Vehicle Control

How would people text?

Seriously, I have to say that after being used to manual steering and brakes, it took me a while to get used to power steering and brakes. With the sensitivity involved with a joystick, I think people would be all over the place. Not to mention squirmy little kids in the car. A little kick or bump could send cars careening out of control. I'll stick with the steering wheel for now.

Not to mention, if you are using the joystick for braking also, in the event of an impending crash, the typical person wouldn't bring the joystick to the center to stop, but would slam it all the way back instinctively, throwing the car in reverse.

After you master this in Drivers' Ed, would they automatically thrown in a pilot's license when you graduate?

Mercedes did a concept car like this a while ago. Drive by wire. I am sure others have as well.

Personally, I prefer a side stick on the right and a throttle on the left with afterburner.

...like on an F-16, you mean. Fly them much?

I remember GM making a very futuristic concept car in the 60's that had a knob stick control. The stick only tilted forward and back for accelerate and brake. The palm size knob on top of the stick twisted for the steering. The other unique thing about this control was that it was between the two front seats so either occupant could be the driver.

Certainly new control technology approaches can be done today. But except for ambulatory paraplegics, I don't see much of an advantage for putting all vehicle controls in one hand.

Let's not forget the suicide knob. They called it that for a reason.

There is a joystick listed on this site:

http://www.fordmobilitymotoring.com/steeringDevice.mob

fly by wire is already in use on fork lift trucks

and cars

now the problem is they both occasionally fail the was one famous one at a Paris air show where the plane crashed into the trees

and on the fork lift trucks i worked on also had steering failures the trucks would for no reason Vere off course

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=fly+by+wire+failure+on+plane+at+paris+air+show&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-gb:IE-SearchBox&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGLT_en&redir_esc=&ei=-BO6TKKEE5HZ4gaxx5XpDQ

most modern cars accelerator's are now fly by wire

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=fly+by+wire+failures&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-gb:IE-SearchBox&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGLT_en&redir_esc=&ei=kxO6TNerAciJ4ga3jfDYDQ

That crash at the Paris air show was due to the Indian Airlines pilots not knowing how to properly control their aircraft which was below the minimum flight parameters for the area at the time. A320's aren't a highly manoeuverable aircraft especially at 50 feet!

The pilot was originaly blamed to cover the problems in the planes design.

http://www.crashdehabsheim.net/CRenglish%20phot.pdf

other fly by wire crashes caused by computer cascade failures

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1431911/airbus-crash-finger-flight-computers

indian fighter downed by fly by wire fault

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/07/23/330051/fly-by-wire-failure-downed-indian-su-30mki.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1205129/Why-ARE-planes-falling-sky-A-spate-disastrous-crashes-reveals-terrifying-common-flaw-.html

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6446268.ece

not quite the same but failures on cars

Wait a minute!

There's a helluva difference between "fly-by-wire" and using a joystick to control the vehicle.

What are we talking about here?

.

The term should be "Drive-by-wire". Unless you are hitting a hump in the road at high speed.

You miss my point, joystick or "drive by wire"? They are not the same.

You've never flown a plane with joystick and cable control?

What happens if someone pushes it to the left stop at 80MPH on the freeway?

"You've never flown a plane with joystick and cable control? What happens if someone pushes it to the left stop at 80MPH on the freeway?"

The left wing drops. ;-)

If the joystick is electronic, as it most likely would have to be, the software could do anything you wanted to do. For instance, the degree of wheel turn could be mapped so that it has less angular turning when at a higher vehicle speed. That is, change the sensitivity of the stick.

If it is an active stick, then you could just make it harder to move based on speed. Or a combination of both force and sensitivity.

If the stick was not electronic, then you could have a variable power steering assist which is speed dependent so that progressively more force is required at higher speeds.

Sorry, showing my age. Maybe "stick and rudder" control will ring a bell. Ain't no fly by wire here.

I think I've steered us off course.

Got lots of time in sail planes with those controls. ;-)

Which is about the opposite of 'regular ground vehicle steering' characteristics.

But that aside; joysticks are more 'trend adjusters' than 'absolute'. Sure there are techniques to improve accuracy, like anchoring elbows or forearm against thigh, when it gets bumpy, however it's not really the approach for separation surety at the distances of feet and inches in traffic.

Perhaps this is why (most) aircraft are steered by a centrally fixed rudder bar (or a wheel) when taxing and parking.

And oddly all above applies to excavators - and you wouldn't want to meet one of those doing 60 mph, steering by 'trend adjustment'.

Or similarly;

more like a drive-by assault than a drive-by-wire..

AH, I've seen your replies as of late. A simple question. Would you be able to feel the road with a joystick, the way you feel it with a steering wheel? Be honest.

No.

Well, yes, if it has active feedback. ;-)

the concept joystick control or fly by wire or drive by wire are all the same.

instead of direct conection between your control and the driven parts you input into a joystick that can be any shape and the joystick control the signal sent to the servos that are now on the steering,brakes,gears,and throttle

in electronic terms joystick and drive by wire are the same

but in aviation terms it gets confusing because joystick has traditionaly meant the flight control thing in front of you, The op isnt talking about this kind of joystick.

the nain danger on a vehicle is when and trust me it will go out of control you have miiliseconds in heavy traffic to try and do somthing about it.

but when i have been on the Atlet LLOP (low level order picker) when they vere off you have no control whatsoever and at 8mph surrounded by steel racking its very scary

Sorry, but you are completely wrong. A joystick does NOT mean "fly-by-wire.

I have flown airplanes with a joystick which is connected directly to the aircraft control surfaces by cables, not servos.

And, how do you know what the OP is talking about? Have you communicated with him directly?

I can not see this being a viable option in a car that everyone drives. Myself included. I need my right foot on the gas, left on the clutch, right hand on the stick and left hand on the wheel. The road I live on has many right and left handers and I can not picture it any other way. A joystick and I'd be down the drop off on the right, or off in the river on the left. No way of power sliding with a joy stick.

thought about it? yes. Implemented it? no.

in a recent design I suggest a version of steering-joystick.. with a push forward and back for throttle/brake and turn for steering.

chris

I don't what you guys are arguing about. I fly airplanes all the time......and they all have steering wheels. The controls are molded plastic and serve no purpose whatsoever. A five minute flight costs a quarter. A couple of bucks in quarters can keep me flying until the wife finishes her shopping.

A quarter ? when was the last time you played in an arcade.just kidding. But try driving a race car simulator in an arcade,you feel the bumps in the road force against the steering wheel and the the feeling of a puckered up balloon knot in the seat of the pants.If they can can mimic this in a game why not in an automobile. Heavy equipment has been using joy stick for years but move as fast as you can walk at a fast pace,as well as hi reach scissor lifts and bucket trucks that utility company's use for over head work.Some are electric and some are hydraulic control . I would go with the game technology.

auto control is seat of pants and positon of steering wheel dependent, you cannot input by stick fast enough to accuratly control a car, the joystick in planes and on boats work well for loose aproximation but the sense of input with a steering wheel necisary to control a car is used in auto racing for this simple reason, the feedback in a drift cannot be sensed through fly by wire. I don't want a computer controlling my sense of control anymore then is already done with abs and skid control, power steering has worked very well for decades with hydraulics why do we need to replace it with electrics, the level of safety isn't there.
Mitch, ret peug mech

We certainly do not need to switch over to a joystick or any other form of control interface for an automobile. Also as others here have pointed out here, fly by wire with mechanical feedback can provide identical information. But you imply an interesting idea to me.

By separating the control of different systems of a car to different limbs of the body, do we engage more of the brain to control the vehicle. Certainly by taking separate feedback paths to the brain there is less ambiguity as to what each of these systems is doing. In a racing venue this can mean the difference between faster times through a circuit.

I do not think joysticks will work effectively in automobiles. If you are holding onto the joystick and want to slow or stop, you will pull back on the stick. But the inertia of your body will push the stick forward, releasing the brakes. Same for hard acceleration, natural force of being pushed into the back of the seat,will apply the brakes, causing you to again accelerate.

With the upper body of the driver free to move, it does not seem practical

Turning again produces offsetting movements.

And as for me, what happens when I forget what I am driving, and pull the "shift" lever back for second gear?