Previous in Forum: Any applications for this?   Next in Forum: One possible way to start a nuclear fusion reaction
Close
Close
Close
21 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Near Delaware Water Gap
Posts: 1324
Good Answers: 83

It Came from Outer Space

12/04/2009 9:45 AM

The ubiquitous 'they' have been kicking this around for awhile, and now it has the green light.

California regulators on Thursday approved an ambitious project to beam solar energy from space starting in 2016.

Under a power purchase agreement approved by the California Public Utilities Commission, utility Pacific Gas & Electric will purchase electricity from technology provider Solaren if it successfully deploys its space-based solar collectors, which would be the first of its kind...

Solaren's plan calls for using satellites equipped with solar photovoltaic panels and mirrors to generate electricity, which is transmitted via microwaves to a ground receiver station in Fresno County, Calif. The receiver then converts the radio frequency energy to electricity and it is fed into the power grid.

Here's the rest.

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#1

Re: It Came from Outer Space

12/04/2009 11:34 AM

What happens when it rains?

Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster
#2
In reply to #1

Re: It Came from Outer Space

12/04/2009 12:51 PM

It never rains in sunny California

Fa, la, la......

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Popular Science - Biology - New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member APIX Pilot Plant Design Project - Member - New Member Hobbies - CNC - New Member Fans of Old Computers - ZX-81 - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Centurion, South Africa
Posts: 3921
Good Answers: 97
#3

Re: It Came from Outer Space

12/04/2009 1:35 PM

Is this what Tesla had in mind?

__________________
Never do today what you can put of until tomorrow - Student motto
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: California
Posts: 2363
Good Answers: 63
#4
In reply to #3

Re: It Came from Outer Space

12/04/2009 2:53 PM

Would hate to be on e of the people in the soon to me micrwave oven formerly known as Fresno county. It seemed to be more than hot enough there in the summer before, hate to imagine how it will feel now.

Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Biology - New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member APIX Pilot Plant Design Project - Member - New Member Hobbies - CNC - New Member Fans of Old Computers - ZX-81 - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Centurion, South Africa
Posts: 3921
Good Answers: 97
#5
In reply to #4

Re: It Came from Outer Space

12/04/2009 11:37 PM

I hope they will be careful with the aiming of that beam.

Imagine a telephone call from a sheep farm in SA or OZ.

"Sir can you send that microwave beam again my sheep is only half cooked and I cannot do any thing with then."

"NO NO NO not there, that was my homestead."

__________________
Never do today what you can put of until tomorrow - Student motto
Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Engineering Fields - Transportation Engineering - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Technical Fields - Procurement - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member Engineering Fields - Architectural Engineering - New Member Technical Fields - Marketing/Advertising - New Member Engineering Fields - Food Process Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mariposa Ca
Posts: 5800
Good Answers: 114
#6
In reply to #4

Re: It Came from Outer Space

12/05/2009 12:08 AM

What else are they supposed to do in Mendota, without any water to grow melons?

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Orlando
Posts: 242
Good Answers: 3
#19
In reply to #3

Re: It Came from Outer Space

12/10/2009 3:29 PM

I think maybe. But that would have been a conceptional idea. We are not ready yet for the technology.

Register to Reply
Guru
Panama - Member - New Member Hobbies - CNC - New Member Engineering Fields - Marine Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Retired Engineers / Mentors - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Panama
Posts: 4273
Good Answers: 213
#7

Re: It Came from Outer Space

12/05/2009 4:31 AM

You don't suppose this sort of public policy has anything to do with the fact that California is bankrupt, do you?

Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Engineering Fields - Transportation Engineering - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Technical Fields - Procurement - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member Engineering Fields - Architectural Engineering - New Member Technical Fields - Marketing/Advertising - New Member Engineering Fields - Food Process Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mariposa Ca
Posts: 5800
Good Answers: 114
#8
In reply to #7

Re: It Came from Outer Space

12/05/2009 6:33 AM

Public policy as determined by ballot proposition

the lawmakers are so impotent they have abdicated their responsibilities to the minority that is the electorate.

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Orlando
Posts: 242
Good Answers: 3
#9

Re: It Came from Outer Space

12/05/2009 8:16 AM

I think this alleged technology is nothing more than bogus and where CA is getting scammed.

Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Engineering Fields - Transportation Engineering - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Technical Fields - Procurement - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member Engineering Fields - Architectural Engineering - New Member Technical Fields - Marketing/Advertising - New Member Engineering Fields - Food Process Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mariposa Ca
Posts: 5800
Good Answers: 114
#14
In reply to #9

Re: It Came from Outer Space

12/06/2009 6:32 PM

PG&E only contracted to by any power that is produced

the investors in the scheme are the one's being scammed

Register to Reply
3
Power-User

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Western Colorado, USA
Posts: 202
Good Answers: 16
#10

Re: It Came from Outer Space

12/05/2009 11:46 AM

This power generating scheme is not new, the idea has been batted round for many years. In concept and theory it is doable, but in practice, is very difficult to accomplish. The sort of easy parts, putting the solar panels up in space and converting their output into microwave energy and the ground station to convert the microwaves back into electricity. The really difficult part is keeping the space platform synchronized in position over the land base and keeping the microwave beam tightly focused. This is not as easy as one might think, it is not the same as our communication satellites, they could move around a bit without a problem as their beams are much less focused and are of fairly low power. They are also small and comparatively easy to maintain their position, keeping a very large solar array and power station in locked position is much more difficult and would take significant power itself.

Keeping a multi-megawatt beam tightly focused on a comparatively small target is very difficult to say the least. Yes, you would not want to pass through that beam either, it would be a no-fly zone and it would also be dangerous on the ground as well.

Then there are the questions of over all efficiency and maintenance, at this point in time, even IF something could be put together that could possibly work, it would not be cost/price competitive with any of the current power generating technologies. Maybe in two or three decades, this proposal might be worth looking into but right now, it is a pipe dream (the California legislature specializes in pipe dreams).

Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 3)
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Germany 49° 26' N, 7° 46' O
Posts: 1950
Good Answers: 109
#11

Re: It Came from Outer Space

12/05/2009 12:01 PM

Hi,

there is a comparable japanese project, so USA will compete.

Cost is near 100x conventional.

What about beaming to the ocean? Or desert?

Better certainly not to convert to microvawes but mirror down to big boiler.

RHABE

Register to Reply
Power-User
Hobbies - CNC - New Member Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 163
Good Answers: 6
#12

Re: It Came from Outer Space

12/06/2009 2:53 PM

I think our governor got here in somewhat the same fashion.......

beware the misplaced decimal point.......

Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Bristol, Tennessee
Posts: 1177
Good Answers: 58
#13

Re: It Came from Outer Space

12/06/2009 5:51 PM

Like I said before, "You're gonna cook some ducks".

AND The objects in orbit are orbiting the Earth as a whole gravitational sink, not it's magnetic poles or anything like that. SO when the Earth does a precession, nutation, spin speed change, or anything like that, the stupid satellite will be off target. You can use reaction wheels to correct aim, I guess, that's what the Hubble Telescope uses. BUT guess what, they wear out. NOW WHAT are you going to do. Geosynchronous orbit is way too far out for the Shuttle to go out for a repair call.

Hey, folks, concentrate on things that you can use right here. Get the nuclear waste depository open, and lets get independent.

__________________
mike k
Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 39
Good Answers: 1
#15

Re: It Came from Outer Space

12/07/2009 8:14 AM

Wouldn't this accentuate "Global Warming"?

__________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Transcendia
Posts: 2963
Good Answers: 93
#16

Re: It Came from Outer Space

12/10/2009 1:05 PM

This idea has been around for many years now.

It has been batted around on this forum as well.

When the concept and ideas first came to my attention many years ago, I remember there was a reported downside, as there was supposedly the danger of ionization where the microwave beam came through the atmosphere likely to cause a hole in the ozone layer.

Is this, or is it not, a real danger?

__________________
You don't get wise because you got old, you get old because you were wise.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Germany 49° 26' N, 7° 46' O
Posts: 1950
Good Answers: 109
#17
In reply to #16

Re: It Came from Outer Space

12/10/2009 2:54 PM

Hi,

ionisation will need an energy of above 10eV per ion and this is unlikely.

Much earlier there will be severe excitation and re-radiation in any direction, and also heating (acceleration) of charged particles in the radiation belts that will act as a more or less good absorber.

Still earlier will be local breakdown (arcing) by too high field strengths.

This together with the problems of ultrahigh-power microwave amplifiers will soon cancel this approach.

But I suppose that the other possibility with steerable mirrors focused onto an ocean based evaporator will come to reality as an experimental unit and then be recognised as much too expensive.

RHABE

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Power-User

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Orlando
Posts: 242
Good Answers: 3
#18
In reply to #17

Re: It Came from Outer Space

12/10/2009 3:26 PM

Thank you RHABE!

Appears that you are in queue with what I was getting at. Until we maybe get to such microwave technology where 90+++ efficiency can be achieved, then this subject is only moot, at best. BS in lay terms. Meanwhile, perhaps we should just concentrate on improving earthbound solar energy capture.

Too, I agree with your other opinions, in that I have no forte at all with atmospheric degradation or other ramifications. I do like that you seem to be looking ahead!

If true, that CA is to invest in this: it only suggests to me that the government of CA has taken to dumping $$ that which they don't have toward that precedence now demonstrated by the US Administration (dump money to make money?). Likely, Arnold will NOT "be back" as he is famous for as an actor.

Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Engineering Fields - Transportation Engineering - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Technical Fields - Procurement - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member Engineering Fields - Architectural Engineering - New Member Technical Fields - Marketing/Advertising - New Member Engineering Fields - Food Process Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mariposa Ca
Posts: 5800
Good Answers: 114
#20
In reply to #18

Re: It Came from Outer Space

12/10/2009 8:44 PM

We as a state aren't investing in this scheme

Solaren hasn't actually commited to even launching satellites until successful ground based testing of the technology.

Getting contracts would just be a requirement to moving forward with the research & what ever funding they are trying to line up.

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: FL USA
Posts: 372
Good Answers: 9
#21

Re: It Came from Outer Space

12/11/2009 6:09 PM

Sounds like another green "stimulus" boondoggle and an accident looking for a place to happen!

__________________
What is right is not always popular. - What is popular is not always right.
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 21 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Age > IQ (1); Anonymous Poster (1); Bill ML (3); cwarner7_11 (1); Electronic Wiz (1); Garthh (4); Hendrik (2); lyn (1); mike k (1); RCE (1); RHABE (2); the wrench (1); Transcendian (1); U NO WHO (1)

Previous in Forum: Any applications for this?   Next in Forum: One possible way to start a nuclear fusion reaction

Advertisement