Methods for Installing Doors, Windows in Shipping Container Housing

Okay and as your cutting try to keep the door seals cool

The acrid odor of burned rubber will any remove pleasantry of remaining within.

Trans,

problem withuisng Oxy/Acet torches is you need good supply of gas...not sure how the infrastructure is for this...will be using a lot of both.

Plasma cutters only use compressed air and an Arc from110 to 240 volt single phase or 220 to 440 3 phase....maybe easier...yes investment is a bit expensive but will also cut far more and quicker.

One company also has a dual purpose cutter/welder and is $1850 more but can only be used on 3 phase voltages.

Also plasma generates less overall heat when used correctly.

Geoff Daly NH

I am swayed. I have been reading up on the plasma cutters. They have come a long way since I was last cutting. Guess everything has it's pros and cons.

Acetlyne and Propane and oxygen torches don't need electrical power, but gases cost.

Plasma needs electrical power.

For location work without power, likely Oxy/Acet needed, and at Headquarters Plasma good.

I couldn't agree more with the idea of using torches.

Cut window opening with a torch.

If a window were available having an inner flange rather than an outer fin to enable an exterior mount of the window to be fastened to the container wall from inside essentially clamping the container wall between the window frame and the inner flange no fasteners would be needed to pierce the steel. Or should the afore mentioned concept be applied as a fixture to enable use of a standard window insert instead?

Hello there, bwire.

I only watched the original thread sparsely... became too active for me to pay much attention to. If this has already been discussed there, please let me know.

I would think shipping container housing is a temporary arrangement, not intended for permanent living... not even intended for much longer than a few months, but that is unrealistic, given the Haitiian circumstances, and compounded with human nature.

Should there be an inordinate amount of time given to each individual unit, to make it as comfortable (maybe 'homey') as we can, or should modifications be sort of down and dirty (maybe cutting torch accurate), to provide the larger number of liveable units?

I have an acquaintance who started with a railroad car, and converted it to a living space (I cannot bring myself to call it a house). To this unit, over the years, he added a caboose and two shipping containers. With this experience, I know that comfortable housing can be made from discarded boxes. This acquaintance is not only a little odd, he is an accomplished metal fabricator and carpenter, and chooses to live in these boxes. Ambition and resources are items in this man's tool box... I doubt the survivors of the earthquake have much of either right now, their resource is relief from caring people around the world... and history shows us this shall pass.

Yeper...we shouldn't go over board though we should recognize just cutting an arbitrary hole for ventilation and light when so very little extra need be done to make these actions more purposeful, no space without a window should be produced for people to remain within.

The relief and rebuilding of habitation for the displaced in Haiti will be a long process requiring patience and tolerance of all. It's not improbable these containers will be in use for years though maybe not having the same occupants for that time frame and these folks don't have the means to special order windows to fit an arbitrary size that's different from one container to another.

Seems like a fair number of buildings made with shipping containers have been intended as permanent. Even when you punch in shipping containers on CR4 there is a thread about a Travel Lodge hotel made from them.

Maybe they won't be as permanent as a Cathedral, or a castle, but they likely will last at least as long as a Mobile Home, if not longer.

For some it will be dependent on paint and drainage, and other factors.

Comparable structures like train cars are often enough used as either living spaces or local even to where I live there is a restaurant made from train cars.

I've stayed in a motel hotel in Wilkes Barre PA, made from train cars.

Train cars, and buses and those sorts of things do typically come with windows, at least the ones I'm talking about. (ain't seen any places made from the freight cars.)

At any rate as far as windows and doors we typically buy them now and put them into the framing, but I doubt this is a realistic option where 75 percent of the population is living in abject poverty.

Hinged or sliding Plexiglass may be the best to hope for.

Maybe some will end up with salvaged from the rubble windows or doors.

Far as fasteners for guide slides, or hinges nuts and bolts may be what happens, when we might use self tapping screws and the like.

As far as which way to have the doors open, well, if they open inward you can get a screen door on that opens out, but you might still have a shortage of those, and end up doing what the Romans did, and hang a scrim curtain in the door to keep the bugs out.

Spring clamps would be nice, but I suppose some clothes pins would do.

Hey there, Transcendian:

"Even when you punch in shipping containers on CR4 there is a thread about a Travel Lodge hotel made from them."

I punched it up and, well, some of the tag lines are a little misleading. It appears the shipping containers used were specially constructed to ship motel rooms, and not recycled or used containers:

http://www.verbussystems.com/

However, it is an innovative, fast-track type of construction... I just don't believe it is true use of a post-consumer item, nor as green as they would like us all to believe.

This does sort of make me wonder where they are, with this urgent need for shelter. Why are they not involved in this particular discussion? They must have LOTS of insight regarding these issues.

Doorman,

Good Idea.

the plant they use in China also makes for Maersk and OCl standard ISBU's for regular shipping .......you will notice Verbus uses a 3.66 meter wide container so needs permits to travel over the roads even in the EU. So is wider by 1.2+ meters.

So they get benefit of existing facilities anyway.....does not make jobs in the EU or US.

All are made within the same conveyor driven production line but has been set-up to accomodate the extra width.....still use the same coruigated Corten steel and all end supports and sections...so have economy of scale and purchasing like OCl and Maersk.

Good idea but we could achieve more space by turning TWO open top containers on the sides and Joining...use similar clip design and some welded plates for added strength. then cut out the windows doors etc...majority of thes have steel floors anyway (have used to move large equipment on skids) .

Geoff Daly NH

With 1.2 million homeless in need of storm shelters, I suspect speed of deployment is the critical metric at this point. Rough and ready fixes to meet very basic needs.

You are right- these are very likely to become permanent. But trying to make them "livable" from the outset is going to delay deployment. Fancier modifications can be done down the road- in fact, on the thread, it was discussed that there is a local business opportunity for people to turn shelters in to housing in the future...

Agreed...the point though was if a hole is to be cut why not make a standard size .

A standard size is good.

save & reattach the cut out metal, for hurricane shutters

use 3/4" scrap pipe & rebar for hinges/latch

A size that is theft resistant & placed high for convection effect

As sceptic pointed out screens are very important

a few miles of screen & construction adhesive to stick em down?

I'm sort of for sliding windows on the horizontal, instead of up and down. Partly in consideration of what might be put in the way, like a bed, or whatnot.

As far as standard window sizes, yes they will be good, though if salvaged windows are around, guess you'd cut for them.

If no windows or plexi are available, and you do have some roll screen material, it's duct tape and plastic, or duct tape and fabric for some bug control.

"I'm sort of for sliding windows on the horizontal, instead of up and down. Partly in consideration of what might be put in the way, like a bed, or whatnot."

I agree, if you have a window with a proper frame that can be sandwiched in and sealed.

As I've shown, most containers are corrugated vertically, which makes it somewhat difficult to slide horizontally. maybe that is just my lack of imagination...

If all you have is a cutting torch and some bits of scap metal, what I've shown is the easy way to do it. no glass, no frame. reusing the cutout as shutter.

I'm open to more detailed how-to discussion of your horizontal idea.

Chris

Good one...why did you figure to swing down? Rather than swing up an prop open for shade?

I wasn't thinking of swing, but slide. Swing is good if you have hinges. GA. I did have second thoughts about it. It should be on the outside with a tiny awning or lip to keep the rain out. Even better if hinged. I put it on the inside for security purposes...

Chris

If you want swing, it has to swing out- otherwise, the hurricane winds will blow it in...

Hinges are easy- a piece of rebar and an eye...

Geoff

GA

Conveyor belting would be excellent.

When I suggested old tyres, I was thinking what people could scrounge.

If conveyor belt could be obtained (and I'm sure the salvage yard on the mines has miles of old belt), it would be very useful for seals, hinges etc.

You're right about the corrugated problem that influenced your design.

Slots while workable would be difficult.

Hence Up works better than down.

Still down is where the space is, so in consideration of the materials, your design, while a compromise, is realistic.

I'm posting the links below for all the various threads from

CR4 a International engineering forum sponsored by

Global Spec http://www.globalspec.com/

Be aware that CR4 is an open forum where even guests can post.

The conversation can & does go off topic from time to time, which is all part of the open design process...

Please feel free to join in any & all of the discussions

The original thread Shipping Container Housing is over 900 posts long

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/49244#newcomments

We started four threads for more detailed discussions after it became clear the original thread was getting too long

How to Install & Anchor Shipping Container Housing:

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/50522#newcomments

Methods For Installing Doors & Windows In Shipping Container Housing:

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/50523#newcomments

Drainage, Sanitation & Other Issues Related To Shipping Container Housing:

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/50525#newcomments

Potable Water In Conjunction W/ Shipping Container as Housing:

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/50537#newcomments

The new Blog started by Clemson University:

http://www.seed-haiti.net/?page_id=2

Please feel free to contact me should you need any help with any of CR4's features

mark

Thank you Sue for your diligence. GA for your attentiveness!

However, on the point of the stick, Richard et al, appear to be presenting container concepts that are suspectible to either hurricane or quake, and we know there are designs that can be less susceptible, and I would consider it a more appropriate choice to push for such designs. When the next disaster strikes Haiti, and it will, and they will not be in a good place structurally, at least will have not represented the designs which were most susceptible.

I personally think that underground or at least embedded, low profile, embanked designs are going to withstand the wind much better, and frankly, anything that gets over 1 story into the air is going to require some serious anchoring. it sets off my caution alarms to see airy 4 story designs with dreamy geometrical attachments. These will become high velocity projectiles. (but admittedly, I'm not clear on which designs were being proposed for Haiti)

Chris

Nice info Sue. I wonder of all the different competing shipping container conversion companys, which is the one best to support. Whose stuff is best?

What would you buy?

What company will actually locate a conversion factory in Haiti?

Long term this is a job for Haitians.

The pictured assemblage is a direction I have moved to pushing in the near term now.

Designs that now will work as schools, clinics, and food stores are to be our concentration now.

In Bathbreaking I mentioned my love of Wegmans in Penfield New York. They typically have adjacent a Chase Pitkin Hardware store. Hence within the Community Center designs the incorporation of "toolrooms" is called for.

In the commercial world I probably ought to try and get ahold of Wegmans Executives, and see if they would consider putting in a business in Haiti.

Yes good work....!

Chris,

In short, no.

To get an effective cutter, shear, punch, nibbler, to work the forces apropros need to be addressed. If you intend to apply a force, exerted by a slide hammer, on a cutter of some sort, to be most effective, there needs to be an equal and opposite force exerted on the 'anvil' to that cutter.

To not do so is effectively tearing the material in shear, which is effectively sawing. In this example a 'one-toothed' saw.

Looking at the power requirement to work such a tool for any realistic period of time , this need to be considered: The calculated power requirement for the new tool I'm asking to be made for us is circa 2100W @ 230v. That's just under 3hp.

My involvement with athletes over a long time has indicated that a well toned male athlete can produce about half a horsepower for short'ish bursts.

Undernourished , genetically predisposed to slight stature Haitians operating such a hand operated tool???????

Not saying it can't be done. But I always look at the probabilities, as well as the possibilities,

Cheers, Mate,

Stu

if a man with a hammer and chisel can cut the cor-ten steel, then a slide hammer with a proper arrangement should be able to work effectively (not saying my design is correct, but that the idea should still be functional)

thank you stuey, as always, you are very knowledgeable.

Chris

Chris (this is from my 1193 posting)

Stu,

Called a GreenLee hole punch tool available as standard up to 4" dia as standard after that are special order

http://www.mygreenlee.com/GreenleeDotCom/products/upc/images/7304.jpg

Yes, could start a reasonable sharpening industry and for cold chisels if used.

Then use bywires idea, cut up a car tyre and secure over hole...allows clearance and is covered by a small arc of the tire or if bigger set of hole.....you can if careful make a seried of holes inline by positonimg the cutting faces so the non pull indent face is just ovet the opposing holes edge...gives a nices scalloped feature to the edges...then hang the coveyor belting with the rubber tyre section either end to make stand-offs.

Maybe easier than trying to fashion a cutter as you were proposing even using bywire's idea for harden springs as part of your design. Files and grinders are available more easily I expect. .....still a lot of muscle I expect; but still good idea and lead in on how to do with less tools etc and cost.

Geoff Daly NH

I recall using a 42" long breaker bar driving a torque multiplier exerting 3200+ ft/lbs tension with one hand...

A refresher of the links to all the related discussions

The original thread Shipping Container Housing is over 1500 posts long

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/49244#newcomments

New Thread as a Compilation:

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/52324/Alternate-Methods-of-Emergency-Housing-as-it-Relates-to-the-Crisis-in-Haiti

How to Install & Anchor Shipping Container Housing:

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/50522#newcomments

Methods For Installing Doors & Windows In Shipping Container Housing:

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/50523#newcomments

Drainage, Sanitation & Other Issues Related To Shipping Container Housing:

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/50525#newcomments

Potable Water In Conjunction W/ Shipping Container as Housing:

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/50537#newcomments

What Shelter Designs Work Using Corrugated Iron

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/50850/What-Shelter-Designs-Work-Using-Corrugated-Iron

Scrap ships as housing

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/51898/Ship-Breaking

The new Blog started by Clemson University:

http://www.seed-haiti.net/?page_id=2

Bioneers Forum

http://connect.bioneers.org/forum/topics/alternate-methods-of-emergency

Please feel free to contact me should you need any help with any of CR4's features

Here is some of the contact information for the various political entities:

The Whitehouse:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact

The US Senate:

http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

The US Congress:

http://www.congress.org/

or

https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml

The holder of the purse strings:

http://www.usaid.gov/contact.html

Here are some numbers Transcendian came up with to call with polite communications as people die. See if you can get something good to happen.

Try Beau Mills at 919-859-5999

Try Merorores at 212-370-4840 Haiti Mission to the UN.

Try Unicef at 1-800-486-4233

Try Countryman & McDaniel at 310-342-6500

Try Christian Lopez of Latino Housing Development at 716-881-7051

Try 212-963-1234 and see who you get and what they want you to do. It's the number for the UN.

Try 509-229-800 and ask for Kenneth H/Merten. He's one I aint got to bothering yet. See if he knows Raymond Joseph at 202-332-4070. (check number.) For USAID try 202-712-4007, ask for Mike.

Try 202-271-4416. Bette Cook.

The list is not in order. Mr. Lopez is attempting to get shipping container housing to Haiti, and deserves support. Countryman and McDaniels have information and contacts we need. We do need the UN to act right, but making that happen will be tough. USAID has already told us to go to hell, and all US Government agencys seem to defer to them

I hope you don't mind pictures. I went for a drive to the industrial park today, and got permission to shoot some pictures of this unit under construction. All I know about it is that it will be going to the oilpatch.. I think it might be a small genset bldg. but it has some very interesting features. They've reinforced the ceiling, put an interior wall in, added a ladder and swing crane to the rear, and barn doors to the front. the small room in the back also had the ceiling opened up.. makes me curious.

It's a 20 footer I think. I walked around it clockwise. The first picture is the barn-door they've put in the right side. the crane etc is on the back end.(final pics) Its getting extensive work done. unfortunately I won't be able to get more pics of it I don't think. I had permission from 2 guys, but after I took these but another said no, so I left. Chris

Great pics Chris!

Looking at all the BMT for the electrical wiring reminds me of something that we've all missed throughout the Blog: We're going to need to electrically ground these containers because they'll act as huge lighting rods if I'm not mistaken....I'm not an electrical engineer, so those who are should speak-up and make comments please!

Have a great sunny day!

Capt Mossie,

Somewhere in the tie down posting we talked about using a steel hawser for securing, so we could also add a copper rod wire in one of the hawsers and tie back into a bolted stud near the corner anchor for lightning protection.

If the external surfaces are painted with the Thermal insulation paint then this adds an exterior protection plus we hope the roofing cover also adds to this as well.

Some form of internal wall covering should be considered..thin sheet of SIP paneling?

Great pictures as well for showing a construction sequence going on...seems they were using std indusrial steel framed doors..easy to weld into cut-outs.

Concerning the wiring we should keep to the min as we want to mount solar/wind units with them coming through grommets on the roof to the lights (chris has also recommended motion sensors to activate...keeps drain on batterries at all times to min and maybe a section of wiring to run a radio/tv on 24 or 48 volt DC or a small fridge)

Lets keep up the ideas and especially the safety one you brought up for lightning protection.....PS: is it not EMT?

Geoff,

If we're strapping down the containers as previously discussed I don't now if we can piggyback a copper grounding wire along it. I don't know if the US-issued National Electric Code (NEC) will permit that type of installation....may require a separate installation with a copper grounding wire (#8????) and copper grounding rod. Again I'm not an EE and I'm going by my house grounding setup.

Is there any EE's out in the audience??? Advice please?

re earthing: With steel supports going fairly deep into the ground, earthing should be adequate, unless the ground is rocky. Dry sandstone seems to be the worst.

I once used a 1.5" steel pipe buried 4' into sandstone and wound up with an earth resistance of over 50 ohms! Fortunately the electricity supply used a multiple earthed neutral so all those high resistance earths in the area added together to give an acceptable overall earth.

In this case we are talking about earthing for lightning, in which case each "house" will stand alone (unless there is reticulated electricity, which is unlikely).

With the voltages involved in lightning it should still earth as it would be the lowest resistance pathway available.

Because of ionization of the air around lightning, peculiar things can wind up being the lowest resistance path, so our steel supports are not guaranteed to be it, just the most likely path.

Of course if the supports are set in concrete, the concrete could be damaged by the lightning, but if in compacted earth there shouldn't be a problem.

Years since I did any of this stuff so people, please correct me if I'm wrong. I'll be happy to learn from you.

Yes the one door on the back end was standard steel door, but the barn doors were all custom steel, with purchased hinges, deadbolts, and catch.

It is on a skid..I thought when I said 'oilfield' everyone would know. round here, 'oilfield style' means that it is going on a skid.

As for electrical grounding, I think in installations where we have chimneys and guy wires, that perhaps one of those guy wires can be extended to ground.

As for power systems I think that the less conduit that is run the better, so we should recommend modular systems that don't require wiring, and if they must pass through the wall, that it is done in such a way as minimize and modularize the wiring and eliminate conduit. Conduit installations are great way to double the cost.

Also note that the ventilation installation here (left wall) would keep most rain out, and still be able to withstand most debris blowing around.

Chris