Motor Cycle Accidents.

Here's a good thread by chrisg288, http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/56684, that ties right into your question.

They're not safe. I used to ride all the time, but gave them up after a couple of accidents. I'd love to ride again, but I'd have to get further away from a populated area than I am now. Just too many bad, distracted drivers on the road. Motorcycle manufacturers will never be able to protect riders from them.

The safest thing you can do is not ride a motorbike.

The very next best thing you can get (and is relatively cheap) is get additional riding training.

My condolences on your friends injury.

After a bad motorcycle accident (2 surgeries in 2 years to heal), I gave up on motorcycle riding. The accident was my fault (I was the only injured party), due to inexperience. That can be corrected, but I also knew that I couldn't control the actions of others on the road. Unfortunately, because of the unprotected nature of motorcycle riding, that would mean further injuries down the road that I couldn't avoid.

That is why my orthopedic surgeon called it a "donor"cycle.

Quote, 'First off, bikes are not dangerous' - WTF, what a statement to make.

I do agree about wearing protective clothing.

If someone has rode for many years and not had an accident a good portion of the credit has to go to 'pure shit luck' along with considerable credit to the rider as well.

You can drive a car or ride a bike for a lifetime and have someone else nail you all too easy. Like the old guy/gal that drives through a crowd for instance.

Russ123 - The motorcycle, as an object, a device, a piece of engineered machinery, is not utilized, driven and sits there, how is it dangerous? If a gun is never used, how is it dangerous? The comment, is as it is literal, your chain saw is not dangerous as a device. ANY device has the Potential to be harmful. Unless it is used by someone, operated by some one, does it's capability to become a useful or harmful tool be determined. That is the context in which I made that statement, I hope that clarifies and that you take no offense.

For the OP, simply understand that certain inventions we utilize for certain accomplishments, a parachute, hand glider, air plane, race car all have elements of risk due to the nature of it's intended use. Risk is an element in life we will all endure successfully or not. We also can choose, to some degree, how much we care to take on. Knowing the potentials for loss is an individual decision in any venture, financial, personal relationships and so on. Risk management is a field on to it's own for that matter and I personally implement that at all possible junctures in life and on a daily basis. I've been rock climbing for over 20 years and I understand the risks, that's a personal decision and build in as much safety as I care.

If someone decides to not wear a helmet, they take on a higher risk. It's pretty simple and down to the wonderful abilities and freedom of personal choice.

Let us carry it to an extreme - an atomic bomb is not dangerous?

Your argument is one I heard for many years back in the days that I rode.

I remember how dangerous helmets were according to some - couldn't hear cars coming from behind etc. Of course, if that person had an accident and became a ward of the state - everyone has the honor of paying for his stupidity.

I understand what you are saying but believe you might be stretching a little bit.

It was a real awakening for me when my front wheel skidded on a pebble, causing a 200cc bike to go down. I was just going about 7 mph. I later determined that I felt much safer on a smaller bike. I enjoyed the Indian 100cc and the Yamahopper 50cc scooter the most, with the latter being my favorite. A light bike is more maneuverable and easier to control and keep upright, for the most part.

There are many items we routinely use that cannot be made safe without totally ruining the function. Case in point; chainsaws are one of the most dangerous tools to operate. You cannot add any type of guarding to the cutting chain without rendering it useless.

A motorcycle is no different than a chainsaw. It takes great training and experience in order to operate safely. You always have to exercise extreme caution while operating, especially when operating in the presence of others. Otherwise you are guaranteed to get injured.

You use a chainsaw while out in public with people, cars & trucks all around?

Two totally different examples.

I am 52yr old and riding two wheeler since 34 yrs. Only once I met with accident; I got slipped due lot of oil on road during 1993 climbing hill at 1800 mtrs altitude. I always ensured that tyres are good and air pressure is as per spec. Most Indians keep air pressure a bit higher and do not maintain required pressure difference of front & rear wheels. This leads to accidents though the driver is very cautious.

If you or your young friend seek someplace safe try the local psyche ward. Safety is the responsibility of everyone most especially yourself, you more than anyone are responsible for your safety. If living in fear is your life then it won't much will it.

I've been riding cycles and scooters since 1956, when I was 16. I had one fall down then, due to inexperience. Since then, I let others make the errors on bikes. I've watched a lot of people go down on the street because they forget they're driving a bike. Here's my rules: Don't overdrive your vision. If you can't stop for dirt, holes, cars, tracks, before you get to them, you broke the rule. If your tires are less than perfect, you broke the rule. Same for brakes and suspension. If someone hits you, you broke the rule: drive like they're out to get you, on purpose or accidentally. Cell phones are the new danger. Wear very bright colors, have lots of reflectors, get their attention with flashing headlights, horns, whatever it takes. If you don't see them notice you, presume the worst. Don't carry passengers. They make the bike handle strangely, slow your reactions. Practice on dirt and mud before you go on the street. Learn what bad traction feels like before you hit that patch of oil or gravel. Watch the road. Never drive over a piece of road you haven't looked at. Drive scared. Really. It's the whole reason you ride anyway, right, for the thrill? I've had many kinds and types of bikes. They were all dangerous, but none can conquer a smart, trained, terrified rider. Drive as if you just HAD that wreck!

Motorcycles are intrinsically less safe than a car. It is obvious. A car provides the occupants with a shell protecting them from minor accidents and in some cases even very major accidents.

A motorcycle lacks this type of protection. The human body is far more fragile then we like to admit. Even falling of a bicycle can have serious consequences with potentially long term health effects.

Motorcycles also tend to be overrepresented in accident statistics, partly because the thrill of riding a motorcycle encourages especially younger riders to take risks.

What sort of basic safety feature do you think a motorcycle can be provided with? The first line of defence is the rider him or herself, after that there is good design in relation to weight and balance, and the rest is engine engineering which is pretty damn good these days and is probably not a factor in accident causation.

Best thing is to be a careful rider, thinking at all times and riding while alert. Wear a helmet and don't speed or take risks. If you can afford it, avoid motorcycles and choose a car instead.

I hope you friend recovers well enough to continue enjoying life to the full.

Thanks to all for your participation in the discussion.I would like to further clarify that my friend was wearing helmet and he was driving at very slow speed due to city traffic in Mumbai. Unfortunately due to rains his bike slipped and he met with accident.

Now, coming back to safety angle is there no solution to this common problem?. I have wild thought of providing two small additional wheels with hinged brackets on either side of the rear wheel of the bike. These wheels in normal condition are not in contact with ground but in case bike tilts on either side they will touch the ground and will not allow bike to fall and save the rider. I do not know if this can be solution but it just wild idea.I was not allowed to ride on any two wheeler by my parents as safety precaution.

Secondly has anyone heard about RSD?. Is it curable or not?. Your comments will be most welcome.

Hi Suresh, My first bike was a little Honda 49 cc and slow with its max. 45km/h. I was 17 and drove it through all weather in Belgium. We have nice days, but plenty of grey, rainy weather, hot sun and moderate but slippery, snowy and icy winters.

Every day I had to use it, because I had nothing else but a bicycle to rely on. This has been a good school for motorized 2 wheel transportation. I fell, slipped, but nothing seriously happened. Also because this little thing did not run always on the road, but on bicycle tracks, away from the traffic. This motorbike was easy to control and with the wide saddle, you felt like one and united. Only speed could separate bike and rider.

The next one was a heavier fast scooter and I ended up everywhere on the deck, next to the road, colliding with cars and trucks, and once I had to ask a driver of a 10 wheeler to move his truck so that I could pull it from underneath. Bruises, scratches, twisted everything but still operational - I am talking about myself at that time. Volume, difference in mass, less protected, less seen makes you vulnerable on the road, especially with distracted drivers in what we call "safer and comfortable cars" Many posters have shared their experiences.

Before I start about RSD, this is what I experienced:

On a 6 lane road with a full line in the middle and 2 emergency lanes on both sides in 2 directions,

on a February morning, freezing cold on a dry road, one small car, parked on that emergency lane, and me alone on the road, collided after the car driver didn't notice me, nor my blinking lights and headlights and crossed the road. I drove my motorbike straight through the back doors, removed the seats and ended on the road where the ambulance picked me up.

Not one scratch, due to my 5 pair of clothes I wore because of the cold.

Clear in mind, but parallized from the back to the toes. They dropped me in a hospital bed and I still hear the doctors say: this one will not make it.

They had to change their minds after 3 weeks and started to do something. I was in the army and the army surgeons wanted me there as soon I could be transported.

To make it short: after a long and painful recovery they promised me a wheel chair life.

It didn't happen.

Somehow, complete stoned and drunk (a different story) - one night I fell 3 times out of my bed - an angry nursing Nun told me this wasn't right.

But the next day I felt testing needles in my toes, something I didn't feel for 6 months.

No permanent wheel chair after underwater therapy. They said again: at 50 you'll be in a wheel chair. I have already 10 years extra.

Non cure- able is relative.

The base of the RSD is important.

I think you need to work with your friend with acupuncture for/and some pain medication: specialists can do wonders with it.

At least it will help you build a resistance to live with it. I am the living proof. Some people feel pain in amputated limbs, removed teeth, in no cut areas, named no'man's land, like the palm of the hand.

Pills doctors are very limited: soul, spirit, will, brains and nerves can be affected differently.

Do not lose hope, time will tell. Warm regards for your friend and yourself for sharing your story.

Hi Dvmdsc, You are great soldier I do not how many more people had met such accidents and recovered.In Mumbai I read daily in news paper about deaths of biker and pillion rider.In one case a cement mixing dumper hit the couple, the lady was crushed to death.Her husband is in hospital with fractured bones. It is very common for bikers to get hit from back and pillion rider is thrown away at distance. Is it possible to provide safety belts like cars so that at least such accidents can be minimised?.

I have been riding Harley's for over 35 years. I have been hit by a car, had many close calls with deer, and laid the bike down a couple of times. A bike is as safe as you make it, if you drive a bike like you drive a car you will not last long. Bikers are much better drivers than car drivers, we look for a way out all the time, we watch for road hazards, and the big problem people on cell phones !!!!. If anything in the past 35 years has put bikers in more danger it is cell phones, texting, and browsing being done in the cars around you. If you want us to not have loud pipes, GET OFF THE PHONE !!!.

You can make a ride more safe by doing all of the following.

1. The right gear in case you do fall. This means the right helmut and clothes.

2. Keep your distance from the car in front of you.

3. Obey all traffic rules.

4. Be very alert, always. When you drive all you must think of is traffic.

5. When you change lanes, look in front in the mirror and behind you in your blind spot.

6. Make sure when overtaking that the person is not going to turn.

7. At a robot when the light is green for you first observe the traffic to your left and right before crossing. This is very important. Also check the oncomming traffic for people who wants to turn.

8. The bike must be in excellent condition.

9. Be sure that you are not in somebody's blindspot. I know this is difficult but when driving next to a car in another lane try at least.

9. Never take chances and drive with your lights on.

10 Be on the lookout for people driving on your tail.

11 Even if you are just driving along, check your mirrors and around you.

12 People driving for a long time starts to be more relaxed while driving. Don't.

Agreed, the bike accident was only incidental to the RSD - could equally well have happened getting out of the bath.

Exactly!! My father broke a leg in the bath. I've never had that serious an injury in 47 years of bike riding.

Hooker

Well said. I think every driver needs to ride a motorcycle to learn how to drive defensively. Riding by bike has made me a much better car driver.

To paraphrase Burt Munroe

you live more on a bike in five minutes than driving a car

"You live more in five minutes on a bike like this going flat out than some people live in a lifetime".Original quote

Hi Hooker,

My purpose of posting this question was not due to injuries caused to my friend. I have many known persons who have met such accidents may be due to their own faults. I understand that thousands of persons loose their lives or meet with accidents through out the world while riding on the two wheelers. It will be more difficult to change the persons than changing the bike by adding safety features which makes it FOOL POOF. As we all are engineers, it was the persons from from our fraternity who invented and developed the Bike. Now I feel only we as engineers can make it more safer. I hope you will kindly agree with me.

Suresh,

Surely you understand design and intended use of this piece of equipment. Bikes come in all shapes, sizes and have different levels of safety. For one small example, from simpleton shoe brakes to ABS. There is only so much engineering one can do before it no longer is a motor bike.

As individuals with freedoms of choice I can either ride a naked old 63 Norton or a 2010 Honda Gold Wing with ABS brakes and Air Bag! If somebody wants to ride a "safer" engineered motorcycle they're out there. Also there is a point where it's no longer classically a "motorcycle"/"Motorbike" its some anomaly of a car.

Plenty of money is spent by motorcycle companies on safety related to their production bikes. From suspension components to braking capabilities and computer controlled everything. There is immense amount of engineering in today's bikes.

Honda knows the distinction from what the consumers want in a motor bike and a car. They're a strong company, as with others, who base their business on that classically designed and valued distinction. This may be why they run the business and engineers build and design the components based on what works for business. All the liability issues have long since been incorporated. You just beat your head against a wall thinking otherwise. You don't have to accept it but that's where reality meets the road. Your not going to change a vast diversity of peoples desires (motorcycle riders) no matter how safe you build a motorcycle! btw I don't believe anything can be made "fool" proof.

If you come up with a way to change human nature, god would like to speak with you. (pun intended and with all due respect)

Hello Suresh,

I'm sorry but I can't agree. I've covered this in another thread but I think it needs repeating.

The basic premise of a motorcycle or motorbike is two wheels, a frame, an engine for propulsion and various other accessories. It is inherently unstable and will not stand up by itself without some outside influence; ie, the operator, or maybe a temporary kick or center stand.

Because of this instability it has a freedom of mobility that is lacking in more stable three or four wheeled vehicles; in other words it has a "roll" capability that is directly controllable (or uncontrollable ) by the operator. This "roll" capability, which is very important and attractive to us aficionados, is exactly what makes motorcycle riding an exhilarating experience, but abuse of which can cause great harm or even death.

Any engineering attempt to make the "roll" capability safer will almost certainly destroy the very reason I ride motorcycles.

All that said, there are alternative versions of vehicles already available that provide more stability without loosing the wind in your face aspect. There are three and four wheeled open vehicles on the market that provide greater stability and I would suggest that those worried about falling over look into them.

Regards, Hooker

Waking up in the morning can be full of danger, you can slip in the shower. Going out of your house you can get in an accident. What you do at work can be full of danger. Eating you may choke, Going to sleep you you can stop breathing. Everything has it's risk. You can ether live your life and be as safe as you can but things happen. If you want a perfectly safe enviroment kill yourself now and save us all from your sniveling.

Oh gee! What to do?

All of your examples border on silly!

You could do the favor for the rest of us as well!

My sympathies to your friend. A bike is very unstable, and the slower you go, the less stable it is. Note that many of the commentators here said that their accidents happened while traveling very near walking speed!

I feel great sympathy for the young fellow who has to get to work and all he can afford is a motorcycle. I have almost none for the idiot who speeds and weaves in and out of traffic for no good reason. A motorcycle sorts out the stupid from the good damned quick!

Drive paranoid. It really is a good survival technique!

NO machine in this world is dangerous. Only the operator gives it a level of danger.

After going through so many posts can I come to conclusion that I am simply banging my head on the wall. Let many young persons die or break their bones by ridding on this moving coffin.

NO my friend, you are not just banging your head against a wall.You are trying to improve the world. There was a person that developed the rounded pavement contact tires for the motorcycles. And that made them safer. Disc brakes were adapted to motorcycles, and that made them safer.Automobiles were 100 years old before high level brake lights became standard, and that made autos safer.

Do not despair. Think evolution, rather than revolution.

Stay well.

Suresh,

We all bang our heads against the wall at times. I certainly do it often enough.

It is admirable to want to help prevent injury or death but, IMO, the first step is in education and training to help recognize potential problems. Then, again IMO, it should be the responsibility of the operator to know the safe operation of the vehicle.

That said, there are add-ons available to help motorcyclists. For example, I have personally seen stability wheels available for Gold Wing and Harley Davidson motorcycles. These wheels automatically extend as outriggers alongside the rear wheel when the bike slows below a certain speed.

That likely wouldn't have helped your young friend but it sure helps older folks (like me) who have slow speed balance problems. It is an expensive option, though.

Hooker