Water in Fuel Technology

I'd invest heavily in this if I were you. You've obviously got a good grasp of the technology.

What are results of combustion of water in heavy oil?

Oil and water don't mix.

Where does water go?

Heated water turns to steam.

Is there any corrosion take place in boiler?

Rust (probably) if water and steam are involved in a heavy oil burning (?) boiler.

Is it safe to adopt this technology?

What technology? Can you provide more information and a link.

Water and steam are already involved in heavy oil burning and water is one of the products of oil combustion along with CO2 and many semi-combusted organic compounds, oh and since the oil has some sulfur content a amount of SO2 and SO3 is formed.

I think he may be talking about this, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_injection_(engines), but no way to be sure from the post.

If it's engines, then it's a topic that's been covered a number of times before:

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/59447#newcomments

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/56792#newcomments

But the OP mentions a boiler, where combustion is an entirely different process (extracting heat rather than mechanical energy from the fuel). It looks like water/steam injection is used to reduce NOx emissions:

I have no experience of this, so I can't comment further.

Eschew Obfuscation!

I have been studying this for many years. You have a steep learning curve before you. Follow the links kindly supplied by others. You will wish you never asked, just as I did.

Now after nearly 25 years I am getting a grip on things and still, there is so much more work and research to be done.

You, as a novice, have the chance of a snow flake it hell. There is no short cut. If you find one let me know, I would soak it up like a dry sponge.

Would I like to discourage you? YES!

Give this a go if you have some spare time on your hands, Ky

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20060227/FREE/302270007

Strictly speaking water doesn't combust.

Hydrogen combusts with oxygen to form water.

Think of it like oats and horsesh*t.

Oats are the hydrogen.

Horsesh*t is oats that have been through the horse. Water is horsesh*t in this though experiment.

You wouldn't expect the horse to get much out of re-eating the horsesh*t now, would you?

You now have sufficient orientation to the problem to answer your remaining questions all by your self.

Milo "hopefully you know that combustion and steam generation occur in different 'parts' of the boiler system..."

And this is a good analogy for the hydrogen augmentation of fuel combustion systems discussion. Except you should add that they reconstitute oats from the horseshit first then inject it into the fuel system/combustion chamber.

<...You wouldn't expect the horse to get much out of re-eating the horsesh*t now, would you?...>

Elephants eat elephantsh*t!

Elephants eat elephantsh*t!

I participate in this thread and still get a good .....?????..... out of it.

Gorillas have a similar behavior, very inefficient digestion. Of course the second time through may well not be as beneficial or effective as the first time.

Great analogy using a horse, but lets not confuse this with the ridiculous digestive system of a rabbit. For a rabbit to get to complete its digestion it must eat some of their pellets (the soft black pellets) because this is how they successfully break down the cellulose walls.

The basic philosophy involved in using water ( very small quantities ) in any combustion process is as follows:

Steam at around 700 C temperature reacts with soot particles ( ie. carbon ), converting them into carbon monoxide and hydrogen - both of which are clean burning gaseous fuels.

So, you get a cleaner burn and a more efficient combustion.

Where the water is injected, etc. is a matter of an appropriate design. Too much water also may reduce the combustion efficiency.

Regards,

Rajan

That's a double GA, the rest of us, I don't think quite understood what the OP was asking, much less, be able to provide an answer.

We have to get together one day. GA from me if it means anything to you at all. You have 'boiled' it down quiet nicely and I would like to collaborate in some way shape or form after I have concluded/finalized my process, development.

Great reduction of the whole concept, bit late now were I am so talk soon, Ky.

Water either free or sorption (monomolecular) just like sulphur compounds in oils and other hydrocarbon (fossil) fuels are ballasts. They only add to the bulk. Instead of supporting combustion, they retard it just like the role Nitrogen plays in air during combustion. Nitrogen, however is desirable in terrestrial combustions to arrest explosion though not desirable in space ships' propellants. Water cannot even crack at boiler's temperature. It will only turn to steam at the expense of the boiler's enthalpy and escape through the exhaust.

Dulong's combustion stoichiometry and fuel enthapy ΔH₀, formulae explain this better. Refer to them. On electro-cathodic corrosion, water is number one of the troika that make this happen. So corrosion is imminent where heat, water and air are present.

Which technology are U talking about? Nuclear water? U will one day be invited by our extra-terrestrial brothers as a visiting Professor of water fuel!

If you mean the small amount of water thats found in fuel oil, i think you will find it does what all water does when it gets hot, er um S T E A M

Now lets see water and steel that would be er um i know RUST.

Could you explain what it is your asking as i suspect your thinking about somthing completly different to all of us.

What technology are you talkin about.

Sorry my crystal ball is in for an unforseen service due to an unplanned break down. Caused by a random event that i was not aware of in advance

http://cr4.globalspec.com/search/sitesearch?do=show&sort=textmatchrank&srch=fuel%20and%20water%20tech&order=asc

http://cr4.globalspec.com/search/sitesearch?do=show&sort=textmatchrank&srch=water%20and%20fuel&srchobjs=t%2Cbe%2Cc&ts=10&order=asc

http://cr4.globalspec.com/search/sitesearch?do=show&sort=textmatchrank&srch=hho&order=asc

and there was somthing on an engineering site i saw about water and fuel mix but i cannot find it.

Search Results

1. Water/fuel mixing system for a diesel engine - Patent 5904121 NOx emissions from diesel engines are reduced by mixing water in the diesel fuel to reduce combustion temperatures. The water is proportionately mixed into ...
   www.freepatentsonline.com/5904121.html
2. Rudolf Gunnerman: Water-Alcohol-Fuel Emulsion for IC engines: 25 ... But the key ingredient is 0.5% of a secret emulsifier that enables fuel and water to mix --- and stay mixed. Gunnerman financed his work with royalties from ...
   www.rexresearch.com/gunnrman/gunnrman.htm
3. Diesel and water mix - Alternative Fuels Alternate Fuel New Fuel Cleaner burning diesel is formulated by mixing up to 30% water in diesel fuel with an emulsifier that keeps the mix creamy for long durations. ...
   www.alternatefuels.com/A-55.htm
4. FAQ's | Run Your Car on Water2Fuel Kit Water Fuel for All FAQ 1. How can the WaterfuelForAll booster improve my ... Adding a hydrogen-oxygen mix (also called hydroxy) to the fuel system of an ...
   water2fuelkit.com/faq.php
5. A-21 Fuel Gunnerman Fuel Page A pair of men working out of a garage in the shadow of Seattle-Tacoma International Airport say they mix water with fuel from the gas pump to give race-car ...
   www.rbbi.com/folders/fuel/a-21.htm
6. Run car on water mix | Gas Water Fuel Water gas mix that is used when installing an hho water fuel cell to your car or truck. Results can vary depending on type of hydrogen fuel cell used.
   www.gaswaterfuel.com/run-car-on-water-mix/
7. fuel One very crude method of determining the oil content is to mix about a cupful of fuel in a jam jar. Add warm water and mix well by shaking, the water/fuel ...
   www.colinusher.info/Model%20Aircraft/fuel.html
8. Make your own biodiesel: Journey to Forever If you're mixing SVO with petro-diesel you're still using fossil-fuel ...... Dissolve 1 gm of lye (KOH or NaOH) in 1 litre of distilled water to make 0.1% ...
   journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html
9. Water As Motor Fuel Technologically, It is possible to fuel motors with water. ... mix water with petrol fuel · using water as fuel · water 4 fuel; More. ...
   www.squidoo.com/water-as-motor-fuel

Please explain how you would combust water, since it is already oxidized?

split water to its component parts hydrogen and oxygen mix the two ignite and you get water ready to start over again

and no its not oxidised it would have to be rusty water wouldnt it ? for that to happen

Hmm, chemistry not a forte it appears. Rusty water would be water containing oxidized ferric iron. Water is oxidized hydrogen. Electrolytic separation of water into hydrogen gas and oxygen would mean you were combusting hydrogen not water. The question was about combusting water not hydrogen? So my question is how do you combust water? Introductory college chemistry should have negated most of this discourse here as then the answers would have been obvious. This is why it should be illegal to have "Sales" engineers for a title in companies.

Isn't this the same discussion on hydrogen and oxygen enhancement of fuels to improve energy, by electolytic separation of water that has been going on every so often on this forum and is repeatedly debunked as snake oil science. Now instead of vehicle combustion engines we are discussion fuel oil fire engines.

rusty water was a joke

i see what your getting at and perhaps you know the answer ? can water combust.

but if water is made up of H2 and O the only part of water that can burn is the hydrogen oxidised by the water , But you say thats not the answer, so what is?

? hydrogen is exothermically oxidized by reaction with oxygen not water. water is the oxidized enproduct of the reaction

Peter, please see my post #7.

Hydrogen is the oats.

Once the oats are eaten, (ie combined with oxygen) they are no longer edible (able to react) as oats any more. They are now incorporated into a new compound (horsesh*t )-or water molecule of 2 Hydrogen atoms and 1 oxygen atom.

Water Cannot "combust" until it is dissociated back into its component elements.

Others have posted earlier about how this might be accomplished in certain processes.

I hope that this post adds value to the discussion, and would urge all of us to ask "does this add value?" "Does it add knowledge?" before submitting a post.

Of course, if it is off topic, well no value need be added, its just for us to pointlessly discuss...and be amused.

Lacking an irony sarcasm font, one would best post jokes with an appropriate smiley...

Milo