Hi Tech Pressure Washer Disarms Improvised Explosive Devices

Very interesting. A similar approach is used in hollow charge against armoured vehicles.

I mean only the principle i.e. generate a special form shock wave. the problem remains IED detection.

In any case this is a tool which could help in many situations and save lives.

A couple friends of mine were on that project, it's pretty intense! Pretty cool actually. Another group here have developed a very successful system for the same use. A microwave system good for up to 100 yards. Supposed to be deployed next sprig.

Very clever design.

Anything that helps to deal with the IED problem is very good news. There were some stories in the past year I think about detection using small flying robots modeled after insects, with chemical/material sensors onboard. The sensor tech is there, I'm not sure why it hasn't reached that application stage.

Small flying robots would need a very efficient motor and fuel supply.

Unless if working with conventional gasoline-motor combination there is nothing near ready to implement.

This task would need long distance surveillance flights to patrol along thousands of miles per day.

So each craft or robot would need a range of 10 to 100 miles.

RHABE

Right, the logistics of protecting every vehicle from IED's that are installed day to day are prohibitive.

We really need a technology for scanning the necessary distance ahead of a vehicle, that could be installed on or associated with each and every one.

Even if you had a "squad" of flying insect size bots with enough power to patrol 50 m ahead of a vehicle, and recharge themselves by return to the vehicle, that might do it? You would need enough robots to keep assessing the roadside ahead while the spent ones are recharging.

This is all very cool stuff, but from where I sit (loosely involved with aerial IED detection), killing IED's isn't the real problem.

Finding them is!! The bad guys learn from every new detection system we deploy, much of it widely advertised. They are now employing technologies, like plastics, that make detection very difficult.

Another problem is that there are multiple groups involved with the same end task, all with their own favorite way of approaching the problem. IMO, there needs to be a centralized steering group to focus detection efforts much finer.

Hooker

so basically what are the methods of IED detection?

In wwII they had tanks with chain whips, that beat the ground, and blew up mines... Are these types of vehicles used on the roadways? If not, why not?

Chris

The reason I ask is because as soon as the article mentioned using water jets against IED's, this is what I thought of. Use a water tanker with a boom and water jet head (and of course, intensifier) and an actuator system that will swing the boom back and forth in a scanning motion, while the water jet penetrates the (unpaved) ground, and explodes IED's.

honestly I don't know much about the situation. This wouldn't be much different than the tanks with twirling chains.

Chris

That's exactly what I thought the article was going to talk about to. But this type of scenario would also have to work on paved roads. What the bad guys sometimes do is dig up directly on paved roads, plant the IED and then carefully recover the road to make it look, at first glance, normal. One must remember that these are usually pretty rough roads, even if paved.

This kind of implant can often be found aerially by the IR signature difference between the IED point and the surrounding untouched tarmac.

I guess they don't often plant IED's off road because there's less guarantee that a vehicle would pass by.

Hooker

okay thanks.

'nuther idea... armored steel wheels (4" to 6" thick armor steel), on spring arms.. with blast barriers front and back, (just above the roadway)

This would allow faster travel. and focus the blast.. and the multi wheel aspect would be somewhat conformal to road crown and valleys. If each wheel weighs 1000 lbs.. that should be sufficient. 2000 would be better. like a big vibro-roller for tarmac surfacing.. but at a distance from the operator. (20 to 30 foot arms. plus blast shields.)

Chris

so I was kinda rushed earlier... here is some better ideas for a containment system.. basically armored plates taht bolt around each wheel, and attach to the frame. It probably doesn't look like it, but each of the frame members is supposed to be huge.. like 12". It should be at least 6" squre tubing.. but very strong and heavy. the armor plating should be 4" thick everywhere... and the wheels too. the bearings will be strong, but detachable.. so that the wheel can blow off, iff the force is too strong, but the armor blast shield should stay fixed. With the angles on the blast shield angled outward, an explosive shockwave would apply force outward, and downward to the shield. If the wheel will detach, or fragment (I've shown it with a grid shape cut into it) then it will absorb more, and expend more of the blast energies. I don't know if the fragmentation is a good idea or not.. but it would probably be worth testing, if the fragmentation is straight up, and part of that energy absorbed by the upper half of the wheel.

I'm showing 7 units, fully independent at the hinge point, and so conformal to the road. I haven't shown connection details, or what type of vehicle would drive it.. but to start, I'm just imagining something with armor, but otherwise just like a farm tractor or tank or whatever. the spring suspension might want to be stronger.. but the basic idea is that only one wheel would be affected per explosive, and that is modular, replaceable, and made to absorb the damage as much as possible, and be back in operation as quick as possible.

Chris

Hi Chris - I've lurked because Hooker has covered it. (GA #6)

But; "input" as requested:

As a lot is "command detonated" - pressure or vibration will have no effect.

In the pressure context - that trigger is not necessarily at the IED

As H said Detection is the big thing, (not a new way to disarm or detonate)

Good link Mr G (GA)

The question on that is; how to make it detect theirs - and not be swamped by ours - in the field environment?

Maybe work on that conundrum Chris?

okay thanks... I have some reading to do obviously. chris

Well, I guess the chain whips would probably work, if you're clearing out a known minefield. But, if you're in a convoy at speed on a "highway", that would be a tad slow. Plus, some of these things are huge and you wouldn't even want to be nearby in a tank if they detonate.

Since most IED's are one-offs, placed randomly (from our perspective), a lot of ground has to be covered quickly. The techniques I'm aware of, and can talk about, range from the visual (image comparison) to all kinds of sensors, from magnetometers (less useful since they now use less metal) to IR to electromagnetic to RF.

Hooker

Some detection tech

a simulation website of related stuff. (see video of hmmwv vs ied)