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One More Bites the Dust

05/23/2010 7:33 AM

Thanks all it has been fun but I am done. Bye

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#1

Re: One more bites the dust

05/23/2010 9:34 AM

Bye.

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#2

Re: One more bites the dust

05/23/2010 9:43 AM

Good Bye Steve.

Take care of yourself.

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#3

Re: One more bites the dust

05/23/2010 12:11 PM

So long. Stay well.

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#4

Re: One more bites the dust

05/23/2010 3:12 PM

Stay cool man.
Del

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#5

Re: One more bites the dust

05/23/2010 6:54 PM

Its been a pleasure, look after yourself and pop in now and again.

Regards JD.

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#6

Re: One more bites the dust

05/23/2010 10:49 PM

It's been good to talk, argue & laugh

Care to tell us why?

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#7

Re: One more bites the dust

05/23/2010 11:19 PM

I would be interested in knowing what has caused your decision. At any rate, your legacy of excellence will continue to inform and educate.

Best Wishes Steve S.

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#9
In reply to #7

Re: One more bites the dust

05/23/2010 11:36 PM

I just looked at 2 of his last postings

high blood pressure is my guess

too bad

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: One more bites the dust

05/23/2010 11:53 PM

My guess is Steve decided he had too much going on, and this is something he needed to drop out of (hopefully for a short season). Each of us have only 24 hrs a day, and he might have higher priorities than posting and debating on this board.

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#21
In reply to #10

Re: One more bites the dust

05/24/2010 9:36 AM

Why? because he said it's been fun?

You don't believe that do you?

Steve S. wouldn't even believe that.

..saying he "One more bites the dust" and leaving with a bye.. Is not the friendliest exit, but it's close.

I agree he has higher priorities.. all of a sudden.

....This is a community forum. We learn lot, and in the process we also listen to a lot of BS.

... It can only make you stronger!

..did you know? Some people fly off the handle at the simple use of emoticons!

IMOHO

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#22
In reply to #21

Re: One more bites the dust

05/24/2010 9:46 AM

Hey JE - how come your post count is the same for 2 posts? Have Our Benevolent Overloads abandoned ship?

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#23
In reply to #22

Re: One more bites the dust

05/24/2010 9:50 AM

Que?

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#24
In reply to #23

Re: One more bites the dust

05/24/2010 10:04 AM

Tis 356 posts in both

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#25
In reply to #24

Re: One more bites the dust

05/24/2010 10:08 AM

... always works that way ... look at mine or your own.

The post count blongs you, not the post.

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#35
In reply to #21

Re: One more bites the dust

05/24/2010 8:55 PM

I have occasionally disappeared for weeks or months at a time, due to different urgencies. It would not surprise me if Steve has similar issues.

If he is leaving abruptly due to his annoyance with people, posts, moderators, or other issues, it is sad, but I sort of understand. I had a close friend leave Facebook abruptly for similar reasons.

Part of me would like to know more, but then the saner part of me reminds me it really is none of my business. I agree it is sad (since he was a good, thoought-provoking commentor with some common sense), but very few of us are really close enough to Steve to deserve that information.

I do wish him well.

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#37
In reply to #35

Re: One more bites the dust

05/24/2010 9:36 PM

Quite correct and a GA. As I said earlier, I wish Steve all the best. While a part of me is curious about the reason for the departure, I'm glad he said Good Bye. I just hope that he lurks back once or twice to see our farewells.

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#8

Re: One more bites the dust

05/23/2010 11:36 PM

Thanks for being around! Sad to see you go, I hope it is only a short break.

Take care! I appreciated your presence on this biard.

Ried

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#11

Re: One more bites the dust

05/24/2010 2:46 AM

All the best. See you around sometime.

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#12

Re: One more bites the dust

05/24/2010 2:48 AM

Cheers Steve,

Thanks for the input over time. Hope you can dust yourself off in time and drop a few lines of wisdom or funnies again.

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#13

Re: One more bites the dust

05/24/2010 2:50 AM

Yep, life gets like that. All the best, Ky.

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#14

Re: One more bites the dust

05/24/2010 4:34 AM

Sorry to see you go - you talked more sense than most.

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#15

Re: One more bites the dust

05/24/2010 4:44 AM

Cheers Steve. No one will be upset if you re-consider: quite the opposite.

Perhaps we should all go vote for Steve's objection to unnecessary moderator interference (of course I have no idea how much of the original post was edited).

http://cr4.globalspec.com/comment/570098/Re-How-About-Concentrating-on-One-Thing

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#16

Re: One more bites the dust

05/24/2010 5:08 AM

I am sad Steve.

My thoughts are this

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#17

Re: One more bites the dust

05/24/2010 7:37 AM

Steve, I am also sorry to see you go and hope you will reconsider.

I am one of those "drop by once or twice a week" people who just doesn't have the time to follow all that is going on. We seem to have lost several good people and I don't follow things close enough to know what is going on. Sparkstation might have been health, job demands or other "not bad feelings" reasons. I got hit with rude comments by someone when I didn't know the Blinkey details, but that seems to have been new moderators and posts about religion. Steve S. seems to be frustrated with new moderators and posts about BP. I can't recall names, but I think at least several other good people have left with feathers ruffled.

Perhaps it would be good if someone who knows details about what is going on would start a thread with details of the issues with moderators. I doubt that I am the only one that doesn't really know what is going on. Go ahead and blast me for being insensitive or whatever, but I just don't have the time to go back through hundreds of posts to try to figure this all out. I barely have time to figure my own life out. And, if the moderators are changing threads then it is impossible for me (or others) to figure it all out by reading the rants anyway.

Detailing what was changed and the negative consequences might be helpful. Having a larger number of better informed people at issue with the moderators might have a better chance of generating change than a smaller number of very well informed people who have valid points but are often seen by outsiders as only angry.

When it comes to heated issues such as the BP spill here are three points to consider:

1) We all consume oil and oil based products. Actually, our houses and everything in them was delivered by oil industry powered transportation. Many of the products in our houses are from oil based products or made possible by oil industry based chemicals. We drive too much, leave the lights and TV on too much and overall consume more energy than we should. Like it or not, we are all better off due to the oil industry, we are all addicted to the oil industry and our dollars DEMAND that the oil industry exist and push to cut costs. Thus, no matter what one of us might say we all are strong supporters of the oil industry by our live styles and the manner in which we DEMAND service from the oil industry.

But, before you decide to attack or support me in my above statement.....

2) Anyone who cares to be reasonable would have admitted that something like this or even worse was going to happen. And, anyone who is dealing with reality should admit that something like this spill or much worse will happen again and probably many more times. It might be an accident, an earthquake, an act of terrorism, or whatever. Bottom line, it will happen again and the only way someone could say that that it won't is if they are making the choice to be stupid.

So what good can come from the negativity of #2. Well, as an engineer I see this as a pipe that needs a cork put in it. It is a very special cork and there is a lot of pressure to stop. Also, the pipe is rather large (probably somewhere between 8" and 16") and it is located thousands of feet under water. Ok, I don't think it is realistic for one of us to take a Saturday morning trip to the hardware store and get the supplies to plug the pipe. But, I bet that if someone had given an organization like the US Navy (military) or Woods Hole (private industry) a year or two to work on the problem and a budget of a few percent of this cleanup cost then they could have come up with and fully provision several good solutions that would work. If you are in the business of taking $20 to the hardware store every third Saturday morning then this is a big deal. If you are in the business of investing millions of dollars over a several year period on a big underwater project then this doesn't look like a goal that can't be met.

By the way, each oil company is in business to make a profit. Without government regulation they are not going to make this large investment on their own.

3) Government is a collection of people who are suppose to make wise long term decisions for us. But, typically they make decisions based upon the short term pressure applied to them. If the big industry lobbies say "no more regulations" and the people say "I want the lowest possible energy prices today" then government is going to ignore the "once every ten years doom and gloom" and take the easy path. Thus, this will probably happen again and again (over a long period of time) and we will probably never take proper action to be ready for it.

So what does all this mean:

1) There are many valid reasons to love the oil industry. Like it or not, this is true.

2) There are many valid reasons to hate the oil industry. Like it or not, this is true.

3) Many people will focus on #1 or #2 and anger the people who focus on the other.

4) The oil industry, the governments and the people ALL together caused the lack of ability to respond to this accident by placing a higher value on "now" rather than being prepared for problems that will occur at some unknown time "later".

5) The people in Global Spcec's ivory towers above the CR4 server room are in the business of making money. Part of this is not letting the CR4 server room offend people/industries that are part of the process of making money for Global Spec. Are they perfect at this, I suspect most would agree that that answer is no. But, since the CR4 server is plugged into their outlet it makes sense that they would want to keep their fingers in the cookie jar.

6) Having the engineers and technical people at CR4 stay together is what is best for us.

7) Making CR4 moderator details easy to find would probably be the best (maybe not good but probably still best) way to deal with the issues of moderators doing things that CR4 users don't agree with.

I hope that Steve is just a little caught up in the love/hate relationship we have with the oil industry (his life's work and source of income) and will rejoin us later when we are getting worked up over something else.

Bruce

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#26
In reply to #17

Re: One more bites the dust

05/24/2010 10:29 AM

now there is some divine sense!!!! GA BruceFlorida!

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#27
In reply to #17

Re: One more bites the dust

05/24/2010 12:02 PM

Bruce, don't forget that for many people there is a certain level of animosity directed at the oil industry due to the fact we all must basically pay what the oil companies demand for their products and many, in fact most, people don't have a very clear understanding of what goes into the prices we all must pay. People in fact conveniently forget about all the myriad things that they use on a daily basis that are derived from the oil industry. I would submit that most people haven't even given it a second's thought how impossible modern life would be without oil derived products. And because they don't understand, they assume (wrongly 99.9999% of the time) that they are simply being bent over without even the benefit of some petroleum based lubricant simply because the industry can. The market forces and the costs and risks involved are complex and even industry insiders sometimes have a hard time understanding them, at least in detail. It can be quite maddening/infuriating for those of us in the industry and know the issues involved better than most to have people who clearly have no clue what they are talking about trying to lecture us on what to do and how to do it and who get all upset when the stark reality of the situation is explained to them, simply because they "feel" things should be different. Teleology runs rampant in society today. It is part of what makes being a misanthrope so appealing sometimes. =b

I would challenge anyone who wishes to comment negatively on the oil industry to stop, take a deep breath, and try to catalog all the thousands of ways in which each of us use an oil derived product every day and how modern life might exist without it. Once you've done that and realize just how pervasive the oil industry influences are in our lives then we can discuss the need to reduce the production of oil and gas. Until then, STFU!

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#28
In reply to #27

Re: One more bites the dust

05/24/2010 1:03 PM

The straw that broke the camels back seems to be the lack of transparency by the site moderators

after many assurances of improvement by the new regime

Back to the same old shyt

sure there was probably some cussing involved in the post in question

so what,

sometimes the conversation is less than polite, just like the real world....

the eco system that is CR4 can be damaged beyond repair

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#29
In reply to #27

Re: One more bites the dust

05/24/2010 3:09 PM

It's an astonishing testimony to the industry that oil is cheaper than milk. What happened with BP (if indeed the blame can be put on their doorstop) could have happened with a multitude of other companies. Beasting up BP does not address the problem. If anybody sincerely felt it was in someway 'wrong', they wouldn't go fuel up their car tomorrow. An accident occurred, and it needs dealing with. We would not be talking on the internet without petroleum, and have to accept the associated risks.

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#30
In reply to #29

Re: One more bites the dust

05/24/2010 5:20 PM

I'll take just a moment to step back up on my soap box. Kris's last few words "and have to accept the associated risks" could, in my opinion, use a little expansion. We the people with the right to vote made the short sighted decision to have today's gas price be the most important issue. And the combination of oil companies and government answered our demands with, as Kris pointed out, gasoline that is less expensive per gallon than milk. But, in my opinion "have to accept the associated risks" lets us off the hook too easily.

Some sort of a mini sub with a variety of cutting, plugging, welding and/or other tools could have been developed along with the procedures and training to address this type of accident. The well should have been an active spill for only 2 or 3 days. I don't know what percentage of blame to try to assign to each company for the accident happening. But I doubt that we would be fair to blame any of them for not being prepared to deal with it. The "well plugging sub" resource would be very expensive and not used very often. Development of this technology would probably have to be industry wide (therefore government mandated) or international (governments working together).

So, to take the liberty of reworking Kris's last sentence:
* We all must accept that accidents will occur, and
* We all (people and government) should accept the blame for not being prepared.


P.S.
I am not anti oil industry and I'm hoping the last paragraph of Rorschach's #27 was not directed to me. I worked for big oil for one year, my father 30+ years and quite a few years for my mother and grandmother. Big oil fed me as a child, put me through college and provides me with all the toys that I enjoy working with as an engineer. I am also expecting either tar balls or an oil slick in my town within a week or so. I am a supporter of big oil, but I also support the idea that adjustments might need to be made from time to time. So far our response to oil spills seems to be about as good as our response to hurricanes and earthquakes. I think we could use a little work on all of them.

As I step down from my soap box I hope Steve will not forget the CR4 URL.

Bruce

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#31
In reply to #30

Re: One more bites the dust

05/24/2010 5:57 PM

No Bruce it was NOT directed at you. I will withhold the names in order to protect the guilty, but they know who they are, or should at least...

As to your super duper oil well plugging sub, you also fail to note that testing such a device in a real world environment would probably be very messy and since accidents are, by their very nature, unpredictable, designing the sub with every permutation conceivable is still no assurance that the tools on hand will work in your emergency instance. This is I would add the exact case here. We have lots of tools in our inventory, but it isn't just having a lot of tools, you have to have the RIGHT tool for the situation. Often those tools are designed on the fly because you cannot predict what the tool may have to work around.

By the way, these subs exist and are in use every day. They are called ROV's and they are the workhorse of subsea work. It is the tooling packages that the subs use that would need to be developed, and most of them already have been. the trick is finding a methodology that will work in a given circumstance.

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#34
In reply to #31

Re: One more bites the dust

05/24/2010 8:45 PM

Actual photo of BP at work on the situation

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#36
In reply to #34

Re: One more bites the dust

05/24/2010 9:10 PM

I wouldn't want to land that chopper in strong winds or be anywhere near the thing if and when it lands.

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#18

Re: One more bites the dust

05/24/2010 7:40 AM

You leave nearly 2000 posts which visitors can benefit from. The ratio of posts to GA's indicates how much your input has been valued. Thank you, and best wishes.

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#20
In reply to #18

Re: One more bites the dust

05/24/2010 9:01 AM

..I dunno.. take a look at that "Caption This" he jumped on.

kinda bizarre..

but a GA! ...AND it seems he missed the point of the photo completely!

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#19

Re: One more bites the dust

05/24/2010 8:07 AM

Steve, I'm sorry to see you leave, you've been an excellent poster. I'd be curious as to your reasons, if you don't feel like sharing in the forum, feel free to email me.

It's been good chatting with you and you'll be missed around here.

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#32

Re: One more bites the dust - open letter to The Moderators

05/24/2010 6:45 PM

Moderators,

There has been a lot of discussion with talk by some of you moderators recently, after which I gained the impression that you had the intention of making moderation more transparent; namely:

  • To identify the moderator,
  • To indicate that the post had been 'moderated', and
  • To give some indication regarding the 'moderation' (cuts/edits/pulled posts).

Could you please explain why none of these laudable proposals was implemented?

I hope you realize that your actions - and lack of transparency - are (I believe - but I stand to be corrected) the reason for the loss of yet another intelligent, knowledgeable and articulate CR4 member.

JohnDG.

Postscript: May I propose some form of 'sin bin' into which (unmodified) moderated posts could be placed. I have not yet thought through the issues of access. JDG.

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#33
In reply to #32

Re: One more bites the dust - open letter to The Moderators

05/24/2010 8:31 PM

I have not yet thought through the issues..

Me neither, though I do watch the list of departees with horror.

Let moderors use a particular ID when editing or deleting posts. No need to be personal, just who <# number> deleted and why. Somebody banned should be allowed the chance to state their point of view on their profile page. The naughty step is not an unfamiliar place to me, though I have been accorded the chance to explain myself (exception being last time, when I got reprieve by saying no more than 'sorry I phrased that bad' - the sentiment was true, but lack of explanation is not my loss. Somebody with a differing opinion gaffer taped me.) Least I was allowed that chance when Chris was around. Savvy has taken on one awfully hard job, and it must be hard to go home with a crowd bitching at you. My tuppence is that things are gradualy returning to 'normal. Hopefully this knee bended grovelling will save me from the next vsit to the naughty strep '

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#38

Re: One More Bites the Dust

05/26/2010 12:57 PM

O.K. Here's a slight twist on all of this.

I've spent the better part of my career (38 years and counting) "fixing" things; mostly electronic.

CR4 forum threads are quite often about problems that need "fixing". I have remarked to my wife over the last few years that I'm pretty tired of "fixing". Because of the information age, we all now become aware of the problems that exist in our world that need "fixing". The majority of these problems involve people suffering in one way or another. And it is overwhelming for anyone who cares. Sure, I know I can't fix all the problems in the world, but the stress of wanting to is still there. If it's your nature it's hard to turn if off.

From my perspective the "systems", like government, business, financial, and health care, just to name a few seem all out of whack to me. From an engineering perspective they ALL could stand a redesign. Steve S. obviously cares in a similar way. Stress has a direct bearing on one's health.

The feeling of futility that comes up in discussions where large problems are presented to be solved is stressful. I wish I knew how to not care; to turn my feelings of frustration with the way things are off... but I am not built that way. I do let go to a point. I rarely watch any daily TV news and only occasionally hear news on the radio.

There was obviously a "straw that broke the camel's back" for Steve S. But I suspect the root of it is what I have described. It's systemic to many humans. Sadly, there are many who could care less about anybody's suffering except their own.

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#39
In reply to #38

Re: One More Bites the Dust

05/26/2010 1:25 PM

I had started a thread a couple of years ago pondering whether or not it is possible to use some of the skills to do things a bit better

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/14144/Can-We-Design-A-Better-Government

this thread got shut down recently, for violating the prohibition against political conversation

funny how it took 2+ years for this to be a problem

Funny how a series of threads that was started by a moderator that was both political & religious was allowed to remain open

http://cr4.globalspec.com/blogentry/12355/Foods-Not-Suitable-for-Vegetarian-Consumption-Part-1

there has been a change in the administration of the site, one need only look at the daily digest to see the difference in subject matter, that is being featured

CR4 is just a very minor part of the GS operation, a non revenue producing operation, we all know what position such operations take in a modern corporations. the forum just rounds out the package, a bit of filler at the bottom of the newsletters

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#40
In reply to #39

Re: One More Bites the Dust

05/26/2010 2:09 PM

I would agree that there should be consistency regarding subject matter. It this is really a community, then let people talk about whatever they want to talk about. Truth of the matter is, even engineers like discussing subjects outside of their field. Why not try to apply an engineer's thinking to improve other areas of life besides hardcore mechanical problems? Most threads that evolve (no slight intended) to include political and religious perspectives usually are self-limiting. People realize after a few back-and-forth interchanges, that each person has their own view and is unlikely to change because of other posts. (So maybe it's a matter of saving server space.)

I think it's silly to act like this part of being human can be "eliminated" from our interactions with one another. For instance, I think it's absurd to talk about separation of church and state in any meaningful way. How does any person lose the part of himself that is his "worldview"?? One's worldview determines one's behavior and also how one "looks" for solutions to problems.

I say, allow any discussion to take place BUT shut it down if it becomes less than civil. Geez, people get marks for GA... why not also let other posters give a BA for "Bad Attitude". Then, like in basketball, once you've collected a certain number of these demerits, your suspended for X amount of time. Get enough of them and you get kicked of the forums. Of course, this is hard to accomplish with Guests (such as my post). So to truly have these kinds of discussions might mean losing the ability to post as a Guest.

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#41
In reply to #40

Re: One More Bites the Dust

05/26/2010 2:47 PM

No problem using my thread as an example, Bwire's got one going on global warming, which turned out to be a exercise in cheerleading, there's not as much to say when you're preaching to the choir

it is interesting when there is actually a discussion, not a shouting match...

the problem with ba would be who is going to make the decision the community or the admin

the Ba's should be visible & only apply to the discussion or section

everyone has their hot button issues

any second one of OBO [our benign overloards] will probably show up & tell me I can leave if I don't like it round here

of course I do like it around here, but I'm not happy when the fun gets squashed out willy nilly with out so much as a how de do or being told

don't you worry about it

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#42

Re: One More Bites the Dust

05/26/2010 11:28 PM

Gonna Miss You and your thoughtful perspective. Milo

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