Downgrading to Windows 7

Grrrr don't start me on windows...
Mrs Cat is looking to get a new laptop. What really irritates me is that Microsnot won't give you Microsoft Word with the OS despite it being the defacto standard...they give you some crap like 'Notepad' which nobody has ever used more than once 'cos is not compatible with anything else.
Of course some will whinge...oh, but you're just buying an 'Operating System' Yeah, like last time you bought a car it had the pedals but no seats.
Then of course Microsoft whinge that everyone is borrowing Microsoft Office from their place of work...
Jeez those pillocks need a reality check...

BTW I just stuck an extra 1Gb of Ram in my PC, it's helped a lot...
<click..rant mode off>
Del

I just bought my wife a new Dell laptop with Windows XP. It's the last place on earth you can still get a PC with XP. They also ship it with a Windows 7 disk so, after Microsoft destroys XP with upgrades and we give up (like I am about to do with my desktop), you can load up 7.

I just bought a new HP Laptop downgraded from Vista to HP Professional.

180G hard drive and 4G memory that was needed to run Vista.

I also got a brand spanking new Vista Business Disc and a 7.

I am using Office 2003 (a corporate edition), and everything seems to work well except Outlook.

I might have to go with Office 2007 if I can't get the bug out.

I turned off all updates because all service packs were installed, but MS somehow trys to turn it back on.

I am on a Vista machine right now that keeps trying to download the new updates for this week, but it is having problems as it is shut off. Explain that one.

Vista had 25 or so updates this week

security stuff mostly

our vista machine was flaky for a day or so

seemed better after last nights updates

you are better off leaving the updates on & running some protection

as to xp

have you tried backing up your files

& doing a full destructive restore

xp gets full of crud & needs a good cleaning from time to time

this helps sometimes

http://www.pcdecrapifier.com/

It will even remove AOL

Download Open Office for free & forget the MS version. Maybe convert to FireFox & Thunderbird at the same time.

First let me state that I DO like XP, but it is getting harder to keep it alive and healthy.

I realize that it is a MAJOR change for most people, but you might consider getting out of the MS rut and trying a Linux variant. I have been using Ubuntu 8.04 and 9.10 on various machines with surprisingly good results. The free Open Office suite is nice and is compatible enough with real MS Office files for all my work. You can download and create an ISO "Live Boot" CD to TEST a version of Ubuntu on your existing machine without changing anything on your current hard drive. My only hurdle to date was the wireless card in my HP laptop. It required a little effort to find and load a working driver, but it is now 100% running with an Ubuntu OS.

Linux is not ready for everyone (yet), but IMHO it IS what an OS should be... free!

This is my favorite Linux variant, but there are other options:

http://www.ubuntu.com/

Linux runs faster than Windows on all my current hardware. HOWEVER, even Linux will run poorly on hardware that is too weak or too old. Read the hardware requirements before downloading any version to test. Booting from CD is always slower than a HDD boot so don't let a slow CD boot discourage you. Good luck!

I'm stuck witn Windows-based products because of my work. I gotta be able to run PP, Excel, Word, and all the other software I have loaded up. I already have that crappy 7 software on a laptop that I bought, but I need to downgrade this desktop to 7, too.

Believe me, when I hit the lottery, I am taking all my PCs out in the backyard and setting them on fire. Then I'll buy a mac. Until then, I'm doomed to working with Microsoft.

I got fed up with MS quite some time ago, and have switched almost completely to Ubuntu, running 8.04, 9.04 and 9.10 on various machines. The 8.04 is running on an older machine, and runs much faster than the XP installation that still sits on that computer (faster, as in Firefox for Internet, Open Office for Word, Excel 2000 running in Wine, Open Office for PowerPoint, plus some VERY sophisticated FEA/CFD analysis software that I got for free, compared to about $3000 for a Windows equivalent, SciLab- a free clone of Matlab, and a whole lot of other technical software). The only reason I still keep Windows around is for CAD- the Linux world has yet to come up with a reasonable CAD package. When I do a document in OpenOffice, I export it in Word format for sharing. When I do a presentation in OpenOffice, I export it in PowerPoint format for sharing. Both occasionally have trouble dealing with some of the graphics and formating schema, but not so much that they are rendered useless.

You can set up a Linux installation in a dual boot set up so that you do not lose access to your Windows resources. For free. DANGER: Once tasting Ubuntu, you may find it harder and harder to justify battling things the old MS way...

My reason for not going with Apple is the historical dearth of technical apps available from them- I still don't see a whole lot of scientific analysis stuff available for the Macs, but I don't follow that community too closely.

Del- EVERYONE uses Notepad (or it's equivalent in Ubuntu, Gedit, or any number of others)! I have yet to meet a WYSWIG word processor that can keep up with my typing. I write in a basic ASCII editor, then transfer to a WYSWIG when I am close enough to the end product to think about editing, adding figures, spell check, etc. The REAL work is done in a raw ASCII editor. Also, the files are a whole lot smaller...

Del- EVERYONE uses Notepad .
Yeah, ta for the heads up, indeed I use notepad for wrting code at work.
I meant 'wordpad' or whatever crap they ship.

I s'pose it's inertia that stops me going to Linux and technophobia that stops the man and woman in the street...they've been spoon fed pap by BG for so long they think the sky will fall in if they use any other OS.
Del

do a dual boot you'll be hooked, go here & burn a live cd, take it for a test

occasionally you may have to cut n paste something onto the commandline

come to the land of penguins, rogers head just might explode

there is a certain joy

to plugging in a printer & just having it work

without un/reinstalling driver,software.....

I can sympathize with you because I am in the same situation. I need Windows for work (CAD) but am running Linux UBuntu 8.04 on a second machine that was destined for the garbage.

Linux is my lifeline because I live in a remote area and telecommute. We have no phone but rely on Skype instead.

When I get caught up with the backlog of work that piled up while my CAD computer was down for service I intend to upgrade to the latest Ubuntu version on my back up machine. If I can salvage another computer from the dump I plan to install Ubuntu on it as well.

I have found Linux will run a lot of apps without needing additional drivers or software. This makes it worth while to put up with the initial learning curve.

My XP had proved stable until recently and I did do the weekly upgrades . BTW there is now a Service Pack 3 released. Get it if you can. I suspect your craaaaashes are due oto some other causes. My recent computer crashes were traced to a damaged chip set due to over heating. My computer runs 24/7 Two years ago I got a virus infection that was real nasty . It defeated Norton Antivirus and all the free protection software like awast, AVG etc. Trend Micro eventually eradicated it. But by then I had obtained a replacement used computer for work.

The person who had my newest Windows computer previously was a gamingi enthusiast and fried the CPU. This was replaced but evidently some of the other chips also got overheated. And I recommend you install at least 1 gigabyte of RAM memory if you can fit it. I found a replacement Mother board in a surplus shop for $150 and that price included the CPU.

If your XP computer is frequently crashing it would pay to have it checked out for other causes, be it hardware or clutter software. I did, and they recovered all the data on my computer including a back up external drive that accidentally got infected by a virus . Then they wiped the drive and did a fresh install of XP professional including SP3

I assume you regularly declutter you drive for remnants and disused sectors and temp files. This can also cause problems if not done often enough.

Although Linux does have a Skype version Windows XP runs so much much better; and sounds cleaner. And I now have CAD working smoothly again. I am running Office 2003 because of the copyright issues that is preventing MS from providing WORD in the latest edition of their software.

BTW unless you have a dealer helping you, Microsoft does not let you install XP a second time especially if you had to replace the CPU or hard drive. A dealer can get a specific access code to allow reinstalling the O/S because they can say they were doing a repair. Us mere mortals ( that is consumers) must pay thru the nose for the privilege.

The last time I had to install Windows XP, I was able to do it myself, without "dealer" permissions. I did have to buy a new CD with a new code, however. Then I had to get a second code by telephone (on line registration doesn't work if XP doesn't recognize your modem!). Time required to install Ubuntu: 8.75 hours (including eight hours of download time for the *.iso image), to a fully functional system. Time required to install XP: approximately 4 days to a minimally functional system. On the same machine. Of course, installing operating systems is not something I do for fun, so my level of expertise is somewhat limited...

I've never run into a problem with Microsoft making life difficult when re-installing an operating system. However, I did have a difficult time when re-loading the operating system in a Dell Inspiron 8100 laptop. I had the CD/DVD player module plugged-in and I tried to do everything under the sun to load the operating system; nothing. As a last ditch effort, I looked all over for the Dell CD-only player plug-in module and gave it a try. The operating system software loaded into the system without a problem ... grrr!

"I did have to buy a new CD with a new code, however".

Isn't that the same thing? paying for a CD or new code amounts to the same thing. They want money! I had the CD and the original code but no way would the install authenticate . Later on I found out if a dealer installs the new hard drive or mother board they can get the install validated by contacting MS saying this was a "repair". Two different dealers confirmed this for me.

Evidently this is regionally defined. When I attempted to re-install XP on my computer I got the validation notice and a message to phone MS. the tech support them practically accused me of attempting to run a stoln machine b. they said the computer was registereed elsewheere and had been physically modified from the configuration under which it had been orognally validated. I kind of blew up at that pont and asked what business of their it was if I moved and if I chose to upgrade my original box. That was when they said they were just checking to see if the computer had been stolen. But they still demanded payment of USD $199.95 before giving me a vaildation code. I finally shipped the drive down to the coast where my dealer friend installled a fresh O/S and shipped the drive back to me again. the perfectly good system refused to boot giving a error message sayinf "sorry windows could not load up due to recent hardware changes. I ended up having to ship the whole computer box down to the coast for validation as a unit before we could get it to run and play nice. Never mind the fact I had the laser labelled CD and the email from MS to my dealer friend giving the validation code. Because he had installed and validated the O/S on a different combination of hard drive and mother board MS would not allow the validation to stand. Since then I have heard people on other continents do not have this kind of experience I can only conclude MS tracks the geographical location of the computer being validated (using ISP addressing no doubt) How else would they know I had moved? I had not been asked for a home address but I had changed service provider when I moved.

Okay, I'm coming into this a bit late but I'd get an Excel stand alone and use Open Office Oxygen version for word docs and PP. Download it from cnet a give it a whirl.....

sing up for a google acct & the apps function will work with all that stuff.

SOP can move to the cloud

the question is, which transition is going to be the least painful

SOP what kind of email account do you have?

Knowing this bit will help figuring out a solution/exit strategy

I used to have fun with computers. That was decades ago.

I just bought a new machine w/ W7 on it, and it is working OK. (I've debated the switch to Linux or Mac many times...) W7 does not come with Outlook Express (and obviously not with Outlook). You can, however, use Windows Live Mail, which is found as a button on the Explorer browser. It seems a little tricky to set up for two different users, unless you want to implement different user accounts for W7 itself. (I think you can work around this... it's just not obvious.) Getting your addresses into WLM from Outlook is possible, but you should read about it on line.

I am using Open Office as a replacement for MS office, and like it better. It is quite solid and the download is 1/10 the size of the MS Office download. Given that they accomplish all the same stuff, you can see how bloated MS is. The Open Office interface is very much like the MS Office interface of a couple years ago, and in my opinion, far better than the new MS Office interface, which requires relearning everything for no good reason. With the new MS Office, you will find yourself saying WhereTF is the button for... although I imagine you can set it up for the classic interface or some such. But in any case, I see no reason to pay for a product that is inferior to Open Office, which I can get for free.

Open Office, however, does not come with an email client, so I use Pegasus. My wife, when she uses this machine, uses Windows Live Mail. Pegasus is free, and works well, although takes a little getting used to (for a while I though I was sending emails but was only queing them to send).

I sooo dislike MS Corp that I was actually a little miffed that W7 seemed to work well with this new machine. (For an old machine, you'd need plenty of memory and plenty of disc space.) I would just as soon not have any indication that MS are anything other than a bunch of crooks... but this blasted operating system seems to be working OK... provided you can get past their perpetual change in logic, terminology, layout, etc with each new release. Windows 3.11 for Workgroups worked just fine, in terms of its GUI. Why not really streamline the code, remove the bugs, improve performance, etc, instead of incessantly changing the look and feel and adding bloat???

As far as getting a pro... dunno. Every time I do something major with Windows, I feel there is a lot of chance involved. My switch went smoothly, but I wouldn't expect that to be the case.

I, too, prefer OpenOffice for most of my work, except for their spreadsheet app. Graphics too slow, limited functions, limited macro capabilities. Excel 2000 is the most versatile, useful and user-friendly program I have ever encountered. Later versions of Excel leave me cold. Excel 2000 runs just as fast under Wine as it does in Windows XP.

This an amusing topic; the none-love affair with Microsoft. My "love" for Microsoft dwindled to near zero when I purchased the first HP Pentium 4 system that used Windows ME. What a heap of crap Windows ME turned out to be. I currently use Windows 2000 for all my CAD stuff and it operates much faster than my XP systems. Windows 2000 boots up quickly and shuts-down even faster. My wife recently acquired a new, basic Windows 7 Dell console computer with a widescreen LCD display and she loves it. Have to admit that loading in new software is an easier task than years past. I like the wide display because it will display all the Digikey part selection options without having to scroll laterally; exceptionally cool feature that save some time. All my self-built computers from several years ago won't work with Windows 7 because of incompatibilities regarding video driver stuff. I lost interest in building computers when the Pentium operating speeds plateaued. Thermal problems with the Rambus RDRAMS didn't provide much joy, either.

I love Windows 7,

or...

save all your docs

wipe the hard drive

re install xp with sp 2

turn off automatic windows updating.

live happily ever after.

you having probs w/ xp sp3?

Not that I know of. I try to avoid downloading the service packs. SP2 just about blew me off the air. Took a couple of days to recover from that one.

I'm currently using vista home, but and the updating is broken... I'm calling that a feature.

am I missing something I was on sp 3 last summer, no real problems

IE8 would regularly kick my butt on both my xp & vista machines

much less trouble running firefox

Love the whining about Microsoft! İ have XP - and Office 2007 fully updated and no problems. One might consider checking up on the other garbage that is loaded. One the other hand it is far easier to cry about Microsoft!

But it is even easier to find something that actually WORKS...

That criticism doesn't hold water, as MS OS doesn't give you suitable tools to 'check up on the other garbage' or indeed manage anything in a controlled manner.
Del

İ was referring to what individuals load a system up with - not the trash that comes with the PC. The one comment about using dedicated a PC for tasks like autocad or similar is correct - better to stay away from the net with work applications.

I am also partial to using dedicated computers for specific tasks- hardware is cheap these days, compared to what we used to pay, and compared to the cost of software...

For CAD use, I use a dedicated computer with Windows 2000 and it's only loaded with minimal applications ... no e-mail interface. The Windows 2000 will run fine for years and then I'll need to re-install the operating system; often installing a new hard drive. I use another computer with XP that has all the junk on it and it runs slow as molasses.

You folks are scaring the snot out of me. I don't know whether to press on with what i have, reload XP, move on to 7, buy another computer and divide my applications, or move over to a completely different software package.

To me, a PC is an appliance--like a refrigerator or mkicrowave, it should work withouit any problems until it fails, and is replaced by a similar unit that does the same job. I don't have to be a certified refrigerator engineer just to keep my beer cold.

But dealing with Microsoft products isn't that easy. It's really crappy software that requires constant maintenance.

As a person in magazine editing and marketing communications, I deal with a huge amount of email traffic, often containing large attachments, such as documents and photos. This tends to befuddle Microsoft Outlook, so I have to constantly tend to its storage limitations.

I send out press releases on a regular basis to 200+ magazines, which Outlook also screws up on a regular basis. I have to send releases to no more than 10 addresses at a time--otherwise Outlook does something mean and nasty that gets me labeled as a junk mailer.

My computing requirements are minimal--mostly Word, PP, Excel and Adobe. I could get by with a PC/XT, MS-DOS and Word 2, except that wouldn't be compartible with docx files and all the other "modern" Microsoft crap.

What Microsoft has done can be considered transoptimal engineering--that is, it is so advanced and sophisticated, it doesn't work any more.

All I want is a tool so I can do my work.

This one ought to be framed!

These few words are a gold mine which microsoft has not listened to over the years. Although I don't use Mac, they are much closer to the mark, from what I hear.

Again I commend you for defining so clearly what the requirements all. We should take this to the streets. If no other definition of the requirements for personal computing were ever laid down, this would do nicely. At least for me, it evoked a strong reaction.

well done

Chris

I agree with the comment about computers being appliances. However too many people have been seduced by the versatility and 'potential' uses of a generic home computer. "just load software and maybe add a peripheral".

To use an appliance analogy A curling iron, a radiant space heater and a hot water tank all convert electrical power into heat using an electrical resistive element not none of then are really suitable for cooking a meal with. For cooking meals you need a stove.

It looks to me like you are running into data management issues not necessarily a flaky operating system. Poorly defined data handling will create storage addressing problems.

I too handle a lot of emails every day. Typically 200 or so ssme of which include multi megabyte attachments and many of these get saved by filing in a structured sub directory system. While skyping a client about the project they expressed amazement at how quickly I found and opened the photos sent to me months ago. I did this while we were talking.

Your bulk mailing of announcements to so many addresses simultaneously is going to get you flagged as a spammer no matter what unless you make pre arrangements with your ISP.

This is a safeguard to protect all of us from spamming. Are you placing the addresses in the main TO: space. Try placing the bulk of addresses in either CC or BCC spaces. I routinely receive emails from friends with as many as 20 - 30 names in the CC or BCC fields. My mother in law loves sending those cutsie chain letters around. She belongs to a national volunteer organization doing charity work and they are really into sending each other these dumb 'thougths for the day' 'prayer for so and such' etc and their mailing lists grow at an exponetiala rate. One time I counted 50 CC. So it can be done but you really need a small mailer daemon for handling large bulk mailings. you load up the bulletin and the mailer program generates the seend to list from a stored data base.

elnav-

Your comment about a "data management" situation as opposed to an operating system issue is probably on the mark. I am constantly having to clean up the wife's stored data for her, because she just can not be bothered. It is still easier on Ubuntu than it was on XP (she is a lawyer, and all of her work is in Spanish, which really creates interesting problems for me...)

Yes, my wife's computer is another story entirely. Her computer is loaded with stuff that should never be downloaded. If McAfee isn't working, she doesn't detect it and so on and so forth. She's an endless list of don't do's. Microsoft could learn a lot by looking inside of her computer. Bill

Yes, the addresses go into the BCC. I send 10 at a time, so a 200-name mailing takes me about an hour or so. Crude, but it seems to work.

I've looked at some of those mailer daemons, but don't like 'em. I may get a programmer friend to write me one, though. What I'd like is a program where I give it a list of email addresses, the message, and the attachments, and it sends them out one at a time.

As for data management, I don't keep most of the emails with megabyte attachments I get. They come in, get looked at, and then either are used or deleted. What I have to do, though, is keep deleting the trash and sent folders so Outlook doesn't freeze up. (Another annoying Microsoft foible--it doesn't tell me it ran out of memory, it just stops working. The other really nasty foible is that it doesn't really delete them--it just says it does, but you have to invoke mailbox cleanup to really get rid of them. What idiot at Microsoft wrote that crap?)

I've learned to deal with XP and its problems. I fear having to deal with all new problems with 7.

C warner's advice about a dual boot is right on target. A long time ago back in the early 1980 I resolved not to get into programming and stick to hardware. I met too many former software guys pumping gas flipping burgers or what have you because they got burned out on the job. My buddy who is still listed as a MS dealer has switched to MAC for his personal computing. Now that he is into website creation and such like he finds it easier to work with.

His comment on the subject of windows vulnerability; is based on MS using a registry file which is easily corrupted. MAC and Linux share some characteristics although they do not share source code. He contends that Linux being open source code is inherently easier to hack but as was pointed out too o few people use it at present to attract hackers and virus writers. now that MAC is gaining market sharer it will become more attractive for malware writers.

I will echo Cwarners comment about ease of learning UBUNTU which offers a desk top appearance somewhat familiar to long time windows users. My wife who is totally computer non literate has even shown me how to do things on the Linux machine. So when I scrounge a junked computer this will be loaded with UBUNTU and become hers entirely.

You might have a look at gmail

you can probably use gmail with out changing your email address

easy enough to add labels to email addresses & group them any way & in any quantity you want the organizational schemes are much more versatile than outlook, you probably can set up filters to deal with attachments on the incoming mail

7gb of free online storage will go pretty far, you can certainly deal with all the formats with google apps.

Even hotmail has a bunch of the same features, which is probably why MS has discontinued outlook

I believe as you do- a computer is a tool to accomplish work. A tool that requires constant maintenance is of lesser value than a tool that just works. Which is why I have migrated to Ubuntu. OpenOffice exports to Word formats quite readily (perhaps with some minor formating and graphics issues, but we will get to this in a moment). OpenOffice Presentations also exports to PowerPoint formats (same issue with some graphics- mostly scaling issues). If you are not doing anything exotic with Excel, OpenOffice Spreadsheet will meet most of your needs. Ubuntu comes with a "Document Viewer" that replaces Adobe Acrobat for viewing *.pdf files, and there are applications that allow you to "print" *.pdf formats, creating a *pdf file.

Firefox is a much faster browser than older versions of IE (I have no experience with newer versions), although slower than Chrome ("fast" referring to how quickly web pages load). Chrome, however, is a bit challenged when it comes to some web pages (or was, last time I tried it). Last time I tried, I could not get the GlobalSpec tool bar to work in Chrome, for example.

Evolution is the e-mail client application, and works with hotmail, gmail, and most other e-mail formats (there are other e-mail clients for the Linux platform, but I generally work my e-mail on line and don't use a local client, so I can not recommend any particular one with confidence). I don't know that it is Outlook that is labeling you as a spammer when you send out 200+ e-mails- that may be a server down the line somewhere. I have never had a storage problem with Ubuntu, although I have with MS XP- same machine, same disk capacity. I do not generally work with the volumes of documents you seem to be working with, however. I do know that I spend a whole lot less time cleaning out temp files on Ubuntu than I do with XP. I do tend to download large files on occasion, and have no problem with Firefox (faster than IE, but limited by the speed of my connection, which varies during different hours of the day).

I use GIMP for the occasional photograph that I must deal with- not photshop, but it meets my needs.

The most important thing is that all of these applications come on the LiveCD, and all of them work out of the box on a variety of hardware (even older hardware- something Vista could not do, although I understand 7 works better on older hardware- I am not sure of this). You can install Ubuntu or most other Linux distributions in parallel on the same machine as your Windows installation, so you do not have to give up what you are comfortable with until you are ready. You can access your files on the Windows sector from Linux (although not the applications directly), which is something you can not do with Windows. If there are Windows applications that you just can not live without, there are things like Wine (which I use to run Excel 2000 under Linux) or VirtualBox (which I use to run a digital oscilloscope originally written for Windows XP).

For the time being, Linux is less susceptible to infection by malware, although this is probably due to the fact that the malware writers target Windows platforms preferentially to get bigger bang for their buck, although some will claim that Linux is inherently more secure. There are some characteristics of Linux that suggest to me it would be a whole lot easier to hack than Windows, but so far not too many people are targeting Linux platforms. When I was using Windows, I generally had to do a fresh install every year or so due to some virus infection, in spite of my security efforts. So far, after several years of Ubuntu use (beginning with 7.04), the only installs I have done are an upgrade to 8.04 from 7.04 (I used 7.04 for quite some time after Ubuntu stopped supporting it with no problems- upgraded just to gain access to some newer software), and when I bought a new computer (pre-loaded with Vista) the first thing I did was wipe Vista off the computer and load two different, newer flavors of Ubuntu (one 32-bit stable and the other a 64-bit newer release for experimental purposes). The biggest time issue in installing and setting up Ubuntu is downloading the *.iso file- if you have a friend that can pass you a LiveCD, you can be up and running in less than an hour. Without discarding your current setup.

These are my experiences. I will always be greatful to Bill Gates for making consumer level computers available to the world, but Microsoft no longer produces software that meets my personal needs. Others have different experiences, and may have valid reasons for preferring one system over the other (for instance, with your description of the sort of work you do, I would think a Mac might be more appropriate for you, if price is not an issue- but that would also require a bit of a learning curve and adjustment to new ways of doing things).

My recommendation is, before you change anything, give Linux a test drive. I prefer Ubuntu, but others may have valid reasons for preferring other flavors. Try it, if you don't like it, you haven't lost anything...

PS- I have absolutely no commercial interest or other ulterior motivation for promoting Ubuntu, Linux or any other software solution.

"To me, a PC is an appliance--like a refrigerator or mkicrowave"

This proves the "genius" of Bill Gates. Where else in the world do people pay exorbitant prices for a product that is defective and them spend thousands of hours de-bugging it FOR FREE?

I don't understand what all the fuss is about. I have read through the thread and see a lot of MS hate. I have a Dell XPS Laptop with Windows Vista Ultimate 32 bit installed, and have not had a minutes trouble out of it for the past 3 years, and it is still fast. One thing that I do different is that everything I work on is on a flash drive, several in fact, CAD drawings, photos, email attachments, Word Docs, Excel files, neatly organized in a file structure. I don't download crap from the internet, or click on banner ads, or open un-solicited emails, or those from someone I don't reconize. I also archive my email every 6 months into a personal folder and to get it off of the exchange server.

BTW, I don't have a firewall enabled in Windows, and my automatic updates are enabled, no virus software, no free downloaded software, once has a free anti spyware program on another computer but it found so much stuff that I chose not to put it on this one, everything is fine so far, ignorance is bliss. I don't back up, since everything is on a flash drive anyway, I don't defragment, and I delete stuff when I am done, except for emails, I save those forever, never can tell when you might have to go to court.

I have to admit, I am getting a little bit tired of hearing all the whining about MicroSoft. Come on people! Bill Gates is not running a charity, he's running a business and is in it to make money. And if he wasn't making money, MSFT would have ceased to exist years ago and we'd be looking for something else to whine about. Bill Gates is not doing anything different than anyone else is doing, he's just made a lot more money than the rest of us.

I have been building, programing and otherwise working with computers for almost 25 years now. I have worked with just about every operating system and hardware setup there is. The simple truth is that they all have their advantages and disadvantages.

Linux and UNIX are very powerful and stable systems which run quite nicely on most PC hardware, even though it is beginning to be a little more difficult to find drivers for the older stuff. However, it is not particularly user friendly, If you go this route, expect a steep learning curve and a lot of DIY time.

Mac OSX.5/.6 is absolutely wonderful. It's extremely stable and glitch-free, and the pinnacle of user-friendliness. With the advent of things like Boot-Camp, you can run Windows and it's apps on a Mac. However, there are still very few scientific and engineering apps which actually run within the OSX framework. Plus, Macs are bullet-proof. They are built with the very finest components and are nigh-well immortal. The laptops in particular are the most elegantly beautiful machines ever created. Though they are expensive.

It's probably worth pointing out at this point that, had Steve Jobs decided to license his Mac OSes, no doubt at this point we'd be complaining about the high cost of OSX. Keep in mind that the Mac OS is only ever acquired with the machine itself or as an upgrade.

As for Windows 7, this is without a doubt the best Windows yet. I've been using it since the first beta release in January 2009, and aside from a few very minor issues, have found it to be almost completely trouble-free. It uses all of the Vista drivers, so hardware compatibility has been a non-issue on most machines. Granted, it does need significant horsepower to run well. I've run it successfully on an IBM T40 (upgraded to T42 spec), a Dell Inspiron e1505, and a Lenovo T61, with absolutely no trouble at all.

So, what is needed is a careful analysis of what you want this computing appliance to actually do for you, and then make your hardware and software choices based upon your actual needs. You don't buy a bleeding edge workstation for basic surfing and e-mail anymore than you'd use a toaster to heat a can of soup. Based upon what I've heard, I agree that a Mac would be SlowOldPoop's best choice. And you can even get stuff like MSOffice for OSX.

if you don't like to heat up your food on a gas stove

you might prefer a microwave

appliances should work the way you want them to

gates isn't running MS

his successors, are busy throwing out the baby with the bath water

reminds me of dealing with allan bradley PLC software

My esteemed colleague, would you like some cheese with that whine? If you don't like Microsoft, vote with your wallet and use something else.

I'm on the laptop running unbuntu,

you told me to throw out while trying to reinstall xp...

I don't have need for wine quite yet...

time marches on

the future is in the clouds

the OS become less relevant everyday

As I recall, I told you that your machine was getting long in the tooth and unlikely to be recoverable, particularly with Windows. Congratulations on recovering it with Linux. It's a job of work to learn, but it is worth the effort. Though I admit I kinda like Fedora.

vote with your wallet and use something else.
So you can by a PC at your local store without MS installed at a suitably reduced price?

Actually, you can buy a great many PCs with a Linux distribution pre-installed. Mostly though you have to order them from the manufacturers that way. Or you can go ahead and build a desktop machine to your particular taste and program it as you see fit. I've been doing that for years. Laptops of course are a somewhat different matter, though I've upgraded any number of them with faster CPUs, more RAM, bigger drives and faster wireless cards. It all depends on how much you are willing to spend and your level of technical savvy.

why is Dell on your no list?

It's on mine because they change things around enough so as to render the hardware proprietary & exclusive.

Dell is on my "No" list because they are on the bottom of the heap when it comes to product warranty claims. A few years ago, they were on the top of my personal "Yes" list because they provided the best value for dollar invested, and would customize a system to suit your personal requirements. They seem to have lost their dedication to quality.

Lenovo, particularly the T and W series ThinkPads, and Apple's MacBook Pro are at the top of my Yes list. These are tough, top quality machines. Costly, but nigh-well immortal. I have a T40 that is almost 8 years old and still going strong, and a T61 that has replaced it as my primary. I might also add that their service is always first rate.

Dell, HP and Acer are at the top of my No Way In Hell list. I had an HP and an Acer that I bought brand new, neither of which lasted a month beyond their warranty. I have a 4 year old Dell e1505 that broke a hinge before it was 2 years old and when I call Dell, I never get someone whose speech is intelligible. Cheap machines and poor service.

Acer remains on my "Yes" list for one simple reason- I spend a lot of time out in the jungle, and have on occasion lost a laptop to an ocean wave or falling off a horse. Of the low-cost, throw-away class, Acer (at least here in Panama) offers the best option.

I had a couple of 10 year old IBM Thinkpads that I loved dearly. When they died, IBM had recently sold the mark to Lenovo, and it wasn't clear to me that Lenovo was up to IBM standards. It now appears that they are, and Lenovo is back on my "Yes" list.

My latest experience with Toshiba has been less than perfect- I have this wierd problem with the keyboard going in to a rebellion mode, and eating all my "r"'s as I type. As soon as I plug in my external keyboard, the internal one starts behaving properly once more. As I said, wierd.

Apple would be very high on my "Yes" list, but for the fact that most of the really important applications I need for my work are not available for Macs. However, the way Apple has been going, there is a good chance that I could set one up to work the way I want it to- but I do not currently have the resources to invest in an "experiment" like that. There is a good chance, however, that my next laptop will be an Apple- running Linux.

Actually my friend, I am of the understanding that OSX is based upon BSD UNIX and can run UNIX and Linux code. Check with atsysusa, he's kind of the authority on this. But I think you just might be able to run the MacBook Pro right out of the box.

Where I had a real issue with Apple (we are talking 1980's here) was when I was trying to do some data acquisition work, and they would not share the addresses needed to talk to a particular interface. That's when I bought my first HP computer (this was back when HP was putting out some phenomenal equipment, and computers were only peripheral to their product line. HP used to be a great company, back in the days). That first computer ran on HP-UX, a dirivitive of Berkeley V. Years later, I switched to Microsoft for one reason, and one reason only- Excel.

These days, I have the need for some pretty sophisticated analysis software (FEA, CFD, etc.). I can pay thousand$$$ for a commercial multiphysics suite to run on Windows, or I can download CAELinux for free. I do not believe Apple has available a comparable native suite that meets those requirements. But now, from what I read, I can run OSX, Windows and Linux simultaneously on the same MacBook Pro. One still needs Windows to do serious CAD work (I have Excel 2000 running under Wine, so I no longer need Windows for that). Apple has always been the leader in desktop publishing (I do have to write an occasional report, with graphics and formulas), and Linux for the scientific stuff. I would be a happy camper.

If I had $2500 or whatever to spend on a new computer...

My friend, when I win the lottery, I will buy one for me and one for you.

Seriously though, if money were no object, I would be hard pressed to decide between the Lenovo and the Mac. Both very solid machines, both built with the very best components available, both tough enough to pound nails with. The Lenovo has a lot more configuration options, swappable batteries (for those extended field trips), and professional grade graphics, though I am not happy about the switch to 16:9 screens across most of the line.

The Mac has a lot of similar features, and has something called MagSafe, which connects the power adapter to the laptop via magnets and surface contacts. This is a very big deal, because one of the biggest killers of laptops is when someone trips over the power cord, either hooking it too the floor or tearing the adapter plug loose from the motherboard. On the downside, the graphics are nVidia GeForce, which is primarily a gaming chip, and the standard screen is so glossy that it's impossible to use in anything but fairly low light (though you can order one with a matte screen)

And, on the one hand, the MacBook Pro is quite possibly the most elegantly beautiful laptop ever made, whereas the ThinkPad is as ugly as a brick.

Tough call between the two. Very tough call.

Very, very good, rational analysis. One point, however- I have recently run in to issues with Intel integrated graphics on my Toshiba (involving some FEA software and 3D animation), and research has determined that the Intel drivers available for Linux are less than perfect, and that the NVidia graphics are much better. I don't know enough about NVIDIA products at this point to distinguish between the different flavors (although I know there is an order of magnitude difference in prices between low end and high end cards!). I have been able to work around the limitations of the Intel drivers, but it is something I will pay closer attention to when it comes time to replace the laptop...

Definition of terms. A professional graphics card is designed for CAD/CAM. A video or gaming card is designed for home use and video gaming. In the real world though, these definitions can become very confused.

So, briefly. In CAD/CAM, we have huge numbers of polygons which don't move around a lot. In gaming, you have relatively few polygons which move about very rapidly indeed. So the two types have quite the opposite requirements, and graphics engines are designed to support these requirements. Thus, a top level video card will not do so well for high end CAD/CAM, nor will a top level pro graphics card do so well for high end gaming.

Professional graphics cards have nVidia Quadro or ATI Fire chips, whereas video cards will have the nVidia GeForce or ATI Radeon.

I might add that higher level laptops usually have discrete graphics, which is to say, a separate chip to handle the graphics chores. As opposed to integrated graphics, where the graphics output is handled by the the same chipset that handles everything else on the motherboard. For example, my T61 has an nVidia Quadro professional graphics chip.

It's worth pointing out that discrete graphics have somewhat higher power requirements than integrated graphics. Which is why the ThinkPads and MacBook Pros are now available with switchable graphics, so that you can use the integrated graphics to maximize battery life, but still have the high-powered discrete graphics when you are plugged in or otherwise need them.

Thank you. Most helpful. Until I purchased this Toshiba, I never thought much about graphics cards. It was the combination of Linux and Intel integrated graphics that gave me heartburn. Now I know I want to look for nVidia Quadro or ATI Fire chips, since the only "gaming" I do is an occasional bout of solitaire or Minesweeper...

We bought a Lenovo for my 11 year old grandson & it's been abused in ways that only children can manage yet still performs faultlessly.

'appliances should work the way you want them to' Yes - that is true but you should buy the right appliance with the right attachments (software) to do the job. Many of the replies here just show that people don't understand how to setup and use a PC or are trying to use a minibus as a full sized school bus. İ have no desire to mess with operating systems - too confusing. İ also have no problems with windows (all are sliding windows though).

The reason why 98SE is/was so much faster than XP was simply because it was a fly-weight program, whereas XP is much heavier. Consider, 98SE was what, less than 200 megs if I remember it correctly. XP Pro was 4-5 gigs. Windows 7 takes up more than 20 gigs on my T61 for the whole thing. Small wonder they take more horsepower to run well.

You're also right, Windows ME was horrible, and it took more than a year for XP to mature into a decent OS. And of course then Vista came out, which was at least as bad as ME. I remember 95 was pretty buggy too.

For me, I've stuck with Windows all these years for three simple reasons. PC hardware was always cheaper than Mac. Windows was always easier to use than Linux. And all of my clients used Windows. By this time I think I've gotten a little bit set in my ways, even though I am comfortable in Linux and OSX.

I agree. The Mac looks like the best option. Masha Allah it is faster more stable, much less problems with security. In addition to MSOffice, which is newer on the Mac but does not have the foreign language support, there is also NeoOffice, which is similar to OpenOffice which is available free with option to donate. Ever since my wife bought me a MacBook Pro for my birthday I have not touched the Dell Dimension 9500 running XP, I handed it down to my son :-) My Mac runs OSX and Windows XP Home, which insha Allah I will upgrade to Windows 7. If you need to switch between the two OS's, or any other OS, just get something like Parallels or Virtue so when you are going through your emails in OSX and need something done in Windows just hit the button and you're in Windows. Check this link for an example: http://www.oreillynet.com/mac/blog/2006/05/fast_os_switching_on_intel_mac.html Masha Allah this is a good time to get a MAC as they have just upgraded their MacBook Pro line and they now come with the new Intel i5 and i7 chips more onboard RAM and bigger HD Insha Allah transferring info from your pc to Mac should be easy too, I did mine via Mail, the Mac mail app. All the best.

If you were happy with XP, why didn't you just switch off the automatic upgrade and, not accept the upgrades.

Windows 7 is actually not bad. Just buy and install. There are two versions of Windows 7, upgrade (if you already have an MS OS on your system, or brand spanking new if you don't. Since you have XP already on your system, just buy the upgrade version and install. If you install over an existing MS OS it will preserve your settings.

You can see the difference in the upgrade and new versions on Amazon (see link below). It looks like $150 and $105.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=windows&x=0&y=0

However, when I go to a new OS I generally like to wipe the system clean and do a fresh install. A lot of muck builds up over years of computer use.

Roger I'm worried, you avatar seems to be ageing at an alarming rate....
Del

I'm just switching it up. I'm reading Moby Dick so I decided to go with Captain Ahab. The Gregory Peck version.

"Dulce et decorum est pro micromollis mori"

Actually I bought a new machine at Christmas with Windows 7. It runs great.

Thanks for all the useful comments and advice in answer to my original question. Just to clarify, I know about 7 because my laptop has it. I still prefer XP and Word 2003. My problem is what to do about my desktop that has an apparently damaged (by Microsoft updates) XP and Outlook installed. That's my workhorse machine.

Very accurate and concise summary of the situation, DrMoose.

Thank you Mr. Warner. Praise from you is high praise indeed.

I would certainly do a full destructive restore after backing up the files & reinstall xppro as the primary option

Isn't his real problem with outlook?

SOP was here a few months ago, outlook was giving him fits

If he absolutely must have this sort of program [mail client?], what would you suggest?

what would MS suggest, seeing as they're not supporting outlook anymore?

does 2010 office have another way of handling the functions he requires?

I have been using Hotmail for years, without using an email client. I leave my e-mails "in the cloud", unless I have some specific reason for downloading them (i.e., printing). One does not need an e-mail client at all, actually...

I absolutely agree with you. I use Hotmail and Yahoo. If I must have an e-mail client for some reason, I use Thunderbird. In my experience, Outlook is full of all manner of holes.

I've been using Outlook for years, have a bunch of mailing lists on there, and can sort all my messages by clients. I would hate to lose all that or have to rebuild it in some other system.

I don't particularly like Outlook, seeing as how it's crappy Microsoft software, but it's what I got.

You folks have straightened me out on one point, though. I thought if I went to 7, I'd get an updated Outlook. But now I see that it's not supported any more.

Hotmail allows you to set up all the folders you need, and allows you considerable control of your address book, as does Yahoo mail. Give them a try, I think you'll find them to be adequate to your needs. However, if you do really need an e-mail client, Thunderbird, the companion of Firefox, is quite good.

Gmail as I said in an earlier post will let you do labels & folders

along with google apps which will open up spreadsheets, powerpoints & PDFs

I guess the question is which migration will be the most painless

You folks have straightened me out on one point, though. I thought if I went to 7, I'd get an updated Outlook. But now I see that it's not supported any more.

I hope I didn't mislead you. Outlook Express used to come with the Windows operating systems. Outlook, on the other hand, came as a part of MS Office. For many users, Outlook Express was a pretty good email client, and Outlook offered features they did not need or want. Those people were surprised to find that Outlook Express does not come with W7. Those people can use Windows Live Mail, which seems to work OK.

But if you are happy with Outlook, then you can buy Outlook 2007, which works under W7, and they'll give you Outlook 2010 when it is ready. All your contacts will transfer easily.

Thanks. That was going to be my next question: How can I upgrade Outlook? Looks like 7, Office 2007 and Outlook 2007 may be the best--well, easiest, anyway-- upgrade path.

If your hardware is OK and your'e happy with XP and still have your original Windows XP disk. Place it in your first CD/DVD drive and shutdown Windows. After 15 seconds start up PC. You should get a menu where one of the options is "Repair Windows XP". Choose this option (this might take as long as 4 - 6 hours depending on machine). This is basically reinstalling windows so it doesn't touch your apps or data files. You might want to do a defrag first. I've had good luck with this procedure.

I had lots of problems getting "todays" programs to run on my computer with WIN 2K. So I bought the bullet and got windows 7 pro. I backed up all my files on a transfer drive (Hitachi Simpletough 320 Gig). Then did a clean install of win 7. No problems! Amazing, a Microsoft product that works the first time out. Moved my files back, again no problems. Going from W2K directly to Win 7 took some getting used to, especially the library system, but it all works. One hint, I bought some parts online from Newegg.com and purchased the OEM version of Win 7 pro from them. It's cheaper that way.

Sometime when I have a day to read all the posts here ...it should be interesting reading. Nothing stirs the pot and brings out comments like Microsoft.

I use Windows 7 and would like to say quietly that I actually like it. (I don't want 10,000 e-mails telling me I've finally lost all my marbles) Its the 64 bit version and I installed the 32 bit version of Office 2003. It works fine with absolutely no problems. I used Windows Easy Transfer (built into Win 7) to transfer all my files and settings, including e-mail from the old XP machine. Outlook transferred so it looks identical to the old machine.

I've got 3 old XP machines which run without problems. I would make a guess you have some kind of software conflict or more likely some piece of hardware is going bad to cause you your problems. It very well could be some program isn't releasing the ram and it's ringing the wrong bell as it runs out of memory... so down you go.

This comment is one of the most comprehensive I've read: DrMoose on

Re: Best Alternatives to Vista: Windows XP Pro or Version 7?

Very good assessment, and some similarities to my own experiences- except I switched to Linux after my initial experiences with XP (early on). I still run XP Pro on one of my computers (now, I agree, much more stable), and one of my machines still runs 98SE. One thing that I do NOT do, however, is put my Windows machines on line. One of the primary motivations for switching was the excessive amount of time spent "maintaining" the Windows systems- and having to rebuild every six months or so due to malware infections, etc. I switched to Linux thinking there just had to be a better way, and wound up with Ubuntu. I ran Ubuntu 7.04 for quite some time, long after it was no longer "supported", and never had an issue with it. I actually find Ubuntu easier to learn than either Vista or 7 (I have only had a very cursory look at 7, I admit, but what little I have seen, it is not as user-friendly, in my mind, as Ubuntu). I am running a 64-bit version of Ubuntu 9.10 on one of my machines with no difficulty what so ever. I doubt the latest versions of Ubuntu would load on my 98SE machine- but it still does some useful work for me. For the time being, I have no problem with putting my Ubuntu machines on line- a situation that is likely to change if Linux ever gains sufficient market share to become an attractive target for malware writers...

I find much less attention to system maintenance is required for Linux- again, my experience with 7 is quite limited. The variety of applications available for Linux systems is getting more and more sophisticated, and, if one really enjoys pain and agony, it is possible to get a lot of Windows applications running in virtual machines under Linux.

However, I have to admit, if Microsoft had not tried to stuff Vista down my throat, and had not reworked Excel to where I can no longer find my way around, I would probably still be using Windows as my primary operating system. Now that I have made the switch, however, it is very unlikely that I will ever go back. I do not believe Linux is for everyone- if you are really in to gaming, or CAD, Windows is the only viable option. If you are in to desktop publishing, no one can beat Apple. But, for my applications, Linux is perfect.

There is an especially interesting distro of Linux out of France that is my idea of how a system should be offered. It is called CAELinux, and the latest version is built on Ubuntu 8.04. The beauty is not the operating system, however- the entire package is essentially a bunch of what would be called "multiphysics" applications, bundled together into a single system. One need not struggle with adding missing components, or looking for missing drivers. It would be as if Microsoft sold a single package that included the complete Office suite, MatLab, COMSOL, AutoCAD, etc. in a single package.

GA bwire. I've been running 7 ever since the first beta came out. For me, its been good. The best Microsoft has ever produced.

The market votes and Microsoft has won the most votes for the most years with over 90% of the sales. I give them credit for that. I do knock them for some of the things they do. Microsoft is good at programming and making money but I don't like some of their tactics. When another company makes an OS the consumers like more than Microsoft, we'll have someone else to bash.

I had about 20 customers with Macs and it was difficult to meet Apple's sales goals no matter how hard we pushed. On the other hand, we had about 3000 customers with PC's. What else can I say?

Randy

OOOH!

you can downgrade to windows vista it is better than windows 7

You're kidding, right?

Looks like the best solution for me is to upgrade (sorry, downgrade) to Windows 7 and Office 2007. That should get rid of the Outlook memory limitation and XP blowing up 3 or 4 times a day. Here's what I have in my desktop:

AMD Athlon 2 GHz processor with 1.75 GB RAM and a 140GB hard drive

Is that enough to support Windows 7?

Based upon the raw specs, probably. If it's Vista compatable, it will run Windows 7. Now, you can do this yourself, and any of us will be happy to walk you through it. But you will need some information before you proceed.

First of all, is this a manufacurer PC, or built from components? If it's a Dell, HP, etc, get the model number off the manufacturers tag on the back of the machine. If not, is it an Athlon XP or a an Athlon 64? What make and model motherboard are you using? What make and model video card. These are important questions, because they determine what drivers you will need to download. Before you install your new OS, open up your box and find and copy the make and model number of each of your components and write them down. Then, do to the manufacturers websites and research them. Or, if you wish, send me the numbers and I will research them for you. And while you have the box open, take a can of air and blow out the case, thoroughly.

Oh and one other thing, you do have a DVD drive, right? Windows 7 only comes on DVD.

So, assuming that your research indicates that your machine is capable of handling Windows 7, acquire the appropriate version, preferably 64 bit if you have an Athlon 64.

Okay, from here it gets just a tiny bit complicated, not because it's hard to do but because there are so many different ways to proceed. Hmmmmm.....

Tell you what. I've done this quite a number of times, so, get me the numbers as I asked above, and I will figure out how best to proceed.

Thanks for your kind offer.

It's a custom box, built by an engineer at Rockwell Collins two years ago. So, I guess I'll have to take it apart. This should be fun. Isn't there some way to have Windows XP tell me what's in there?