Bizarre Tire Blow-Out

I'd say it failed where the steel belts were joined together. Maybe one of those rocks struck at the joint and caused it to fail. Take it back to the tire store.

Google "radial tire construction" to see how they are made.

I just reprimanded you for being a grouch, in another thread... but we'll keep that discussion seperate :)

Yes, I considered it being the point where the steel belts joined, but it wouldn't seem to make sense to join them in a perfectly straight line across the tire.

That's OK, I can take it. I know I'm an intolerant AH sometimes. It's just that I have no use for lazy people.

I think you'll find that they do butt the steel belts together when making the tire. The sidewalls are joined on the bias, but they're not as rigid as the steel.

Surly you've seen the Discount Tire commercial where the old lady throws the tire through the plate glass window.

Ask the tire guy. Good luck.

Intolerant AH? Oh, come on. I wouldn't say that. I was thinking more like grumpy curmudgeon.

AH??? You mean Anonymous Hero, or something more sinister?

I hope for my sake it is something else. ;-)

Not to worry: I can rate you any thing that your heart desires. How about Draconian?

Much more sinister. Anonymous Hero doesn't yell at people like I do.

He's more reserved.

At last! You sound like you know from experience, how a tire is made. Was hoping someone here would fit that description.

GA to you. I think you hit the nail on the head.

Makes sense to me. It's funny... if I had trouble with my hot air balloon, I could probably find a hot air balloon assembly worker on CR4 someplace

Okay, that's great information. I will have to do some investigation and interrogation and see if she may have backed up onto (driver side rear) something at some point in the past. Yes, something blunt and narrow and tall would be needed.

Yet another very knowledgeable person. I have learned more about tire construction in the last few hour's, than in mt lifetime. When I go out and buy tires for my vehicles, I try to do my home work first. The manufactures website will tell you what they want you hear. Some forums will list what whet wrong and no went right. In the end, I have to rely on my mechanic, as well as the distributors and installers. After having a similar incident several years back. I do give tires their do, as I wish to get to where I am going, and dying usually ruins my day.

As you know about tires, than I. And your explanation is very informative. Could I ask you, what brand or manufacturer would you suggest, based upon your knowledge and experience I know that this is not too be an endorsement of any kind. It is a question about quality and who still uses the critical hand method. Thanks

I can't be of great help, other than to say that virtually all of the well-known manufacturers are capable of producing very good tires for various purposes. The most difficult to produce, and the ones have the largest amount of hand labor are the high speed rated tires. They all suffer from very short tread life, however, because they use soft compounds, for good handling.

Probably Consumer Reports is as good a guide as any -- they are one of the few that actually measures things like rolling resistance, for example. If you look at the internet tire sites, you'll find a lot of conflicting opinions of various tires (some people will never buy another Michelin, others will never buy anything but...)

Even the "trade" tires (Dayton is one of Bridgestone's brands, for example) that can be made in more automated fashion are pretty good, and probably a good value -- and I don't think there is any evidence that they have catastrophic failures any more often than the main name brands do. The differences might show up on a tire uniformity optimizer machine in a tire plant, but be undetectable to the average driver. The original equipment tires are generally built to the highest uniformity standards, because car manufacturers want happy customers, and have leverage over the tire manufacturers.

Some people are prone to dissing one brand or another, based on one set of tires, often without knowing anything about the alternatives. High performance tires have very short tread life. If a customer is unaware of this, and then faced with having to replace Pirellis at 8,000 miles, may say "I'll never buy Pirellis again!"

Every tire is a compromise. Consumer Reports is probably the best place for ratings based on real data.

Thanks for the reply. I take any knowledge/ information that I can get

Go to Tire Rack.

They have reviews and lots of brands to compare with. They also have the cheapest prices I have found and will ship either to your door, your favorite shop, or a local shop that acts as a Tire Rack outlet at cheap prices.

Highly recommended!

Highly recommended!

Likewise.

Here's a construction link.

http://www.etyres.co.uk/tyre-construction


In my youth I worked at a tyre casing sorting yard.. grading used tyres as to there suitability for remoulding...I've never seen such a failure before.
The steel belt can however break with constant flexing ...you could usually see an external ripple on the tread or inside indicating the point of failure and feel the break point ....when pressing down with your thumbs...as an internal rasp as the broken ends passed each other.


http://www.epinions.com/review/Goodyear_Wrangler_ST_Truck_SUV_Tire/content_261647142532

I just googled alot of pictures looking for one similar to yours with an explanation. Didn't find exactly the same but did find quite a few that were caused by low tire pressure. The similarity to yours is the sidewall is split almost to the rim, it could be that the split started on your sidewall and followed a flaw across the tread.

Many people don't understand how low pressure can cause a blowout; after all blowouts are high pressure explosions right? As it was explained to me low pressure in a tire allows excessive flexing as the tire rolls and the bulge moves around the rubber. As the rubber flexes it causes internal friction and stretching heating up the rubber. This also heats the air inside the tire expanding it but because the rubber is warm and soft it continues to flex even with slightly higher pressure. This eventually results in a blowout.

You say it happened on a dirt road, the rocks and bumps would cause extra flexing in the tire as it absorbs the shocks and uneven surface. How long had you been on that road? Did you find any nails or other holes in the tire that would have caused a low pressure situation?

Low tire pressure blow-outs usually occur when driving fast on a low tire because faster speed means higher rpm of the tire and more flexing, your low speed does not support my theory unless you were driving faster on a paved road just prior to taking the dirt.

Drew

Just drove about 30 miles on a somewhat rocky dirt road. Never went faster than 20 MPH for the entire day. Temperature was in the 70's. This vehicle has sensors in the tires that tell you when the pressure was not correct. That particular tire had been low, the day before, as I was preparing for the trip. But it was only down to 26 psi. I pumped it back up to 32 psi. We drove about 100 miles at highway speeds that morning, then the 30 miles of slow speed dirt road. Nothing extreme. Hit no major holes or rocks that I didn't ease over at 2 MPH. And in the area where it happened, it was a very nice smooth dirt road for at least the 1/2 mile that I could see behind me.

I also read about the low pressure blow outs. But I don't think the 26 psi from the day before, would be considered excessively & dangerously low, when 32 is recommended pressure.

I also have seen no photos that showed this particular type of blow out. Your suggestion doesn't take into account the steel cords that are severed... that should not have failed simply because the sidewall was split. Unless it was in exactly the same spot that has a butt weld of the "steel belt", as lynlynch suggests; and that weld was faulty, all the way across. Sounds like an unlikely combination of events, but....

Of course, I'll take it to the tire shop... but I find this highly unusual, and thought you guys and gals would enjoy having a go at this mystery.

The tyre pressures you mention - 26 psi and 32 psi - are they from the vehicle manufacturer or the tyre suppliers? I would suggest running your next set of tyres at the maximum pressures marked on the sidewalls. My local supplier recommends that practice for CARS, it gives better mileage, a slightly firmer ride and longer lasting tyres. Just be sure to get them rotated each 5-8,000 miles (10,000Km). All this on 'budget' tyres too !!

The tires are original with the vehicle. The 32 psi is the pressure that makes the automatic sensors and the read-out on the dashboard happy. So I assume that is the pressure listed on the vehicle, not the max pressure of the tires.

This is my girlfriends SUV, so i'm not sure of all the details, like what is printed on the vehicle.

Made in China is my guess - and don't expect a refund.

It should also be in the owner's manual.

If you remember, the Ford Explorers were having these issues a while ago. Here is the wiki on it. Firestone blamed Ford for the low tire pressure and Ford blamed Firestone for the tread separation. They fixed the problem by Firestone and Goodyear putting an extra liner inside of the tires. It sounds like the same issue (26 psi in a tire when 35 is recommended) that the OP is having.

GA

Car tyres do not just have a single recommended pressure for any vehicle, they have at least two, sometimes more, depending upon the load in the vehicle at the time.

How was your vehicle loaded??? Also the placing of the load is important.

Checking the tyre temperatures is even more important than the pre4ssures.....too hot requires more pressure.....and a cooling period....

Car tyres do not just have a single recommended pressure for any vehicle, they have at least two, sometimes more, depending upon the load in the vehicle at the time.

How was your vehicle loaded??? Also the placing of the load is important.

Checking the tyre temperatures is even more important than the pressures.....too hot requires more pressure.....and a cooling period....

I had to give you a GA, no way round it, yours was a great post!! Very accurate and correct.

It would help a lot of people each year if they read and understood (and practised!) what you wrote here!!

I personally am sure that at some point in its life, this tyre was "overstressed heat wise due to being run with not enough air pressure for the load of the car!"

Whether that was on the day in question or before is impossible to say.....but I have seen similar damage on caravan tyres. It is possible of course that it was over heated AND a particular rock gave it one hell of a blow at that point. Only a tyre company could possibly give more details out.......

Getting out and checking the tyre temperatures with the back of the hand after the first 10 miles or so is a good idea. They should never get warmer than your hand under any condition of driving, if they are, you need either more air pressure or less load......no way around that!! Running overloaded cannot be recommended, I have doe it, but always with much higher (temporary) pressures than normal.....

Its always best to run car tyres at the absolute maximum pressure allowed by the manufacturer for a fully loaded vehicle, then there is no need to think about blowing them up when a load is added.....(as they they really need to be blown up BEFORE the load is loaded! And who does that?).

There is a lot of "clap-trap" spoken from people who have never practiced this (I have been doing it for far more than 40 years!) about "wearing the middle of the tyre" out first. Well that has NEVER happened to me with many cars and many tyres.

The only effects that I have noticed over the years is an extended tyre life (plus point) of the tyre and a slightly harder ride (not noticed after a few days!)......

I do caution people to use the max tire pressure for the vehicle, not the tire. I drove a 1981 Mini in England delivering pizza for Dominoes. I loved that car for the way it handled the short twisty trips I took getting pizza out.

When I bought it, it had a nice set of wide rims but the tires were old so I put new ones on and observed they were rated up to 45 psi (sry, cant remember the bar psi for that). Back then I didn't know any better so I pumped them up not caring about a stiff ride in a car with rubber cone suspension.

The end result was my tires did wear in the middle because I seriously over-pressurized them for their 'mini' load. Lucky, I noticed belts showing on the front before I had a blowout. This situation was extreme due to the light weight of the vehicle, the high pressure applied and my aggressive driving.

When I replaced the tires I learned that those tires were made to fit my mini and various small trailers which could have a much higher load hence the higher pressure rating. Keep in mind the application of the tires and their possible intended usages.

Drew

The vehicle was loaded with two adults in front and three small children spread around the back seats. A few backpacks and a cooler. So... no heavy load.

As I mentioned, this vehicle has automatic sensors in the tires. And a dashboard readout. The one tire was 6 psi underinflated, measured when it was cold. The sensors give you a warning when a tire is underinflated to the extent that it poses a problem. There was no warning given in this case. Evidently, 6 psi under is not enough to warrent that. It was the first time I noticed a low tire, and that only because it looked a little low, visually, as I walked up to it.

And also, no rock was struck with any force out of the ordinary. Just normal driving.

I have to agree...I have always run my tires at the maximum air pressure suggested on the tire, not on the owner's manual. (they may differ) My tires don't ever wear out in the "centre stripe" pattern, even though I do a lot of highway miles. As a result, my tires seem to give remarkable life. I have noticed that as they get older, they get slipperier...I think because the rubber composition begins to harden from the environment, rather like an old pencil eraser. I rejected a set of new snow tires last week when I noticed that they had been sitting in a warehouse for more than ten years. It seems that is a bigger problem than is generally thought. Used to be that you simply rotated your tires every 6000 km, and checked with a lincoln penny for tread depth. Now you should check the date of manufacture as well. You can find out more about tires here.

I had a very similar blowout on my Ford Ranger about 12 years ago. I was furious with the tire manufacturer, but before I sent off a big nasty gram to the tire company, I went back along the road, looking for hazards. Sure enough, I found a flange of metal sticking up...it was some sort of trash which had been buried in the dirt which I could not even see until I was looking at it at just the right angle. My blowout was much more ragged but it was straight across from rim to rim. The OP's looks like it was cut! I will be subscribing to this discussion because there is no doubt that it is by observing failures that we can define success. So all I can suggest is that there may have been an overlooked road hazard which contributed to the failure.

The vast majority of tire failures can be ascribed to improper inflation, improper load rating, or road hazards. I presume you have ruled out those, which leaves the less likely culprits. Manufacturing defects, age, over use, overloading, cyclic overloading, over heating. Opinions on this forum may be trumped by a professional analysis. A google search for Engineering Failure Analysis will turn up many professional firms which have a lot of experience.

Out of curiosity, how old was that tire when it blew?

If you are looking at the tear that is on the sidewalls.. I agree it does look cut. But I suspect that is only because the rubber is thin there and it was following the line of the radial cords all the way down to the bead. But up on top of the tread, if you could examine it closely you'd see that there is no evidence of an external cut by a blade-like object. It's torn, pretty clearly.

And of course, an object in the road was my first thought as I looked at the tire when I stopped the truck. I walked quite a ways up that road looking for that hunk of metal or jagged rock... but no .. nothing. Was a smooth dirt road. Nothing in my tire tracks.

As far as the age... the vehicle was bought new less than a year ago. The tires came from the dealer, on the vehicle. I haven't looked at the date on the tires yet.

I had issues with the original tires on a 1998 F-150 I had. Picking up nails from construction sites and poor wet traction. At 30,000 I went to a local American made tire. When I had one of these new tires next to one of the old, both unmounted, I noticed a dramatic difference in the weight, with the new tire being much heavier. The original tires were a lot like thick inner tubes with tread on them.

Well, that would be exactly one of the differences if you were comparing bias-ply tires with radials. Bias-ply are much thicker rubber and heavier. Could that have been the reason?

It may have been the reason, I asked the dealer for a tire with good wet traction and more resistance to punctures. I don't remember the construction.

I've seen this before. You either ran over a Ninja or a Ginsu knife salesman that you did not see.

Come to think of it... I seem to remember seeing what appeared to be a wide-eyed turtle in a ninja costume, just before the tire blew...

Some of the small children who live with us will never forgive you if you ran over one of their heroes.

Let's just keep that between ourselves, OK?

My guess is a faulty tire. I would return it to the dealer and see if they will replace it.

I'm trying to find the correct email at Goodyear Corporate office to contact. This is what the corporate site says: "Your comments may be forwarded to Goodyear associates who do not have access to internet email."

Huh???

"Your comments may be forwarded to Goodyear associates who do not have access to internet email."

I love that! I may use a version of that one myself.

Unless new cars and pickups have changes a whole lot in recent years, the tires and shocks that come on standard vehicles are spec'd out by the vehicle manufacturers, and warranty claims are factory (respective tire or shock) deals. The tires and shocks that came with the last two new cars I bought were crap, and gave up the ghost after about 10,000.

It was explained to me that if Dodge put better tires and shocks on, the price would be a prohibitive addition (the cars I bought were pretty basic), and their vehicle sales would suffer. I expect Ford, GMC, Toyota, etc. to have a similar policy.

I know. That reminds me of the one that says something like "Cannot find keyboard connection. Hit any key to continue" ... wtf. This one is actually real!

Okay, now translate what you said, in English. The Bottom Line of your comment was ... what ?

If tires wear out due to normal wear and tear, they are not covered by warranty, but in this case, I wouldn't consider it "normal wear and tear" and the dealer should make good.

Your comments may be forwarded to Goodyear associates who do not have access to internet email.

I suspect a printer of being involved in the process. This is especially bad since the ink cartridges can no longer fly where they are needed and may have to hitch rides. With tires failing like this, however, the hitching process is likely to be greatly slowed.

It seems you have uncovered the conspiracy between Goodyear and the TSA to cover up butt-splice-gate.

That is amazing! I would love to contact them and find out how they get away with . Do you have their e-mail address?

I believe Tornado has put forth a good possible reason. I have seen this result before and I would bet someone hit a curb or parking stop at one time starting the failure process. Sometimes referred to as Impact fracture.

h

Do you have any enemies?

Check the manufacture date. News just did a report on old shelf life tires being installed on new cars and in tire stores. Four digits-month/ year on side wall.

Have you reported to original mfr.? It will give them feed back and corrective action to be taken by them.

Looks to me that it's more of a quality control issue at the tire manufacturer's plant than anything else. The manufacturer should pick-up the tire and inspect it at there QA/QC laboratory to ascertain why it failed.

I've never seen a tire failure mode like this one before.....really strange indeed!

I have never been able to stick my hand in a damaged steel belted radial (see OP's Image) and not have it come out looking like it was jammed into a cactus.

Not a normal failure mode.

Yes, exactly one of the points I was making. I agree.

As much as I respect the many intelligent opinions on here... Andy Germany in particular has always in my opinion been an extremely reliable combination of engineering knowledge and good sense... in this case, I'm going to have to agree mostly with CaptMoosie and lynlynch.

I also have never ever seen a failure of this sort. I've done plenty of off roading, and seenall sorts of tires deal with extreme terrain. Seen gashes and punctures and dented rims. But this severing of all the steel strands plus the full tread plus both sidewalls... it's absolutely extreme and completely unique in my experience, or anyone I know.

There is a point to be made about running on low air pressure. But as I mentioned, it was only 6 psi low, when completely cold. Not good for a tire... but I don't believe it's low enough to be fatal to a tire. Plus, the damage that normally results from that condition is sidewall related, and not something that will slash steel strands entirely across.

The load was not extreme. It never was carrying more than two adults and 3 small children. It's built to seat 9. The gear on this particular day was a few backpacks and a cooler.

As far as running over something that could have damaged the steel strands... I suppose I can imagine that scenario... but I'm thinking that to even be able to do that on purpose, would be a stretch and a challenge. Particularly if you're trying to do it without destroying the rubber and puncturing the tire right at that moment. To sever all the steel strands embedded inside that rubber without slicing the tire .... well, i don't know. It's not like the strands are brittle. They are going to flex too. And the impact needed to do that, and the sharpness of the edge that you'd have to hit, and finally... the fact that it was a rear tire.... well, I know there was nothing in the road; I know I hit nothing with severe impact ( was crawling along at 1-5 mph over any rocks that stuck out from the dirt)... the whole days' ride was relatively smooth... the last half mile was absolutely smooth dirt....

Well, nothing extreme happened that day. No extreme conditions. No extreme load, nor impacts. No extermemly low psi. Age and milage of tire was low. Driving history of the vehicle was that of a mother of three taking them to soccer and driving around town...

What I find especially curious is that the steel strands broke so cleanly. None of them were pulled out on either side, nor frayed or stretched. The symmetry is also noteworthy.

As I said, I'm trying to find the proper dept at Goodyear to report this too. Not as easy as you'd think. I don't know what happened, and what I mentioned above is just my own conjecture. I appreciate all your ideas. But my thinking is that more and more, it seem like it could only be some sort of defect. I can't see "opertator error" as being able to cause such a weird failure, given the circumstances and history I mentioned.

But even if I go with the "defect" theory... even that is hard to understand. The closest thing I could think of is lynlynch's suggestion that the steel belt may have a "butt-weld line" that failed. If that were the case, there is a chance that just driving over an edge of rock (even 2" tall) that lined up with that weld seam, could have snapped that connection. But I haven't been able to find fabrication details that confirm that one way or the other. So that's a complete guess.

Thoughts??

I did have a spare.

And never implied it was "okay" to drive with pressure a little low. But when I noticed my girlfriends vehicle had a tire that was a little low, I pumped it up. In either case, a little low should not ever cause the incredible failure that you see in the photos.

I appreciate you taking the time to comment, but truth be told... your attitude sounds uncomfortably like the response customers get when they go in to a shop to report a problem, and you get a run-around and a "passing the buck" from the shop owner, blaming the customer for not using the tire properly. I guess people need to follow strict instructions now, on how to use a tire? Otherwise it's our fault? No, I really don't believe we broke any of the cardinal rules of using a tire, and that I need to be more diligent. It's a tire. We drove down the road on it. I think that's how they are supposed to be used. I didn't drive it while it was flat. It was a little low for some short amount of time. That happens from time to time. Nor did we take it on the World Bouldering Championship.

In no way do any of the things we may have done "wrong" justify this happening to a tire. Are you kidding me?

I'll go with that. Good post.

I had exact issue elk hunting. Gravel road, low speed, and had just checked pressures. Tire sensor goes off below 35 psi. 18" wheels with 8,200 miles on new vehicle. Rear tire split exactly as you show. Got home with no spare as no one had 18" in this area and looked up comments on the Goodyear SRA tire in Google. Would not believe the comments on this tire regarding gravel roads. Replaced all 4 tires at a cost of $1,400. Now riding on Michelins.

Well now that's interesting. You're the first one that's seen this before. And similar circumstances... hmm....

I really don't think that the tyre was damaged on the date it blew, I think it was most likely damaged (overheated through under inflation) at some point in time previous to that day....this sort of damage can take days, weeks, months or even a year or more to cause the instant deflation in my opinion.

I had a similar effect on an old caravan (secondhand caravan) tyre, it also had such a radial burst. Mine burst in several places all at the same time.....all Radial, just like the tyre in this example, but much worse (if that is possible!!)....and very strange looking....I showed it around, but did not take photos (sadly!).

When it blew, it also gave off a cloud of black (rubber?) dust which I just caught a glimpse of in the rear view mirror as the caravan went down on the offside.....The tyre rubber was sort of dry, hard and dusty in my opinion.....not as flexible as it should be...it was a quality radial tyre from a leading manufacturer...

The tyre dealer looked at the wrecked tyre and said that it had been extremely overheated at some point in its life, but he could not say when....but it had to have been in my case at least a year before as the caravan had not been moved in that time that much, just over 220km to the burst......and certainly not overheated in my/that time.....

An overheated tyre, is to my mind, almost like a time bomb, one day it will burst, not necessarily when heavily loaded or correctly inflated....my caravan was empty (light) when it finally cut loose....it was also a special heavy duty tyre that can handle much heavier loads than normal car tyres....they are needed for single axle caravans with a full load of 1400Kg. (in my case).

There was nothing showing externally beforehand that could be taken as evidence of overheating.......I had checked the tyres most carefully before the journey...luckily there was a brand new spare also.....

I agree. I had a similar situation several years ago: Back ground: -I am very big on maintenance. I tend to replace parts before their best before date. There is just to many places around, that are in the middle of but**** nowhere, and just happens to have no cell phone reception. -Michelin Light Truck tires, all four replaced at the same time and from the same lot# -Mounted on a GMC Safari van, that is strictly used for light passenger duty. -10,000 KM's on them at the time of the blow out. -Tires had never met a gravel road. Strictly city and highway pavement. That van was never meant to be off road, and has not been. -Traveling along Hwy 401 on nice sunny winter day. No snow, ice, debris, etc. Than came the "big bang". I did not where it came from. I looked around at other vehicles, nothing. Checked all gauges, OK, no strange noises etc. After a few minutes the shimmy started in the back end. Pulled over. Found the back right tire deflating fast. There was no physical damage visible. Air was exiting the tire in all kinds of locations in the tread area. Limped in to a garage using that joke of a bicycle tire spare. (note: you can actually fit a full size tire and rim on the underside of a Safari/ Astro Van) Sorry for the long history. I wish to give as much information as possible, and I do have a tendency to wander. I did edit it, and have left out the most amusing part of this story, as it is totally of topic. After making my way to a Michelin distributor. The first question was; what caused it? they checked the tire, they as I, could not find no external damage. After pressing the question further: The response was "I don't know". My biggest concern was, is this a one off manufacturing defect, or a design flaw that will come back to haunt me in the form of a front blow out. I still remember the Firestone 500 tire. When I asked yet again: The silence was deafening. In all fairness they totally supported the warranty, and after prorating the tread ware I paid around $12.00. To this day, I have never had any more issues with Michelin. Back then, all those involved, should have been more interested in the cause for the failure, as history has shown, that indifference can lead to death.

Maybe someone "buried the hatchet" and you ran over it!

I would recommend you get nitrogen installed in your tires from this point on, due to the fact that nitrogen (in a pure state, or as close to pure as it can get) is inert and will not blow out. That is one of the main reasons nitrogen providing companies give standard road side assistance and offer to buy you a new tire if you ever have a blow out... because it is extremely unlikely that you will have a blow out. Nitrogen also does not corrode the tire compound from the inside out because it does not have oxygen or water in it. It also does not compress like air does, making your tires last longer. I have nitrogen in all of my vehicles including my sport bike and it felt like a suspension upgrade in each vehicle. Although the bike felt better than the two suv's. Just my two cents.

Hope that helps. For the price, it's worth it. Almost forgot, nitrogen molecules are four to five times larger than air molecules, so it doesn't seep out of the tire as fast as air.

sethtech355,

I'll play my usual role of A$$hole here.

If what you say is true about N₂ molecules being bigger than air molecules, wouldn't I end up with pure N₂ in my tires after a while anyway, after all the air has diffused through my tires back into the atmosphere?

Regardless, I'm not convinced that the cost, and bother, of using "pure" N₂ is worth it over the life of the tire. I may be wrong.

Any other opinions?

The carrier aircraft I dealt with used nitrogen in the tires at very high pressures. I was told nitrogen was used because it did not react with the magnesium alloy wheels.

(This may be scuttlebutt).

Wow, I don't know where to start with all this. Unredundant, I chose to reply to your post because you mention aircraft (not that I disagree with your comment).

I spent 10 year active duty Air Force, my job was Fuels. I drove a fuel truck and maintained bulk fuel tanks and hydrant pumping systems. I also maintained liquid oxygen and liquid nitrogen tanks. Being the curious sort, I asked lots of questions; oxygen was a no-brainer because pilots need to breath. Nitrogen left me curious.

The Air Force uses it for several purposes, the accumulators in various hydrolic systems and the shocks on the landing gear. Some aircraft fill the fuel tanks with it to prevent drawing in oxygen as fuel is used. They do also inflate all aircraft tires with it for many of the reasons listed already. I don't know if all civilian aircraft use it too.

The primary reason I know is nitrogen from pure sources has no humidity. Moisture in a tire that is heating up will expand more than a nitrogen filled tire. Aircraft tires endure tremendous forces during landing and braking causing them to heat rapidly. If there were moisture in the tire this could lead to a blowout. This is why I was told to be careful where I fill my tires; if the place isn't maintained well, their compressor could have accumulated condensation.

The Air Force still has magnesium tires on some aircraft. I don't know if they all are but I know some are because every year fuels personnel are required to attend fire training and they explain what a class D fire extinguisher is for and they use the example of aircraft rims being magnesium.

Drew

Any other opinions?

You are exactly correct. N2 makes no difference at all in any measurable performance attribute, other than the diffusion rate, which is so low that it, too, is barely measurable over the course of a year with a standard pressure gauge. The molecular sizes are too close for any dramatic difference: N and O are side-by-side on the periodic chart. If we were talking about H2 versus O2, the difference would be significant. The fact that air is already 80% nitrogen means that we are not even talking about O2 vs N2: we're talking about almost all N2 vs all N2.

If air were 100% O2, then filling with nitrogen could make a measurable difference on the life of the innerliner (and, to a lesser extent, that of the body plies). But looking through a pile of junked tires will convince you that the outside of the tire becomes age damaged (cracked and checked) long before the inside of the tire does. UV is more damaging than the relatively small amount of O2 in air.

GA for good knowledge & commonsense.

There are advantages with nitrogen, but nothing like you stated.

Tires blow because of something external to the tire causes them to blow or the tire has a defect.

The hype about nitrogen is mostly BS to get you to buy into their products, services, or roadside assistance plans.

If you are racing you get an advantage, but it has to do with predictability of nitrogen as far as tire temperature goes. Nitrogen is also inert, so oxidation of the inside wheel surface is lower.

Let me clarify, a blow out is when oxygen inside the tire ignites and explodes. A puncture will always deflate a tire. Nitrogen inflated tires do no explode, they deflate. This makes it safer when they do have a problem. Us military uses nitrogen in all aircraft tires, and magnesium wheels are no longer in use do to the fact that once they catch fire, they cannot be put out unless all oxygen in eliminated from the area or they burn themselves out. Let me ask you this, have you experienced the difference in having nitrogen in your tires? I have. Don't knock it 'till you've tried it.

GA

You have a excellent knowledge and you can express it well too......thanks.

When the tire blows (due to over heating) it is possible to have the compressed oxygen ignite.

And what would the oxidizer for the O2 be??? O2 + O2 = O4?

I suppose you were thinking of something like this, where the innerliner serves as a fuel.

Re nitrogen as a gimmick - you are, of course, correct. I was looking for a new car recently, and one dealer's first offer included N2 in the tires for $299!!! (along with other "ups" which inflated the price of the car by over $1000). I walked out quickly, (there being no point in doing business with such a sleazy bunch) but many people apparently still fall for this kind of thing -- the dealer is part of a large successful chain.

I guess that the O4 is 'heavy oxygen'?

In a passenger car under normal use (not talking about race cars) whoever wrote that about O2 exploding is surely just playing engineer - even a simple mechanical engineer type like me knows better!

Same with the oxygen in a tire exploding while in passenger service - total BS

Can't comment about race cars or airplanes - zero experience for me there.

I have never heard of a tyre "explosion" of the type you are talking about!!!

The explosion of a tyre happens when the rubber is so hot it softens to such a degree that the air left inside also expands/increases pressure due to the overheating and blows through the soft/now damaged rubber.....there is no flame as such........if there was one, we would be using inert gases ever since Mr Dunlop first invented the pneumatic tyre......and that would be set by law by now!!!!

You cannot have flames of explosion on a vehicle that uses gas/petrol as the prime energy source, that would be tantamount to suicide!!!

And that is patently NOT the case!!!

Sorry, you are wrong on that score!!!!!

Look here:-

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=13

for a good explanation. Notice that burning oxygen is simply not mentioned at all.....

Let me clarify, a blow out is when oxygen inside the tire ignites and explodes. A puncture will always deflate a tire.

A blowout ordinarily means the sudden loss of pressure accompanied by a bang -- like a balloon popping. In tire plants, tires go bang in the curing room periodically, and the noise can be heard throughout the plant. There is no chemistry (ignition) involved. This is the case in at least 99% of the on-road events that people call blowouts.

(Oxygen, BTW does not ignite. Oxygen supports the ignition of a fuel. The combining of oxygen with a fuel is what we call combustion.)

In aircraft, tires can explode as a result of chemical action: the rapid oxidization of volatiles emitted from the tire innerliner at elevated temperatures caused by brake overheat. (Race cars have the potential for dramatic brake overheating, and so nitrogen has a valid use in race car tires. Dryness is also an advantage for race car tires, where the difference between expansion rates in a dry gas vs a humid gas is thought significant -- so dry gas is used to better control pressure.)

In road tires, the differences between optimal pressure for handling, vs the optimal pressure for tire life, vs optimal pressure for ride are large, are well outside the very slight differences that race car drivers worry about (and even there, the driver makes a far bigger difference than the gas in the tires, and the pressure is optimized almost exclusively for handling). (The Bridgestone - Ford debacle relates here: Ford recommended a tire pressure, 25 psi, that favored ride over the other parameters.)

For road tires, the tiny difference in the pressure change curve (dry vs humid) is insignificant in comparison to the very large over- and under-inflation that is typical: Any driver should (in impractical theory) increase inflation pressure in exact proportion to the load carried, and these changes can be several psi, rather than the small fractions of psi attributable to using humid air vs dry air or nitrogen. However, no driver does this routinely, carefully weighing all the luggage and other stuff carried every day, balancing the load fore and aft and right to left, and adjusting psi to tenths, to the optimal pressure for each tire, for that day, for that outside air temperature, for that road surface temperature, for that day's route, for mood -- good handling or good ride? -- taking into account pavement types... (In race cars this kind of thing is actually done, as is the measurement of tire temperature across the tread -- which is essential to come remotely close to an optimal pressure.)

Using pure nitrogen (instead of 80% nitrogen) in road tires is like watching the Academy Awards on TV with a condom in your pocket, in hopes that you will get lucky with Angelina Jolie. Couldn't it happen that she can sense that you are there, just waiting for her?

If you routinely weld on your rims while the tire is inflated you should use nitrogen.

Even a nitrogen filled tyre, if overloaded and/or under inflated will still overheat. It may have a smaller chance of losing pressure, but a nail in a tyre can still cause a slow leak, whether its filled with air or any other gas.....

Because its a function of the way the rubber is being heavily (over) flexed that actually causes the temperature rise......nothing to do with the gas inside......

But if nitrogen could take this massive amount of heat and transfer it to the metal part of the wheel at a higher rate than say air (and that the same metal can be almost "super cooled" at the same time), then the heating effect will be possibly slowed down - but never stopped.

But as rubber is a (poor) insulator, getting all the heat out of the core of the rubber will still not be possible......which is why a tyre overheats even though its being cooled over its entire surface by the passing wind of the driving.......nitrogen cannot fix that type of overheating by 100%....maybe 10% or so at best (although that is a guess only....and its probably even less)

I don't disagree with most of your other comments about nitrogen, it simply gets "sold" too well for my personal liking.....though I have to admit that I have never personally tried it out as air is (almost) free and I am a bit of a Scotsman!!

Since the disgusting incident with the wine bottle (it was in some miscreants filthy pocket) I have had my Rolls fitted with nitrogen filled run-flat tyres. It simply would not do to be stranded among-st a crowd of unruly hooligans!

Thurston Howell III

I am amazed that in a country like the USA, where there are a lot of good speed controls on many (most?) roads, that anyone can wipe out tyres in 10,000 miles or so??? Surely thats not normal????

Generally speaking, I achieve anything between 60 - 120,000 kms on a set of tyres, depending upon the vehicle and the quality of tyres......and we have Autobahns with no speed limits....and I can put my foot down with the best of them!! (But I do run with the highest allowed tyre pressures for the vehicle!!)

Naturally cheap tyres wear sooner in most cases......I actually find that it generally costs more to run on cheap tyres, once you have added the cost of balancing and mounting them on the vehicle more often.......

Well, her eis the skinny on tires:

First, tire compounds run the spectrum from super soft to very hard.

Soft rubber wears very fast, but gives superior grip. They also may be noisier, but cornering, braking, and traction in turns is superior. Fuel mileage is not that good as they are a high rolling resistance tire due to their sticky nature.

Soft rubber is usually used for high performance tires. The tread depth, when new, is generally less than standard passenger tires because it reduces tire squirm. This also means that tires reach their end of life sooner because there is less tread.

Hard rubber tires wear very slowly. However, they have much less grip. They also get the best fuel mileage.

All tires are speed rated. High speed ratings are expensive and generally found on performance tires. Z (now replaced with W or Y) or V rating determines the highest rated speed for the tires. H rated tires have a lower safe maximum speed.

From the Tire Rack website:

L 75 mph 120 km/h Off-Road & Light Truck Tires

M 81 mph 130 km/h

N 87 mph 140km/h Temporary Spare Tires

P 93 mph 150 km/h

Q 99 mph 160 km/h Studless & Studdable Winter Tires

R 106 mph 170 km/h H.D. Light Truck Tires

S 112 mph 180 km/h Family Sedans & Vans

T 118 mph 190 km/h Family Sedans & Vans

U 124 mph 200 km/h

H 130 mph 210 km/h Sport Sedans & Coupes

V 149 mph 240 km/h Sport Sedans, Coupes & Sports Cars

W 168 mph 270 km/h Exotic Sports Cars

Y 186 mph 300 km/h Exotic Sports Cars

Now, there are some variations with the difference between street high performance and standard passenger cars when it comes to tire life and performance, but the general rule is that high performance tires wear sooner and offer superior grip over passenger tires and also cost a lot more.

Rain performance has more to do with tread pattern and depth. Essentially, the tire needs to carry the water away to allow the tread to contact the road instead of hydroplane across it.

So, that is the short lesson on tires and why some last a long time and others wear very fast.

I have to laugh, you will have real problems in finding S, T or U tyres (or anything earlier than that!!) here in Germany.

V is the most popular as far as I can tell and can be found generally speaking on most cars.....

My car will achieve slightly over 200 KMH and is an Estate car (UK talk!)......Nothing special or even particularly fast!!! Its a normal family car....

I just realized what is wrong with this blog!!!! (Who is a smart Alec today? Moi??)

THE NAME IS WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!

I have "adjusted" the name to reflect REALITY!!!

Seriously though, in the real world, tyre blowouts (preventable ones mostly if the proper care was taken) happen every minute of every day of the year all around the world!!

We should all treat our tyres with more respect, check the pressures more often, not ride over pavement edges so fast, make sure that you are as close to a 90° angle to the pavement as possible when going over the pavement edge, not 30° or less and 10 MPH or more!!

Also, as many have here already mentioned here, we all should use the highest legal tyre pressure that your car manufacturer recommends, ALL THE TIME.

Also, when driving, especially when the car is loaded up, check that ALL the tyres, trailer as well, are at best human body temperature, (back of hand against tyre) not any higher.......

If a few more people followed these simple rules (and their spouses/children too!!), there would be a lot fewer blowouts....but it would still not fix all blowouts, the ones where a previous owner had damaged the tyres in some manner, a manufacturing construction failure etc.., but even those would be reduced dramatically if the tyres were run cool ALL THE TIME!!

ITS COOL MAN!!

Thank god you where doing 10-15mph and not any faster. I have had a blow out on the motorway and I did not drive for about 2 weeks after. I have seen a lot of these types of blow-outs it all to do with the new radial design of construction. Like many people have said in the other comments I would say the rocky ground, mixed with a heavy load or incorrect tyre pressure would have been the cause of this. What did the tyre company do? After my blow out I got a full new set of tires from the company I ordered them from as they have a quality guaranty on all of their used tyres.