Quick Release Clamp

Tube material?

How much pressure?

How much other force?

What does it do??????????????????

Pretend like you are describing it to someone who has no idea what you really want to do. Cause that's who we are.

6061 thin walled aluminum. The smaller tube will hold a light-weight sign (1-2 pounds, maybe). The telescoping tube system will turn 180 degrees at a time with the help of a motor. I need to hold the smaller tube in place so it turns with the larger pipe but can't turn inside the larger pipe or slip and so it remains water-tight. I am imagining the type of quick-release clamp use on bicycle seat posts but it doesn't necessarily have to have the lever for tightening. It can be a knob that is twisted by hand. The more important part of it is that it has to create a seal. It does need to be hand-tightened so that the user will not need tools.

Very good! I'm late for Boy Scouts......Later.

Ditto

Ditto

Ditto

Ditto

Not nearly enough info.

Why don't you use a gland packing - the type used at the shaft for water pumps.

The entire frame will consist of thin-walled tubing and sheet metal. It is something that someone will have to be able to carry with them to set it up and then carry back to storage when not being used. Similar to a road construction sign frame. Weight has to be considered and obviously price, the lower the better. It doesn't have to be extravagant, just effective.

It seems you have rejected my idea without going indepth.

I have an alternate suggestion; apply film of gasket compound each time you have to set it up, various brands of cold application gasket compounds are in the market.

How about a quick-release band clamp? An O-ring at the joint would provide a water-tight seal.

http://www.clampco.com/products/t-bolt-made-to-order.asp

Imagine a telescoping microphone stand or pool brush pole. Some type of compression fitting. I haven't worked out the water seal, yet.

No time.

That's it!

Don't know if you already bought your parts, but an inexpensive twist lock adjustable roller pole for painting would do the trick. It's even got a threaded end that could be used to mount your sign. Slightly heavier than aluminum, but not much.

Thank you to everyone who commented. Now I have to figure out what to do. I am leaning toward a threaded fitting that will hold when tightened and allow for adjustments when loose. I am also looking into a clamping system, something along the lines of what Clampco carries. I just don't see how a threaded fitting would work if the fitting was on the larger tube. How would it clamp down and hold the smaller tube AND create the water-tight seal?? Would I have to have "slits" cut into the larger tube so it could "clamp" down when the fitting or nut is tightened? Just so everyone in the world knows, I am a visual person so explained in words takes me a little time to figure out!!!! Sorry:{

Doesn't get much easier than that!!!!! I HATE when it is something that easy! It's supposed to be high-tech and extremely technical then it wouldn't make me look so bad!!!!! Thanks. I really appreciate your help.

Are those fittings specific for sink applications or do they have similar fittings for industrial apps? Something in aluminum with different diameters? Just checking to see if you know off-hand.

Off the top of my head, I'm thinking they are pretty specific to plumbing fixtures, but the pipe sizes are pretty standard, so the nut and washer should work off the shelf if you are able to pick Aluminum pipe instead of mech tubing. They come in a couple different standard sizes in both chrome plated brass and PVC. You might have to have a threaded bit machined from aluminum and welded or epoxied to the larger tubing to make it work. If the size is wrong for your app., you can of course use a standard o-ring and machine your nut too.

At first I was going to put a motor below the tubing and drive the tubing which would turn the sign. I am thinking that maybe I would place the motor in a housing on top of the smaller pipe and just drive the sign. If I could do that then I could probably get away with using aluminum pipe and eliminating this whole "water-tight" issue. The only thing that would have to be water-tight would be the motor housing. I was hesitant about using pipe because of straightness issues. Is that an issue with pipe or is it generally pretty straight when purchased? Straight enough for one inside the other? Still thinking about it.

If you wanted to, you could describe the whole project and what you are trying to accomplish. Might be some people on here that could simplify the entire process.

Alright, listen up!!!! The frame is pretty straight forward and I've got that covered once the whole rotation of the sign is figured out. I have an application where I need to place a 2-sided sign onto a mount and have that sign rotate 180deg every time someone pushes the remote (it will be remote controlled). The frame will be roughly the same size as the frames that hold the large diamond shaped signs for road construction. The frame base will be a combination of sheet metal and rectangular tubing. I was originally going to design a base large enough to accommodate a box that would house all the electronics/components for driving the sign and that box would be fastened to the under side of the base-plate. The motor would then drive the tubular shafts from the bottom of the frame. Now I'm thinking I could design it so that the motor and everything would be on top of the smaller tube, on a plate and in a water-tight box, and then I could drive JUST the motor. That would eliminate the need for large bearings, water-proofing the tube joints, and allow me to use basic aluminum pipe for the shafts and take moving shafts out of the equation. They will still be adjustable up-and-down but that will be a lot easier to create. That would allow me to use smaller motors and bearings. What do you think???

Kind of like this with a slightly different sign shape? Just trying to help, take it easy. Even if you're going to make it yourself, there's no reason to completely reinvent the wheel.

http://www.rotosigns.com/product/rotating-signs/

Combined with something like this?

http://www.ambienttechnologies.com/products/ac_remotes/RCBE.asp

I'm trying too. I appreciate the help. I have a head-ache right now! Kidding. So much to think about. I have a tendency to try and get too elaborate and it hurts me sometimes.

I have the same problem. I'll put way too much thought into a project that turns out to be simple.

That's the beauty of CR4, you can share the pain with willing participants.

I just had another thought regarding your sign holder. I don't know how many of these you need, but you may want to look into a cheap camera tripod with collapsible legs, the twist lock type. I believe those have rubber seals on them. Cut the legs off and you've got holders for three signs.

I also understand the tendency to take a simple solution and than run with it till it bogs down due to the complexity.

Idea: Depending on the tube diameters and lengths used, can you use the smaller tube on the bottom with the larger one sliding up and down it? This will eliminate the seal problem as water does not run up hill.

I am considering that as well. That was a thought I had last night while lying in bed, trying to fall asleep!!!! It's hard to sleep when you have so much information running through your head.

I must be missing something here. If you have the motor on the base & rotate the tube assembly why do the joints have to be water tight unless you're running power to the sign for illumination or something. You could use square tubes as suggested & a simple pin in a hole latch. This would be like the winch stands used for lighting rigs. These are hand winched up with a ratchet stopping the tubes from telescoping down. I've seen these at 4 or 5 metres tall.

So basically you are going to use this to replace a flagperson. At least that is what this sounds like so that one person can push the remote and have the sign turn say from stop to slow. You could use the telescoping method, but why not use square tubing with a hinge and a spring clamp so you just fold the unit together when not used? It would serve the same purpose and likely would be cheaper in the end. Just a suggestion.

This was actually my post but for some reason it came up as a guest.

So basically you are going to use this to replace a flagperson. At least that is what this sounds like so that one person can push the remote and have the sign turn say from stop to slow. You could use the telescoping method, but why not use square tubing with a hinge and a spring clamp so you just fold the unit together when not used? It would serve the same purpose and likely would be cheaper in the end. Just a suggestion.

I am considering that but it may need to be height adjustable and the hinged solution would keep it at a fixed height. I am still considering square tubing and have the motor housing mounted up top. A lot to consider here.

It might be too top heavy.

If you use a washdown duty/TENV motor and a sealed gearbox, which almost all of them are, then there is no need for watertightness at all. in fact an open frame/non-water tight motor is a VERY BAD idea and could run the very real risk of hurting someone quite badly. But this sounds like the support is going to be pretty rickety from the image in my mind's eye. the first 18 wheeler that blows past at 80 mph or a strong wind will tear it down in a heartbeat. Also consider using two pieces of square fiberglass tubing inside your support as the driveshaft instead of turning the support tubing. that eliminates the need for your slip joint to handle torque too.

Square fiberglass tubing??? One inside the other???? The smaller tube has to collapse into the larger one for transportation or storage.

Here is but a few of many many suppliers, it is used for handrails and such for offshore oil rigs and petrochem plants where steel would rust away in a heartbeat and may be a spark ignition point.

http://www.fiberglasssheets.com/FRP/Pultruded-Fiberglass-Tubing

http://www.mcnichols.com/products/structural-shapes/tube

http://www.mcmaster.com/#fiberglass-square-tubing/=a1sy4f

Don't forget about wind loading on your sign. the frame has to be a lot stronger/stiffer than you'd think.

Forget about "O" ring seals and other types incorporated in the clamp.

On your top tube make a slip fit shroud which can be slid down over your clamp or pin this will deflect any water, it can be made from a soft plastic material which will grip the tube hard enough for a seal or use a hose clamp. There must be an assortment in the plumbers supply departments.

Not square fiberglass tubing, square metal tubing with a hinge instead of telescoping would work just as well and likely be just as cheap if not cheaper. If you have a hinge on one side of the tubing and a small clasp where the pieces snap together when unfolded.

We've all been there. And if we can't admit that we have, then we have forgotten how to talk to people, animals become our only freinds and the lab is our only sanctuary. Eeeeeek. I've been, been, been assimilated...

The music warehouses (musiciansfriend.com) comes to mind. Then make all kinds of telescopic gear for mic's, dj lighting, speaker stands, etc.

The painters pole and the pool tool handle are other great examples of improvision.

I loved the p-trap seal, simple and inexspensive. Maybe there is a pipe union made along that principle that would work.

Had a 6 year old show me how to get ketchup out of a bottle once.

Will never forget that lesson.

How about the two tubes are slightly elliptical (i.e. ovalised from the original circular form)?

They would slide over each other when aligned and with a twist would lock one against the other. I think this is a well worn idea and is used very often exactly for this purpose of extendable legs. The thickness of the tubes is important: inside thinner than the outside so that the outer tube retains its shape and the inner tube finishes by wedging up.

If on O-ring was introduced at two points along the length - say 6" apart - then the squeeze on the ring would create the water tightness.

Rotate 180°? Can it turn, "back and forth"? Does it have to turn the same way each time?

Maybe some type of linear actuator and bell crank, if it can go both ways?

Square tube, sleeve and a set screw?

It turn 180 in the same direction each time or the opposite way each time. It doesn't matter. Also, the rotation will be pretty low RPM's. It could make a 180 rotation in 1.5 - 2 seconds (something like that). I was thinking an inexpensive DC brushed motor, gearbox, limit switches to control the stop, things like that. Too much or am on the right track?

Complicated. What's your budget? How about a little air compressor, surge tank, two way valve and air cylinder?

This is going to be out in the field and will have to run on batteries or something that will make it run without having to plug it in to anything. It will only be working in short bursts when used. Recharge-ables or photocell or something that will allow it to work without cords of any kind.

OK. Motor/gearbox may be the way to go.

The above sketch shows a typical "PIP PIN" which is quick release pin extensively used for providing very postive lock in in aero space assemblies. Google search will provide an extensive information about these pins.

Hope this information is useful for your application.

I think I've got a possible good idea.

A windshield wiper motor...........runs on 12 volt power supply, weather tight, auto stop, you can set speed, etc. All you'd have to do is get a battery and wire in a remote sensor.

If you're on a budget, you could get them from the junk yard.

"I think I've got a possible good idea."

Just take another drink and wait 5 minutes. It'll go away!

OK, coffee. It's not a bad idea if you can get enough "throw". 12V is easy to drive with batteries, too.

I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum this morning, been drinking coffee since 4AM. No adulterants.

That's a good one! I am going to check into that. Thanks!

OK!

Now that I've actually read all the posts, why the neccessity for watertight joint?

Further, the wipermotor drive sounds like the good idea. A good heavy-duty one from a truck would have an output side bearing capable of supporting the load you describe. and most of them can be re-adjusted so that you can change the operating arc to 180deg. A simple resistor will slow it down to suit you.

I'm liking that idea more and more! The water-tight need was something that was an early thought. I have moved away from that to simplify things. Once the wiper motor idea was introduced it changed things. I really appreciate everyone's input. It's fun to hear all the different thoughts on how to do something!

Just another quick thought:

A wipermotor from a bus ( coach) which has to swing a 5ft long blade would be a better start. It'll most likely be 24v, but operating on very little load as I sumise it will, it'll be fine on 12v, and you may find that it'll be slow enough without a resistor. and you can utilise the 'park' sector switching to get accurate swing stops.

stu.

A simple and good idea and the power consumption will be very low compared to a motor.

what material are you using. For water tightness, somekind of flexible material like latex or rubber or polyurethane end could be necessary only for deformation.

Extendable sticks are used in sailboats, especially catamarans. The carbon are more brittle and more $ but dont deform, they are smaller in diameter, about 1 inch.

on hockey sticks they add a rubberish finish for better hold, you can perhaps use that and it could be water tight, not for ever. A squishing clamp can be used, the type you find on small tool boxes, check extendable walking sticks, most are extendables.

check out microphone stands. Like a sink drain but smaller and use plastic cone to prevent wear and hold tight.

Use a piece of inner tube from a bicycle and slide it to both tubes, that will do it for the wather tigth and grip. For rotating you can use a couple of 12 volt solenoids

What's the idea of the remote activation?. You could have it on a timer, and then there could be a queue of traffic staring past the obstruction at an empty carriageway on 'green'.

If it is remote, the person with the control still needs to see both ends of the obstruction, and beyond, anyway, to let the longest queue go. I guess it could save one man at small obstruction, but at longer ones, there are battery powered radio controlled led traffic light systems in use anyway.

If you need a sign to just flip 180°, keep it simple and use a solenoid and a bell crank. The solenoid can be controlled by a timing circuit. I don't know the electronics of it, but I know it's pretty simple. Nylon bearings and a stainless steel shaft will operate outdoors with no problems.

Thanks for the info. The timer won't work for this application. I will look into the nylon bearing and I am all over the stainless! Thank you EVERYONE for the feedback. Much more than originally thought. Keep em' coming!