Free Electricity?

Depends which way round you put the diode .

Put the diode as you like ,it doesn't make any difference.

CR4Admin

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Abuse/Attack:

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Why not install dimmers? There is a wide variety of UL-approved dimmers that can be used to replace wall switches for household lighting. They provide better control of the light output so you can go as dim or as bright as you want, they extend the lifespans of the lamps, and they don't cause filament notching which you would get with the direct current from a diode.

With a diode you would cut the power to the lamps in half so the lamps would always be fairly dim and reddish. And the only effect you'd see in the metering is the reduced power usage. There wouldn't be any 'free electricity'.

Then,with no question,you save 50% of the electricity cost.

It's not that simple.

The voltage would be effectively halved, but so would the current^[1].

Power = voltage * current, so that would be 25% of the original power.

[1] It's not that simple, either! Because the filaments will be cooler, their resistance will be less, which will push the current figure (and hence the power) back up a bit.

The power consumed will be 50% not 25% Pilgrim.

The filament has no time to cool up in half mains cycle.

Cool up? Interesting.

So you claim that the filament will be as hot as if it were running on full voltage? Will it, therefore, be just as bright as on full voltage? If so, this is indeed a miraculous discovery, and will save vast amounts of power.

The filament resistance will not change much if it is half cycle or full cycle ,only about 5% change.

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" Because the filaments will be cooler, their resistance will be less, which will push the current figure (and hence the power)".

That is completely wrong.

If the filament Resistance will be little cooler, then its resistance will be higher and the current will be less and hence less power consumed.

So i can say you will save about 55% of your electricity cost.

CR4Admin

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Have you ever heard of the temperature coefficient of resistance of a metal? Do you know the meaning of the words?

For almost all metals, the figure is positive, which means the hotter the metal, the higher the resistance. Here's a table of values for some metals:

TEMPERATURE COEFFICIENTS OF RESISTANCE, AT 20 DEGREES C
Material Element/Alloy "alpha" per degree Celsius
==========================================================
Nickel -------- Element --------------- 0.005866
Iron ---------- Element --------------- 0.005671
Molybdenum ---- Element --------------- 0.004579
Tungsten ------ Element --------------- 0.004403
Aluminum ------ Element --------------- 0.004308
Copper -------- Element --------------- 0.004041
Silver -------- Element --------------- 0.003819
Platinum ------ Element --------------- 0.003729
Gold ---------- Element --------------- 0.003715
Zinc ---------- Element --------------- 0.003847
Steel* --------- Alloy ---------------- 0.003
Nichrome ------- Alloy ---------------- 0.00017
Nichrome V ----- Alloy ---------------- 0.00013
Manganin ------- Alloy ------------ +/- 0.000015
Constantan ----- Alloy --------------- -0.000074

What do you think lamp filaments are made of?

Measure the temperature of the filament at half cycle and full cycle , compare the filament resistance according to your temperature coefficient table you have and you will find that the resistance change only 5%.

We used to learn from you in the past, now the time to learn from us.

Thanks.

CR4Admin

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Are you the ignorant Guest who thinks that the lower temperature filament will have a higher resistance, or the one who is ignoring facts to defend their fellow idiot?

I corrected you that the the filament resistance increases as the temperature rises.

Review your post.

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Ignorance be damned - I stated from the first that the resistance increases with temperature.

If you deny that I stated this then you are lying. Knowingly telling untruths is a sin in most cultures. How about yours?

Oh, and why do you call me a pilgrim? Do you know what the word means?

Good answer, Paulusgnome, I've measured the characteristics low voltage filament lamps, and have found similar results:

Compare between the filament Resistance at 100V and 200v (not with the filament cold resistance value) and the percentage change.

CR4Admin

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Diode would not get you free electricity for sure as the title says.

However, it will be interesting if somebody could tell us which way diode be used to reduce electric consumption.

Also why in this day and age, all filament lamps are being used.

In USA they are discontinuing manufacture of Incandescent bulbs--filament lamp.

Tell us what other Filament lamps you are referring to.

However, it will be interesting if somebody could tell us which way diode be used to reduce electric consumption.

It does not matter for a single diode and a filament lamp load when operating off a single phase alternating current supply.

Also why in this day and age, all filament lamps are being used.

See previous discussions on CR4 regarding the phasing out of filament lamps, and energy saving lamps (including their advantages, disadvantages and weaknesses compared to filament lamps).

In USA they are discontinuing manufacture of Incandescent bulbs--filament lamp.

The same thing is happening down here.

The interesting bit is "what effect will it have on the metering" I'll admit I don't know.

The interesting bit is "what effect will it have on the metering" I'll admit I don't know.

Modern meters can measure non-linear and capacitive loads just fine. Gone are the days when you could connect a highly capacitive load up and run the meter backwards.

If you live in 220V mains supply area, you need for the whole house a 500v/15A diode or better.

I hope this information helps you.

CR4Admin

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how much I will save in metering after this 500V -15 amp diode is inserted in the mains

I told you, you will save about 55% of your electricity cost,but your lamps will be dimmed to 50%.

You got the idea?

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They sell little diode disks called "Bulb Savers" you can put in under your lamp base that do just that. They clearly state that you cut the power used by the lamp by roughly 30%, and you cut the light output by 40%. The reason I use them is because the lamps last almost forever. So I start out with a lamp higher than the brightness I need, put in the Bulb Saver disk and get the lower output but significantly increased lamp life.

Article on the concept.

Yes,those Bulb Savers are phase controlled semiconductor with less flickering than single diode but it is more expensive than single diode and can't be used for the whole house .

Also single diode is life time warranty, it will not fail.

I hope this information helps you.

CR4Admin

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No they are not "phase controlled" anything, they are nothing more than a simple diode that goes in the base of the lamp holder, they would act just exactly as the OP queried on.

In theory, the "whole house" diode issue is a red herring anyway, you cannot do that and expect to operate anything OTHER than resistive loads.

I think you are new electrician and you don't what is the difference between RMS and AVERAGE values or you need more education , the bulb light depends on the voltage average value not rms value.

What fire risk you talking about?

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What fire risk you talking about pilgrim ?

The potential fire risk is due to a number of factors

- Incorrectly sized diode for the application

- Diode poorly terminated to building wiring

- Diode termination to building wiring loosening over time

- Voltage spikes damaging diode

- Hot or overheating diode in contact with or near flammable building material

- Loose connection potentially causing sparks in contact with or near flammable building material

- Exposed diode leads, terminations, etc in contact with or near flammable building material

Not to mention the possible shock hazard.

We can debate the specific values of power reduction VS light reduction (that a slight voltage reduction causes a larger light reduction), but there are very good reasons why placing a diode in series with the single phase lighting circuits is not done or generally allowed in electrical wiring codes & standards, especially when an electrically unqualified person (homeowner) is thinking of making the modification in the switchboard or main building wiring (I don't know what the American codes and regulations have to say on the matter). That is what dimmer switches are for.

This is only a time consuming false stories.

Use the right diode, if even the diode fails to short circuit nothing happens, you just go back to full brightness.

The current through the diode is zero crossing with no any spikes.

CR4Admin

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I think it is more convenient to rename this thread from "Free Electricity" to "The Pilgrims" tread.

Mr. Pilgrimage,

Please deliver the correct diode to Mr. Guest. Please wire it correctly, including proper termination and insulation. Please school Mr. Guest on proper usage. Please make sure that all other appliances that he plugs into this now half rectified power supply work properly, including motors and computers.

Once you have done this, please come back to this thread and notify us so that we will all sleep better knowing that Mr. Guest has properly added a diode to his house wiring. We will then know, since you have done this, that it has been done by a reputable pilgrim. We will then know that it has been done properly and with all regards for the safety of Mr. Guest.

In the mean time, please don't berate any of us for warning Mr. Guest. We do this only for his safety.

Thank you,

a non-pilgrim.

You didn't understand his question,his concern only about the light .

Read his question carefully.

CR4Admin

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I am sorry but I do not agree with any of your comments in post #24.

As an electrical engineer, former electrical safety technician and user of diodes all my concerns in post #23 are valid from an electrical and/or electrical code point of view (and in some cases personal experience).

Incorrect installation of a diode in this specific application is a dangerous fire hazard waiting to happen, and even if the diode was guaranteed to fail safely to a short or open-circuit (which there is no guarantee as it is a non-linear device) then the other fire hazard concerns still stand.

The series diode just isn't worth it when there are so many other better, safer and non-house-insurance-voiding ways to dim the light level in a home.

I myself am fond of dimmers. I've known Jack of all Trades around CR4 for a good while now, and inclined to trust his(your) take on the issue.

I certainly know about zip as far as diodes are concerned. Mostly I used Variacs which will dim, or boost some, as opposed to dimmers, which only lower voltage.

When dealing with minimums of 250 watt needs, the variac was superior over any dimmers for the sound department, as maxed dimmers would hum.

Their are voids in some of my experiences, for I did not train or do much of anything residential. Plus I haven't worked as a set electrician for over 10 years.

The mechanical dimmer does seem to my remember to get warm, and I would expect some resistance out of it, itself.

The one in the bedroom is worn out, and I need to pull it out of the wall to check what is up with it, as it could be becoming a fire hazard. Could be a can of air is all I really need after I pull the plate.

Far as places to put dimmers in a home, putting one in the bedroom is a good place, if you are only going to put one in a home.

In other places you just use lower wattage bulbs.

As said, I trust Jack of all Trades on this one.

Caution , no one should share with a post in this thread otherwise get stamped with "pilgrim".

Why the "Guest" or "Not Guest" issue concerns you much?

What is the difference for you?

CR4Admin

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You are an unwelcome Guest.

I'M wondering why all those pilgrims against the Guest and forming a gang against him.

I sport him strongly , he gave valuable information and he didn't stamp me "pilgrim"

" ... all those pilgrims against the Guest ... " - what is all this about "pilgrims"? Do you know? If so, please explain it for the rest of us.

Guests sound like a couple of kids playing - teenyboppers.

This is the only forum I use that guests can post without creating an account. I agree with JohnDG.

If the OP has to ask this I hope they get someone that has some idea of what they are doing to make any changes for them.

So far I have counted, and reported, 13 times in which this obnoxiously stupid guest has inappropriately insulted others.

Obviously, you insulted the guest in very impolite way without any reasonable reason.

So far on this thread, CR4 Admin has edited 15 posts, all by one Guest or another, and in every case because the posts were deemed to be attacks on other users (contrary to the rules of posting on CR4).

Are you suggesting that the CR4 administrators are wrong?

If so, you clearly have a fundamental disagreement with the site administration. The obvious solution is that you leave CR4, permanently. You have nothing to offer in mitigation. As I have said before, you are unwelcome.