Snow and More Snow

Hey Brave Sir Robin!

I have to agree with you that there's no substitute for experience when it comes to properly plowing roads and streets. The Rust Belt rules when it comes to snow clearing and removal......hell, I could relocate to the mid-Atlantic states and set-up a clinic for Highway Depts. on how to really do it the right way and make a freaking fortune!!! HMmmmmm, maybe I'll pass this onto my wife as we've been thinking of moving south soon anyhow!!! hehehehehehehe *********

If you think 35-40 MPH is fast for a snow plow, just follow a New York State Thruway Authority plow sometime.....they're armed with those HUGE "PATROL PLOWS" and do no less than 55-60 MPH. Ya should see the snow flyover the shoulders and guardrails!!!! Man, hate to be in grassy area off to the right of the pavement when when of them babies flies by full tilt boogie....you wouldn't live the impact!!!! To be honest, they do slow down when they're on a bridge, even if the orange plastic snow fences have been installed on the guiderails...for fear pushing of a huge amount of snow over or through the guiderails and smashing into a vehicle below, thereby killing the occupants!!!! It's happened in the pass, that's why.

I LOVE MY 33-INCH 18 hp 2-STAGE ELECTRIC START SNOWTHROWER!!!! ***grinz***

Hey Capt Moosie,

Good to hear from you. I agree totally. I've even thought that if the weather down here is not too snowy, they should send the operators up to NY, VT, NH, MA, and ME and do a little apprenticeship with some of those guys. They do it right.

I used to ski a lot in VT, NH and ME back in the day and I know what you mean. I did get a snootfull of snow going under an overpass on one particularly nasty day. Visibility was so bad I didn't see the plow going over the overpass otherwise I would have altered my speed to avoid the deluge. Fortunately, no damage and I kept it straight but I was about to load my pants.

What I would have given to have my old SnowBird Model 261 this last week. I see these "toys" people buy at Home Depot, Lowes, and Sears. Pitiful. Even the "good" ones are laughable. They barely can throw powder 20 feet let alone the crud. I know the old SnowBird was a 14 cu. in., 6 HP model and threw the snow very nicely. I've been doing it the old-fashioned way since I can't justify a snow blower down here (yet). My parents still use that old machine (circa 1962) at their house in Hancock, NH.

Do you have a pic of your machine? I'd like to see that monster.

Hello Ozzb,

The answer is simple! All snow we have during the last centuries and before the 1990s, we now send you as a gift from heaven. I live in Toronto, and during the last two weeks, we received around one and half inch of snow. In the sixties and seventies we get 40 to 70 inches of snow every year and double in Montreal. You know, we are just North of you in Canada the "Hockey People", and I already worked in Baltimore, so I know and understand your problem.

Now, how you get that? You voted like us for people who are pure politicians and liars in both the governments. They don't care about you and me, excessive atmospheric pollution, about global warming, melting of the Poles, and other calamities against humanity. They only care about immediate profits. Other countries get floods, which killed people or didn't rain for years and people died through lack of food and water. Sorry, clean and drinkable water!

What to do with the excessive snow? In the 1970s, in Montreal I lived with my family in a duplex, 2 levels housing. I wasa on the top and we received newcomers from Haiti. They came in February like today. Snowed during two days with accumulation of about 20 inches. Early the morning I cleaned with my showel from the second floor to the garage to reach my car and go work. During the day the snow continues to come down to capitalize another 8 to 10 inches. At 6:00 pm, at home I discover that the door of the newcomers was blocked with 2 feet of snow, I cleaned. Did the same the next morning. A week later, I have the pleasure to talk to the newcomer and he asked: How much the cost of the showel? Later, I asked: You don't cleaned the front of your door during the last week of snowstorm. How come? We, said to me, we wait that God will take away as do with every bad things.

Shortly, I understood at that moment that he will wait the disappearence of the snow by evaporation when the temperature retun to the positive side of the Celsius scale. This is one solution but not very practical. Within two weeks I discovered that the newcomer bought a showel because he needed to go out and buy some food for himself and his family. The snow made him a good showelling Canadian who appreciate snow, love snow. Today we don't have too much of it.

Also, today, we talk to the same God to send snow to the Vancouver region for the Winter Olympics. They really love snow.

Concerning the businesses, they are not open because they already made enough profits that staying at home is fine. You should never return to these closed stores during good weather. Let them taste your unconvenience from snowy times.

Wish you good clean-up and showelling time and watch your back because you don't have any training for that, Gil.

Okay what about the rest of the gift? The snow removal equipment that you say you don't need because of lack of snow fall because you sent all down here.

Quit whining about the snow. I still have to mow my grass every week here in Az.

And on top of that, it's too cold to use the pool, but I still have to clean it.

Your grass two feet high when you mow it.

http://www.poolcovers.com

Now listen who whining.

Use a cow.

Grass powered lawnmowers are great.

Fresh milk is good too.

Tried that. Couldn't keep her out of the pool. Cows are indiscriminate about their toilet habits and the filter kept getting clogged. Plus, she broke the diving board, too.

When I live in West Texas they used goats. Made a nice fall barbecue.

Didn't you realize we Canadians developed technology to export snow to the US.

We kept just enough for the Olympics.

Keep it over there Lord, Keep it over there.... Hmmm. Hmmm. Hmmm. Hmmm,Hmmm,....

Ok, I said my piece, I'll stop hijacking this thread now (sorry). As for the original topic of this thread, I think in New York they dump the snow in the river, but I could be wrong.

Roger

Sorry to interrupt, ozzb, but you're all getting a bit personal. Can you all leave it out so I can read this thread ? I've had it bookmarked for a while, but the current digression has diverted me from reading the bloody topic. In anticipation, thanks guys. Gimme a break to catch up

Fer Gawd's sake! Could everbody jist chill a little? Nobody on here is powerful enough to change the climate more than a teensy-weensy, tiny little bit. If everyone falls out arguing over something we can't really influence, then we're not gonna be able to discuss distributed AI in two weeks or argue about the correct micron size of a snow plow hydraulic filter.

How could there be any discussion on micron size? EVERYBODY knows 10 is the absolute perfect micron rating.

Are those Imperial or Metric microns?

They of course are Imperial.

Metric versions are referred to as Metricons.

As long as we are on the subject of Imperial and Metrics, Is there an conversion factor to convert c**thairs into some metric equivalent?

I don't believe that particular diameter needs conversion. I believe it to be universal.

Nar; catt hairs change with the breed and sex - ask Dell - he researches this after class.

_{cough splutter} Gentlemen, could you please resume the riveting discussion involving Rotarians and microns?

Sorry. We're all a bit punchy, I'm afraid.

Humph - I've been moderated

I spoke with a senior janitor at NIST, who talked with me only on condition that I not give his name.

They have been looking at this, and the problem is the metric prefixes. Milli-, micro-, and kilo- are no problem, but they can't figure out what to do with red-

Hello SAVANT,

I was in France for years, they are smart. I am in North-America for more years and people are smart too.

With your name I don't know what you are. Joke after joke is fine but when you get adult yo have to know when to stop, Isn't it? Your name tells us that you know what I am asking. My French is excellent but you are not responding to it.

Our life is depending of $1 is 100 cents and we have this kind of mixture between prefix indicating size or "grandeur" and named "milli-" and a colour called "red". Why Mr SAVANT?

Could you explain why Washington received so much snow? Al Gore sent to there or was David Suzuki? If you have someone else, please, let us know fast because in this city they want help to clean-up the excess of frozen water in the streets and walkways to get back to work. Wait for answers, many others and Gil.

A red-herring, Gil - savvy?

Alas, I am but a callow youth imprisoned in an aging vessel.

What are you so bent out of shape about? I'm the one that was defamed with the title of Rotarian.

I don't know if that's as bad as calling your own self an old coot, as TVP45 did.

He did not say he was an old coot. He implied that he was being held against his will in Lynchburg Va.

Alas, I am but a callow youth imprisoned in an aging vessel.

Now for the rest of the story.

Australian Antarctic Division glaciology program head Ian Allison said sea ice losses in west Antarctica over the past 30 years had been more than offset by increases in the Ross Sea region, just one sector of east Antarctica.

It has been noted the sea ice has retreated in western Antarctica, however the opposite is occurring in eastern Antarctica and eastern Antarctica is vastly larger than western Antarctica.

current http://www.intellicast.com/National/Radar/Current.aspx?region=default

I'm drowning over here; can't ya post a rosier picture? _{(at least I have power)}

The storm was all hype it had nothing to it unless you where in North East PA (Monroe, Pike, and parts of north Northampton Counties) and NJ. I live in what's called the Lehigh Valley their predicts where of 12-18 inches as of last night all I had was wet roads and work near Philly. This morning another little sqwall blew through. The weather guys didn't take into fact the four-five days of 40 F warming the roads which didn't allow the snow to stick. They really need to go to a paving school so they can pick-up on some basics with roadways.

Greetings from an inundated Monroe County.

I went to School at East Stroudsburg for my two Bachelors in the early 90's. I remember getting caught in the blizzard of '93 and having to stay at a friends place for three days. How I loved traveling on SR 33 north of SR 512.

Hi John,

I was in Toronto and stay in the factory for more than two days eating pizzas because we get the snowstorm in "93 like you got. However, I remember that after that storm we never get a real one, at least in here. I and all survived and this year, we accept your snow but not in Toronto but around Quebec City. Before we get snow from North-West but actually you, from the South-East, you send us what you don't like. Why? Our governments, provincial and federal need to sit down and talk about, and when some decision comes out of those meetings, the summer will be here, and we have to wait fot your next snow loads, I wish the next year. Snowballs could be made by human being, so practice during the weekend. In between practices, don't forget to use your showel. Other suggestion to pass the snowy times; Do you remember the population increase in New York during the black-out of the late 60s?

Again, relax and it's your choice to enjoy the "winter", Gil.

Hi Gil

The Blizzard of '93 was bad for us because it was closed to 40" of snow in a 24hr period with drifts over 15 ft. So they closed down all the major highways in the area. Thus leaving us college students high and dry with no way to get home. My drive at the time was 40 miles so I wasn't going any where.

Sorry Gil but again most of the rest of your e-mail is none sense.

If I went to college in the early 90's would I have been around in the 60's, let alone old enough to make an impact on the population of NYC or remember it?

We're having a normal winter for NE PA so it's really is no big deal. Like I said most of these storms we get are all hype.

Thanks for the concern.

John

Hi John,

Thanks for your vigilance and quick opinion. Sorry, I don't realize your age about the 60s.

In previous comments, we have questions what to do with the excessive snow? They have questions because their and also our governments don't have a clear idea what to do the most often time, isn't it? This was just a suggestion, so don't be critical about my remark that it's a NONE SENSE". The snowfalls are problems for many! Tell me what was prepared just by your municipality before the winter was present, in your area? Make a honest answer. Thanks, Gil.

I would never be critical about your remarks their just confusing and made no sense. "Sending human snow balls"?

Anyway to answer your question on how prepared my local government was.

First a brief description on how snow removal works in PA:

PA is broken up into counties and these are broken up into township. Snow events are handled by three governmental entities. Smallest is cities, then townships, and then states. The state controls the bulk of the state roads, cities usually take can of the inner city streets and townships take care of Tertiary streets throughout there territory. For the most part the state has been pretty much ready for any winter event they have multiple sheds with stockpiles of salt and anti-skid aggregate. Their large budget can handle the up-coming needs. Townships and cities first rely on the own budgets which will handle our average storms 3+ storms of 8+ inches a year. If they go over their budget mainly because of overtime for operators and for buying supplies (i.e. salt, etc.) then liquid fuel money from the state is given. Plus if the governor issues a state of emergency federal dollars come into play but this only happens once in a great while. He did it this year for the SE region around Philly before that was the blizzard of 1996. When all is said an done each community will have to look at there budget and more then likely cut spring/summer maintenance projects for this year. Plus the economic down turn isn't helping the communities either.

My township which is about 3 square moves with close to 100 lane miles of roads to cover besides individual developments, has two stockpiles 12 plow trucks and several other pieces of equipment. Population around 125,000. They where out multiple times during all of the snow events to keep all of our roads clean I saw no problems. From what I've seen and heard at there stock yard they never ran out of salt or anti-skid. Over-time will hit our budget but that's normal for this time of the year. We will not raise taxes this year just like the last six. We'll simply cut back on some projects.

So how does the inter-workings of Toronto work and local provinces?

Hi John,

I never wrote down "Sending human snow balls". I said: human can make snowballs, which is extremly different. Anyway, this was a humour but not catched that way.

In Toronto, we don't care about the snow. The city and the provincial government wait until the streets are filled with snow and they call companies to make the clean-up. Honestly, if I am the government, I will act the same way. From 1983, the last major snowfall, we have just a little to showel or let turn into slush, and let run into the drains. We are extremely lucky!

Your town is well organized and my question is: Why people has been in difficulties in Washington? Aha, it's the organization? Talk to the city people. No you John, the people in Washington and the area.

It's probably the climate change makes all these changes, excessive snowfalls, excessive raining times, typhoons, droughts, and other calamities we rarely saw before.

Again, I heard that Washington area received some 15" snow and we get some 2" here in our town. We are lucky like in the Olympics. All the best John from Gil!

Hi Gil

Here is an up date from the City of Toronto and their snow removal techniques in cause you weren't aware. It seems they start snow plowing at 5 cm or about 2 inches in the city. 2 cm for major roads or .5 inch. That seems like a pretty stepped up system and that they care a lot about cleaning snow.

http://www.toronto.ca/transportation/snow/

With a city as large as Toronto, 5th largest in North America, I find it hard to believe that they wouldn't run into the same problems as any other city that would get 32"+ at one shot(i.e. DC, Baltimore, Philadelphia, etc.). The question becomes where do you put it. I'm sure you have street side parking making it hard to plow the roads. Unless of course you don't live in the city and you're a suburbanite. Then plowing techniques change maybe they don't care out there.

Your friend in snow John

Hi John,

Thanks for the information about Torontonian snow cleaning system. What the regulations are saying is "one" and the realities are "another". During the last days we have only highway cleaning, and walkways are cleaned once, and bus stops are cleaned to. This is not a critic to our city's organization. The cleaning is good and don't need more. The warm weekend temperatures took care about the elimination of all snow.

I live around 550 metres from Eaton Centre (Dundas Square), which is the centre of Toronto. John, honestly, I saw twice or three times snowplaws in the streets this year without snow collection to dispose somewhere else. There is no contract for decades with snow cleaning companies. Also, you can park your car anytime!

I wish you the same winter that we have here. It's Florida without oranges, Gil.

NB: I have a personnel thing: I put a pair of gloves when the temperature gets -20*C. Also, I travel 1 and half our every morning and evening in public transportation, and I never took the gloves this year.

The weather gurus are claiming al can expect eleven years of harsh winters so all can be prepared

Operation snow removal:

Strategic Plan

measures to improve snow removal operations

http://ville.montreal.qc.ca/portal/page?_pageid=5637,30739593&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL

Hi Bwire,

Everyone is an expert or guru of predicting the future. Someone told that I was a moron. Five minutes later, one of my clients told me that my solution to his problem was fantastic, I hiddenly became a smart person. Who is right? Who is wrong? No one knows but we continue to predict certain events without certainty! This is the same thing as planning. Everyone plans and do the most of the time totally differently! The momentarily occasions and opportunities change everything. We folow what is perceived best!

Started with the Greeks, followed by Nostradamus, and the "2012" promoters, which date is approaching, and I include myself as a claimer of better times. What's the result of all these predictions? Absolutely nothing. However, today, we have ever growing pollution of the atmospher, water, and ourselves with unnecessary pills and special, healthy providing liquids, and I forget...

I lived more than 18 years in Montreal and its suburb and they have definitely more snow than we have in Toronto. Accordingly, they need to be better organized but not in my actual home-place, in Toronto. Also, what is on paper or screen is "one" and what is done concerning snow cleaning is "another story". Miller, our major in Toronto is a nice guy and talking well, all the time "said" that he will do "this and that" but at the end, we have "less and less" as "promised" and in few months, when he will quit, we have no chance to ask him: What was wrong and why during his reign?

The "Ville de Montreal" page is interesting but if you ask to a Montrealer: Are you happy with the snow removal in your town? They will tell you the truth, believe me!!! Definitely, will be not an "oui"!

In Washington, should get the same system as Montreal has with small changes to make better for the DC people. Wish the best, Gil.

know from those that live farther north...

Perhaps "from those that live farther up" (as in up the mountain, as in out west) your proposal might be more apropos. Indeed, in such places as ski areas in the rockies, compacted snow pavements works quite well...primarily because either the top layer is daily replenished and/or snow melt (and refreeze as ice) is insignificant as a factor...and because there are no salt domes and equipment and crews which, be force of habit and training must be pressed into service. Unlike Balmer area and its snow emergencies, including your own inner suburb, it is not critical to move mass numbers to work and such...and do so with minimal delay. So although snow pavements make sense in some places (like in sparsely populated continental areas removed from warming influences of the Atlantic and Chesapeake) it is difficult to see how tending of snow pack pavement would be a feasible atermative...even in places north of Maryland.