Has Anyone Entered a Suggestion to Deepwater Horizon

I don't know if anything is that sinister, but I do think that BP has muffed its PR enormously badly. This will invite the circling of sharks, vultures, and the like.

Their "live video feed" has been stone dead every time I've tried to look.

No one has responded to various ideas that have come forth. Many have been crazy, to be sure, but there have been some promising, or at least plausible, entries among the lot.

No reasonably authoritative data about pipe sizes, pressures at various points, gas/liquid proportions of the emerging stream, etc., have been presented, nor any decent assumptions with preliminary calculations. Flow estimates have been challenged, but not necessarily on any better grounds. Classic cluster-cluck.

No doubt there is a multitude of great folks fighting the good fight. But the scene seems to be ruled by suits, shysters, and politicoes--sphincters all.

If you will go to www.msnbc.com Video Player they have Live BP sawing blunder. I have this up and running, Now!

What a dud!

You speak of "Live BP sawing blunder"; the link is titled "BP tries giant shears to cut leaking pipe." The start/stop action of the video is mostly stop action.

Maybe they should have started cutting on the tension side of the bent riser, rather than on the compression side, which would bind the saw in short order. I can't tell if this is what actually happened, but I am flabbergasted by the sheer uncogency of the reports and some of the ideas so far.

How can anyone think that such representations are satisfactory?

100% right, only they had ample space to install it 180 degrees reversed. The bent riser was very close against the top of the BOP. Everyone who ever cut a pipe should have that knowledge. Did anyone see if there is a pipe into the BOP now, or is the cap just sitting on top of the cut, until the pressure lifts it off as they close the vents?

Yeah, I don't totally know what has gone on here, and I'm not sure that any outsiders (or for that matter insiders) know either.

The sorts of tactics BP has tried seem to waffle between plugging the well vs. tapping it. This is admittedly a tough and changing decision. I have pitched my ideas, whatever they may or may not be worth, toward preserving the production of the well. Because of this, I have shied away from the explosive and "junk shot" strategies.

My understandings are no doubt weak, but I gather that the first dome/cofferdam would allow expansion of the plume, leading to cooling and methane hydrate crystalization. To my thinking, a close-fitting cap with topside riser would fare better, but it would most likely depend on a clean cut of the riser not far above the BOP. That objective seems not to have been achieved, at least yet.

Early on in the thread talk concerning the Deepwater Horizon our friend AH, (Anonymous Hero) recommended leaving the work to the "experts".

There is psychology and sociology involved.

There is the culture and mission of an oil company, as opposed to the mission of a government.

I am reminded of a tenet of the US federal government that mandates Civilian control of the Army, the Armed Forces. The mission of the armed forces is not to make money, but to defend the nation.

It is not surprising that a group, an institution, or a company will have a mission that is different from that of a nation. As a nation, the US Federal Government has really only one mission, and ought to be able to order a Company, or Corporation to accomplish the primary mission dictated by the offense to the people- all of the people.

The offense to the people that the US government legitimately has legal responsibility to defend us against is our lands, and our people, being poisoned.

The Oil Company has naturally as its primary mission, getting oil, and selling it. In my judgement the great poisoning occurs because the Corporate mission overrode, and confused the primary mission, and the order of operations was confused.

I ask myself what I would be doing and ordering where I the Commander General of the Coast Guard? If there is anyone who is properly charged with a greater rank, than the CEO, Boards, Stockholders of a company like BP, in this situation, as a day to day matter, it is the US Coast Guard.

Now the situation continues in confusion, for some oil is being captured, but still the Gulf continues to be poisoned.

For this reason I continue to argue for the primary mission, which is to stop the poisoning of our water and shores.

The reliance on robots and surgical technical attempts at stopping the poisoning of national and international assets, at the top of the toolbox has been, and will continue to be a significant hobble.

When should the Coast Guard have taken over from BP and forced the accomplishment of the one clear and present danger. That danger is the poison that oil is uncontained.

Some of what we have witnessed, and are witnessing, is nothing but a horror show. I've read the news reports and over and over sensed that it was all a show of going on doing things as window dressing for the ultimate plan, the vaulted "relief well".

I pay attention to discussions of money, and cynically see that BP is reported to be able to pay for it, and stay solvent, and keep paying dividends.

I'm for crushing BP more and more everyday, and against them being allowed to operate at all normally as long as poison from their well is spewing in any amount.

I think this position is what leadership to take, to force focus on the primary mission.

This is viewed among some of you as a "lilly livered liberal point of view", I imagine.

Last night I was reading about the Normandy invasion and noted the engineering involved. I noted the use of ships and steel, and the invention of an anchor.

The containment dome was too small. It was not big and heavy enough. A huge ship with its top cut off and turned over the leak would have been better.

I'd be having that done still now in case.

Was it beyond the capabilities of the robots to cut lower flute holes into the pipe, and put restraining mechanisms above the cuts, so that closing materials went in to clog the artery? It is odd how some people work against gravity, or pressure in this case.

What causes this stupidity is typically an aspect of human nature connected to the feeling of an acknowledgment of ownership. There is the One Owner. They become empowered because they "Own" the machine. This ownership of the machine gives them pride, and when they are in trouble they panic, then demand help, then reject all but the stupid help that illustrates why they got in dire straits in the first place.

I hate working will people like that.

(To make a long story short, I was once involved in positioning a 1000 amp Generator that the owner driver had gotten stuck in the woods, and he wanted four guys to push it uphill. He refused to actually work with us, or with gravity, and I actually hated him for that.)

At anyrate, early on I said just drop heavy weights on this hole of steel, or concrete balls till it is crushed shut.

Sure enough during the Normandy invasion ships were sunk on purpose to make bridgewaters, so it is really not out of the question to use deadweight in water situations.

The Transcendian point of view is that we are in a war with the environment, and it is the only legitimate war to share. Assaults on the environment are to be very seriously and powerfully fought with every tool invented, or needed to be invented.

Don't do that, and there is soon to be nothing to fight over anyway.

P.S. I also liked the idea of melting the BOP into a lump using electricity as an arc short. It would take a better electrician than me to do that, though I'd appreciate suggestions for that tack. At this point with all the metal down there, it might be quicker than making a pyramid of weights on the poison spew.

Lets face the facts- how many of us have known some socalled "experts" ? be aware that they have those in STUPID and Incompetent also.

It is a fact that BP has only one primary goal-get that OIL to the processors to get those bucks. The cleanup is not of any real importance- they know its got to be done, but will pass it on to volunteers.

new live feed.

http://www.livestream.com/wkrg_oil_spill

lots of entries

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/55343/Solution-to-Oil-Leak

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/55266/How-to-Stop-Oil-Spill-in-Deep-Water

and about 3 others

http://www.horizonedocs.com/artform.php

suggestions to stop oil leak, Taken from posting by Yuval on http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/55243?frmtrk=cr4sd#comment574175

post suggestions here.

http://www.horizonedocs.com/artform.php

taken from another thread

Any will waste time going to "horizonedocs" and entering a suggestion..

This a cruel joke they are playing on the public.

They have over 8,000 suggestions. What fool would ever believe that many or half or less could possibly be a solution to seal off the leak. It is not possible to have much more than half dozen ways to stop the flow.. Right? Right!

That is true, and it will impose a burden on whatever BP minion is weighing all the ideas that emerge. Even so, they should dedicate a good generalist to this effort, because some promising ideas might come forth from outsiders. Better communication would also help their PR, which really needs it (both to be open to good ideas and to show how bad ideas won't help). (If they can tell the difference--and explain it.)

what they should be doing is having 6-12 engineers going over the sugestion, acting like a brainstorming session where a ridiculas idea can trigger a brilliant solution.

Thanks Pete

You are saving me a lot of searching Mate.

Time is not on any ones side, Ky.

http://www.mioboo.com/1497/bp-oil-spill-live-feed-update-bp-turned-to-lmrp-method-and-james-cameron-to-clean-oil-spill/

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=live+feed+of+oil+spill&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-gb:IE-SearchBox&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7DKUK_en-GB&redir_esc=&ei=0j4HTLzKJqT40wTxre1d

I have. I suggested it would be possible to quickly design build and deploy a quick and dirty hydraulic operated plug press that would use the base of the bolt flange atop the BOP to press against. Now that the riser has been cut/haggled a piloted tapered plug could be pressed into the top of the fore mentioned bolt flange. The plug would both reshape the opening and seal the well with the plug final OD slightly larger that ID of the bolt flange and riser. The plug press would be slung from a ship and maneuvered into place by an ROV. The hydraulic ram/rams could be operated remotely and once the plug has stopped the flow an ROV could engage a locking feature so hydraulic pressure could be removed.

GM

This concept could work. To add a bit of detail, make the tapered plug as long (gentle taper to small diameter) as can fit into the remaining riser stub. As you start to insert it, the oil flow will divert around the plug without much pressure at first. Once the nose of the plug is started into the riser stub, it will be self-guiding, and can be pulled in slowly by hydraulic cylinders, to avoid rapid deceleration of the escaping oil column. The geometry might even lend itself to reopening later into a full riser to the surface.

In other words, first stop the flow. Then get set up to reestablish it.

(This is an adaptation of various types of already known "hot tap" techniques.)

Tornado,

Thank you for your reply.

Speaking of "hot tap", the press could be designed with a hollow plug that has a valve and riser fitting. After the locking feature is engaged the ram could be removed all together to gain access to the fitting. Seems to me that a device like this should already be used in the industry. I am going to research hot tapping techniques maybe there is some tooling around that may be useful.

Thanks again,

GM

May be I have a problem with the speed of my internet but I could not see the live attempt of BP showing how they tried to sever the raiser.

However, I saw the other day on BBC when they showed a computer generated image of the first proposed cut of the horizontal part with a shear-cutter then followed by using a wire cutter to sever the pipe below the bend starting on the compression side.

That's absolutely inane to start like that and naturally the cutter's got jammed.

Despite they freed the cutter since it apears those ROVs' operators ain't adequately trained themselves.

As far as I can gather the ROV operators only know how to handle those tools but, like many fools in workshops, do not know how to use their tools properly and seems those ROV operators are no different.

In such situation they should consult with one another a lot better.

After all in every job ads they always stress.....'and you must be an active team player to apply for the job.'

I recieved a nice answer back in an hour. They are looking at my sugestion. I think they are really trying to find an answer is what my take was.

I having been looking at many different posts, and it seems to me that everyone wants the same thing. They want to stop the leak. I also see a LOT of bickering , and unproductive criticism. Let's figure this out, we can be critical after our Idea's stop the leak. Hang up the capes, let's get to work...together.

To make an invention you need not be an Engineer at all. Now coming to the oil spillage solution, if you are confident that the technology works, confirm by working proof. If you foresee the commercial exploitation potential at least go for a provisional patent. On assumption that you have finalized your technology, better go for your country patent application as well as PCT. Open publications will spoil the novelty criteria and hinder the patenting eligibility process

Be patient enough to go for a patent.

I suggested using an inflatable plug such as http://www.pipeplug.com/inflatable_plugs.html among several other ideas and have y et to receive any response. I know at these depths the pressure would pretty much preclude using gas as inflation media but why not hydraulic fluid or even seawater. push the end of the plug in with a long shaft, inflate it to a very high pressure, then backfill with concrete. I have even called, written, emailed, and faxed everyone I can think of. I called the Governors office in Louisiana and they directed me to BP. What a circus! BP is the ultimate point man for this and government officials are not interested in an answer, lets just let the oil keep going into our waters.

You know this is the smartest suggestion anyone could come up with as long as there's such a thing available.

And I see on the link you've provided, it shows quite a good range of inflatables plugs to choose from. And I'm sure even some of the manufacturers could be consulted for further help.

What if they wanna shut it off so that they could continue milking (tapping) the damn thing in order to help BP to compensate for most of its financial losses from this well alone. This is purely a theory but it is only to show how much good will could be in their efforts.

While I cannot see how much length they have managed to save from the riser pipe after cutting it, but if it is a foot then should even be able to clamp some valve on it on the out side with some rubber seal and then obviously seal the whole damn lot with concrete.

They make these inflatable plugs with bypass as well, they could likely still siphon off oil if they used one with a big enough bypass. I wonder if BP doesnt have ulterior motives in that they want to capture the oil, not stop it- they dont care about our coastlines or environment, only lining their pockets. That and their engineers might have big ego and dont want to hear from us little folks.

I heard that after their "Kill Stop" effort that the "mud" damage the pipe so badly that any further attempt to plug it could cause the pipe to rupture further down causing the leak to come-up through fissures in the ocean floor. I guess that's why they are turning back to a cap and collection attempt.

Soon after I left my last comment today, I came across a link that showed the following below:

"Despite BP's growing desperation to stop the flow of oil from the undersea well, it has reportedly turned down an offer of help from Titanic and Avatar film director James Cameron."

It is just to show the effort is not that genuine and firmly believe that BP will never be tried and anything they do against it in future will only be on paper. Meaning they could even change its name but everything else will remain as it is.

From now on I do not believe in anything other than the oil business is a dirty business and it is just keep getting dirtier.

If the saying "one for all and all for one" has ever had a meaning then now is the time, mark me!

This whole thing stinks not only on the surface of it but all the way to the bottom.

Any with an ounce of sense knows when we the people let politicians commit Fraud- take Lobby bucks and when we find they did so, then they should e FIRED the same as in the public sector. We have let it go on for years and sit on our duff -voting for the next crook to make us regret it for several years.

We need to change the way they do business.. When it comes to next voting time it will prove one thing after the Oil Blunder-cutting corners with the help of most any crooked politician wanting to pad pockets. We have no one to blame for this grand snafu but ourselves- because we the people let them lie to us and we are stupid enough to vote them in. Its time to go on VOTE STRIKES..

If you are confident that your invention is novel, I suggest you file a provisional patent application ASAP. If oil companies use your invention they may decide not to pay you. If that happens, it may be very expensive to enforce your patent with no guarantee that you will prevail. On the other hand, if you don't play the game, you have no chance of winning. My suggestion is that after your patent application is filed, inform the media of your invention and enlist their power to help document your claims.

Why did they not slowly crimp the pipe over a couple of hours or over a day?

If you suddenly block something like that you would get the hydraulic ram effect and blow everything to pieces but if you slowly "turn it off" the oil flow would gradually reduce to zero. Or is that just too simplistic?

"Or is that just too simplistic?"

You could ask that again because from now on I am not even sure if they gave their real expertise shot to try to shot off the BOV by trying to turn it back and forth a few times. It could be that it is partially jammed by chipped rock debris pushed up with the oil.

I hardly believe that there's a common sense in this any more and the president is only doing what he is supposed to do, to show that.......my f***g arse. His effort is no different than the 911 commission's effort to find out the truth; a big fat lie that is.

Maybe they are to initiate the Apocalypse and let the 'few lucky ones' with the biggest wealth to succeed. It only requires a few well trained scums to set off a few chains of events.

"I am a poet warrior, and if you administrators on this site, on this forum can't handle this post, then you are robotic children undeserving of the completed mind. I've been around much more than you, in more ways than one."

First of all, I would give you as many a GA the system would let me and I sincerely fell in love with your above statement also.

Indeed, to hell with political correctness and those who for it. This is only to show how little consideration people have not just for one another but worse even for the planet that keeps us alive as well as it can until we start to f****it up.

There should be no compromise on this subject and I utterly detest anyone who rather stand for political correctness than stand up to protect nature.

As one 'Guest' recently pointed it out at another forum, 'despite we live in the freedom of speech society often political correctness prevents us from being able to tell the truth or facts'.

The following is a cut and paste which is a brief compilation of one of my very own experiences at work occurred to me a year earlier before I've finally got booted out from my job, on the grounds of Grosmisconduct, due to two more similar incidents described below.

"As a QA engineer in July, 2006, I had repaired a brand new Fire-Alarm for BP that was to be used on their North-Sea oil rig. The Fire-Alarm had just been installed when BP engineers detected it had a 'Ground-short' and was promptly returned to us for repair.
The alarm manufacturer's management became so worried they immediately called for a workshop floor meeting and told their production staff off, interestingly enough in the wrong department too.(I must point out the manufacturer's management was, and still is, a bunch of incompetent oldies. Had the final test not been skipped the Fire-Alarm never would have left the factory with a fault like that.)
As the management explained to their production staff, if the alarm had caused an explosion on Bps oil-rig due to an electrical fault caused by their fire-alarm, they would have been up against to pay a full compensation to BP at their own expense. They claimed their insurance policy would not have covered such incident caused by their faulty product.
I wonder why BP is considering now to shun the Gulf of Mexico spill (gush) liability?
It seems obvious, BP is vehemently trying to protect its financial interests above everything else. As no insurer would pay for damages on such scale, especially as I understand BP did not even have deep-sea mining license, did it?
I believe sooner or later BP will argue that they are responsible at all saying, they're creating jobs and serving communities by producing gas & oil for them.
So, it'll be the consumer to blame not BP and it will be the community that has to pick up the bits and pieces."

I tried to submit this in a independent newspaper website comment section after I read their article about the spill and how BP tried to avoid their financial responsibility for the clean up, but to no avail.

The rantings of a self-important fool.

Would you clarify that! It appears a little confusing.

A heckler here. Take the stage heckler guest. Tell us all about what a fool I am for my positions on this subject.

As a personal note, it is my desire to be more important than famous since one can be famously a fool. Certainly one can make a great deal of money if they are willing to make a fool of themselves, and I am not above that.

In fact the Transcendian National Holiday is April Fools. I am guilty of a lack of low self esteem. I do think I am just as important as anybody else.

I expect any moment that the moderators will yank, and delete my post as written, for I did use the perfect words used in real working life in a real world to describe the situation.

What you got heckler guest? I yield the floor.

Don't worry about the gutless p***k! I guess that's why the other guest asked him to clarify himself but he hasn't so far, has he?

Should they delete your comment here I will get off this whole site myself. I have been trying to ask a few and far between questions and I never remember receiving any proper answers.

However, I had the assumption since we live under the freedom of speech act we can also vent our thought without pejudice........

Does any one know about this? pros, cons?

Video

This is interesting and may offer promise. I was curious as to how to ramp up the microbe population to several quintilliion or sextillion in a short time. My audio is dead at the moment, so I couldn't tell whether this video has already addressed the question.

Presumably oil would be a nutrient to these microbes, and would help in their reproduction. But then, when they "eat" all the oil, do they just die off? What then happens to the total mass of the oil, the microbes, and their metabolic byproducts?

I have heard of the concept before, with the waggish question: "After they "eat" all the spilled oil, what if they get into everybody's fuel tanks, "eat" all of that oil too, and deepen the energy crisis? (That's more amusing than credible, I think.)

This link would help to further show just how to give a helping hand to mother nature to recover from the damaging effect of the oil-spill in the Gulf of Mexico, providing there's still a little good will had left in the current employees of the White-House, instead of profiling themselves as they like to do on trivial issues.

Forcing the high pressure leak to pass through a cone shaped pipe with multiple orifices on the upper end and a further sudden decompression would result according to Bernoulli´s principle in micro and nanosized droplets emulsion that is far less harmful.

Not many people will understand what you mean but I think I know enough to partly dispute what you are presenting.

I understand, it is only a model, but in practice the ambient pressure will have the last say. Under the given pressure no droplets can be formed. Gasses, or better the bubbles they create when coming out of solution (sudden decompression), happen at much lower pressures differentials. Reverse cavitation one could call it, at least I do.

No experiment harnessing or demonstrating this is going to be in the realm of far less harmful, as you put it. We are still talking about the oil spill now, aren't we?

Would you agree, that under such pressures and velocities, cavitation assisting multiple orifices would not last for very long?

Due to your style of grammar I have maybe misunderstood, so please verify if you get to it. I just read through it again and it is hopeless and not very helpful.

Hope all goes well, Ky.

I don't know where you live, but in the US, it is the first to invent, not the first to file that gets dibs on any invention. If you are submitting something that you truly feel is unique, jot everything down in a journal, ( not loose leaf), one of those composition books is ideal. Include diagrams, etc. and have it witnessed and possibly even notarized. If you have the proof that you were the first to invent this particular product, then you have the right to sue anyone that tries to capitalize on it, and you will probably win. Although, if I personally thought I had a viable answer to stopping the leak, I would feel compelled to give it to them, do the above quickly first and worry later about patents. Hell, just get your friends to be witnesses to your idea, if it works, you might get your face on a box of Wheeties.

I know a few guys who submitted their ideas.

They all filled out a form and sent it back.

THE MESSAGE IS, don't call anymore, WE WILL CONTACT YOU (not?)

They will get what they are playing with.

Don't forget that they are challenging the same scenario that blew up the horizon: no BOP and a straight connection to disaster.

They try to play it safe now by monitoring the composition of the feed.

Far better solutions have just been ignored.

I hope they succeed and can show something more hopeful.

Now the coast guard initiated a system through fedbiz where you submit ideas in the form of white papers. When I go to the site to submit it doesnt exist. How is that for eliminating good ideas, Here you go people, send your idea here and we will evaluate them--ha, no such luck the site isnt even there. in the meantime more oil is still leaking.

That's why we fight it out here. We know that the moderators are looking for dirty words, and therefore they at least are forced to read the rantings of engineers, or rantguys.

Maybe Hooker knows a few ramp rats.

We ramp rats can get anything moving. Today I could get in a Learjet and know at ten when to dump in some fuel, and light it up.

In a strange plane, I might actually look for the manual.

In every case I do like a check list.

Oh how I love street directories, more than I love pretty maps. Maps to me are useless if you want to get there fast without spending time better used getting there.

Yeah, I've been a taxi driver, crazy crying, and so fast you'll never forget my ride.

Yeah old lady, paying the standard fare, well, I've not got time to consider your health.

Thanks for not dying.

20 bucks to run the next red light pal!

Drive like a cop in a hurry for every 10 and 20 with some guy with cash and an war to win. I really have been mercenary and uncaring.

Sorry is for later.

Submit ideas! Do your duty and submit ideas! Do it like you are told to. Fill out the form correctly. Become a loyal employee!

BP will continue to pay dividends! UK retires depend on BP!

Eventually a man will come forward and say poisoning us is not acceptable. He will not be pleasant about it, and will stop the BS [CR4 Admin - edited out profanity] by pointing a finger and saying that heads will roll if the job, the real job, is not done.

Stalin was not a very nice guy. I hate him and Hitler too, but war management is another thing.

Stalin and Grant understood that stuff and it is a nice beg off for civilians to give orders.

In this case I am without patience and would be fine with BP to be no more a bother.

BP has failed, and does not deserve another day of indulgence.

The answer to this nightmare is likely to come from either an oil rig worker or a non-Engineer with no association whatsoever with the industry. As an Engineer, I am many times dismayed at the "blinders on" way we deal with problems. This is why Engineers seldom invent anything new. The new ideas come from others, who are not impeded by the constraints of the laws of physics. Keep up the good work and attitude about helping.

WJMFIRE

Thanks for keeping the amateur spirits up. The worst thing is, that one has Eff all to go by. That is like asking a musician to write a piece in minor and not naming a lead tone or an instrument. Just improvise and see what happens! Only the virtuoso will come to reason that a major scale will just do fine to entertain and not hurt the other wise well educated audience. They don't know about details of the imponderable accidental starting point. Rules can be bent but to introduce the skill of jazz into engineering seems to be what was and is happening here.

See the result "they" have now:

They partly closed the leak and only a 20% to 60% of the oil is still spilling uncontrolled. That is the latest information I have. Not that a discrepancy of 40% worries me. Its just what I hear, you see?

This raises a few questions which only an amateur could ask, stupid me:

1. What was the flow? (Can't Be Measured, I Know). Now that would be really important to know. Not a good guess! Just a sort of reliable figure, so the response of the clean up can be organized. That's just the visible stuff that the defenders of their country are up against.

2. What is the flow now? (C.B.M.I.K)

3. Will not the areas were the oil leaves the pipe be prone to the forces of cavitation and render the gadgetry useless after a short time. (C.B.M.I.K)

4. If the flow rates were never properly established (or made public) what do the 20% to 60% relate to? (C.B M.I.K).

5. If all these problems are too much for one "conductor" to handle (Yes Mr President, Sir, with all due respect, Sir, they have you by the b*lls). The off shore oil rig industry needs to look for a bandleader with enough knowledge of every thing and then start up a new band. In the mean time all risky, similar shows have to be canceled. (C.B.M.I.K). That's what I expect a President to do, who promised a new sound and freshly tuned instruments. (Sorry admin........ ......... )

6. what does partly closed translate to in inches or mm? (C.B.M.I.K)

Teasing us with badly tuned instrumentation and taking our livelihoods from us at the same time is a bit rich. If you can't handle the scenario get off the stage (deep sea drilling) and only come back when your tools are tuned. Profits only to those who perform and not overestimate their abilities and that of their tools.

How can this be allowed to go on? Nobody can suggest to listen to the good old tunes because only this "greed music" is played. Yep, on all stations and every one is participating, including myself, in this crescendo of, of, of incompetence, that's the word.

Boooooo, Boooooo, Ky.

PS: I have submitted my proposal. As I see, I hear nothing.

"Can't Be Measured, I Know"

There's a forum "Cap Said to Recover 10,000 Barrels of Oil a Day" if that's a fraction of the spill then what can be the total spill per day?

Weeks ago an independent study claimed it could be up to 16,000m3 per day based on the size of the riser and some few unconfirmed data.

Some hidden plumes are 15km long and as wide and deep as they can be.

A weather forecaster on CNN mentioned once the gulf current swings into action it'll be just a few days and the spill gets around Florida and upstream along the east coast.

This is what a reply looks like.

Dear ,Thank you so much for taking the time to think about and submit your proposed solution regarding the Horizon incident. Your submission has been reviewed for its technical merits. A similar approach has already been considered or planned for possible implementation. All of us on the Horizon Support Team appreciate your thoughts and efforts. Sincerely yours,

Horizon Support Team

Note the "Horizon incident". I thought an incident was more like a prang in the car park. What a soft word for such a complete and utter failure.

Hope all goes well's way, Ky.

A form reply exhibiting no comprehension at all. But then they're busy not solving their problem very well.

In some respects, I would prefer to sympathize with BP's difficulties. But their inept PR (lack of useful data) puts them into a downward spiral with the likes of Edward Markey and other bloviating poseurs and crackpots.

Is the reason they are drilling at that depth that they are in fact in International waters? Deport those fools! Sorry for the tangent, but if your not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Is there a leader in the house? Get someone down there with some decisiveness and direction. Enough of the excuses and empty promises. It's not a spade it's a shovel...Enough of these fools! My grand father is rolling in his grave!

We can all understand your feelings and feel with you, but this is a wrong approach. Try to understand the situation and how it came that far.

Very good contributions are here in different forum posts.

I found the latest of 34point5 and Ky very enlightening.

It is very easy to use events as sensation gossip. Open your eyes: People who have been following this catastrophe start to understand more.

The news is far from honest too and very polarized, just for the polls.

About the oil output: now they show the oil flow with the cut riser. Of course you have more oil coming out.

In former posts I mentioned times 2 or 3. But don't forget this is a dynamic well: first a bent riser with the drill pipe in it. Plenty restrictions for the flow.

After the cut these were removed, maybe the drill and drill pipe fell into the reservoir too.

A totally different situation.

There is a dangerous annulus, the casings are probably inefficient, pipes will be damaged or discontinued.

Not a scenario that has been asked for.

We all point the finger at BP, but the future will show where the real mistake has been made.

If not BP, but another company had the same situation, it should have been a lot worse. Curing this kind of disasters take and BP is still the best card to play. They are committed in the first place. Everyone is pushing them.

As far a I understand, everybody can use some positive motivation too, even BP in this difficult times.

And now everyone sees now that counter measures were not in place. Nowhere, also

Legislation was decades behind, everyone gets a kick to change everything now.

Sounds like a not much hope giving situation for investors too. This kind of situations are more common in banana republics one would think.

Sadness and Anger are known to be very bad companions.

Yeah... I /we know all that, but 1)The president hasn't spoke to the "man in charge". 2)Why aren't the other oil companies down there trying to learn "from the most informed" 3)Why aren't the the other oil companies, the goverment,scientist,military,..everyone putting their heads together on this? 4)If this has enlightened us to the preparedness of a duplicate reaction on the many other rigs why are they not shutting down,what are they doing to prevent this, and why are they not sharing information? 5) isn't engineering also the calculated manipulation or direction? 6) By the way, who is in charge? No more excuses, we're being assaulted! Sit up right, quit slurping your soup! We have already proven that the Horizon site will send the same response no matter what widget you give them. You can't teach a monkey calculus (disclaimer:I don't really know if this is true)! Please refer back to #5

I still like my bladder and dry nitrogen Idea I posted as a Guest previously...

Where has you have you been?

The White House has been getting reports from day one from the "man-in-charge" both BP and the coast guard, EPA, ACOE, USFWS, etc...

There are reports out there that show most of the other American oil producers have "experts involved.

All sites are shut down, no more new sites until they get the OK at least in our waters and US companies.

I has you been right here! Sorry though, I don't have a TV. It seems to be kin to chaos as far as I can tell. Isn't Deep water supposed to be two words? Back to topic. Is there a reason they don't use a pilot actuated check valve with expansion relief on these wells? Oil looses pressure when it isn't contained, pilot would be lost and the check would seat. If oil is nearly incompressible, would it not take half the pressure of an inert gas to pressurize the pipe with a piston the size of the casing separating the two? Is anyone familiar with the bond welds used by railroads to weld copper cables to the rail for signals? Could a weld ring similar to a brazing ring be fashioned with this to get a sleeve and collar in the pipe to reinforce/connect to it? Maybe a tapered collet hydraulically swaged. Only stupid question is one not asked.

I am not a real engineer, but have had some design experience and love to figure things out. I have thought as lot about this and it appears that a high tech solution may not be the fix. At those depths and temperatures, with oil not spilling but forcefully flowing out of the pipe it is going to take a solution that is simple and easy to do with a robot or sub. If the pipe is exposed, it may sound crazy but how about using the oil's own presure to help stop the leak? Have you ever seen a Chinese handcuff. The type kids used to play with. You stick your finger in it and the harder you try to pull it out the tighter it gets. Why not create a woven ploymer version on a much larger scale. with a valve at the top end. Leave the valve open while placing the cuff over the pipe. close the valve and the pressure will tighten the cuff around the pipe. The harder it pushes the tighter the cuff will get. Use the oil's own power to neutralize it? Of course the cuff would have to be held in place while the valve is closed, but a cam ring or clamp of some type at the bottom that could be easily tightened with the robot claw may do the trick.

Yes I have and recieved a form type letter, which I will include here but minus the CAD drawing I submitted to them. and this is what I replied back to them, of course with no reply back from them. It seems that this suggestion thing is only a passifyer to keep the public occupied. If thier engineers were so intellegent then why is thier cap inaffective and the well still leaking, a relief well will not stop this one from still spuing out oil. I sent my idea because I care, but somehow I don't think they really do care.

WHAT I SENT TO THEM ISD AS FOLLOWS:

This was not a very encouraging reply to get people to put forth suggestions toward the problem in the gulf, Couldn't you be more specific, you covered about every field of, you don't want it, I was honest and took the time to make the drawing and come up with an idea, and suggestion. After watching the live cam and staying up the whole night for an eighty year old, so I kept on watching the cam for a solution, the least you could do is be up front and honest, or is some of the things they are saying true about you, or could it be you are trying to solve this all on your own so you will not look so bad. Well anyhow I am going to send my material to Hannity and John Beck and Nuke Gingrich to get their feedback. I just did not like your response to one of the many out there are concerned and are in serious prayer for you and this disaster because we as citizens do care, whether you think so or not. Sincerely Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: horizon.support@oegllc.com To: edscissorhand@msn.com Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2010 12:04 PM Subject: An Important Message from Horizon Support
Dear Edward Overpeck,

Thank you for your submission to the Alternative Response Technology (ART) process for the Deepwater Horizon MC252 incident. Your submission has been reviewed for its technical merits.

It has been determined that your idea falls into one of the following ART categories: Already Considered/Planned, Not Feasible, or Not Possible, and therefore will not be advanced for further evaluation. To date, we have received over 80,000 submissions with each submission receiving individual consideration and priority based on merit and need.

BP and Horizon Deepwater Unified Command appreciate your contribution and interest in responding to this incident.


Thank you very much,
Horizon Response Team