are stupid, illogical, ludicrous, or subject to leaving someone who attempts these actions wide open to some form of legal liability.

To expand, I wonder how many engineers are using this site. We as engineers do have ethical responsibilities; to the Fundamental Canons, to the Rules of Practice, to Professional Obligations. Such things as "engineers shall undertake assignments ONLY when qualified by education or experience in the specific field involved", or "hold paramount the safety, health and welfare of the public".

It just bothers me a lot that there are people using this site that seem to not get it.

Feedback, please.

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#1

Re: How About a Rating for Bad Answers?

05/29/2009 1:02 AM

Just rate it 'off topic' and let everyone else tear it up if you can't say why it's a bad answer yourself.

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#2

Re: How About a Rating for Bad Answers?

05/29/2009 2:03 AM

Because anyone could mark a post as "good" or "bad" it is better to use the off topic rating or a good old-fashioned clearly-written response explaining WHY the post was so bad using facts and web links. After all others who are less knolwdgable look to CR4 for furthering their education and may have no idea what a good or bad answer is, and the bad answer rating could easily be misused by people to attacke others cerdibility (yes it has happened before on CR4 before).

We are doing fine without it.

To expand, I wonder how many engineers are using this site

Well myself for one, and I have taken a fair amount of flak from non-engineers for some of my responses telling people (in no uncertain terms) they should NOT be doing the dangerous electrical work they are asking ludicrously simple questions about.

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: How About a Rating for Bad Answers?

05/29/2009 3:54 AM

That's exactly what I was going to write...
Ok, my version would have been shorter and maybe funnier...
GA from the Cat
Del

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: How About a Rating for Bad Answers?

05/29/2009 5:24 AM

Ditto, with an addition,

I am yet to find something in electrical work that is not dangerous, if properly done

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#8
In reply to #2

Re: How About a Rating for Bad Answers?

05/29/2009 9:17 AM

GA I agree in that to ask about electrical problem and the how to fix here is a accident wait to happen. No one should work with electricity with out some knowledgeable supervision.

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#5

Re: How About a Rating for Bad Answers?

05/29/2009 7:02 AM

i agree with you

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#6

Re: How About a Rating for Bad Answers?

05/29/2009 8:21 AM

Your point is good. Many questions involve the same kind of situation, e.g., "How can I connect six phase, 617 VAC to my HO train?" kind of questions. It's an open forum and difficult to control in that respect. I would think anyone calling himself an engineer (no matter the licensure) would have the stones to say, "No, I don't know enough about that to even offer an opinion."

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#14
In reply to #6

Re: How About a Rating for Bad Answers?

05/30/2009 2:39 AM

"How can I connect six phase, 617 VAC to my HO train?"

Now consider the dumbest member you can think of and they are reading that question. What are the chances that they are going to think "What a stupid $^#&@%* idea!!!". That will be burned into their memory. It did its job. We are sort of a running public service announcement, among many other things.

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#7

Re: How About a Rating for Bad Answers?

05/29/2009 9:07 AM

If we, all, would just ignore the stupid, ignorant, dangerous questions they would go away.

But no, someone just has to set the record straight and respond to the jerks and off we go.

IGNORE THEM!!

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#10
In reply to #7

Re: How About a Rating for Bad Answers?

05/29/2009 12:16 PM

Then nobody would ever talk to me!

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#11
In reply to #7

Re: How About a Rating for Bad Answers?

05/29/2009 10:01 PM

The problem with that approach is that some of them won't go away. They might have an agenda they're trying to push, so they will stick around as long as they think they can get someone to come over to their side. They could also see silence as acceptance of their ideas.

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: How About a Rating for Bad Answers?

05/30/2009 12:34 AM

Hey That's no way to talk about the HHO guys

I think the guest is our favorite squirrel...

Seriously This subject does come up from time to time.

I would say that experience & knowledge are what determine the accuracy of the posts. Personally I very rarely reply to threads started by guests, which filters out a bunch of the dumbass questions.

An off topic vote & a good dressing down, usually does it. LOL

The freewheeling open nature of this forum is a double edged sword, sometimes from the mouths of babes, the occasional gem appears.

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#16
In reply to #7

Re: How About a Rating for Bad Answers?

05/30/2009 7:42 AM

IGNORE THEM!!

To expand the concept slightly:

1. Do not feed the TROLLS

2. The only thing more futile than arguing with a fool is thinking you can win the argument.

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#9

Re: How About a Rating for Bad Answers?

05/29/2009 11:13 AM

Oh, I get it. You're all talking about me, aren't you?

The "stupid, illigoical and ludicrous" part totally gives it away.

My only suggestion to reduce foolish contributions by idiots like myself would be to require registration for commenting. My Guest status makes it far too easy and compelling to just chime in annonymously and mention about how I've recently been using half-shaved rabbits to smuggle a few dozen gross of those "disappearing clothes" nekkid girlie ink pens across state lines.

See what I mean?

Yes, morons like myself could just register annonymously. But we're a lazy lot. It's not worth the trouble after commenting privleges are revoked once or twice.

Hopefully that would take care of at least some of the problem. Anyway, that's my $0.02.

So...anybody want to buy some pens?

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#13

Re: How About a Rating for Bad Answers?

05/30/2009 2:23 AM

I usually just ignore them and hope they "go away" by their own hand, if you know what I mean. But then I'm a big fan of The Darwin Awards.

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#15

Re: How About a Rating for Bad Answers?

05/30/2009 5:16 AM

I think that most people have said enough and correctly already.

This post will allow me to follow the thread further. And well done for bringing this up in the first place, its close to my heart....

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#17

Re: How About a Rating for Bad Answers?

05/30/2009 1:26 PM

I thank all of you for your input.

To repeat, as I stated in my initial post, a rating for "bad" answers is impractical.

One purpose of this thread is to start a discussion about our (as engineers) obligations and responsibilities to the public, the profession, and ourselves.The other purpose is to point out the problems that poor, impractical, illogical or simply bad answers present when people who may not know better accept them as gospel or fact.

Certainly, when someone presents a reply which may be "bad", but essentially harmless, then I, as many state they do, will simply ignore them. However, let me present a couple of scenarios; let's say we have this description:

"The flappyjammit is always to be secured with six rotary over-center unobtainium latches; failure to use the proper latching sequence, replacing latches with other than unobtainium latches, or failure to secure each latch can result in personal injury or death".

So, we have people who have submitted answers such as: "HEY, y'all don't need no unobtainium latches on yer flappyjammit. Y'all don't even need all six latches; them engineers jest say that so they can (select answer) sell more parts/scare you into taking yer flappyjammit back to them to get her fixed/I been runnin' my flappyjammit since 1969 with only 2 balin' wire latches, and she works jest fine". "After all, them engineers ain't got no real job like folks like you and me; they just sit around chasin' (select answer) women/men and count up their millions of (select answer) dollars/pounds/euros/other type of money); jest 'cause they been to school don't mean they know nothin'".

Or this: "Just disconnect the safety valves; they aren't important; nothing will happen. I tell everyone to disconnect them, since they are of no benefit."

Situations like this, I will call someone down about this. If anyone proposes something which could get someone hurt or killed, or wide open to lawsuits, they need to be challenged.

Again, if their suggestion is harmless, then I will tend to ignore it.

Otherwise, they need to be challenged.

Engineers are professionals. We need to act in a professional manner to provide a degree of leadership that can be looked to as an example of how people should act, live and practice their craft.

Maybe I'm an idealist; I believe that people can do better, if they want to.
Note that we as engineers possess knowledge obtained through practice, experience and education that the general public does not possess. With that, we also have responsibilities to ensure that we practice professionally.

This has probably cost me at times. However, I can sleep at night with a clean conscience, knowing that I've given my best to live up to my professional obligations as an engineer.

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#19
In reply to #17

Re: How About a Rating for Bad Answers?

05/31/2009 8:52 AM

Well put.

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#25
In reply to #17

Re: How About a Rating for Bad Answers?

06/01/2009 12:14 PM

Your bad answer example reminded me of an elegant engineering design was discovered and nearly thwarted earlier here. A liquid nitrogen cooled detector was designed properly to be vented with a simple spring and O-ring seal pressure relief valve. The approximately one square foot plate with the valve was bolted down with six 4-40 bolts despite much thicker side walls that could accommodate stronger bolts. The pressure relief valve became stuck from an ice dam build up. (I think somebody spilled a beverage.) The pressure built up with the boil off of the liquid nitrogen until the six bolt heads snapped off with a crack and a burp of nitrogen gas. The machinists charged with repairing this detector chamber originally wanted to make the system better by using bigger bolts to hold off more pressure. Cooler minds intervened before this happened for heavier bolts would only mean failure at higher pressures.

This scenario shows why we must police the answers here in some fashion. Well meaning people can easily suggest unknowingly dangerous answers to a problem. How CR4 could do this, I don't know.

At the same time though, acting on a dangerous piece of equipment with solely the information obtain from anonymous advisors, just might raise the average IQ a few points.

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#26
In reply to #25

Re: How About a Rating for Bad Answers?

06/01/2009 7:53 PM

You mean everything I read on the internet isn't true?

Any advice you receive here is "Buyer Beware" & worth what you pay for it

If you can make a good case for why your flapjamit only needs 5 OEM clamps, fair enough, the only people you have to answer to are the survivors, local authorites & your insurance company...

There is no contract implied or otherwise, everyone here is obligated to do their own due diligence.

The level of moderation on CR4 is adequate.

CR4 is no more than a forum for all of us to exchange ideas & bears no responsibility for anyone who "Trys it at home"

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#31
In reply to #26

Re: How About a Rating for Bad Answers?

06/02/2009 8:18 AM

You are 100% right of course, but the dumb ones just may not know or understand that!!!

Therefore we still must take some responsibility for what we post.

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#30
In reply to #25

Re: How About a Rating for Bad Answers?

06/02/2009 8:12 AM

Good Post, GA from me.

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#18

Re: How About a Rating for Bad Answers?

05/30/2009 6:57 PM

You can pretty much figure that your post that got not a single vote as a "good answer" was a "bad answer".

We have gone around on the site with ratings of "GAs". If I at all deserve Guru status here on this forum, it is not because I know so much, but because I know who knows more than I do.

We do not know really who all reads this forum, and sometimes some of the answers if considered viable by youths who have been introduced into the forum, could actually be considered Bad, from the point of view, of Deadly.

Hence I do not oppose a "Deadly" category for judgements concerning "Bad Answers".

We were asked for permission to allow for this.

Some of the questions come from this seem to be trick questions, which while producing some great information, really are dangerous if there is no backstory for some of the assignments as phrased, do come to us short of detail, which can kill people, if combined with half knowledge, and half question, for hotshots with great motive to show up and perform beyond their knowledge. I am aware that High Schoolers have been encouraged to nose around here.

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#20

Re: How About a Rating for Bad Answers?

05/31/2009 9:34 PM

I think we need more ratings for Del's answers

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#21
In reply to #20

Re: How About a Rating for Bad Answers?

06/01/2009 12:02 AM

How about a 1 thru 5 "paw" rating.

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#22
In reply to #21

Re: How About a Rating for Bad Answers?

06/01/2009 1:34 AM

and a catnip rating

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#23
In reply to #20

Re: How About a Rating for Bad Answers?

06/01/2009 2:46 AM

What! You need to consider "Fur"-ther areas?

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#24
In reply to #20

Re: How About a Rating for Bad Answers?

06/01/2009 11:17 AM

Bad answers from our favorite feline should warrant

5 fur balls

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#27
In reply to #24

Re: How About a Rating for Bad Answers?

06/01/2009 8:05 PM

Can we agree that a Bad Answer, is a Deadly Answer?

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#28
In reply to #27

Re: How About a Rating for Bad Answers?

06/01/2009 10:16 PM

It all depends on the context

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#29

Re: How About a Rating for Bad Answers?

06/02/2009 6:09 AM

I wholeheartedly agree that there have been some very bad answers to relatively humble questions and support the proposal for a "Bad Answer" button.

However, just look at this thread! Some posters have gone on and on about bad QUESTIONS when that wasn't the subject! No wonder we get bad ANSWERS!

Rant over.

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