New Engine Design

Yeah, after while it starts looking like bong water.

Yes the water does filter out a lot and stops it going to atmosphere. However dont know how long engine needs to run before water turns to sludge or if in fact it will.

Hi Stu,

"at the water/gas interface the water will absorb the gas over time"

Correct however the water will absorb only a limited amount (see CO2 absorption scale) and that limited absorption shall only occur at temperature below 20* C such as in the Carbonisation of soft drinks.

Cheers

Peter

Hello tcmtech,

You have done a lot of research, however keep in mind aerodynamicaly the Bumblebee cant fly. So not everything you read as fact is not reality.

Cheers

Peter

The aerodynamics of a bumble bee was figured out back when I was in high school about 18 years ago.

We learned the theory about how it works in junior science class as a new sciences topic. No mystery here.

Goes to show science does eventualy catch up with reality. When I was in high school NASA stated aerodymanicaly bumble bees cant fly. Thanks for the updade.

Cheers

Peter

Yes and how many billions of dollars of stuff has NASA destroyed in its life because they cant do basic math?

Point is they are not exactly the top dogs of engineering that they get credit for.

Its like saying California is the best leaders of... well Okay California has pretty much proven they too cant do basic math in regards to anything and everything and what ever they say is a good idea tends to explode in their face a short time later with disastrous results that someone else ends up cleaning up and paying for as well.

Hello cmtech,

Research hydro turbine. Then research Co2 pressure to temperature.

120*C is 10,000 barg. 31.1*C is 74 barg. Working pressure therefore 9,926 barg.

Gas pressure upon water has no loss of pressure ie water becomes same pressure as Co2.

9,926 barg divided by 9 =1,102 multiply by 720 watts 793,440 watts. For each litre per second water flow.

Its now a fight between California University and you who is right.

Cheers

Peter

Yes thats 10,000 PSI at the turine inlet but whats the turbines outlet pressure? And then how do you get the working fluids at the turbine outlet back up to the 10,000 PSI to recycle it around to the turbine inlet again?

Thats been most of our question since the beginning of the thread. What is the outlet pressure and how do you recycle it around to the input with the pressure built up again?

As far as the current physics state, the only way you get your 793440 watts of energy from a one liter per second flow is by having the full 10,000 PSI of inlet pressure drop to zero at the outlet of the turbine. That is the physics we understand. Its the physics and energy values of how you get that pressure built back up again on that one liter second flow rate we are not following. With no pressure drop across the turbine you have ZERO usable energy and with out the working fluid being repressurized from zero back to 10,000 PSI at that one liter a second flow rate without a rational energy level being put into it the whole process does not work.

Generating very high pressures with at a zero flow rate with a small amount of energy is easy. Generating very high pressures with any flow rate is much harder and takes a lot of energy that has to come from some place.

I am not asking the California university to explain your device and I have no issue with their scientific abilities and I dont think anyone else here does as well. What I and everyone else is asking is for you to explain your device. YOU supposedly invented it and discovered its working principles so therefore you should be the most qualified to explain it as well. If you dont know how your device works in theory and can not explain it any rational terms that engineers and scientists can understand and relate to than we have no more questions for you.

Basically we have no referance to what a "WHOOMPH" value is in our referance books. We dont know its nearest scientific value. Is it a velocity value, a energy value, a physical mass value, or something entirely different?

See comment 32, 74 barg pressure and 31*C at oulet.

Inlet pressure is 10,000 barg.

10,000 barg pressure minus 74 barg back pressure is 9,926 barg work presure.

Should you wish to contradict California University on its data about flow rate and pressure to wattage output of a 80% efficient hydro turbine please do so. I await their updated data!

As in Steam turbines one cools the gas back to liquid then heats it up to gas again. The difference being Steam turbines have seperated boiler which is fed by a return pump. DaS Valve does not need a return pump and in fact itself is also the boiler. Cylinder A.

Pete,

OK! Give me the parts list and we'll build one. You'll have to walk me through it, step by step. We won't make the mistakes you've made. No explosions.

Probably better if we do this via my email and by phone, as I find this takes too long. I'll need you to contribute specialised parts, as only you will know about them.

One thing...... you'll have to decide how we're going to attach a load to this thing so we can get some useful work out of it, before we start building.

Over

Stu

stueywright@msn.com

Will do!

Be in email tonight.

"You also claim that there are no moving part under stress"

Like to know where I made that claim, old salt.

I have forgotten whether a patent application these days needs to be accompanied with a working model....

That may cast into doubt the initial suggestion in post #1.

Four stars for hilarity, though.

"I have forgotten whether a patent application these days needs to be accompanied with a working model...." Only for perpetual motion devices. Not sure if they've established a separate category for so-called over-unity devices.

Nope. No model, working or otherwise, is required. But, what about this:

Ron and lynlynch, I agree that no model is required although if the Patent office thinks it fits in the category of perpetual motion they can require some kind of proof.

The Manual of Patent Examining Procedure at MPEP 608.03 says:

"Models or exhibits not generally admitted as part of the application or patent"

"With the exception of cases involving perpetual motion, a model is not ordinarily required by the office to demonstrate the operability of a device. If operability of a device is questioned, the applicant must establish it to the satisfaction of the examiner,but he or she may choose his or her own way of so doing"

(First, thank you for the R-number classification information - I hadn't gotten around to looking it up yet. Now all I need to do is figure out what inorganic refrigerant has a molecular weight of 74.)

Perhaps we've been asking the questions of the wrong person: "Not bad for a back yard father and son team." (from post #2). Maybe we should have started by asking for the other member of the team!

Hmm. I never back read him until todays looking back it seems sort of likely now that you pointed it out and does explain the sudden disappearance!

So I wrecked another thread by wanting basic numbers and reasonable scientific explanations?

OOPS!

Don't worry tcm-. Nothing lost. I saw that a long time ago. His 720 Watt does not apply. His assumption of 80 % efficiency of the turbine is a farce. It depends on the pressure differential. When I asked how he got that number he said that the Universities might be able to help me. How ignorant can one get?

The blandness of our last guest likely delivered the knock-out punch. We shall see.

Hi Tcmtech:

One of his previous threads was revealing. (He puts forth no valid science or engineering -- it s all pseudo science... and then claims he is in the situation of the Wright brothers of Einstein.) In posts 50, 60 , and 62 I asked what the input power was, and what the output power was. He skirted the issue completely every time, and was initially claiming the the input was "the room" or some such.

Yes, if you ask for any sort of reasonable common sense or scientific explanation, he eventually justs goes away, thankfully.

All,

I've just spoken with him on the phone, and arranged to go and see/ talk about the engine some time later this week. My quest is to establish just how he thinks this thing works and then how it actually works, so that I may pass the salient info on to you guys ( and satisfy my own curiosity).

I have learned that there is a heat source, so we are talking heat engine. He sits the thing on an open fire.

There is a product. He's coupled a generator to it and lights some globes. I'll attempt to advise of the mechanics and quantum as info available.

There is a recurring fault. The heat is applied to an Al tube ( don't ask me) which makes the device run for a short time and then the tube bursts. Clearly there is a cooling/metallurgy problem, for a start.

It'll be a few days 'till I can get there, so don't hold you breath.

I'll report as soon as I can.

Cheers,

Stu

"I have learned that there is a heat source, so we are talking heat engine. He sits the thing on an open fire."

Well, that answers a LOT of the questions.

the heat will transfer to the water making steam and all the water will just vaporize out. By the time you add a cooling system, it will not be anymore eff than a steam turbine.

The University of Notre Dame in Indiana has invented a possible working fluid using custom ionic liquid that can maintain and control Co2 at low very low PSI that could enable the construction of a inexpensive DaS Energy System. Prof. William Schneider working with customized Ionic liquids that allows for low pressure low energy vapor-compression systems that can have a theoretical COP of 4.5 due to a new type of highly efficient compression technology. Currently a company called Ionic Research Technologies has the exclusive license for the various applications of this new energy saving, eco friendly refrigerant without the problems and expense with the use of high pressure Co2. This breakthrough also has other unique applications outside of making the DaS Energy system a safe and low cost device for power generation.

BS.

And I don't mean a degree.

What do you think about the discovery of low energy vapor-compression systems using ionic liquid and carbon dioxide that was invented by the University of Notre Dame, Indiana by professor William Schneider? The estimated cop of 4.5 using a wet compression technology is now under the license of Ionic Research Technologies. Doug Morrison is the CEO and he is currently working with the largest companies in the world that want to use this new discovery of custum ionic liquids and co2 to improve their various refrigeration systems. I hope you could have a chance to at least take a look at this major discovery. With respect to DaS New Engine Design I can understand why you label it BS. I think there are other applications that can utilize some of Peter McKinlay ideas. The inventor told me he has used air pressure at 150 PSI to make his device work. He has used steam pressure and it worked. Co2 has also been tried but he does not have the funds for the high pressure materials needed to complete a working prototype. This is where I thought the new invention if Ionic liquids and Co2 under low pressure phase change would bring the cost down on the materials needed.

I am also an inventor.

Right now I'm trying to think of something that I can invent that will make you disappear.

You, Kulas and Peeewee should start your own forum.

Your shadow is a confirmation that light has traveled nearly 93 million miles unobstructed, only to be deprived of reaching the ground in the final few feet thanks to you.

Thank you for your comments.

Low pressure (below 70 bar) CO2 has been in use for some years, See Coles Supermarket refrigeration.

DaS first become involved in 2002 when acquiring NASA Patent R744-CO2

DaS now uses pure CO2 in all its turbine operations.

The low heat need and self cooling of CO2 turbines are now with China, North Korea, Russia and Indonesia, but remain banned in Austral as "coal is good for humanity" Australian PM.