Expedition Head Gasket

147000? It's f____d. Change the engine.

This depends on whether you are going to do it yourself or have the mechanic do it.

Changing head gaskets is not too difficult if you have some mechanical proclivity,and there are head gaskets out that are better than the originals, better seal, no need to re-torque,etc.

That said, I would spend the money to have the head magnufluxed to check for cracks, and checked for warpage, in which case it can be resurfaced.

If I was doing this myself, I would also do a valve job, ( new valve seals and re seat valves), which, if they are in pretty good shape, can be done with a drill motor and some valve grinding compound.

If you are going to hire it done, it may be a tough call on an engine with that many miles on it. Speaking in pure man hours, the time involved,(labor costs), in doing the heads and an engine replacement are probably pretty close, but you will have the cost of a new motor added. Once you get the actual dollar numbers, it will be easier to make that decision.

I don't know if you have a back up vehicle, but, if you were to pull the heads and check the degree of cylinder wear on your existing engine, this would also be a factor in your decision.

Your post was really good except in one point:-

If I was doing this myself, I would also do a valve job, ( new valve seals and re seat valves), which, if they are in pretty good shape, can be done with a drill motor and some valve grinding compound.

Never do that. You need a special mechanical Oscillator between the drill and the valve as a valve must never be turned through 360 degrees. In fact 180° is about the max......

Glad you brought that up.

now i know there is even equipment that oscillates back and forth but i have asked the following question many times and have yet to get a good answer.

Why do you have to lap valves in using a back and forth action ?

so long as the valve stem is lubricated, and the full weight of the drill is held so no load is place in a side ways direction on the valve guide i can not see any damage would be caused.

also if you lap one valve seat the old way and then lap one in using a drill on low speed, i defy you to tell the results apart.

ps not haveing a go but seriously i suspect the reason is just when valvaes where lapped in they had no other equipment other than the suckers on the end of rods and it was placed inbetween their hands and rotated back and forth

any one any ideas as to the correct way and why ?

Not turning through 360° stops the possible buildup of circular grooves in the valve and valve seats which would lead to the valve quickly starting to "leak" within a short space of time, especially the exhaust valves....

Fuel efficiency suffers as a first.

If its a diesel engine, you could even get compression/starting problems...so when I do a diesel engine valve, it has to seal when tested with something like petro (old mechanic trick!)l. But I use denatured spirits, safer (the fumes dissipate upwards) and outside in the yard only.

I bought a special drill attachment (about twenty years ago) which holds the stem and works really well and a 4 (8 valve) cylinder engine is completely finished in about 3 hours, instead of 2 days by (painful!) hand.

My diesels start very easily and have good compression when tested.....

I used my described method 5-6 years ago on both heads on my 1986 GMC pickup with no ill effect whatsoever, and have done so on other vehicles as well, without incident.

The key is that they should be in fairly good shape to start with, obviously, severely pitted or worn valves should be replaced with new, and if replacing, professionally having everything seated would be in order. If the valve and seating surfaces are in decent shape, this will absolutley work fine. A light application of valve grinding compound, hook drill motor to valve stem, (seals in place), a slow turn with a light bumping action between valve and seat, alternating between clockwise and counter-clockwise rotation, check frequently until smooth matte finish is achieved, thoroughly clean everything, reassemble, adjust valves and drive. It works.

I did this, as well as installing a Crane Fireball electronic ignition, replacing the frequently failing ignition module under the distributor cap and to this day she runs like a champ.

I would also add, that anyone not having previous mechanical experience would be unwise to start with replacing head gaskets.

I still believe that it can cause problems, the ones I mentioned, but if you only do a light lap, I expect you can get away with it, especially on petrol engines...

On diesels, I think that you will get possible problems relatively quickly......as I (nor any of the people I ever worked with) ever did it this way, I have no comparison. But the chief mechanic where I worked when I was 14, was very strict on that point.....

I have been personally complemented by diesel mechanics on the outstandingly easy starting in extreme cold weather of my cars, with glow plugs that already had nearly 200,000 miles on them in some cases......

I have even been told that all my "burnt black" glow plugs should be either polished or replaced for better starting when he first saw them out of the engine, till he saw how the engine started. (Total idiocy!)

He was one of those professional/amateur mechanics that replaced them each year when winter came!!! A high cost item.....

If the compression is right and the glow plug glows red when attached to a battery, the engine should start!!

each person is responsible for his own actions. I take an engine rebuild VERY seriously and I don't want to ever do it twice, no matter what the mileage is......

I take an engine rebuild VERY seriously and I don't want to ever do it twice, no matter what the mileage is......

I agree completely. I've never worked on a diesel, so wouldn't know.

Lapping compounds come in different grits and it works for me, (no grooves). That said, I wouldn't recommend even getting that deep into engine work to someone without experience with engine work. When I do work on a motor, it takes me a lot longer than it would a pro, because I double and triple check everything as I go, but when I'm done, it works.

On the other hand, I've also seen professionals get real sloppy with their work, because they've done it so many times they feel as if they could do it in their sleep, resulting in failures.

Professionals are often CRAP, really big time......especially mechanics.....especially modern ones....

Plumbers are next!!!

My Dad always told me, " If you want something done right, figure out how to do it and do it yourself ". Truer words were never spoken and I continue to heed that advice today. He also pointed out to me, that the word," professional ", simply refers to someone that gets paid to do something and is not necessarily a reflection on their competence. Again, very true....sadly.

Very well put, I agree fully. (With your Dad too!!)

Well said kramarat. My dad used to use a similar phrase, and I couldn't agree more. I, like most others, have been rooked by "professionals"...professional shysters that is. Thanks for all of the great banter. I am enjoying the heck out of it.

Z

Gotta love the older stuff. I have a 1986 GMC pickup, 454 engine, (exempt from most of the smog stuff), Turbo 400 tranny. I'll never get rid of it. It's the one vehicle I own that I know I can keep running myself.

Actually, the advice I gave to the OP could very well have been completely wrong and out of date, since my knowledge is based on that truck. The newer stuff just gives me a headache if I try to work on it.

I've located some long block, reman engines for this vehicle on ebay in the $2,400.00 (buy now) price range. I have found that the 5.4L for the model years '98-'01 are rather scarce. I suppose that could be due to the problematic design of the head itself. Who knows? Elevated scrap metal prices and the cash for clunkers program have definitely limited the number of used engines available also. Do you have a good source for engines? I'd like to find a used one if possible.

Z

Thanks for the link. I'll check it out whenI get a few minutes.

Z

Probably something you would want to find within driving distance. Rockauto.com has a longblock for $2,052 +$700 core charge, I've done business with them, good prices and prompt delivery, but I think they're in Wisconson, the shipping will kill you.

Forcing engines to be ruined and vehicles to be crushed on "cash for clunkers" program was stupid as hell. But, we can talk about that some other time. Good Luck!

ps- Not to sound like a smart a$$, but you already have a used one, just get it rebuilt.

I agree with you on the stupidity argument. I don't know what, if anything, they were thinking. I doubt that the impact of taking these "inefficient smog machines" off the road would even be measurable. What a sham... I suppose it's ok to screw the parts suppliers, garages, and remanufacturers over for political points. After all, "green" is the new buzz, right?

You don't sound like a smart a** at all. The overhaul is probably good advice, and wouldn't cost much more than buying a long block, ReMan I'd say, especially if I have to pay freight on a rather long shipment. Wish I had the time to put it on an engine stand and do it myself, but it would end up like the last 27 home projects I've started with good intentions.....

Z

I don't know what your financial situation is, or how quickly you need this vehicle back on the road, but given all of the information so far, I would say the best bet for the buck would be to get a reputable local garage to either do a complete overhaul or to redo both heads and head gaskets.

A lot of local mechanics will not only provide a warranty for either one of those jobs, but, given the shape of the economy, will give you a 12 month 0% interest payment plan as well.

My thinking is, if you buy a reman long block and this problem is common, what's to stop it from happening again.

The other advantage of going local, as opposed to a long distance reman, is that if something goes wrong, I want a real person right there that I can bring it to and get it fixed.

Don't even get me started on talking about my unfinished projects......I've got plenty.

zenos,

One more very important point to add to my above post. If you're not going to do the work yourself, I think it's important to stay local if possible, and let one shop handle it, even if it's a little more money.

The reason is, if you order an engine/parts/whatever, and have a local mechanic do the installation and something goes wrong, (and this will happen 99% of the time), the mechanic will blame it on the manufacturer, and the manufacturer will blame it on the installer. Leaving you SCREWED!

Make it one stop shopping, let the installer order and install parts, that way your warranty is solid. In the meantime, you can do your research and make sure the parts prices are in line with what you are finding. Good luck!

The C for C campaign had a twofold purpose. Stimulate the auto manufacturing industry during a major down turn in sales and at the same time remove some of the higher polluting vehicles from the highways. As a side benefit, also remove vehicles that may not be as safe (worn or non-antilock braking systems, worn suspensions, older air bag systems, etc.) as currently manufactured vehicles.

Depending on how good the rest of the vehicle is, interior, suspension components, rust, electrical system, etc., and how long you intend to keep it, the first things you need to know is what you have. Have you changed the oil and filter regularly. Read: Is there a lot of sludge? Have you done a leak-down and compression check. That will determine what needs to be refurbed. Maybe the rings are acceptable and the valves in the non leaking bank are as well. You can squeak by with rebuilding only one head or opt for both heads while you are there, plus spark plugs, water pump, belts, coolant hoses and vacuum hoses and any other things you don't want to have fail during a trip. If the rings don't look good, a factory rebuilt engine (actually usually contracted out to an authorized rebuilder who may be required to rebuild per factory requirements) is the safest bet though it might be a few hundred dollars more. The warranty will probably be better. You can't be sure what you'll get for a rebuild from other suppliers, ie. what is the cut on the crank and cylinder walls. Were ALL the pistons changed out? How about the cam? What was done to the rods? I had gotten a factory rebuilt '85 Olds engine from Mr Goodwrench 140,000 miles ago and it still runs great. It cost about $200 more than at the national chain parts stores. It came with a three year warranty instead of one. I think I got a good deal.

Sorry i have no knowledge of said vehicle, best i can do is the links below

1. 1999 Ford Expedition XLT Comments (r15601), Page 3 29 Dec 2008 ... I have had no problems with the truck with exception of 1 coil pack at about ... Already dealt with the leaky cylinder head gasket under warranty, ... 1999 Ford Expedition, 180000 miles, 5.4.engine. ... I own a 1999 Ford Expedition 5.4L E.B. Edition, which I purchased with 69000 miles in early 2004. ...
   www.carsurvey.org › Ford › Expedition › 1999 › Review - Cached - Similar
2. 1999 Ford Expedition XLT Comments (r15601), Page 2 Never had an engine problem (4.6). Drivetrain tranny good so far. ... The head gasket BS kills me. FORD and the rest of the American makers better wake up. ... I purchased a new 1999 Expedition XLT (5.4L V-8, 3rd seat, 4x4, etc. ...
   www.carsurvey.org › Ford › Expedition › 1999 › Review - Cached - Similar Show more results from www.carsurvey.org
3. WikiAnswers - Ford Expedition XLT Questions including "What size ... How do you install a thermostat on a 1999 Ford Expedition V8? Piece of cake. ... The Spark Plugs are on the cylinder head of the engine. ... How much should it cost to change an oil pan gasket on a Toyota truck? The cost is minimal. .... Where is the oil filter located on a 1999 Ford Expedition Eddie Bauer 5.4L? ...
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4. WikiAnswers - Ford Expedition XLT Questions including "What are ... If head gasket is broken between oil and antifreeze passages what are the problems ... Oil Pump Removal & Installation 4.6L and 5.4L Engines 1. ... Where is the rear differential plug on a 1999 ford expedition? ... What are the weight specs for a 1988 Ford Bronco Eddie Bauer 351 ci 4x4 xlt automatic 3 speed? ...
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5. 1999 Ford Expedition Consumer Discussions Page 4 1999 Ford Expedition XLT 4WD. Written by: dcortes on Sep 01, 2003 00:29 PM ... I too have a 1999 Expedition with the 5.4L V8 with 70000 Miles on it and have ... on the head gasket problem w/ 99 EXP: Component Description: ENGINE:GASKETS ...
   www.edmunds.com/ford/expedition/1999/discussion.4.html - Cached - Similar
6. Get more discussion results
7. Ford 99 5.4L Triton Engines - F150online Forums 15 posts - 12 authors - Last post: 3 Mar 2000Head gaskets may not solve the problem. (This info. seems to be reliable since I heard it a from Service Mgr. at large Ford dealer in NJ, who has a 4.6L Expedition and .... 1999 F-250LD 4X4 XLT Supercab, Short Bed, 5.4L, AT, 3.73LS, ... Transmissions, V6 Engines, V8 Engines, Wheels, Tires & Brakes ...
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8. 2001 5.4L Head Gasket Oil Leak - F150online Forums 14 posts - 10 authors - Last post: 15 Jan 2002Got a 1999 Expedition XLT w/ 5.4 L. Head gasket was replaced in 9/00 ... Before I took my F-150 SC Flairside 4x4 in I pressure washed the engine and under carriage. .... It looks like Ford has not solved the oil passage problem from .... Transmissions, V6 Engines, V8 Engines, Wheels, Tires & Brakes ...
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9. Ford Expedition Repair and Maintenance : RepairPal Information on Ford Expedition including known problems, technical service ... engine runs rough at 1500 rpm. Anonymous, 1997 Ford Expedition, 5.4L V8, Calhoun, GA .... 1998 blus xlt- 4x4 had it since 99 was off a rental yard. .... External oil leaks develop from the cylinder head gasket on the passenger side and ...
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10. Ticking noise form 1999 Ford Expedition NEED HELP ASAP - Ford ... 15 posts - 5 authors - Last post: 12 Apr 2008Small Block Windsor V8 · 3.0 Vulcan V6 · 385 Series Big Block V8 .... bad head gasket bad exhaust gasket ... 98 Expy XLT 4x4 5.4L ... bad head gasket Had one fix less then a year ago no signs of a return problem! .... You can easily throw hundreds of dollars at the engine and not solve the problem. ...
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Thaks Peter. I've read some of this previously. I work in automotive supply, and one of my cowowrkers told me he saw one of these heads hanging on a wall in a quality review area at a Ford MC corporate facility a few years ago. Ford knew there was a design issue, but it was cheaper to keep quiet. Usually how it goes with OEM's...

Z

In the area that you are in there is several good engine re builders that are only about a two hour drive. You will find several recyclers that are in the same area that will deliver to you a used motor. Greenleaves will sell you a used engine with a warranty and deliver it to you and have operations in North Georgia and thought the Southeast.

The engine swap will take you about two days if you have everything ready.

You will find several shops that specializes in engine swaps, don't overlook your speed/ race shops as a option.

If you rebuild the heads you will still be using the bottom end with high mileage on it, from my past I have found to do it all weather it is a rebuild or a used swap.

If your TODO list is one of many projects that get to a stall point send this to a shop or to someone to do.

I have a good friend who is service manager for a ford dealership. He says a 'normal'

overhaul is not a doable thing on 5.4 ford engines due to extremely close tolerances on these engines. i usedto be a service manager for ford years ago, tend to believe he is right.

Hearing that, I'm glad I made my disclaimer comment in #4. I'll think I'll keep my old truck. Good post.

My, "shade tree", valve job would probably not work well on this particular vehicle either.