Bandsaw Ripping Depth

Just had a squiz at the bandsaw in the machine shop here - Startrite 18-T-10. The upper guide is continuously adjustable up to about 250mm -ish. Can't see any indication of different cut quality or whatever for different heights.

Just as confused.

195mm wouldn't be the throat, would it? - sounds a bit stingy.

They quote the throat separately...
There is a greater vertical clearance than the cutting height if you ingnore the balde guide.
I want to rip down a Yew log but there seems to be a big leap from the 'hobby' type of bandsaw to the semi pro job. You jump from £150 ish up to £300.
I was bidding on Ebay for a real nice one, but it shot from £165 to £330 in the final 15 minutes of the auction.

I could split the log but don't want to risk it running off the side and wasting wood. It should make 4 bows, it's about 5" diameter.... I just 'found' it in the woods.
Del

"I want to rip down a Yew log but there seems to be a big leap from the 'hobby' type of bandsaw to the semi pro job. You jump from £150 ish up to £300.
I was bidding on Ebay for a real nice one, but it shot from £165 to £330 in the final 15 minutes of the auction."

Unfortunately, that's just the way it is. I recommend used machinery shops. Good used saws -- even old ones -- still command a premium price, but you get what you pay for. They often need just a simple tune-up. Replace the guide bearings/blocks, replace the tires (rubber strips that line the blade drive wheels), and you're good to go.

"Here is a link to one I was looking at...it's prob too flimsy, the reviews are very mixed."

Yeah, I classify those as hobby saws. Maximum cutting depth is usually good only for relatively soft materials. They just don't have the power for heavy cutting. Also, since they typically use rather thin blades, the cut tends to wander.

Scheppach Basato 1 195mm Bandsaw 240V

Nice to see a 240 V (Volt) (if that what its designating, and not a model number. at least in the US, wonder what size motor.

Hi Del,

You mention splitting it length wise, this would have probably been the historical method used. Riving the log , if done correctly would yield bow blanks where the grain follows the rough shape.

A froe and a froe club, [American usage, tools for splitting shakes or clapboards], with a little practice can give you the results you want.

When splitting the log pressure can be applied to either the main part or the portion splitting off, to steer the " cut".

In a pinch, a froe could be fabricated from an automobile leaf spring.

Ratty

Hi, yes I'm all for the traditional way of splitting logs and have always done so in the past.
However this log should yield 4 staves if done right, and I'm not sure I want to run the risk of losing a stave...Decent Yew is had to come by and I feel it would be negligent of me to waste it.
Last Yew log I split ran slightly off and left me with one bit which is ok for a shortish flatbow, but not a longbow.
Even the bost benighn timber can run off one side, even Hazel which splits if Mrs Cat just gives it a hard stare can go wrong.
But I shall keep you guys posted...sometime in 2011 there will be a bow to show you.
Del

What brands/models are you looking into?

Bandsaws come in a large variety of sizes. The "size" quoted for a vertical saw is the maximum thickness of material the saw is capable of cutting. I doubt the manufacturer would advise removal of the guide (but I suppose it's possible).

Less commonly quoted is the throat depth -- the distance between the blade and body. This restricts the maximum width of cut-off. If the throat is 250mm and you need to cut 300mm off of a 2-meter length...

Horizontal bandsaws often specify a rectangular dimension (width and height) as the saw's "size", as they are often used to bundles of material. They also get around the throat depth issue (for most cases) by offsetting the blade. (I've only seen metal cutting horizontal saws.)

Did you ask who you are buying it from?

Here is a link to one I was looking at...it's prob too flimsy, the reviews are very mixed.
Del

Oh, it has a ripping fence on it. Can cut more if removed that reverts to throat. And the thickness of course is the thickness of material which should be adjustable for blade guide.

That figures ...

Oh, I see, "ripping capacity" refers to the throat.
Why they don't just say throat.
It seems to be confusing just for the hell of it....
Oh well back to the axe and wedges, or maybe stick it on the table saw to get 80% though it and split the last 20%.
Cheers

Del

Get on the 'phone to these guys:

Ripping capacity refers to the extreme distance the fence can be placed. Throat depth is greater.

This is from the Impress Tools blurb:

For what it's worth. I did a nice red oak limb last fall. It had exactly the curve I needed for a set of rockers, so off I went.

First thing I learned is that I needed as much tension as the saw could stand. With the guides set up that far, there was significant blade twist (a 2 cm blade or so would have helped, too).

Second, after the job, I figured out I should have put a flat base on the limb before feeding it into the saw so that it would always rest easily on the table.

Post pictures.

Cheers for the info/advice/feedback.
I don't think I'll end up being able to afford a decent saw, maybe I'll saw it by hand...just gotta dig a 6 foot pit first. Actually I'm contemplating making up a sort of saw guid and doing it by hand, a little and often would get through it in a couple of months.

Axe and wedges is quick, but it's not precision...

Del

In carpentry parlance, a rip saw cuts along the grain only, whereas a cross-cut saw can be used either along or across the grain. When a cross-cut is neing used along the grain, it works slower than the rip saw, as the teeth are sharpened differently. Most hand-saws these days are sharpened to cross-cut.

Rip saws are more difficult to find, though many circular saws have their teeth sharpened to rip rather than cross-cut, as they will always be cutting along the grain and never across it.

Any attempt to use a rip saw in cross-cut mode will end in tears.

Does this help?

Does this help?
Ta, I did know that already, but it's the thought that counts.
I just popped round to a mate of mine's little factory unit. He has a massive Startrite bandsaw, but he doesn't use it and it's facing the wall, so I couldn't run a log through it, I reckon it would take 3 men(or about 100 cats) to shift the darned thing .
Del

....therefore this particular saw has a greater capacity for ripping than for cross-cutting. Rip saws work faster and take less effort than the cross-cut, and therefore the input power of the machine can be used to do more work in rip than in cross-cut. Therefore a thicker piece of wood can be ripped than can be cross-cut.

Not sure if this will help, but we used a circular saw to cut up some rail-road sized lumber at work. It took some careful planning, measuring and marking but I cut it from both sides and was left with a thin strip that I cut with a hand saw.

If you ever go to RAF Mildenhall, you can see my handiwork as some hefty benches in front of the POL Fuels building on the side of the base away from Beck Row.

For your application it might mean more loss of material because the saw wastes more and because it is round it will be difficult to set up for the cuts.

Good luck and if it works, I want a bow from it!

Drew

My Yew longbows start at about £220 , but that's built to your own spec'.
Still much cheaper than the 'professional' bowyers, who charge £300-£600 .
PM me if you seriously want a bow (Hazel flatbows come cheaper)

I shall do a lot of armchair work before I take a saw to it (or it to a saw).
Del

Perhaps after I graduate and can afford pounds again I will take you up on it.

But if you do use my idea to cut this log, I want a discount!!!

I wish I can find a picture of the benches I made, they were nice, I cut into one and removed a parallelogram shaped chunk about 2" on both ends, then laid it out on the ground putting two diagonal cut pieces in place so I could line up to cut chunks out of the bottom. The end result was the weight of the top wedged the diagonals into the slots holding it all together. I thought it was very art deco and aesthetically pleasing!

Drew

Sounds cool, I like the wedge/slot things together motif. (Art Deco is cool too)
Love those big old timber framed medieval barns.
Del

I experienced a similar need and solved with purchase of a cheap metal cut-off saw aka horizontal band-saw in effect because a feature allowing the blade to be raised to vertical for maintenance and of course finagling the safety switch allowing operation vertical. Making a table was fun too... So I got a 7" x 12" cut-off saw and with the angled blade so for your application infinite length of cut or throat.

similar but also had coolant tank etc..

Ta, I shall have a look at those, see what I can find.
Del

In the US you can purchase attachments for chain saws that allow you to rip logs into lumber. Not as efficient as a purpose made machine, but adequate for occasional use.

Native americans would never dream of ripping a bow limb. You cut the grain and weaken the limb. Split it, you will find it much sturdier, a touch uglier to be sure but you will be able to slam a clothyard shaft through an oak tree. On the other hand maybe yew is a strange wood and sawing is the way to go but with red oak or hickory don't even think about it.

When you decide to part with your hard earned cash opt for a saw with bearing guides and not the plastic guide blocks. I have a Delta 28-185 http://www.dbkeighley.co.uk/masters/delta28185.htm that is no longer in production in the USA and parts are getting hard to find. It is a small table top unit. I bought it new about 12 years ago. One of the drive tires broke and it is no longer available. I could get the complete wheel for 1/2 the price of a new saw. So I bought a new floor model Delta vert saw to handle the larger work I was getting into. The old saw with the bearing guides would out perform the new one in accuracy by leaps and bounds. I do a lot of contour sawing and the time wasted fighting the new saw drives me nuts. Carter guides for the new saw will in effect double the price of the saw. I wish I had done my research before buying.

On the farm we had a cheap horizontal metal saw like the one in post 33. It came with a table to allow it to be used as a vertical contour saw.

Del, I own a Delta bandsaw (+- 25 years old) that has a 6 inch throat extension. In the standard factory model the top portion of the cast iron frame is bolted to the lower portion. Delta makes the extension out of cast iron so that it bolts in between the top and bottom sections. I think I buy a 102 inch blade instead of a 94 inch blade. I'm sorry I do not know the model number because it's at home and I'm at work. I can rip a plank up to 12 inches thick but to do that I install a 3/4 inch wide blade. I must say though that a round log is very hard to rip accurately. You really need at least one flat side to run along the fence or the base plate.

Cheers, that's an interesting concept.
If I can only get a small one, I could maybe modify it.
I may plane a small flat on one face of the log, but for a Yew longbow the sapwood is importand so I don't want to take much of. I certaily expect to have to jig it up to keep it on line, also stick a thin lath in the cut so I can keep this vertical and in line with the blade.
Del

The Delta throat extension is the cat's meow, pardon the sentiment. It sounds like once you have the clearance you will need to make a sacrificial carraige that can hold your log to get the initial straight cut and using the table slot as a guide. Then turn the piece 90 degrees on your carraige and take another slice. Now you have 2 straight edges 90 degrees apart and smooth sawing. Best get Missus Del to tail for you. That is, catch the workpiece as you feed it through.

Cheers for all the advice guys, I'm bidding on a couple of medium range bandsaws on E-bay (much better than that cheapo one I linked to)... The good thing is I'm not in a hurry.
I'll keep you posted on progress.
Del

Based on the numbers you quoted, my guess is: the 100mm is the maximum thickness of wood that can be cut and the 195mm is the distance between the blade and saw frame. In the U.S. bandsaws are specified as the distance between blade and frame. Standard cutting depth is around 5", but some newer models are capable of handling a 12" cut depth. 14" is the typical home shop bandsaw(14" blade to frame). Riser blocks can extend the depth of cut to 12". If you search the internet, you can find many dealers of small machine tools and catalogs that will explain all the features and specs. Note that a special blade is required for ripping wood. It will have 4 or less teeth to the inch as opposed to a crosscut blade that has 10 or more teeth/inch.

Del, I always try to get the saw in post 33 with the included table for vertical work. I have found it to be a good buy. It usually is three speed, made for metal, but will cut wood slowly. It's not comfortable to use in the vertical position, but the versatility is unbeatable.

On the contrary it's very comfortable cutting wood with adjustable speed and a locking mechanism when vertical. The one I have came from Grizzly I think and has a 1" blade capability, similar to:

http://www.grizzly.com/products/6-1-2-x-9-1-2-Metal-Cutting-Bandsaw/G4030

The 195mm ripping depth is from the saw blade back to the face of the bandsaw; i.e. the deepest rip that can be made in the material.

The dimension you've described is termed throat in band-saw nomenclature.

Standards and terminology what are they therefore if not to simplify communication and details.

G'day Del,

Does this help?

And yes, use the stick in the kerf to keep alignment. The slide/guide is not sacrificial, i mearly lift up the stick and shift the slide.

Bring your stick and a slab of beer and i will do it for you; after tea!

See you soon,

Jim

Ta, just what I need...I'll E-mail you the log, you can cut it and E-mail it back.
Of course I'll E-mail a crate of beer for your trouble.
I shall make up a slidey guidy thingy jus like that.
I've got my eye on a couple of nice bandsaws on Ebay over the next few days, not too far from Harlow fingers crossed.
Del

Email and Photo Shop are great.

I got my Medical Degree over the internet and that is how I run my practice.

Heck, why don't i just email you the band saw? You can cut as much as you want then email it back.

The blade in my saw has 1 tooth per inch. We call them Bushmill blades. Made to rip wide timber. ( 0.6 to 2.0 m ). Works really well.

Lots O Luck

Jim

Got myself a nice Badsaw off E-bay only £128 + £20 to get it delivered.
It's quite a big 'un, top end of 'hoby' size, it's on a stand, but it two of us to lift it up onto it. Here's the pic off E-bay

I'm cleaning and tuning it at the moment (& replacing the rubber antivibration mounts) It's got 150mm (~6") max cut depth.
I'm making a jig for my log cutting.
I'll post a pic when it's done.
Del

Hooray!!!

When can we come and play? I'll bring the Hunting Korean....

You'd always be welcomed to come and play bows... go on ya know ya wanna go with that Chinese repeater.
Del

Before:-

And.
After!

Yew-tastic! _{(Licking Yew is to be dicouraged as it's highly toxic)}
Del

In fact, it's intimately linked to the word "toxic" ... Taxus Baccata being the "proper" name for the [European] Yew, and thus to the "proper" term for archery: toxophily

Love

Iodhadh

We would have been sincerely impressed had you posted a video of this on Yewtube!

Couldn't help myself.

Good job well done. And no, i wouldn't lick yew. I'm not of that persuasion.