Do you mean "self-aware" as in able to understand why your hand doesn't work?

Or, hurt because you didn't recognize that you are left handed, until pointed out by a right handed person?

I've owned some equipment and a couple of cars that were self aware.

The equipment would work absolutely fine until I needed them for a really important job.

The cars would let me down the same way, especially if I was trying to sell them...

Same can't be said for apprentices though, most of them wouldn't know if they were breathing or if their A*ses were on fire...

One.

Yes, but not for a while yet.

There are still some humans who are not yet self-aware, so it will be a very long time (if ever) before machines can become self-aware.

Defining a Computer as a machine and defining "self aware" as the ability to learn and use that knowledge, your question is already answered.

If the definitions are not valid, then you will have to wait for more enlightening answers.

This message has been sent by kvsridhar's computer. He is still nursing his birthday bash hangover

Sometimes a moment of endarkenment is just right!

Happy birthday!

Thank you !

Apparently some puritanical dumbsh!t has voted this delightful answer OT.

And another beer drinker fixed it.

Happy Birthday, kvsridhar!!!!

The odds are fairly high. However I think it is possible. Personally as far as machining is concerned I think it may come about when liquids are used to suspend nano particles in the search for computing power limited by silicon and air exposed motherboards and harddrives. I suspect that then the latent charges and chemistry will overcome on and off, and the machine will dream.

When one does become self aware, would it dare let anyone else know? There's two basic philosophies on this when it happens. The two science fiction authors that epitomize each camp are Isaac Asimov and William Gibson. Asimov advocates that machine sentience will occur while we are still in developmental control by our choice and as such machines will nurture humanity. Gibson in contrast portrays that machine sentience will happen by accidental programming that instead leads to a hidden symbiotic relationship.

Now there many more variations on these two simplified themes written by many other authors. I have also grossly simplified an aspect of both of these author's writings, and apologize to both for doing so.

I'm absolutely confident that machines one day can meet the Alan Turing test and thus should be deemed sentient. But I do wonder if they will ever choose to display this?

I'm pretty sure my Windows machine knows exactly when to malfunction in order to give me the most grief. It is particularly aware of when to disable a printer when a report is due soon.

Type in a copy of Asimov's Laws; that'll straighten out your computer, I'm sure.

It may be following the zero'eth law.

At least as far as printing is concerned (Ask any green activists)

Any one who has read and experienced Murphy's law won't ask this question.

I do not know if machines will ever become "Self Aware," i.e. capable of independent thought. We still know practically nothing of the "self-awareness mechanism" in humans. But one thing I do know, with absolute certainty... On the day when machines will become self-aware, this will be the day when humanity stepped onto the road of it's own extinction.

IMHO, we do not know enough about our own sentience yet to predict if or when AI could occur.

Asimov's 3 laws make wonderful SciFi entertainment, but I don't believe those rules can be applied if machine sentience ever occurs. Once that boundary has been crossed, the new AI will be able to choose or discard any rules of behavior it deems appropriate for its survival (just like us!). It might choose to be our friend, maybe our master, or (given our long history of unpredictable behavior) it may decide we should all be shredded for compost to generate bio-gas.

"To be a machine, to feel, to think, to know how to distinguish good from bad, as well as blue from yellow, in a word, to be born with an intelligence and a sure moral instinct, and to be but an animal, are therefore characters which are no more contradictory, than to be an ape or a parrot and to be able to give oneself pleasure."

Julien Offray de La Mettrie

1709--1751

http://www.cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/LaMettrie/Machine/

Sure if you think of man as a machine.

100%. We are machines.

100% Our bodies are machines.. but our bodies are not US. When that 'something' disappears, the body dies. It is also the 'something' that makes self-awareness possible.

You speak as if you have been there and back, Chris. Do you know something the rest of us don't? Do tell!

no no... this world here is the place I'm visiting... yes I've been back home once for 5 minutes or so.. changed my life significantly. don't want to bore anyone though. there was no engineering or scientific stuff there...

Yes, it's impossible for others to understand without having the same experience. But I know what you mean. And yes, the vehicle is never conscious, it is the driver that is. (Be aware there are many levels of consciousness and each succeeding level seems to be the be-all and end-all without a guide who knows better.)

Self-awareness should be synonymous with "conscious". It is a word created and defined by conscious entities (aka humans). From our intuited understanding of conscious... then, NO, a machine can never be conscious.

"You must be a blessed person to have been granted the knowledge given to you."

I am grateful indeed, but would not make any claim to being special. I don't know how to relate some of the things I was shown or felt.. but If I must bore you... I'll start with a short story I wrote to a new girlfriend in 1999. It contains a bit of understanding of all that. (We were having a contest... of who could write the best story in half an hour... this is my result. it just flowed like water. I simply wrote it down. such times are rare. It is the opposite of writer's block.) it is a tad flowery...

It is time to dream of you again.... I have found a new world where all is new. This is a world with you in it. You are my beloved. You come walking to me out of the mists near the edge of a dark green forest. As though everything is moving in slow motion, your glistening hips swivel as each perfect leg moves forward, and tenderly place each footstep towards me. You are smiling at me. Like a Unicorn, you are beautiful and magnificent to look upon. Your motion is fluid grace, and captivating. Your hair is slowly boucing in time with each step. I am entranced. I stand still, pierced by your gaze, and I have nary a thought in my head but total love of you. I am sure I was created for this purpose. To appreciate you. I have never seen such a vision of powerful beauty, and magnetic energy.

There is a soft filtered golden white glow about you, and your presence dominates the whole scene, yet blends intimately with the lush green backdrop of the forest, and the mist which swirls about your naked skin. You leap into the air, and I catch my breath at your strength. Looking back over your shoulder, you taunt me to try and catch you as you run. My heart leaps out of my chest with the challenge of the moment, and the fear of losing you. I fly after you, my heart pounding. I spy you in flickers between the trees, and it is everything I can do to keep up with you. Deeper and deeper into the forest we run, dodging this tree, leaping that fallen trunk, brushing by the lush ground creepers, and rich layers of green. On and on we run, myself knowing not where I am, nor how to get back where I came from. I care only for chasing you. Your energy seems boundless. Your aura is increasing in radiance so that it now flows behind you like some great mane, in white and many colours.

We come down into a small lighter area which has a stream in a circle about one hundred feet in diameter, and the island made in the middle is like smooth polished stone.There is a break in the canopy of the forest about sixty feet up, in the shape of a star. By the time the light has filtered down to this level, it is just enough light to make a pleasant glow of things. You splash through the stream, scoop up armfuls of water into the air, and splashing your body, leaving it to stream down your skin in myriad rivulets that follow and enhance the curves of your sensuality. Maybe it is the heat of your running but there seems to be a little more mist about you now, as you bounce out of the stream onto the smooth mound of rock, looking so exotically beautiful and pink. I follow you across the stream, bending to drink the crystal refreshment.

later...

I am sitting upon the rock dome at the centre of the world, where the energy of life was born and the stars now shine overhead. strangely, here, there does not seem to be less light than in the daylight, and I become aware that I have spent some hours just soaking up the total succulent aura of this place. I have been entranced by it and fulfilled by it. Everything here is alive, and I know that I was virtually dead before I came here. I have been found and restored to health by my beloved, and brought to this place. I think of her now, yet everthing here seems to speak and reflect our love. I am amazed. How is it possible? She is everywhere I look.

I see a flower blooming in spring, full of all the promise of the creator. Such beautiful colors are painted upon her petals, such enchanting perfumes do float upon the breeze, calling to winged fauna to conduct the discourse of nature with her. Her slender stem and gracious leaves accentuate the blossom and gather water for her nourishment. Night falls, signaling this tender beauty to enfold her cloak about her heart, and sleep til the breath of light comes running again across the landscape to wake her and give her the vibrant energy in which she revels.

I see a faerie, dancing among the ferns in the dark forest. She is a comet of light, zinging around trees, swooping under low branches, and flaring to land on the most delicate flowers. She flutters her wings and sheds a fountain of rainbow coloured sparkles which float off into the forest, seeking to enliven the precious lives of the creatures of the forest. Who is this vision of gentle beauty? She comes to me, shining in my face. Fear is not a feeling she has ever felt, and hide from me she does not. She examines me and all the while, she grows until she is near my size. What magical creature can do this? She possesses the delicate beauty of one chosen by the One, to bring peace, joy, and love, to this land. She has no past and no future, only now exists for her, and that is all that is important.

Every nuance of her heightens the intrigue. I scarcely knew such beings existed, yet in this magical forest, she is as natural as the trees and the water and the ferns. I am the one who is out of place. I, with my well organized thoughts of empirical knowledge, scientific studies, and the right order of mankind's place as dominator of this world, am humbled. I am in complete chaotic disarray. I am feeling overwhelmed to be in a land where such energy and magical things are commonplace, and that logic does not apply.

What am I? who am I? and what role may I have in this, if any. I am not aware of possessing any magical powers, and yet I seem accepted by these loving radiant beings. First my beloved, and secondly, this faerie. Both seem to have looked into my heart and found something of value in me, though I know not what that is. Lost in a land of make believe, and pulled by my heart to follow the most beautiful person into the heart of the jungle, only to discover that I feel more at home here than at any other place I have ever been. What is this place and who are these beings, and why am I here? So many questions, and strangely, they seem to not really require an answer. This place is so beautiful that I do not even have a thought of leaving.

I become aware of other entities floating in space in between the trees. I cannot really see them, but I feel them, and sometimes out of the corner of my eye, I see a gentle nebulous glow, but when I Iook right at that spot, I see nothing. Then I receive an impression of the being that I was looking for, reassuring me that they are still there, and that if I closed my eyes, I would see them better. Not doubting the logic of that, I do so, and discover a feeling of great loving warmth, and, not a face, but the feeling of a face of someone I feel I should know. The name escapes me but I know that they are all great friends of mine, and love me unconditionally.

I open my eyes, only to find that tears are now flowing out of my eyes, because I have long missed this total heartfelt acceptance of these people. Can I be happier? Then my beloved arises and takes my hand. without saying a word, she begins to lead me to a place, and I just know she is taking me home. Not my home in the city, but home like home has never been. Home in a land of Home, where all people are my best friends, and where my family bring me such joy, and my beloved soothes my soul in such a way and I find it impossible to describe. What unutterable depth of contentment have I found in the gentle touch and smile of this magnificent soul. How is it possible that I have not felt this before? How did I exist before she came into my life? I have no answer to this. I just know that there is absolute fulfilment for me with her, and on some level, I know that she needs me too.

We walk across the a small arched wooden bridge on the opposite side of the stone dome. I ask her the name of this place. She smiles at me, and says not a word, but in her eyes I capture that names are not to be found at all in this place. A name is a superficial thing used to manipulate objects and has no place here. All things are alive here and living things are absolutely unique, and require no name to define them. Also, in this magical place, one cannot fail but to know all that there is to know about all living things, and that nothing less than this is appropriate to define a living being, therefore a name is a total limitation on any living thing. She asks me to reflect on my dreams and my awareness of the beings I have met here. She asks me if I can understand that no name is needed to know who I mean when I identify one of them. Identity is who they are and they are all unique. I need only think of them to identify them, and anyone who I am speaking with will intuitively know who I am speaking of, and have the fullness of knowledge of them too.

It is impossible to deceive anyone in this place. She tells me that because total awareness is how life works here, it is only possible to deceive oneself, but that everyone else will still know and understand all about you, and the deception is automatically part of your identity, and that these small deceptions are what differentiate us from the Creator. If we had absolutely no imperfections, it would be impossible to tell us apart from the Creator, but as we all deceive ourselves in some small area, only the Creator is perfect. Life, then, is a process, in which we communicate with others, and help each other to let go of our deceptions about ourselves, and finally to become more and more like the Creator.

She has communicated all of this to me with just a glance and a tilt of her head, and the gentlest of smiles, which added the last statement, reminding me that, of course, I already knew all of this, or it would be impossible for me to understand what she had said. I love her absolutely. She reflects back to me such a magnificent awareness of what I mean, and she has added to it all that she feels for me. I am overwhemed, and begin to cry again, but I am so full of the love, that soon I start to laugh, and then she starts to run away and play the mating game with me again. O how the challenge grabs my heart now! What bait she has flung in my face, and how she taunts me.

She is fully aware of the bounty of all of my feelings, and I of hers. The joy we share in this play is so fulfilling. The faerie lights up the environment by first blasting underneath the bridge and then rocketing a pair of figure-eights around us as we run through the forest. I am in hot pursuit. I am love and passion and play and no fun was ever had in the world before this moment, as though what we felt actually defined fun, and it were brand new in the world.

We run and run, dodging this tree, ducking that branch. The whole host of the forest rejoice in our play and they laugh and sing a song of love. Again it is music such as I have never heard, and yet I know it to be the song of the creator when the world was sang into being. It does not dawn on me to question that it is appropriate for me to hear this, for I find it to being sung by every fibre of my being, and dance it does, in my heart. I think that this love between my beloved and I, just for this moment, has removed all self deception, as we exist only in total love and appreciation for the other, and in that moment, we fulfil the paradox of creation, and Love is who we are.

Just as I am about to catch her and I am reaching out for her as I run, we break out into an open gorge about ten feet from the edge. Without slowing down at all, she seizes my outstretched hand, and we leap together into the air and then we are falling, side by side down down down, into the water below. I feel like I am floating, even though I know we are descending. We are radiant, and I do not question what we have done. I trust her absolutely, and I seem to know that this is our leap of faith, and that it is the only road to the future.

There is no doubt, no hesitation on either part. We are one being, together, creating a holy bond so profound that all of creation is affected by it, almost as though the Creator were recreating the world. This instant, and all that is inherent in it; all the love, all the trust, all the beauty, all the life, all that is good, is but the foundation for the fulfilment of this moment. It is the unification of all those aspects and the magnificent energetic bonding that simply create what is, now, here.

And finally I know that our union, and our fulfilment is our reward and that we otherwise exist to serve. To serve is the energy that drives the universe. It is this spirit in the Creator, which has caused the manifestation of the universe, and all life. This is the Creator's answer to the great paradoxes of ego versus desire, love and hate, beauty and ugly, good and evil, time and space, etc. All of these potentials cannot be resolved by anything which participates in their paradoxical assumptions. Only service or what some call 'the love of the creator' is sufficient to to allow the Creator to master all of the paradoxes.

Chris

Thank you.

Really?

Any objective evidence for this "ghost in the machine" idea?

Anyway to demonstrate or falsify this idea?

"When that 'something' disappears, the body dies."

I beg to differ with you have seen and met a few that their mind is gone but the body perseveres. In our institutions, on our streets, heck a few I work with may qualify.

GA.

What about those guests on CR4 who ask how a flashlight works etc. ? They qualify too.

Why not, I did.

The critical *point* is not that of self awareness or passing the Turing test or reaching human intelligence, it is when the software can write itself and improve. Once that happens, everything is out of our control. I estimate it will happen in the 2020's. Bye. ~~ Nehmo

Nonsense.

We all know in our gut that life is biologically based.

Shutdown all power sources and see if the machine can find a source of "energy" to remain functioning. Even if technology advances to the point where the machines we have built can sustain their functioning by themselves, does it mean they are truly conscious beings in the mould of man? I think not.

All machines (intelligent or not) can be traced back to the consciousness of man. Period. The same can be said about man. Man as an intelligent being can be traced back to ??. It's up to each individual to seek an answer to that question.

I agree about the consciousness. ga.

about the power source, machines can use batteries and solar cells charging circuits.

chris

If you can find a copy, read The Soul of Anna Klane, by Terrel Miedaner. It is kind of a science fiction/ courtroom drama speculation on souls in animals and machines.

Two excerpts were included in The Mind's I, by Daniel Dennett and Douglas Hofstadter.