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Anonymous Poster

Magnetism Question

10/26/2010 8:55 PM

I have a mains transformer with turns ratio 1:1

I connect the primary side to the AC mains supply through a small resistor in series.

I passed through the secondary a 1 amp DC current.

I expected to see through the primary also a 1 amp DC current according the law which says the sum of the mmf's must equal to zero (NI=NI)

But unfortunately the current in the primary is sinusoidal and not 1 amp DC.

Can one explain why the law is not valid in this case .

Romeo - Italy

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#1

Re: Magnetism Question

10/26/2010 9:23 PM

There is no way to get any DC out of your array. The only thing you can do is increase the DC and smoke up the secondary. Transformers don't work with real smooth DC. Only DC pulses stand a chance.

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#3
In reply to #1

Re: Magnetism Question

10/26/2010 9:31 PM

Thanks,but the secondary DC amp is limited to 1 amp DC via a limiting resistor , so no heat is generated.

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#12
In reply to #3

Re: Magnetism Question

10/28/2010 1:10 PM

So? It still won't work.

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#2

Re: Magnetism Question

10/26/2010 9:27 PM

The steady DC does not change, and therefore induces no current in the other winding. (Except at the moments when it is connected and disconnected.)

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Anonymous Poster
#5
In reply to #2

Re: Magnetism Question

10/26/2010 9:36 PM

Thanks, but according to Amper's law for magnetism the sum of mmf's must be zero(NI=NI),so 1 amp DC must flow through the primary.

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#13
In reply to #5

Re: Magnetism Question

10/28/2010 1:11 PM

Codswallop.

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#4

Re: Magnetism Question

10/26/2010 9:32 PM

This maybe just a semantics difference between English and Italian but there is nothing wrong when one uses the appropriate law correctly. So you are either using the wrong law or you are using it incorrectly. The physical laws reflect a mathematical understanding of how our universe works.

The law you should be using is Faraday's law of induction:

|Ε|=N|dΦ/dt|

Ε≡ Electromagnetic force (volts)

N≡ number of identical loops

Φ≡ Magnetic flux (webers)

t≡ time (seconds)

So if the magnetic field does not change with time, then no voltage appears across a load and therefore no current.

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#6

Re: Magnetism Question

10/26/2010 9:46 PM

Dear guest,

Transformers require there to be fluctuation in the current/voltage applied so that there is change in the magnetic flux in the transformer core to then induce a current/voltage in the other winding.

Applying DC to a transformer causes as steady state current and a steady state flux which will not induce a voltage or current in the other winding.

Thus on the primary, you will only see the result of the initial mains ac that you have already connected.

There are other complex items that might need to be considered if both excitations were AC relating to phase, frequency and flux density in the transformer iron, but they are not of consequence in the example you have described.

This is one reason why 1:1 transformers are used. They can provide DC isolation while allowing the AC power to pass.

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#7

Re: Magnetism Question

10/27/2010 7:25 AM

Tornado, look! A fence post!

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#8

Re: Magnetism Question

10/27/2010 9:36 AM

Since you are passing 1 amp DC through secondary it will be not reflected on primary in terms of voltage, But if you measure the output on the secondary coil with CRO you find AC output that is riding on DC voltage, that is due to DC drop According to ohms law.

If you measure the AC current on primary coil you will observe an upward drift in it after passing that 1 AMP or more DC in secondary, This happen due to magnetic saturation of core. And as the saturation is increased by passing more and more current in secondary Its AC output voltage will go down.

So simply speaking, passing DC in secondary will increase primary AC current and will decrease secondary AC voltage.

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Anonymous Poster
#9
In reply to #8

Re: Magnetism Question

10/27/2010 10:56 AM

Yes I'm agree with you , but why the relation (NI)p=(NI)s is not valid in this case ?

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Magnetism Question

10/27/2010 11:26 AM

You are trying to induce a voltage from the secondary coil to the primary coil. So you must use Faraday's Law of Induction that I cited above and not Ampere's law. Maxwell folded all of the electro-magnetic laws into one set of three dimensional, cryptic but accurate equations.

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#11

Re: Magnetism Question

10/28/2010 7:49 AM

A transformer will not transform DC voltage under any circumstance. When you connect a transformer primary to a DC source the transformer will attempt to do what you expect, but as the core saturates you will get no more out. So the only output you can expect is a single DC pulse. As the core saturates the transformer primary looks to the main like a short circuit. If your main is DC you will need to use something other than a transformer. If your main is AC, the output of your transformer will be AC.

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