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Why Doesn't a Drinking Straw Refracted in a Glass of Water Change Color?

06/18/2010 12:18 AM

In the simple demonstration of light refraction a drinking straw appears to bend when placed in a glass of water at an angle off the perpendicular. The common explanation is that the speed of light is reduced when entering water from air. ,

A rainbow (or spectrum) is caused by refraction too when the white light on passing through water vapor (or prism) dissociates into the component colors due to the different speeds of the various colors through water.

My question: Why doesn't the straw appear to change color?

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#1

Re: why doesn't a drinking straw refracted in a glass of water change color?

06/18/2010 12:34 AM

The straw is not a prism. Straws are opaque and do not pass/filter light.

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#2

Re: why doesn't a drinking straw refracted in a glass of water change color?

06/18/2010 12:36 AM

Interesting question!

Because in a prism, the sides are flat and able to linearly amplify the visible spectrum range to be able to delineate smaller changes in wavelength. In a glass however, the side is curved. Therefore, it cannot perform the amplification and show the colors. Since this is a two-component (water and glass) medium, there is the refractive distortion. This is the way I understand it but, as I am no optics expert, I may be talking out my a$$.

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#3

Re: why doesn't a drinking straw refracted in a glass of water change color?

06/18/2010 7:39 AM

Because in a glass there is not enough water to filter the any of the colors to make a visable difference to the eye.

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#4

Re: why doesn't a drinking straw refracted in a glass of water change color?

06/18/2010 8:13 AM

Ordinarily room light is entering the glass from all directions, so the wavelengths are scattered and mixed. A rainbow occurs when a strong beam of light from one principle direction is refracted.

Try putting the glass of water and straw in a dark room and shining light onto it from an old slide projector or other bright collimated (broad spectrum) light source. Perhaps then you may see a faint rainbow effect around the edges of the straw. Remember that the straw will be filled with water, so at the water/straw/water interfaces there is not a lot of refraction occurring; the refraction occurs at the top surface of the water at the water/air interface.

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#5

Re: Why Doesn't a Drinking Straw Refracted in a Glass of Water Change Color?

06/18/2010 9:24 AM

If the straw is already colored, say red, there's nothing else to spread out, so it remains red.

If the straw were emitting white light, then that light would spread a small amount (like an off-kilter 3 color comic book) and you'd see a very very tiny dispersion. Put the straw behind the glass and you'll get more. But, it's very tiny, very hard to see.

Remember, cheap camera lenses cause the same effect and, for low magnification or short lenses, are not corrected.

Of course, the other problem is that you usually see the straw near the center of the glass where the effect is less. Turn the straw sideways so that one end is near the side of the glass and you might see more.

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#6

Re: Why Doesn't a Drinking Straw Refracted in a Glass of Water Change Color?

06/18/2010 10:41 AM

Gotta Give corelite a thumbs up for asking such a thought provoking question!

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#7

Re: Why Doesn't a Drinking Straw Refracted in a Glass of Water Change Color?

06/18/2010 12:42 PM

speed of light= wavelength x frequency

Well if the speed of light is reduced then what changes? frequency? or wavelength? or both?

Which still leaves the question in my mind, why does the color not shift? since the distortion in the pencil is a function of a change of the equation?

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Why Doesn't a Drinking Straw Refracted in a Glass of Water Change Color?

06/18/2010 1:38 PM

Wavelength changes. Frequency is a characteristic of the energy of the light source and can't change.

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Why Doesn't a Drinking Straw Refracted in a Glass of Water Change Color?

06/18/2010 2:01 PM

In that case shouldn't there be a color shift ala Doppler?

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#21
In reply to #9

Re: Why Doesn't a Drinking Straw Refracted in a Glass of Water Change Color?

06/19/2010 5:48 PM

Is it moving? Are you moving?

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#23
In reply to #21

Re: Why Doesn't a Drinking Straw Refracted in a Glass of Water Change Color?

06/19/2010 6:51 PM

If wavelength changes it's like what happens in a doppler event.

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#24
In reply to #23

Re: Why Doesn't a Drinking Straw Refracted in a Glass of Water Change Color?

06/19/2010 6:58 PM

You're letting the tail wag the dog.

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#11
In reply to #7

Re: Why Doesn't a Drinking Straw Refracted in a Glass of Water Change Color?

06/18/2010 11:12 PM

Sunlight is almost like a laser beam, highly collimated. Usually one is far away from the mist causing the rainbow. The two facts ensure that there is adequate angular separation between the different colours for us to see the rainbow. The same thing does happen whenever there is a refraction, even in a glass of water. As usbport said, the light beam in a room is scattered light with negligible collimation and one is quite near. Whatever dispersion takes place leads to a jumbled wave front of scattered light of different colours, which we perceive as white light. However, whenever you see light from a point source like a tungsten bulb through a cut glass artifact or a diamond jewel you can see the colours. Every evening I see a rainbow whenever I water the lawn with a spray head and the slanting sun rays come from behind. Bioramani

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#16
In reply to #7

Re: Why Doesn't a Drinking Straw Refracted in a Glass of Water Change Color?

06/19/2010 11:39 AM

Frequency and wave length are just reciprocals, so both change.

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#18
In reply to #16

Re: Why Doesn't a Drinking Straw Refracted in a Glass of Water Change Color?

06/19/2010 2:23 PM

That is only true while the velocity is constant. Since the velocity changes when the medium changes, that statement is no longer valid in this situation.

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#26
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Re: Why Doesn't a Drinking Straw Refracted in a Glass of Water Change Color?

06/19/2010 9:30 PM

I am pretty sure that the frequency of ANY waveform is the reciprocal of the wavelength (which is also called the period of oscillation). They are Fourier transforms of one another. The velocity has nothing to do with that.

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#28
In reply to #26

Re: Why Doesn't a Drinking Straw Refracted in a Glass of Water Change Color?

06/20/2010 1:55 AM

The period is the reciprocal of the frequency. T=1/F (Seconds/wave)=1/(waves per second). The wavelength is a distance, not a time, so it can NOT be the reciprocal of frequency. λ=V/F. (meters)=(meters/second)/(1/second).

No higher math (beyond high school algebra) is needed, but velocity is!

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#32
In reply to #28

Re: Why Doesn't a Drinking Straw Refracted in a Glass of Water Change Color?

06/20/2010 11:25 AM

Oops. I stand corrected. Thanks.

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#10

Re: Why Doesn't a Drinking Straw Refracted in a Glass of Water Change Color?

06/18/2010 2:32 PM

I won't weigh in here on the mechanics, but would suggest that the original poster 1) go buy a prism; and 2) go to the Wiki article about Goethe's color work to understand that maybe the Newtonian mechanism that we were all taught about the prism by our 6th grade science teachers and the pink floyd darkside of the moon album cover isn't exactly so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_Colours_(book)

If the prism so effectually deconstructs white light into its component colors, how then is it possible to actually look through a prism, (in particular think of the pentaprisms in SLR cameras), and see an image, and not rainbows? What conditions are necessary for a prism to so deconstruct light?

Go get a prism! Look through it. Reflect. (Think is a much better choice of words in this case) Prisms do not "ALWAYS" deconstruct the light. Nor does Refraction always involve splitting of colors. What we were taught on this subject, it turns out, is a very special case.

The issue of light deconstruction into constituent 'colors" is a phenomenon associated with edges and boundaries, and the battle over this between Newton and Goethe was the polemic of its day.

http://www.amazon.com/Goethe-contra-Newton-Polemics-Project/dp/0521531322

Enjoy.

Note to OP: GREAT QUESTION! You are thinking about what you observe. Thanks for posting.

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#12
In reply to #10

Re: Why Doesn't a Drinking Straw Refracted in a Glass of Water Change Color?

06/18/2010 11:31 PM

Whoa...! Just read the wiki article, it's gonna take a little mental percolating to wrap my mind around Goethe's thinking!

Interestingly Goethe's not postulating a theory on the fundamental process underlying the perceived phenomena is reminiscent of Newton's answer when asked to explain how gravity works the way it does he answered, "I feign no hypothesis." -- but he was able to quantify gravity's action into a predictable mathematical model.

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#13
In reply to #10

Re: Why Doesn't a Drinking Straw Refracted in a Glass of Water Change Color?

06/19/2010 12:04 AM

That deserves MUCH more than just a GA, but that's all I can give you for now...

To the OP: I suspect that the color DOES change, Just not enough for it to be obvious. I'll have to think some more about this...

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#15
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Re: Why Doesn't a Drinking Straw Refracted in a Glass of Water Change Color?

06/19/2010 9:00 AM

The prisms of optical devices are specially constructed not to disperse different wavelengths. A monolithic prism will disperse coherent light. It is the lack of coherence in general scattered light that prevents perception of dispersion. Bioramani

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#14

Re: Why Doesn't a Drinking Straw Refracted in a Glass of Water Change Color?

06/19/2010 7:51 AM

The separation of colors you refer to is called dispersion. It does occur with all white light, but the straw is so large that the color separation can only be seen at the edges of the straw. If you wish to see the dispersion clearly, you should do what you do with a glass prism to see the colors. Create a dark room and allow a narrow ray of sunlight to shine through the water. The colors will be visible on a sheet of white material.

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#17

Re: Why Doesn't a Drinking Straw Refracted in a Glass of Water Change Color?

06/19/2010 1:09 PM

You are observing the reflection phenomena and noy the refraction.

refraction produces the bending of the light beam in the water but the straw image is a reflection phenomena. you are seeing the image of the straw. There will be, probably, several images of the straw, each with a different colour, reflected, but you would need to magnify the image a lot to experience the refraction of the light arround the straw.

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#19
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Re: Why Doesn't a Drinking Straw Refracted in a Glass of Water Change Color?

06/19/2010 2:27 PM

NO! The image of the portion of the straw below the water is refracted, not reflected. The portion of the straw above the water is directly visible, neither reflected nor refracted.

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#25
In reply to #19

Re: Why Doesn't a Drinking Straw Refracted in a Glass of Water Change Color?

06/19/2010 8:34 PM

Please read carefully before the (NO!).

There is a refraction. The refraction index of the water is different from the Air (which has to do with the different speeds) and the difference between the different frequencies of white light will not be enough to see at the distance being observed. So you only see image of the straw and not the refracted light as in a rainbow... you need more distance (or a magnifier...) Or what the hell waisting time on such a simple thing...

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#20

Re: Why Doesn't a Drinking Straw Refracted in a Glass of Water Change Color?

06/19/2010 4:54 PM

No one so far has it, and simple: Neither the glass nor water exhibits properties as a prism. Enough said.

Optional: google prism

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#22
In reply to #20

Re: Why Doesn't a Drinking Straw Refracted in a Glass of Water Change Color?

06/19/2010 5:52 PM

Not nearly nuff said. A glass does indeed cause dispersion. The speed of the various colors is different and that shows up at the edge as though you had a mis-aligned 3 color press.

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#27
In reply to #20

Re: Why Doesn't a Drinking Straw Refracted in a Glass of Water Change Color?

06/19/2010 9:57 PM

Not quite. Any medium denser than air will refract light passing through. Bioramani

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#29

Re: Why Doesn't a Drinking Straw Refracted in a Glass of Water Change Color?

06/20/2010 2:07 AM

Friends,

Luther M (post 14) and TVP45 (post 22) both have identified the proper effect. Refraction is a term to describe the effect an interface between two media has on a beam of light (electromagnetic radiation). The index of refraction is the ratio of the speed of light in vacuum and the speed of light in the medium in question. When an object or beam of light passes through this interface at an angle, this index of refraction is visible as an apparent bending of the light beam or object at the interface. However, the index of refraction is not totally constant for all frequencies (colors). This variation is called the dispersion and results in the light beam bending a slightly different amount for each frequency. Thus, the rainbow or typical effect of a prism on a narrow beam of light. If the beam of light is wide compared to the viewing distance, the dispersion of the refracted beam from one "slice" of the beam to the next will have different colors overlapping. Thus what you see is a portion of a rainbow (the red-yellow) then a white area almost as wide as the incoming beam then the remainder of the rainbow (green-violet).

A white straw inserted into a glass of water can be considered to be a light source because it is reflecting ambient light back into the room. This light will be refracted when it reaches the interface between the water and the air (the same as a beam of sunlight). So the straw will appear to be bent. If you look closely at the sides/edges of this straw you will see the same dispersion as I described for a wide beam of light: a narrow partial rainbow of red-yellow, then nearly the width of the straw in white, then the rest of the partial rainbow in green-violet. If the straw is quite narrow in comparison to your viewing distance and very brightly illuminated, the dispersion of the refracted light from the straw will be much greater than its visible width, so the overlapped portion that could appear white is incomplete. As the ratio of distance to width gets quite large, all you will see is a rainbow caused by the dispersion of the light as it is refracted at the interface.

For different materials, this dispersion can (will) be different; even in opposite directions. Thus, an "achromatic" lens will have two (or more) different types of glass, chosen so the dispersion of one cancels the dispersion of the other and a beam of light (or the infinite number of beams of light that make up an image) can be refracted and focused without any colored fringes.

The assertion, by some in this thread, that there is reflection is also correct, but not in the manner implied. At an interface where light is traveling into a medium with a higher index of refraction, as the angle of the incoming beam diverges from the vertical, an increasing amount of it reflects off the surface (with equal angles of incidence and reflection). The portion that penetrates (transmits) through the surface gets refracted; as the incident angle increases, this refracted beam gets closer and closer to being parallel with the surface. At that limiting point when the transmitted beam would be parallel to the surface, the percent that is transmitted has fallen to 0, and all is reflected. Thus, you will see a reflection of the straw off the surface of the water glass, when you view it from above. But, you will see no reflection of the underwater portion of the straw when you view it from below (because you are viewing the light where it goes from higher to lower index of refraction). All this should be well-discussed in any good work on optics.

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#30

Re: Why Doesn't a Drinking Straw Refracted in a Glass of Water Change Color?

06/20/2010 7:16 AM

The straw is an object viewed or seen with the help of the refracted light.

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#31

Re: Why Doesn't a Drinking Straw Refracted in a Glass of Water Change Color?

06/20/2010 11:18 AM

This has gone far enough.

Throw the F*^king straw away and drink the da*m water already!

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#33

Re: Why Doesn't a Drinking Straw Refracted in a Glass of Water Change Color?

06/20/2010 1:11 PM

If you had a very slender white straw and a black background, you should see a blue and red border because of the different refractive index of red and blue light. It may be rather subtle.

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#34

Re: Why Doesn't a Drinking Straw Refracted in a Glass of Water Change Color?

06/21/2010 12:20 AM

Light from all directions fall on to the surface of the straw gets reflected and then refracted at the water air interface. Since the light falling on to the straw is not original source but only a reflection from the surroundings and therefore can be considered as small beam of white light from all directions -millions of them reflecting back from the straw surface. If you consider each beam is dispersed in to a spectrum , there will be millions of spectrum each superimpose on the other and the net effect will be only a white light and and not a spectrum. As for the light falling on the edges, there are no material adjacent to it ,resulting in a thin multicolor spectrum.

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