Submerged Heat Exchanger

did you do an environmental study on this, on the effects it will have on the river?

flora and fauna are sensitive to even not significant changes.
Hmmm, someone in the Pedantry depatment has brought the above to my notice.
I've passed it on the English Rose for further scrutiny as we feel it may be a contradiction in terms.
A bill for this investigation will be forwarded shortly.
Del

Thank you Del, you are proving to be a quite competent investigator-cum-administration assistant. Keep this up and you'll so be eligible for the intensive training course prior to promotion to Pedant Third Class.

The correct order for the words in that clause you highlighted is:

flora and fauna are sensitive to not even significant changes.

This is an example of Morecambism, where all the correct words appear, but not necessarily in the right order. It is quite different from Malapropism.

A better way to phrase the idea, which is, of course, technically correct, would be:

flora and fauna are sensitive to changes in water temperature that you may not consider significant.

I will ensure that this excellent catch is recorded in your personnel file.

I knew Del had a file.

Is "file" anything like "rap sheet"?

How do you think he gets out of his cat carrier? =b

You mean this carrier

I'm trying to figure out which direction the cat is to be facing, or if it really matters....

Does it come with chain mail gloves and kevlar sleeves?

It is prabably better with the head in the left hand end...........or for an expert opinion perhaps we should ask Del!!!!!!!!!

I am not sure how they carry him around, he would proabably know what is more comfortable.........haha!

I do believe I have found a clearer version of the ad.

Thanks for that...............did you hear anything?????

It is adjustable Mobi

Let's tighten the screw a little.........and see what happens!!!!!!!

Good of you to volunteer.

Might even solve this one?

Reports of "black panthers" in Australia

At the end of World War II, United States soldiers re-stationed in Australia reportedly brought black panthers as mascots. Within weeks of arriving in Australia, an unreported number of panthers supposedly escaped.^{[citation needed]} Today, black panther sightings are frequently recorded in rural Victoria and New South Wales^[9] and Western Australia. The Australian "phantom panthers" are said to be responsible for the disappearances and deaths of numerous cats, dogs and livestock.

Animal X Natural Mysteries Unit led an investigation into the phantom panther. They discovered that scat and hair found by locals and sent to a lab came back as scat from dogs that had feasted on swamp wallaby, and hair from a domestic cat. In an experiment, the Animal X team sent in leopard scat and hair collected from a private zoo. These samples came back with the same results.

Mine's electric. Even comes with it's own generator and lifetime guarantee. ~Grog

Uses the squirming of the animal to generate power eh?

Well, no, actually. The power is externally applied, much to the cat's apparent displeasure (for my part, I don't see the problem. Maybe she's just being pissy. You know how cats are). What really turns her crank, so to speak, is the novel application for which I've found this assembly: mixing margaritas in a large galvanized bucket. Cats don't like being wet, of course, but all is not lost. She has since found ample compensation in cleaning her coat afterward... ;-)) ~Grog

You do know they are both logged in as you in the other room watching what you post right?

Quick, throw Del down the stairs his thesaurus! ~Grog

As you know, I mentioned it several times I am aware that "my English" is by far not perfect since it is not - as for you - the language learned from parents and used for whole school and life from start to present times. English is for me a language among others (German, French, Russian,...) acquired by late learning (after childhood) with, as you can imagine, a lot of time and efforts.

If after a couple of years at CR4 with a majority of participants born and living in English speaking environments it is the only syntactic error one has to complain about I can be proud of the language I practice!

Thanks to you Del and to you English Rose.

Hi Nick name,

I didn't realise that English is not your first language, so that says loads about your ability.

As Del said, it was gentle teasing - mostly just us playing in our sandpit. No offense meant, it was a slow day....

Thank you, as I wrote, your comments were for me a compliment I took it the right way.

"Slow day" my eye. Admit it, Rosebud, you don't recognize flags featuring fewer than three colors. C'mon, fess up. None of this 'slow day' business, pray. We know they don't let you see daylight very often at your job and that your thermostat at home doesn't work. Is it still full of dust bunnies? ~Grog the Reincarnate

Thank you.

I had found ~800W/m2C some where on the internet but it was not a very scientific site... You are confirming that this number is in the ball park.

Guys, don't worry about the river. Nothing lives in it and the average temperature will not budge.

As for the flow, it is thousands of m3/h.

Thank you.

Your concern for the river is reassuring. Generally a consent is required for such an application for the effects of heat addition to the river as well as the effects that rupture of the water pipes may have, with their corrosion inhibitor etc.

I assume you work in a largish plant given the energy you are trying to dispense with, so presumably you will be doing a FMEA on this project.

"... Nothing lives in it"
I find this assertion worrying on several levels.
a) I doubt very much if it's true, as there are micro organisms and insects which live just about anywhere.
b) If it is true then you should be very worried about your local environment.

Maybe by 'nothing' you mean anything big, obvious and cute. In which case I can assure you with some authority that cats don't live in rivers anyway.
Del

What about catfish - last I heard they preferred rivers.

Thanks to pollution and raised water temperatures, they're evolving at an accelerated rate. They're walking on 4 feet and their scales have morphed into a fur-like sunstance.

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

Is a "cat fish" going to look like..............like this one will shortly look like!!!!!

Note that the LMTD (logarithmic mean temperature difference) will be less than the entering TD of 5K. (Rough guess 3.5K.)

Tornado,

I am just an electrical guy...

Please, can you explain this in more details.

Thank you

Don't use SS, use Monel if budget allows, you'll have much less biofouling growing on your heat exchanger (think biological insulation) and without all the algae and bacteria growing on it, you won't have corrosion pits forming underneath the crud.

You stole my thunder there..........it is truly amazing how many people opt for ss in so many applications.............it can and has been fraught with danger.

Although dearer your super alloys are far superior in many applications, especially in seawater and polluted river water..........I have seen so many problems associated with the use of ss in marine applications........propeller shafts are a good example.

If flow rates are kept below 3m/s another option maybe either 90/10 or 70/30 cupro/ nickel, the advantage of this is its thermal conductivity.........you could design a smaller heat exchanger than one made from ss

Even better (and cheaper!) would be simple copper tubing. MUCH better conductivity and the copper will prevent biological growth. It isn't as erosion resisitant as Monel/Cupro-nickel (same alloy family) but it has higher conductivity and is easier to bend and terminate.

As you said Rorschach the only problem with copper is its low resistance to erosion, and the rest of the benefits............howeve, myself I would opt for the 90/10 or 70/30 cupro/nickel because of the erosion problem with pure copper.

Sounds like an enviro problem to me. You're in Canada, just across the border and your enviro laws aren't that much laxer than the US. We can't even put a decorative paddle wheel in a 2 foot wide wet weather run without an environmental study and a permit.

No matter how little the effect may be, an evironmental impact study is always done........and if a rare or endangered species are found in the area........forget it.

You have to take this serious or your gonna get spanked.

In Canada, the Department of Fisheries and Oceans is "responsible for regulating the impacts of development projects in and around marine and freshwater ecosystems across Canada". If your project falls under regular types of operations in lakes and rivers (dredging, docks, underwater cables, etc.) the you can follow the guidelines of an "operational statement" that DFO has already created. http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/habitat/what-quoi/1-eng.htm

If you don't fall under these OS's, then you need to submit your project for review. You may well be correct that you HE will have no effect, in which case, no problem. But you might need to prove that it has no significant effect. I would suggest you talk to a qualified environmental professional (don't know who that would be - any suggestions?)

I don't see a problem................vessels,from small recreational craft to larger ferries etc that run in inland waterways...........these have either aluminium alloys, mild steel, ss, 90/10 cupro/nickel, or super alloys as keel coolers or heat exchangers, plus propellers and shafting (most props made from one of the bronzes).......all in contact with the water these vessels are floating in........ and.............. then you have plastic boats, wooden hulls, concrete hulls, etc...........and the heat exchanger will no doubt be manufactured from one of these many materials.

When I was working in the steel making plants almost all heat exchangers were 'admiralty brass'. Other alloys were not economical long term.

I have used admiralty brass on many occasions to make marine fittings including valve spindles..................never used it on heat exchangers, except maybe drain coolers...........which is still a heat exchanger.

Most keel coolers and heat exchangers I have worked on have been 90/10 cupro/nickel.

Fresh water is not that bad to work with.

I concur, but, polluted fresh water can be worse than sea water.

How many lakes and rivers are in pristine condition..........if they flow through towns and/or cities.

Here are some of the sacrifial anodes on a river ferry in the US

Thank you Mobi. You have given many good info. GA.

That's a mean trick velcroing the welder's lunch packs to the hull
Del

Velcro? oh, no! he'll need a wrench...

Was that a wrench or wench!!!!

Here sir! At your service.

Shame! Shame! Shame! If nuts were meant to have round corners, manufacturers would have made them with round corners.........Please! Always use the correct size spanners.

Using these monstrosities can be extremely dangerous!!!!!

See I told you so!!!!!

Tee Hee Hee!

It was the first thing to come up on Google Images. It's actually an adjustable spanner not a wrench...I was just humouring our colonial cousins.

I'm sure I have a pipe wrench in my handbag...hrumph...why's that wire stripper still in there...

Listen Felix, behave yourself!

I don't know the environmental impact, thats up to you, but it would be easy to do contact a Marine engine/genset supplier and ask about keel coolers

GA! Nothing like buying from those who solve those problems every days. I will look into it.