Job Opportunity After College

Because no one is hiring.

That is for sure. Its almost as if an engineering degree is a waste of time,effort, and yes of course...money.

You are correct about knowledge not being a waste. I wished i worded differently. I value my education and continue to build upon it.

Some time knowledge can become a serious problem to self and society as a whole if knowledge is not used for good of the society. Knowledge by itself is a good thing for sure. Using the knowledge in right or wrong way matters a lot.

Hiroshima and 9/11 and many such events are from not so good used knowledge. As most of the members of society are good, we often close eye to this unforgettable effect of badly misused knowledge. There are men out there working day and night for destruction. Good people should also work harder to make society a safer and better place.

Good people should always work for increasing the pool of good people and just surviving on their own is not enough. If you do so then the one left over may move to the other pool. Watch out, your duties to the mankind and contribute to it using your knowledge for good. Knowledge is neither good nor bad but its proper use or misuse sure is.

simply because they don't want unexperienced people. companies don't prefer to invest on freshers, as they need some training. instead they can hire experienced one directly.

or in second case they will hire a fresher, and give him/her donkey work, then they will not give any hike, they will take fresher on contract with condition of no hike in contract period, make him/ her work on so many departments that he/she can not claim considerable experience is any domain and can not apply after contract also.

though he/she has worked for 2 years, but if the experience is not in one domain, and 2-3 different domains, one can not apply for post demanding 2 years of experience.

and then you are left with no money, no expertise in any domain, no oportunity....

AtLeast these things happened with me or my friends...

best ways is to get job through campus.. but not all are that lucky..or brilliant..

in all this, if you are passing out from college in recession, then....... (i just remembered my graduation day.....)

i have given interviews for 5 companies, got disqualified from last round, and for 3 vacancies i have given competition to 250 graduate and post graduate students!(package company was offering were Rs.1.8 - 2.4 lakh per annum....)

but the junior of mine just got selected from campus in very big company at the package of Rs.4.8 lakh per annum!!!

you need hard work, good score through out, good college giving campus, good university, and GOOD LUCK for a simple job... (and all this at the same time also..)

but you can always go for smaller firms with very small salary or a good post graduation course with very huge fees any time...!! (at least it gives you one more chance of campus interview...)

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it is a story of average girl.. and 80% of student are in this category!

others are GURU on CR4...

What i really mean by this question is this, I know the market calls for already experienced people, but these people got theyre chance after school in most cases at the very entry level. They had to start somewhere though, and without experience. Just seems like it is has become increasingly difficult to even get an opportunity to develop relevant experience in the last 10 years. I agree, alot of freshers get hired on for certain projects, and then its see you later once project is complete.

Hi Dino, Don't give up. One possible way to get into a company, since money is tight, would be to be willing to work for much less money than they typically pay an entry level person. This would require a sacrifice on you part, but, it would be temporary and it could get you in the door and give an opportunity to learn the ropes and prove to them that you are willing to work hard and will be an asset to them in the long run. Good luck and hang in there!

One should NEVER work for less just to get a job, or get a foot in the door. This just leads to "intern abuse". When you go to ask for your deserved raise, they will just fire you and hire some other intern who will work for half pay! Moreover, you may displace existing workers who have served their time but whom you have suddenly made expensive.

Far better to work for nothing for a specified and limited period to "get in the door" and get to "know the ropes" than to work for half pay. So how do you survive? Thats what the second McJob is for.

That's not true. What many college graduates are expecting is to step out of college and land that high dollar job when they need to start at the bottom somewhere.

What the OP should do is start hunting for internships. He can even apply at several different Temporary Agencies. My company is slow right now and we are cutting back on people but when things get going again, we're always bringing in temporaries to fill the labor needs. Even though we are slow we still have two interns working here, one of them from India.

He can also volunteer.

There might not be any job openings advertised but if he goes to potential places of employment and offer his services for free so he can show what he can do, maybe one of them might create an opening for him. Even if they don't hire him he is at the same time creating a list of references.

Furthermore, many companies look to hire inexperienced people because they don't have to pay them as much.

Volunteering does not put food on the table or pay the bills.

No and I'm not saying it does. What it does do is get your foot in the door and gains you experience for your resume. Sometimes you're going to have to work at McD's until your opportunity comes along. I'm just pointing out options to help make your dreams happen. There are a lot of enterainers that had to work in mailrooms before they got their big break in showbusiness.

However, it makes one to learn, gain experience that may be counted and one gets exposed where there is a chance to find something that also pays.

I organized 2 big national conferences and 40 volunteers participated and they received experience certificates of great value to them.

Thank you Shyam, You've been making really great posts throughout this thread.

I do believe that some minimum expenses of volunteers need to be met/paid.

In rare case where there is no payer or hiring agency involved, volunteers can work for free. Accidents and rescue operations are often handled by volunteer for free and experience is often very satisfactory. One can also volunteer for special missions like trip to North/South pole or to the Moon or Mars if one thinks that such experience may be a rewarding one.I think there are something one can do by volunteering that otherwise may not be possible.

I myself spent one month in cancer hospital as volunteer Radiological Physicist looking at CT Scan, MRI scan pictures, computing tumor size and planning radiation doses to cancer sick people. I also took some serious classes for radiation therapy machine operators, nurses and interacting doctors. I also spent good amount of time talking to people who were scared of cancer and its treatment. I was also writing finance support letters to the Government to fund the treatment of poor people. Hospital did pay me small money about US$300 for one month for my car fuel and tea and coffee. It was an amazing experience working with more than 300 people who came to the hospital for cancer therapy. Taking out 30 days from my busy schedule was not easy but I can say that it was all worth for my life.

There are places where you just go for money and there are places where you go to feel yourself.

People in engineering education are much more than ever before. Just imagine that one small city in India can produce 40000 engineers each year. Where do they go remains a big question but they do move somewhere and then new batch comes again.

Perhaps there are millions of jobs still in waiting. New ideas create new jobs. Ideas can be invented by the existing organizations or by the team of new engineers themselves. Opportunity is enormous and only one has to look into it more seriously and in more challenging ways.

Go where no one ever have been before and use your talent if you have any to transform the world of people without ideas. In place of fitting into others requirement, fit yourself in your talent area to generate faster and greater output.

People with no ideas sure will be bullied everywhere so have some idea or recognize your worth first and then try out.

Many out here in this forum you can see have lots of ideas and one can learn from them or at least explore possibilities.

Life is an experience and not a jolly happy smooth living for many. Only those born in rich families perhaps will be exception.

"Just imagine that one small city in India can produce 40000 engineers each year."

WOW! How do all these miserable 40000 engineers ever manage to get employment?

because of construction of engineering colleges is still going on at various places. I mean the number of engineering colleges are enormous and it's keep on increasing.

Perhaps getting into the construction of engineering colleges is the way to go.

yeah. what kramarat said...

Main reason for the problem is that you do everything to get a degree and also get one but do not use large amount of available time for learning how to use your knowledge and survive with existing competition on your exit from University.

If only you know what you can do that makes sense to the world, then you are most precious one for the world. If you move just with one paper have your name and university seal printed on it then it is so so and you are calling for trouble yourself.

Many engineering student think, they will see what they will do only after getting engineering degree. Some think where they will move in and equip themselves with right gears and helmet. There is always some place for the one who can do things immediately and not for the one who want to learn by breaking things and spoil things due to ignorance.

There are perfect match makers there in open and get trained in right direction to find job quickly. People these days need more than a degree for sure so get trained in specialized area immediately you get out of the University. Your internship during education may also come to your rescue.

Walk into any big industry and tell them that you can solve their problem and perhaps they may already have some problem waiting to be solved so you just fit in there on the first introduction. Even if you do not know how to solve tough problem, you can easily get help from experts as support and then you are fit for anything and everything.

You need just one job. Don't get dejected as world is real big one for you. It has something or other for all. Keep searching and have fun in doing so.

This year I am planning to support University engineering degree students in highly specialized industrial training programs to make the engineers fit for the industry in few specialized areas. I am also going to make training affordable to all. Look for dates and program schedule on www.sensorstechnology.com web site. You may also find similar help near your place so look for it.

In India compared to other professions ,particularly on pure science stream, job opportunities for engineers are better. That is why every year many engineering colleges , mostly promoted by private organizations ,are coming up at various states. It is the right time to concentrate on the quality of engineering education in India. Universities have to interact more with industries, encourage regular training program and promote more real life based projects rather than virtual projects. I am optimistic that as long as development in the world continues requirements of engineers will be there and colleges and universities produce excellent engineers.

What got me my job offers during my last year of college was not my internships I did during college (we call them co-op's). The experience and knowledge gained from them proved to hiring employers that I can show up on time and will be useful.

In the real world, grades don't always mean everything. Right now in the tough economy in USA, getting an entry level job is very difficult because there are plenty of experienced candidates that will work for near the same pay as somebody right out of college.

If an engineering student only has a piece of paper (degree) and all A's, that doesn't mean squat many hiring managers that need somebody to do real work and not just take tests and do homework problems.

Proven past performance in a professional atmosphere is one of the best indicators of future success for hiring companies--interning helps show this. Plus, my internships were all paid and it was an extremely fair wage.

Some people prefer very young people in some areas where they can stay long for the company. However, some areas are best fit for experienced people to produce results faster. I do not expect fresher to work like experienced one, and they can be a support staff who can learn and do under supervision of experienced one to become more experienced one in time. Small companies can keep only few so they need highly experienced people. Big companies can absorb fresher very easily.

In the real world, grades don't always mean everything. Right now in the tough economy in USA, getting an entry level job is very difficult because there are plenty of experienced candidates that will work for near the same pay as somebody right out of college.

Yeah, they're probably volunteering for the jobs.

While the money men and bean counters get wealthier, the rest of us have to suffer.

It's time we all jump ship and get into the finance sector. By doing so we drive the value of those jobs down. There'll be nobody in engineering, so nothing will get made and, the whole thing will collapse in on itself. There has to be a balance and fairness.

Indeed!! Unfortunately you have a chosen a profession with no future in the western world. I am a senior Project Engineer with 30 years experience. I now work for the same money as I did in 1990. What has happened is India and other cheaper based economies have taken hold of the market, and we cannot match them economically. Hence we are off-shoring more and more to these cheaper countries. So hence there is less and less for the current Engineering workers, and hence your are at the bottom of the choice ladder. And in Engineering you cannot get a job unless you have experience, but you need experience to get a job!!

My last project I tried to price-match against India, but after pricing the Project, I could not pay my guys enough more than would put a bag of groceries on the table each week. These guys are now unemployed!!

My advice: Go back to school. Study a profession that is 1. Internetproof, & 2: Off-shoring proof!!..hard to imagine as we are now truly a globalised and interlinked economies world. Think smart and don't give up! Remember that India and all the other cheap economies will not be sending us work back again!!, at least not until we become cheap enough for them to off-shore back to us again. Which will be more than a generation in time, and our skill base will have gone anyway!!

Good luck with a new profession!

Dheave

I don't understand the West's mentality. Why doesn't the West just tax all the stuff made in the far east, so it's fair competition with local goods? Why doesn't the government encourage manufacturing by setting up trade zones and helping businesses, rather than over-regulate them? They do this in China. Why is big business allowed to make huge profits while pinching their suppliers? Why do we allow our companies to be bought by those overseas? Where has being patriotic gone? Why doesn't the West see what's happening and sort it out? We can't just sit here and say "there's no future in engineering in the West". Without engineering there is nothing. Let's fight back! We need more engineers in government and a "can do" attitude - let's make stuff again!

its called the New World Order. they plan to control the world. Less and less will you see economic policies making any kind of sense. They lead us to ruin as we are easier to control, when they hold out the carrots.

Yes, Agree that there is some re-alignment in economies and powers. I believe that it is a new world order. There is a thread of manipulation going on. Can't put a finger on it, but the evidence is in the news everyday.

Economics that do not make sense. Yes and sure I'm really happy in the news when I hear that in some remote foreign poor village there comes a big jobs boost of investment by a multinational corporation!

Conversely, some guy here in the West shakes his head, his job has been sent overseas and his job has vapourised. He has to support his family. He has worked for the same company for 30 years, little hope for another job anytime soon. He's educated and skilled. And he has to survive in this expensive society. How will he support his family. Do our Goverments give out "consolation prizes" of financial help because they allowed our jobs to be sent overseas? Something like an apology would be nice " Uggh we're sorry we let your job go out the door, but hey here's a few Euros" May be we could impose an offshoring tax to pay for those people who have lost their jobs to foreign workers. Good idea?

A Norwegian wise person has said "In order to survive in the future, you either have to be "Niche" or cheap!

Unfortunately I agree.

D

A few years ago I worked for a major Aerospace corporation. On that program there was a great number of Japanese working on a joint program. I watched in horror as they photocopied volume after volume of design and process technology. A lot of it was commercially sensitive material.!!

Me - I was a consultant hired in. I had to open my brief case every night to show the security guard as I went through the gate that I did not have any documentation. I hold national security clearance.

I have seen it happen, seen it all! NWO indeed!!

Unfortuanately, going back to school is an expensive option, especially when you cant pay for the first education. Rates of tuition has raised more than the cost of healthcare! Not to mention the expense of the toll it takes on the personal life, family, other obligations that go with daily life.

What kind of jobs are internet proof and off shoring proof, because, if they cant ship the job out there, they will let the labor come here.

seems true. What can be done?

What are the factors that create value "here" and keep it "here", whereever "here" is?

Among those factors are quality and loyalty. Unfortunately neither of the two fit in the bottom line of quarterly budgets. To the Economist, if you could get an education for next to nothing "$" in the western world, we too could produce thousands of scientists, engineers, doctors etc...out of small towns. If you could buy a loaf of bread for 45 cents in America, there would not be so much offshoring. India should be grateful to America's engineers for the development of Java among other technologies.

If a house is built in a specific country, with materials and labour from that country, and of course, sold in that country, and being something with residual value, continues to contribute real value to that family/community, as shelter, and grow as a financial investement, especially with improvements, does that not help the nation as a whole?

Does the barter system not automatically take over in times of wild monetary inflation, showing that real value changes very little. Shouldn't economists spend more time defining and teaching real value systems upon which the monetary systems are built? (at least, those with an eye towards helping their fellow man.)

Chris

In so far as the house is built to meet the demand of a dweller, it has created real value. The housing market we have created in this day and age resembles a drug market, where there is expected to be an endless demand from both new and repeat customers. Any man with sense can see the problem here. There is a fundamental lack of understanding of real value systems in Economics as it is taught and practiced today, and this is done on purpose.

Don't forget, all economists, (at least professional economists) are subject to the same policies that they help enact. If these poor chaps do not espouse the policies of the monetarist knaves who dare to call themselves economists, they will find themselves out of a job.

I can go all day, but this post is in regards to engineering, which thankfully is not subject to the laws of opinion.

I apologize... there is never an easy answer. you are right. but there is lots of fantasy.

Chris

Alot of homes are now being built with faulty drywall made in China. There have been many documented cases of these brand new homes greatly devalued because of this faulty drywall. Once again, quality over quantity issue. The labor is home, but not the building materials.

You must be from china.

You must not be a real economist.

I see from your response that you took offence at what I said. Funny, I did not mean it that way. What I meant was that, you should really know before you accuse the Chinese of doing something. Either way, I am not a "real economist", I was just discussing with Chirsg288 that they don't exist. Not here and certainly not in China.

Sorry. I'm sure you have some sensible smarts if you are blogging on here instead of playing farmville on facebook at the moment. Anyways, i do know from doing remodeling work in Fla a couple of years ago. Nothing against the Chinese, or the country, just its faulty drywall. Perhaps some valueable info for you if you plan on building in the future.

Can't wait till football season.

http://blogs.consumerreports.org/safety/2009/03/chinese-drywall-corrosion-health-problems-sulfur-odor.html

What kind of jobs are internet proof?

Artist. Artisan. Personal service. Retail. Sales. Construction and road building. Soil conservation, Forestry, Mining, resource management, farming, manufacture of specialty (niche) items which cannot be made off shore like Scotch, kobe beef or name brand jewelry.

What drives prices down? Insufficient demand, overproduction or both. Too much competition which of course leads to over-production.

What drives wages up? Limit numbers of trained people or increase production by increasing sales.

You guys seem to be casting around in the dark! The above are first principles...and first principles are ignored at one's peril. You guys KNOW this, yet you seem to think that the only way to get work is to work for somebody else!

The OP wanted to know why he could not get a job in engineering. The answer is simple, there are too many engineers for the jobs available. The idea that you can increase production by increasing sales has a finite end game and depends on the markets. When markets collapse, the sales collapse, and if the production does not slow down in lock step, and normal competition will drive the price of the goods down. Leaving less money to pay workers or engineers. When markets recover, the manufacturing sector will recover. So increasing sales is good in the short term, but bad in the long term.

What the OP needs to do is form a company with several like minded people and bid on jobs like everybody else. They may not be "traditional" engineering jobs. His company may have to seek opportunities in many diverse fields. (increase the "jobs available" side of the equation.) Look around you...there are lots of things that need doing.

Go do them.

Health care is another that cannot be off-shored.

Did you watch Sicko? People travel on Health Vacations a lot.. Canada, Europe, even Cuba... anywhere but the US. seems to me that it could, and the health industry in the US is determined to force it... through poor customer care...

actually that isn't true... it is just that the real customer is the health insurance companies, and they are well cared for.

Chris

Sure healthcare has its problems in the US. And yes sure, the very RICH can take these health vacations, what's that like .05 percent of the population? But you cannot be refused health care if you don't have insurance. Plus, our gov't does not dictate what healthcare/services/doctors that we need. We are also tired of taking care of the rest of the world as well in addition to sky high insurance premiums.

"We are also tired of taking care of the rest of the world as well"

If you are referring to the generosity of Americans in terms of donations to natural catastrophe's, I do believe that a lot of American's actually appreciate the opportunity to do good works... just judging from the evidence.

so perhaps it is just you that is tired of it. In that case, I suggest that you just stop.

It is a two way street. I know that Canada had many many volunteers that travelled to New York and participated in rescue and clean up of 9/11, and also Canadians were fast in responding to help rescue people during Katrina. (faster than W.)

I for one, appreciate American generosity, and acknowledge the generosity they have contributed to relief around the world. Many would suffer if American's changed their personal and public policies.

I do know that American government and industry spend untold billions in military spending around the world... If you are really tired of the inappropriate spending by the American government, I suggest you start cutting there. or perhaps you feel that it is more important to arm people, than to feed, house, water, clothe, and educate people?

Chris

Ok, good answer. But trust me, it isn't just "I". We probably have a higher number per capita of homeless and hungry in this country than any industrialized nation. Alot of it is not by choice. But, we spend more on foriegn aid(excluding the military spending) than we do on our own unfortunate citizens. That is what makes many in our country wonder.....Back to the healthcare....it is a mess here, no doubt about it.

I think there needs to be more controls put onto the health insurance industry.

Insurance is gambling. it is profit driven.

Health is largely an age and diet driven set of conditions. It is strongly affected by health and diet education, as well as economic conditions, meaning that it affects to poorly educated (health and job) most.

If it is the intent of the government to provide for the citizens of the country, then the structure of healthcare should match, and provide for the education requirements of healthcare...

What occurs now is better described as 'sick care' or 'drug care'.

Only when massive numbers of people lobby the government, in a manner equal or greater than the insurance/pharma dollars, will change actually occur, because the corporations have large amounts of money available to influence government decisions and acts.

cheers,

Chris

There was a lot of chit chat regarding "medical tourism" in the media last year. I don't hear it so often these days however. It only makes sense for, shall we say, complicated procedures, like heart transplants etc. where the cost of such a procedure in the U.S. would be more than the cost of the travel, procedure and money left over to vacation in other countries, like, if I remember correctly, Malaysia or Israel. '

All in all, my point is this. I do not believe that there is a professional expertise that is not at risk of being off shored, simply because off shoring makes perfect business sense.

I would recommend that engineering students should participate in a co-op program, going to a school which has one. If alternate semesters are spent working, interning, with companies, there are several benefits. Using my son as an example:

1. He earned enough to pay his living expenses.

2. He learned a lot by observing/interacting with upper level employees; he car-pooled with a vice-president, for example.

3. He gained useful experience which looked great on a resume', working on real-world projects.

4. After graduation, he was offered a job by one of the companies he had interned with.

In a short time he was managing an office, and, after talking them out of a non-compete contract, he improved on their product on his own time, poached a big customer, and was a millionare two years out of school.

Wound up in the Army myself almost 20 years ago.... Same situation.

Needed experience, and they were hiring... Got 19years military experience and a good Civilian job to boot.

Because there are too many engineers that graduate each year. Getting an engineering degree is very easy nowadays. The real challenge and the test is what you can do after you graduate. Your degree doesn't mean anything unless you go out there and prove your are capable of learning fast and being competitive.

"Getting an engineering degree is very easy nowadays."

it was 4 years before, and 4 years now. What makes you think it is easier? It is also vastly more expensive, which makes the graduates very valuable, even if green. (at least from Canadian universities) If it was easy, everyone would do it.

Chris

I didn't mean easy in the sense of the time and money spent on the education. I meant easy in the sense of the difficulty and rigor involved in trying to attain the degree.

I don't know about Canada, but at least here in the states, I have come across many who just paid for their degree. Even at the graduate level, some of the thesis that I have come across from some schools (I can name them too) make you wonder if all they care about is getting paid, and they will hand you the degree and you are on your own.

okay. its clear now. thank you.

The entire world is infected like a virus infection to the education system.

There are people who want degree somehow and have money ready for it. Their brain is fit for nothing. In India, many people paint themselves as professional degree Doctors and they do not have high school education. All it need a big board painted their name and few tablets and injections for every type of problem. Even if you have problem, you will get one coming near to them. At least for engineering degree they take admission and pay fee and once a while appear there to see if institute building is still there or not. Degree no problem as they have already paid the fee for it so management will do everything for it as they do not want such student to keep coming for more than 4 years. They will never fail them. You need not answer engineering question in exams, just write something there, like songs, some story of your friends or paint something that small child can do and yet you get good marks for doing all that. Coming to institute is a problem as institute may have space for less than half or quarter students it has admitted for making money so it is all right for them if only 25% students come to give a look of an active institute, only fee collection counters are most active nest to tea and coffee canteen. Some also come see if they can find a life partner there. Once a while there is some kind of engineering workshop, in which a picnic like gathering can be seen enjoying fun and food. If there is any class then teacher is reading the same book which student can also read if student has ability of reading and writing in English. Most of the engineering students regularly go to some professional private teacher away from their institute and near to their living place. These Gurus have ability to give them all clues to not only pass the exams but also find a good job. Why to waste time in institute? Enrolling in the institute is Ok for the degree paper but it is not worth getting educated there. You can say many of those engineering students are smarter these days. They know everything else other than engineering. They all have Laptop and Internet connection and a best quality mobile phone, I-phone plugged in their ears and shining bike and perhaps a partner. This all makes engineering degree education certainly of a great fun. Medical degree is a rotten area only to work with dead bodies. That is why people don't even take admission for medical degrees. They simply have to assume that they are Doctors of any kind they wish and they only have to appear dressed like a Doctor and they should sit in a place or shop that may look like a Hospital and get some Tablets and Injections fit for every sickness to send visitor to grave for good money. This does not require many years visits to institute, and just few months preparations will do.

Above descriptions may hurt feelings of those who go hard way in education and are or become real pillars of the world of knowledge. I search for them and I care for them. This is not so easy part of the life but this is what really runs the world. Let us all appreciate this and all those want some help to become part of this need to be helped and not to be out casted. Job search will still remain a problem for some for a while but not for very long. People who are hardworking also make good sense to the world even if they don't have sharp brain. They are slow but find in good position if they keep working and do not immitate others. Some people do not find highly paid job as they do not know where to fit in properly or how to convince others for their value or they they give too much value for something that is really not of much use and they do not switch to where they can get higher return. Such people require some kind of professional counselling. This engineering profession of counselling and guiding is not so well developed yet and it should be of priority in all institutes. Uniformly one kind of engineering degree for all is also a falls concept. I think one more year can be added to the degree in which training only in fitting areas can be given such that students become real fit for something they really can do. The last semester is often an industrial project but without proper guidance it may become useless for many. This portion need to be the most organized part of the education and more serious one as this is the time when one learns how to work and how to find a good job in industries and to make direct contacts with industries. That is one reason I am very much against copy cat work in this period. Go to industries and do real project work is the right thing to do.

Final year engineering project is the best time of the engineering educational life to learn something very useful is when wasted out by some of the students, then it also sounds like a most stupid idea. Who cares? I do.

Great response Shyam,

Market forces are always at work, and in this recession, we are seeing a clear manifestation of their power...

yap. The academic rigor has been abysmal in recent years. I think in trying to keep up with a Moore's Law of sorts, universities have had to restructure their curricula more often than usual in order to accommodate the flood of novel information, and emerging technologies in today's world. This has rendered the content of some degree programs 'broad, but shallow', hence bearing graduands that are half-baked; while other institutions have found the right mix of courses, and instruction respective to each engineering degree and have produced stellar graduates. Another option is entrepreneurship which surprisingly hasn't been mentioned here.

Due to supper technology available now for mass production, development has reached far beyond the level of understanding the graduate level student can have in Universities and also large money is involved in holding onto technology secretes and patents and information is not reaching where it is supposed to reach.

There are also less people now in academic area who have in depth knowledge and more in money making as they change their position for gain and no longer want to share secretes with others and always want to remain in the monopoly position. Professors getting million dollar in grants can not share knowledge within their institute else will lose their position to competition. I am not an exception to this as I myself moved out of senior scientist Government research job position to own an industry for higher gain and many of you also feel at times in similar way and do not want to give up even simple ideas where others can make use for some gain. I am still teaching and also putting lots of new ideas for young engineers in magazines like www.elecdesign.com/ where on their page you can easily search my name and some current publications.

If education system have to become at par with industry and top money making then it has to be very expensive. An idea in top technology can give millions in dollars which in life time in teaching job can not do.

From high school to degree education, in Singapore only <5% go for degree education and in India more than 50% enter engineering education. There is a lot of crown out there and for many Government or bank finance pays for the entire degree education and it is not difficult to pay back all that after education is over. It is also comparatively much cheaper in India to enter the University and in comparison to USA perhaps only 10% fee to be paid. Institutes spend less than 25% of it on educating and use rest for making more institutes. That is why there are ever increasing number of engineering institutes in India.

Do I have to look at that degree to employ a person. No. I never do that. I ask if person can do certain type of job professionally. If yes, then one is fit for the position else there is very clear NO. Being a small industry, more work and less money is also a criteria. People come to learn who after learning obviously move for better paid positions elsewhere. I have a plan to go for higher salary for the best one also but is no assurance that best with remain there. People have their freedom to go where they wish to go and I accept that right at the very beginning.

That is why there are ever increasing number of engineering institutes in India.

A friend from Bangladesh tells me it's analogous to China and coal power plants!

Business is one thing but educational institutes are not business in India.

These Institutes are operated under cover of NGO Societies or NGO Trusts or Section 25 non-profit making companies without shares and they operate with Government support and they do not pay any tax. Yet, people involved make all this for money making and treat the organization as very personal property.

Most of the Black money is also made white there, white money from student's fee becomes a Black money again. It is a perpetual machine and many Government agency officials are also involved in the same process to ask huge money to recognize and no money to de-recognize and to initiate legal actions etc. It has taken a shape of ugly nature as too much money is involved. Any visit of Government officials means a bag full of currency notes in hard cash. People with large money can put it in the institute to pay no tax. Actors, Politicians, industry owners and mafia leaders all can benefit from the tax free laws there.

I am more to the quality of education and less concerned about the financial crime part so I will not like to discuss much about it.

I think now it is becoming tough for the mushrooming institutes to get easy money but they have no choice so they will even admit cattle if that can give them money for engineering degree. In fact they are just doing that and only few good students get into the same rotten environment to feel all the dirt around them. You already know the people who come with gun to the institute so what is that one is expecting them to do. Families of Doctors want their Hospitals to be operated by their own children so they purchase their admission for any cost from their huge pile of Black money. I do not know how politicians get there children admitted there but they not only admit them but also ask University to give them top scores in the exams. Medical seats are sold for US$50000 or it may be even more, and then there are several hundreds of seats in single institute operating a class of 200 students without any great facility. What is going on is not really known to me. I have seen such things at few places.

I think very large number of mushrooming institutes are responsible for deterioration of the quality of engineering education. It is happening due to involvement of Politicians in the money making.

I do agree that a person can still do great science or engineering without any degree. Just look at the history for yourself.

For a Child of ordinary person it is an opportunity to become something either by learning or by hook or cook.

There is much concern that engineering jobs in the US are reduced because production is being sent overseas. US competitiveness could be improved with a change in tax policy. (This is not at all original with me; there is a sizeable FAIR TAX movement)

1. Eliminate corporate taxes, including taxes on profits, on capital gains, and even FICA (social security). Getting rid of individual income taxes would be nice, too.

2. That stimulates investment, cuts costs (including indirect costs, like all those tax lawyers), makes US products more exportable. (Some estimates say the cost of tax conformity by business is $0.60 for every $1.00 paid in taxes)

3. Replace the lost revenue with a sales tax, somewhat like VAT, on goods sold in the US. The sales tax is not paid on exported goods but is paid on imported goods, which puts the US producers on "a level playing field" with those in VAT countries.

Because dear person,

In essence, you came out of college with probably straight "A"s in your exams. And this is very credible. Now this only prooves you can pass tests.

Unfortunately I have had numerous students arrive in my departments with good grades, some with MSc's in Engineering. But they could'nt tell me where to start to even select a bolt!! This only reflects the education system that is failing to teach!.

When you get a job, you're just starting, and now a days they marketplace is flooded with competent, qualified and skilled engineers already. We are overmanned for a dimishing market.

Suggest you start a small business for yourself, this might be easier than banging on the door of an otherwise crowded room!!

DJ

The one who knows nothing of practical sense has to enter industry for both learning and working. Industries can afford few months learning time and sometime they also arrange special training and also finance such things. This is because industry specific training is not available elsewhere and it is a part of their human resource development program.

I looked for a year after graduating - shortly after 911. I sent out many resumes - had zero replies except 2 interviews - one for a 6 month internship - for which I only got the interview based on previous work experience. Decided to pursue a specialty education with more co-op doing something that interested me. The added work/education seemed to help. I make far below the average and dont do anything really technical - at least in my eyes - its actually pretty sad I had so many dreams.

Did this despite my family telling me I was cracked. Especially when I told them I was doing volunteer work - despite having a degree. They wouldn't seem to mind if I went to graduate school though.

You did a wise thing to keep working and learning rather than sit at home and do nothing.

Four years in engineering education is a lot of time and I see it all wasted and finally becomes a serious problem in life.

It is always nice thing to do to visit industries in your area and see what is going around there. You can easily find out if you can fit in anything there. Going in a small group is much easier as someone in industry has to be with you to take around and it is not possible for them to do such thing each day.

Here are some good ways to make an entry in a company.

1. Form your small group of 4-10 engineers and perhaps one senior mentor or guide or expert if you have one. You can even give a name to the group that sounds like an engineering company. Have your visiting cards printed with your title as engineer and your home address and phone number. Use this cards to exchange cards.

2. Now is the time to contact some good local industry where visit is planned. Find out the phone number and name of the maintenance engineer in the industry or manager of such program. Call him.

3. Request him to allow your visit to let you understand their problems and you intend to provide solution as help to them and you will like to make a personal visit of small team.

4. Get time and date and name and contact number of the person who will be with you during the visit.

5. Once agreed, be there in time and make an entry gracefully in a well dressed manner, exchange your visiting cards and during visit put some smile on your face and be with seriousness, listen every details and keep eyes wide open, see things as they show you in details and even ask question related to how things work or why this and that is there or anything you see but do not understand. Keep small note book or pen handy and keep making notes and draw simple line drawing sketch.

6. Listen to their problem/s and its nature and see if it fits in your current knowledge, however keep all details and tell them that you will analyze the problem and will respond back to them if any solution is possible.

7. After visit, thank the person for giving a great opportunity to let you see the industry.

8. Discuss among your group the details of the visit and what is that you have learnt in few hours.

9. Discuss if you can solve the problem and want to give a try. Take help of some expert to guide you to get to solution, but do it yourself as group activity.

10. Call back the industry visit support person that you can solve his problem, and perhaps tell him that some genuine payment may be required and ask him about it or ask for another visit for such discussion. Very likely you are in to solve the problem.

11. You can make such visits then to other industries and your team will finally become a solution provide and on the job all the time.

12. While doing all this, you can also explore of finding a position in industry.

Finally, I will say, a good luck.

I often send engineers after training to make such industry visits. They were able to make visits to one to three industries in a day in industrial areas and came back with lots of details of what people want as help. In one week they could easily visit 12 industries on average. In a month, they knew 40-50 industries, and their key people and their problems. Even if they solved a problem of one industry per month, they could earn more than an engineer could earn in a month. Their familiar face makes very easy entry on their next visit and they are greeting on each visit.

Shade off your fears and learn to behave alike an engineer and that is where one has to start with. How much knowledge one has is not really very important. Only one should not be dumb and stupid to waste life. I find more than 60% fresh engineers very quick in all this and for those 40% confidence level is often shaky. This is really may not be their problem and may be the way brain is wired inside which they can alter the wiring by slowly teaching their brains that they will improve by learning and acting in controlled manner. If this also does not work then go to Psychiatrist to understand yourself and get some proper guide lines to proceed. Particularly those under depression must take some help else it may become a serious problem for life. One can easily get out of depression by proper care and self meditation.

It really does not matter how good you are in comparison with others. You only have to feel good an keep trying to improve yourself and feel happy in whatever small you achieve. Do self analysis only at longer intervals of 90 days or 120 days. you can keep record of each day what is planned and what is done.

I think many here are experienced and they can tell others some ways to find something for those who find hard to do on their own.

I never suggest any one that you do this type of job to become rich. One is living in doing things and one should know what will make one happy in doing. Money to survive comes in many ways. Living in something of choice is always the best.

Dreams lost, is often for those who only dream and do nothing about it while others are working for their dreams and moving forward. One will have many dreams so getting some dreams shattered is often a possibility. Nothing to worry about it. You can always have a new dream and old one can go. Dreams keep coming and keep going. Don't shade crocodile tears.

********************Hello, I took Your advice and printed it off so we could have a good idea of what to do as we went to visit the Washing Machine factory today. He below is our experiences.*********************

Re: Job Opportunity After College
08/18/2010 10:28 PM
You did a wise thing to keep working and learning rather than sit at home and do nothing.
Four years in engineering education is a lot of time and I see it all wasted and finally becomes a serious problem in life.
It is always nice thing to do to visit industries in your area and see what is going around there. You can easily find out if you can fit in anything there.
Going in a small group is much easier as someone in industry has to be with you to take around and it is not possible for them to do such thing each day.
Here are some good ways to make an entry in a company.



1. Form your small group of 4-10 engineers and perhaps one senior mentor or guide or expert if you have one. You can even give a name to the group that sounds like an engineering company. Have your visiting cards printed with your title as engineer and your home address and phone number. Use this cards to exchange cards.

*******************Well I could only get 2 people interested to go with me. Bill my brother and Auntie Jean. We didn't have visiting cards and Bill is only 7 so we didn't make him write as he is still learning to write, but I tore off some paper so we could "write and tear" our names to prospective staff!!. We called ourselves "The Prospective Perspective Engineers" (I knew this would grab their attention.) It certainly got the PA annopuncer, who got tongue tied trying to say us over the system. But when I offered them my cards, they didn't seem to want them, or our home telephone number. We did ask to exchange cards, and one guy gave me a Joker card! mmnn.***************

2. Now is the time to contact some good local industry where visit is planned. Find out the phone number and name of the maintenance engineer in the industry or manager of such program. Call him.

*******************Yes we called the Washing Machine company and said we would like to come and plan a visit. I found out the maintenance Engineer is a guy called Frederick. We went to see Fredrick, but his manager said he wasn't allowed to talk to us because he was late for work that morning. And was not even allowed to have his lunch. Naughty Fredrick. But I gave him a piece of paper with my name, and Auntie Jeans name on it. He seemed really interested in Auntie Jean's phone number, and she is not even an Engineer?****************

3. Request him to allow your visit to let you understand their problems and you intend to provide solution as help to them and you will like to make a personal visit of small team.

********************I asked the manager if he had any problems?. And he started telling me about his leg and the war wound he got, then he told us about his problems of flies in the canteen. I said I didn't have any solutions about the leg, but if we were to use some bug-spray in the canteen, and if we did it first thing in the morning then the food would not taste of bug spray!. He seemed to think this was a favourable solution. I think this is good as a start for Hygiene Engineer may be?********************

4. Get time and date and name and contact number of the person who will be with
you during the visit.

*********************I got date and time and tel number of the guy who was supposed to be with us for tour, but he was at home with a sore leg too, so we just followed sign for "Possible workers" they had around the factory. Really helpful and they always put up signs for way out, just in case there is a nuclear attack, or so one guy said.*******************

5. Once agreed, be there in time and make an entry gracefully in a well dressed manner, exchange your visiting cards and during visit put some smile on your face and be with seriousness, listen every details and keep eyes wide open, see things as they show you in details and even ask question related to how things work or why this and that is there or anything you see but do not understand. Keep small note book or pen handy and keep making notes and draw simple line drawing sketch.

******************** We arrived in good time, Bill had to go to the bathroom because he was sick on the train. But we got there ok. We did a good entry, well may be not so good, because Bill needed a sick bag, and luckily the receptionist had a plastic bin, which helped a lot. Autie Jean had tissues to clean up with. We were well dressed too, I wore Dad's suit, and they never noticed that the arms and legs were rolled up, and stapled together, as he is much bigger than me. Auntie Jean wore high heel boots and a leather mini skirt, and Bill was casual, but now with an orange stain on his shirt. We all wore our best smiles, and were serious at the same time. This took us some time to master. Auntie Jean said that if you try to remember the face you had when you had diahorrea, well that kind of expression was it!. We listened to all sorts of details, and especially noticed that the machine operator was left handed. Then I remembered that we were to keep the eyes wide open. To tell you the truth I had just mastered the "Smile and Seriousness" thing. But we did it anyway. Auntie Jean got the best responce for her wide eyes thing, but I wasn't so sure because a security man rushed across to her, put his arm around her and asked if he could call her an ambulance. Silly man, her name is Auntie Jean! We Asked all kinds of questions. Even about the coffee machine in the corner, and about the correct temperature for brewing coffee. Which is 92 degrees C. Amazing!! Bill was impressive. He drew all kinds of things in his little book. He showed them to the Engineer, who thought the Kangaroo eating a frog was fantastic.! And he even drew a picture of Bob putting in a washer to get a free coffee instead of a coin!! These guys are really creative****************

6. Listen to their problem/s and its nature and see if it fits in your current knowledge, however keep all details and tell them that you will analyze the problem and will respond back to them if any solution is possible. 7. After visit, thank the person for giving a great opportunity to let you see the industry.

********************Bill got talking to Mr Grivens the chief metallurgist. They got on ok I suppose, and Bill listened to Mr Grivens problems while sitting in his big leather chair. Mr Grivens laid on the big couch and complained about his wife. We didn't have any solutions, but we said we will try and find a solution to his problems. I drew some pictures and Auntie Jean said he should run away!! Then he sat upright and smiled at Auntie Jean. By this time I was wondering if these people actually were real engineers at all!!..War wounds, flies in canteen, Wife problems.!! Mnnn not so sure I want to be an Engineer now? And I really didn't thank him for having to listen to him complain about his wife.**-----------------

8. Discuss among your group the details of the visit and what is that you have learnt in few hours.

***************Well we discussed among ourselves about the visit, and Bill said that the coffee the Engineers have to drink was totally Kak, Auntie Jean said they were very frustrated people, and I think they are probably a bit Geekish. We learned that Engineering can turn perfectly reasonable adults into raving loonies.**-------------


9. Discuss if you can solve the problem and want to give a try. Take help of some expert to guide you to get to solution, but do it yourself as group activity.

***************We tried to withdraw peacefully, but we said that although we made note of their problems, I mean the leg and flies things, and how Fredrik has to use his own money to buy coffees, and the smell of the wet carpet in the foyer on rainy days from the receptionist. Bill had made drawings, Auntie Jean made mental notes, and I had some scribble notes. But we all agreed that the way forward was for a Phychotherapist to visit the factory first!. Unfortunately there was no one expert enough to point us in the solution direction. I will call the health authorities tomorrow.**************

10. Call back the industry visit support person that you can solve his problem, and perhaps tell him that some genuine payment may be required and ask him about it or ask for another visit for such discussion. Very likely you are in to solve the problem.

********************When we got home yesterday, we called the Washing machine company back straight away. I said that they will have to cough up some serious bucks for our visit and solution finding! I find the direct approach is best!. Mr Grivens was most happy because we could hear him laughing so hard. I said that I already could solve the wet carpet smell in the foyer. ( but I didn't let it out of the bag that I would clean it). Bill suggested that he needed some time off from that crazy factory, and that was probably what was making him sick, and also could he have the money for a new t-shirt. Bill asked when we could come back for another visit. But we didn't hear what he said as the line went dead right then. Strange.**************

11. You can make such visits then to other industries and your team will finally become a solution provide and on the job all the time.

*******************We are calling all the local industries today, even as we speak Bill is already doing some more drawings, I especially like the Zebra he's doing right now!! We can't wait to find more problem people in Engineering. I hope the Fridge factory has a good stock of free iec-creams too!*****************

12. While doing all this, you can also explore of finding a position in industry.

********************* We, we decide we don't want to work with those crazy nuts in Engineering. But we really like to visit the fatories, as there is lots of freebies to be had. Our free Washing Machine for Auntie Jean comes next week, especially delivered by Mr Grivens hinself, and he said it would take all night to plumb it in to Auntie Jeans apartment. I said he's a bit slow and that his service should be a bit quicker.

Finally, I will say, a good luck.

********************** Thanks for you top tips, I think we will enjoy visiting institutions like this in the future as we are just getting into the swing of this!!"********************

*********************Sincerely , "The Prospective Perspective Engineers***************

I agree that you did a serious plan and at least you have learnt something from it of what to do and what not to do.

You can at least solve his problem of flies in the canteen. You can sell lighting system with blue lights having high voltage discharge grid cage to kill flies. You can also offer hand gadgets doing the same thing but having battery operated high voltage badminton or tennis racket.

Offer him an electric operated wheel chair that also has all types of controls and can handle his weight.

As my advices here are free, these may not be taken seriously. Those will take them seriously sure will move on. Advices may not result in success to all in any way.

Wow! You could have used that energy and creativity to write a new resume.

The reason for a lengthy reply with zero gain is very simple. Some people use lots of their brain power and body energy often in the direction which yields nothing to them except a satisfaction of being on their own without financial gain. People find hard to convert their energy into financial gain.

Just a few year old child can become a millionaire and the entire life grown up one may remain poor is how our brains are built up in realization capability of its own.

I feel kinda woozy, like I wasted spent 15 minutes reading a Mad magazine... makes the brian numb. creative humourous writing, but sadly, of no value to anyone. If you were a standup, you would get boo'd off stage.

Many people may like to give work to start up but seriousness in work sure is required. See how your adviser helps at the university and for what he or she is doing that. No one need to care for you. However, those people who are not so young sure want young people to pick up simple ideas, use their strength and move. Ask any industry if they prefer young or old people. Other than special experience, rest can be learn quickly. No one can work alone so people are needed all the time.

It's like, you are either qualified or you are not. It is cut and dry. If you are not qualified, keep working at it. By that, I don't necessarily mean blasting out resumes, but alot of continued study and research. It is not about the jobseeker, it is about the industry, what they need, and who they deem qualified.

Discovering one's own capability is very prime in life to get some success. One can start looking at it any time in life. While hardworking in one area may give nothing, one may get a lot in simple things like playing singing, dancing, acting, photography, freelance writing work, writing novel or short stories, or working in many conventional way that is away from education and needs only skill.

Exchange of money from one pocket to another is how one feels to give away for something that interests one to act upon. It is some kind of art and masters are only few and some of them are the best and others are so-so. Every citizen can become a President but what do think are prospect of all citizens in making a President. There is a competition all the time and it is the world for the fittest to survive. People will change when survival calls for or they will not be there to be counted.

People are different in same society.

Shyam, you make excellent posts. Without competition, there is no advances in whatever aspect of life...engineering, singing, or making hamburgers.

given you a GA for that

It would appear to be a univesal thing that the education establishments say get qualified.

But then when qualified its difficult to find work. Its a pity the educational people dont offer help to find work after they have educated you.

as they say dont give up you may even have to start low to earn money while you search for the job your qualified in, That way you will gain some experiance al beit in another discipline.

In reply to my own whiny post and subsequent general remarks/advice given. First, I worked two really bad jobs while looking for a job - post -graduation. Since, I didn't live at home. And I was very naive when I went to school.

My response was whiny and in response to the advice given.

My advice is two fold:

1. Get some hands on experience while at school or before even attending school. There are lots of ways to do this and many reasons to do this. Ensure some of it is paid experience - or involves a legitimate organization with awards/recognition. So you can translate this to a resume and it can be backed up with references.

2. It's all about sales. This is even true about where you go to school - it's not the education, ITS THE CONNECTIONS YOUR SCHOOL HAS...a good school has a solid network - not necessarily a difficult education ( I know I studied at a couple schools).

Ambition, major self-confidence, an ego, networking, or a great SALES PRESENTATION will get you a job/interview in any industry. You could be a major cheater or a poor student and still get a great job. I've seen it happen time and time again.

Note - responding from NA.

Networking as the other posts have mentioned is very important. Go to professional seminars (now that you have the extra time) and network. Recently at one IEEE seminar, an Engineer (now unemployed) of 30+ years of experience suggested that I go for a graduate degree in Engineering Management. In a nutshell he said that if you have the desire,drive, and capability to go to graduate school this wouldn't be a bad time to do it. hiring is dismal at the moment. In graduate school you'll at least have a part-time job (hopefully in your field of interest) or an internship/co-op of sorts. @Shyam: I like your last statement about dreams. I wish someone told me that as a freshman in high school.

Ok. So I've read all the Blogs, and now I have to be brutally honest with you.

I would not hire you because you have little experience, and my budget like a lot of companies budgets does not have a margin to train you for what we need you to be good at. (passing exams and good grades don't count in the real market place. They only indicate intelligence). I will consider experience only at the moment.

Some teaching institution blew smoke in your ears, told you that engineering was they way forward, and to run with your desires of becoming an engineer. A dream only. Yours or theirs I don't know.

The west has a glut of Engineers, and we are becoming cheap, abundant and skilled.

But we are not as cheap as India, who churn out masses of engineers. And don't forget that if we just consider that 1% of the population is genius, then 1% of Indias engineers will have the West swamped soon. Cheaper and smart too.!

Unlike a lot of companies in the West I will not offshore to India, even though the phone rings every other day with an Indian asking me for work!! My company was built on the skills of my workers, in return I owe them loyalty back again. This is something that Big US companies do not understand, and will not respect the real assets. That being your own skilled workers.!

Sorry, but I see several resumes like yours everyday. And the way I see it there is no future in Engineering as long as the guys with the cheque books run off to India and make cheap our long lived skills and liveyhood.

Pick something that is offshore proof, and dream on that.

Sincerely. Grumpy old Project Engineer!

Thanks grumpy engineer. Somewhere along the line, you started with very little experience as well, along with the abundant others. When they all retire, that company will have no choice but to acquire overseas employees.

Thanks grumpy engineer. Somewhere along the line, you started with very little experience as well, along with the abundant others. When they all retire, that company will have no choice but to acquire overseas employees.

Yes, we all started with little experience. But that was then. Things aren't the same anymore.

These guys won't retire, because their jobs have gone overseas already.

And that company won't call for overseas engineers, actually the overseas Engineers bought up what was left of it and shipped the lathes and equipment to China. Obvious that you don't seem to notice Globalisation or market forces.

Regards Grumpy Old Project Engineer

Heck, the only thing i ever "dreamed" about was hitting the lottery to pay off the loans that paid for my education. Or being surrounded by beautiful women. Being a bottom feeder is an experience like no other.

Frys with that burger?

I do not particularly like your pessimism, although most of what you say is true. However, I do think there is a future in engineering and I am going to stick with it. Innovation is what we need to emphasize. Anyone (especially the Indians) can excel at followinga design guide to complete a specific project. But when it comes to having the creativity to improve on current designs or processes, most are clueless.

My first boss was a grumpy old engineer like you. One day, he told me to slow down, be patient and gain experience and in three years, if I am lucky, I could be making $70K. I told him, as long as I have the will and creativity and enjoy what I do, I can make 10x that amount and I left. Many thought I was young and foolish, but in the meantime, I diversified. They got laid off.

Yes, I am probably a pessimist they days.

But You know as much as experience is to be gained, one can also be taught by experience.

Somtimes a pessimist is simply an optimist with lots of experience!!

And I agree with your analogy of the build to spec of India and other cheaper ecomomies. I have seen their offerings and for all that I have tested, they fall short, especially on quality. Products look good, but don't last the pace on test.

Regards

Grumpy old Project Engineer

If you have blue collar experience and engineering experience you just separated yourself from 90%+ of the competition...

Just saying.

Exactly Krush!!

Experience is very high on the desirables list for choosing employees.

I had an MSc Engineer last week for interview. I asked him some simple design ideas, and he flunked every one. His Idea was that the computer would supply the answers.

I wonder if there was a computer around to design the first airplanes?

Mnnn... Educated beyond sensibility I assume, with no blue collar exposure at all.

Dear Graduate,

We can debate all day long about why you can't get hired.

But what we should be doing is trying to help you in your question! right?

Why don't you upload your resume! And we can, as a community suggest ideas to you to try and make it happen for you!!

JB