Altitude and Oxygen Scarcity

Makes sense to me. More greenery= more available oxygen in the air.

It is possible the plants make a difference, but it seems a little doubtful to me. Our atmosphere is pretty well-blended wherever there are open spaces and some altitude. Someone correct me if I am mistaken?

You say that "a few years back" you visited Hemkund and had no trouble. Is it perhaps possible that in those few years your body has changed? Your lungs and blood supply not being as young and efficient as they once were?

It happens to us all, friend.

Thanks.

I also doubted what you expressed. But, I do not think so. I visited Hemkund just 3 years back, and still I am regular trekker and tough enough yet (though now 57). You have already seen my photo at altitude of 18400ft, at -6 deg C with no warm clothing. I was there for 1 hour.

Besides, Hemkund is a pilgrimage. Hundreds of people visit the place daily. To visit, you have to walk 6 kms and 4000 ft up. But rarely any body complaints about problem in breathing.

You may be one of the few very special characters. Mankind normally talk about the rule not about exceptions.

The problems are maybe an early indication of an illness emphysema for example.

Or working/living near to someone who smokes and you are suffering from 2nd hand smoke inhalation......

Go get checked up just to make sure.....

(I am assuming that you yourself are not a smoker!)

I am well over 60, and although I rarely go into the high mountains nowadays, 4 years ago, I could drive to 11,500 feet and walk up another 500 - 1,000 feet carrying my fishing gear, no problem at all......Biggest problem was we never caught any fish!!!! But the beer was good!!

A friend who used to smoke pot many years ago had more problems once above 12,000 feet....and he was FAR younger!!

Thanks Andy.

I am not smoker, as well as no body from my group was smoker.

Besides, it is not only my experience. The difference between other regions of Himalaya and the Leh region is felt by every body, who have visited Leh and other regions. Many from my group are regular visitors of many parts of Himalaya. Thats why I am curious.

So am I now!!

Have a great day.

Other more localized temporary environmental factors could be at work, the two i think of are humidity and air temperature both of which effect respiratory efficiency.

Yes, true. But this has very small effect as I feel.

I intentionally put my photo here. I repeat, I was there with no warm cloths at -6 deg C, for an hour. But I was not shivering at all.

Due to severe cold, total ladakh area is very dry. The humidity never goes beyond 40%

...and it stinks!!!!

Sorry, no matter how small the risk, the awful smell is more than enough to put me off......

Thank God finally there are moves to ban smoking in ALL public places, restaurants bars and the like.....Germany is slowly arriving in the 21st Century!!

Vegetation contributes to humidity to its vicinity. I wonder if that's significant in feeling like you're well-oxygenated, if not actually being well-oxygenated.

Do you know why they derate gensets as altitude increases?

Yes, majority of us on CR4 will be knowing this.

This because, the oxygen required for combustion of fuel is less, thus either the mixture will be fuel rich, which will not burn completely due to less oxygen or if set properly, will have less fuel and oxygen per stroke.

Simple.

apply the same principle to human machine. Compare with the climbers to Himalayas carrying oxygen with them

If there's abundant vegetation in Hemkund, and people are walking in direct proximity to the plants, then you are next to a source of oxygen - in my opinion, this could make the difference between being short of oxygen or not. More especially if there are trees (big producers).

True, released oxygen will become diluted into the vast open spaces. Still if you're next to the plants you're there to get a whiff of it right at the source, before it goes on to be diluted...

Thanks

I will try to find and load some photographs from Hemkund by tomorrow.

One more thing about Hemkund.

There is Sikh Gurudwara (temple) at Hemkund. During day time hundreds of pilgrims of all age visit the place. But, no body stays there at night. They say that during night they feel difficulty is breathing.!

As plants "USE" oxygen at night (remembering my Biology from over 50 years ago in school!), the difference might just be the time of day, or how light and dark it is....making enough difference for many people for breathing.

I must say I am surprised that nobody has done some measurements of the ratio of the gases in air, samples taken say over at least a 24 hour period.....

Note.

Plants need light to photosynthesis Oxygen.

I also guess same thing.

If I happen to go there some other time (it is 2500 Kms from my place), I will try to take some measurement instruments with me.

Thanks Andy

Good move. Check up on the web, maybe there is a simple test for oxygen concentraion.....

For example, burning something in a set volume of air, at a set temperature (so that the air is not "thinned or thickened" by the temperature, and see what the drop in pressure is, maybe it could even suck water up a graduated scale to show the difference......

The more oxygen in the air, the less volume that will be left afterwards of air.....

Something like Magnesium, remotely set fire to.......

Thats about as far as I can get with my thinking on that one.......maybe one of the chemists here can propose something better and easier.....

Yes Andy you are right. At night, plant respiration is producing CO2 and consuming oxygen, and of course, no photosynthesis is taking place to do the opposite.

Gsuhas, that bit of information really does suggest the plants make all the difference at this site.

Flowers around Hemkundsahib

Hemkund sahib .. Altitude 14000ft. You can see small bushy vegitation on the slopes. Also you can see border of snow abound the lake

Pilgrim Hemkund Sahib: Visitors do take religious bath in this ice cold lake

Vegitation about the height of 13000ft on the slopes of Hemkund. Famous "Valley of Flowers is just 6 kms away from this place.

Air has weight. It has nothing to do with having vegitation to create oxygen. At 18000 ft, the air is approximately half the density it is at sea level. If vegitation could create oxygen at high altitudes and grew on Mt Everest, there would be no death zone on Mt Everest (altitudes above 26000 ft). However, the death zone on this moutain is a fact based on the weight of the atmosphere above this point.

1. Vegetation will not grow at that altitude due to unbearable atmosphere.

2. Do you know, Reinhold Messner, mountaineer from Italy summited mount everest (and all other 8000m + summits... total 14 nos) without oxygen!. There is no death zone (till the height of mount Everest) as such, everything depends upon individual. Yes, no doubt, with height air becomes thinner and thinner.

A little off topic, but interesting. I read recently that 600 square feet of vegetation will produce approx. enough oxygen to supply one human for one day.

......BUT WHAT ABOUT THE NIGHTS?

The plants are sleeping, so the human suffocates.

YUP!!!

But its not just sleeping!

They actually use oxygen and exude fart CO2 at night!!

What a way to go?