Mini Hydro Elect Plant

Your question is kind of meandering around a number of issues, but I THINK you are asking for information on micro-hydro generation. There are lots of web resources on this, because there are lots of small companies making "low head hydro" generators and "stream flow" generators. In general though, the ROI is typically very long, because the amount of energy you can recover is very low when all the losses are considered properly, along with long term maintenance. It works for some off-grid applications where the water is going to flow anyway, and it works on a very large scale where the losses are a lower percentage of the total (i.e. a lake behind a dam or a pumped storage system).

One interesting company I have talked to recently is Natel Energy. They have a new low-head hydro generator system designed for irrigation ditches. They have claimed some impressive returns compared to other similar technologies, but it is still in final development. Natel Energy Website.

thank you,

it is an interesting site. Multi uses of the water bags will be the key. For a number of years, i talked about steam and cold from the sun concentration. Pumping water from the bags to cool the PV cell and making power out of the celll and a stirling engine, and reduce dramatically the demand, will play the major part. I keep designing and searching and we see the light at the end of the tunnel.

cheers

A couple of years ago, I installed a micro hydro on a mountain top for a friend- good head, steady flow. $3000/kW.

Direct solar is probably a whole lot cheaper...

I haven't done the calc to price out solar in a while so I might be wrong (bad memory) or out of date... but the last time I ran the numbers for a solar system it was about $12 / watt.

It is now typically $4/watt, excluding installation. On a sailboat, installation is quite simple. Then there are other system costs, but much of the required hardware may already be available (such as in inverter, that is already part of a boat's battery-based AC supply system.)

Typically, the cost of the solar panels is a small fraction of the cost of a system, especially if one includes batteries (which are not generally considered part of the installation on a boat, since they are already there). $4/watt on a boat is therefore reasonable, as is $12/W for a land-based system...

The consensus for PV systems seems to make your hydro installation seem pretty competitive in terms of cost.

IF you have the right geography...and plenty of water flowing.

PV's are as cheap as I've seen them. About $2.40/watt for the panels- wholesale. System setup is hugely variable depending on particulars. A strict grid-tie system (no batteries, no grid independence) may be as low as $4/watt, but and off-grid system (batteries, etc)is more like twice (→$10/watt) that installed. And no rebates for off-grid systems.

I can't find any info on water pillows. do you have any links for background reading?

chris

I would guess it like in a "box of wine"

why did it blow up? I don't think it could have.. but it was a funny skit.

Pressure vessel, steam + alcohol

okay! thanks

google water tanks pillows, bergco.com is one of them. My first design criteria was to produce a pump (pull and push) using no electricity. I first used a pvc (i think) toothpaste tube. It pushes (primarily made for that) and pumps water when empty.

I remembered in high school, long time ago ... we did the unthinkable (at that age ... ) ie proving that the "fastest" way between 2 points is not necessarily a strait line. When i looked at my old sail boat i said to myself that it takes less energy to hoist up the front gib than to hoist the main sail on the vertical mast. F=ma and E= 1/2 mv2 came into mind. We have a dam near and walking up the hill is much less energy than climbing or diving from its 100 H. The highest i jumped was 70 ft , and it hurt, even feet first.

Later on in life, i filled my water bed and accidently fell on it, you guessed it, water went up the to the ceiling.

Now that i am designing a large catamaran with twin masts, i like to think that heavy anyway stuff could be used differently from its original purpose.

The micro hydro is slowly evolving but so far, what i had designed and thought is coming to be proven on the market. 15 years ago, my friend was not very happy to get rid of his analogue parabolic antenna, so i said use it for heating the pool using the pool pump pushing water through the focal pt and at night through a compost pile. It is still sitting there doing nothing and the pool is more a pond than a pool.

But pushing water with water pillows to cool a PV cell (otherwise it will cook) at the focal pt of a parabolica could create steam for a stirling eng. , create desalinated water and more said in previously. It is possible to calibrate flow, time and sunlight.

The MPPT maximum power point tracker (not a sun tracker) has been my first choice for solar flat or 3D panels because on a boat, changes in conditions is common if not tied at the dock.

The idea (on cat) is that the roof (anyway) is the parabolica, it collects rain and protects from it. Ie the focal pt will move, a half tube parab. is the choice. Can the parabiloca tube be very light and strong ? When i look at my surfkite, it can ... in order to maintain pressure in the struts, a water pillow bag can serv as backup with a gauge pressure meter. Who is pushing "squishing" the bag ? Heavy stuff found anyway on the cat.

For large qties of water storage, the cat (or a proa) is perfect, water is heavy but not in water, yes between the pontoons. I call it the Santa's isolated bag. On a lake, one can pump water from the thermocline to cool the chiller, refigerator, solar cell. It is only at +- 10 m from surface. Pumping and pushing water is energy consum.

oups, got to run, the wind is picking up and the snow still fast !

water is heavy but not in water, yes between the pontoons.

Water is heavy in water, air, a tank, etc. Its weight does not change as long as you stay on this planet. In a sailboat, is is far more efficient to carry water in a hull that has good hydrodynamics than to drag it through the water in a bag.

Most of the time, boats , especially cats are simply idle, at mooring, at anchor or at marina (among other things this is a promise to my wife). The daily needs aboard is +- 120 gal us, that is for 4 people. But the drinking water is only about 4 - 6 liters (1 -1 1/2 gal) per person/day. Water tanks are mandatory , ,even with a good water-maker reverse osmosis for example. One has to be carefull with the demeniralization of drinking water. A number of times, i fill an/few ice box with large solid ice cubes, it will last as much as a week depending on surrounding temp. and how many times one opens the ice box. Nevertheless, the need for water pressure for washing, showering, cooking, etc is essential and i prefer to work with distilled (1 time) water, we call it grab water. The advantages of distilled water in tanks is cleanliness. A little algea and other treatments will do the job.

So the Santa's bag is only for "farmiente" on the idle cat. But a well insulated bag will be great warm water storage for cool nights heating. Pumping water into piping in a nice cozy fireplace ... that's a nice combination with solar heating. I thought i was coming up with an outrageous good idea when i talked to my best friend about a jacuzzi in a lake, pool or in the ocean, it sort of exists but less sophisticated than my design and he was selling it !

It "boils" down to , again, energy for pumping ...

As an anecdote, we carried a pesticide hand pressure pump to the beach with distilled or simply tap water, the showers being far and not always working, it made a hit, especially for washing little feet before getting into cars and getting that sticky salt out laying on the beach.

"word salad"

thats a new one for me... and one that I need.. thanks!

Chris

Feel free to use that--(you may fire when ready, Mr Gridley.)

thanks.

as to mini-micro-hydro... I listen carefully to what CW has to say, and recognize him as the biggest authority I know on the subject... and he says... it won't work without a lot of head. (sorry charlie)

here is my previous crazy idea on the subject... stand-alone mini-micros dropped in a stream with a waterproof cable running between them. and then to a shipping container (of course) electrical grid tie / storage housing. I never really did any math on the subject... just pretty pictures...lol

cheers,

Chris

thank you! (for your answer applies to my idea too)

Sure!--or put a little squirrel cage under a spigot, with a generator attached. That would be nano-hydro. (But what the hey--"nano" is a great buzzword these days, and greener than a gecko.)

Yeah! You could charge a AA battery to run a flashlight to power a solar panel to run a pump to put water through the spigot.

I didn't really define that too close... but ya, submersible, high efficiency, etc.

chris

lightasmass-

Those look like the systems that used to be used towed behind a boat- OK for battery charging, etc., but unlikely to provide enough energy for much of anything else. Here is a more general link that shows a number of different approaches:

http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/Hydro/hydro.htm

Or here:

http://www.thesolar.biz/Harris_Hydro.htm

Or, from Chris' favorite Canadian Government web site:

http://canmetenergy-canmetenergie.nrcan-rncan.gc.ca/eng/renewables/small_hydropower.html

Note that, as with most alternative energy schemes, promoters are going to accentuate the advantages while down-playing the negatives. Furthermore, the generation system (in this case, the turbine/alternator combination) typically represents less than half the cost of a system required to get usable energy...

Thanks for the links. Full disclosure: I make part of my living designing and installing "alternative" energy systems. I live in an area where the grid is often not available or too costly to connect to. So, most of my systems are off-grid. Since I tend to be a little too honest with potential customers I have lost jobs after explaining to on-grid customers the cost realities (from production through consumption) of installing solar (pv) where the grid is readily available. Micro-hydro is a different story. In the right conditions a hydro set-up can pay for itself in a couple of years and then offer energy independence. I don't discourage people on the grid to install solar (pv) as I feel independence and self-reliance are very important qualities, but often people come to me with assumptions and expectations well outside the realm of possibilities. On that note solar heat (H20) is a very cost-effective investment and should be common-place for most homes.

One of the units I linked to was designed for oil platforms in Alaska and the other is a boat tow behind. The hydro I use are typically made by ES&D out of Canada or Harris out of California and have limits of about 2 kVA. I have also dealt with larger units made by Canyon Industries from Washington State.

Seems like we are on the same page with regards to "alternative" energy solutions- there are specific applications where they make sense and can be cost effective, but they are not cure-alls, and a lot of people get burned by buying in to the hype without a full understanding of the full system requirements and costs. Generally, the cost of the power source is only a fraction of the system costs...I, too, am a strong proponent of solar hot water heaters...

that Harris turbine is what I was looking for buy couldn't find. I believe it is featured in Bill Kemp's, The Renewable Energy Handbook. ( a former employer of mine)

"Or, from Chris' favorite Canadian Government web site"

actually my favourite ex-girlfriend works for Canmet...

Chris

Actually, the original Harris turbine was developed by a Southern California gentleman, and apparently his heirs have not been all that anxious to expand their market. Seems like a real Harris turbine is built to order after the order is received. This may have changed in the past couple of years. There used to be a Wiki page on the Internet describing the origins of the Harris, but this no longer shows up on searches. Somewhere in my archives, I have copies of this sort of historical information for anyone interested. The essential design of the Harris is a Pelton type turbine. Usually sold coupled to an automotive alternator.

Check out AEESolar.com. Don Harris is no longer making his units, but has handed the business off to someone else. They now offer a high voltage unit which will put out 400 VAC unregulated with a AC-DC rectifier at the batteries allowing long distance (relative) transmission. One of the prohibitive costs of DC units had been the cabling costs for the low voltage DC transmissions.

thank you for these sites. If you haven't seen it yet, greenpowerscience introduces a "youtube" video on steam from solar using a stirling motor. The output seems interesting, not counting the potential for condensation water-making possibilities, and more.

I have not yet ruled out the Tesla turbine, could it be interesting to create vacuum for water boiling, don't know yet. Just an idea, could this turbine, i call it the molecular staking turbine, be adapted with salt filters membranes hit by a water jet, then, an air jet for blowing off the brine .

As we all know, a puppy chasing its tail is 110% efficient....

who are you calling a puppy!

I'd suggest dividing this into several threads, with a clear question in each thread.

Using hydropower generated by a difference in elevation is a non-starter unless you have a tremendous amount of water and a large elevation change. Consider that one hp is 33000 pound-feet per minute.

Well, that ups the ante: change of phase is more energy-intensive....

These all are old ideas re-emerging from time to time! Why do you want to waste time on something proven useless? Why don't you put your mind to invent something nobody thought about before?

Independent mind does not need any directions to invent new and useful!

Water pillows... as it relates to this thread. Also called Water Bladders.

Basically big baggies.

So all you need to do is imagine a house balanced on top - to supply pressure for a turbine - and I think you have the OP concept

you got it, OP concept ? what does OP means ? I was looking at my goose neck faucet and did very basic experiments. The water comes out about 13mm (1/2") diam. very soft to the tough, the diameter shrinks, turbulences appear, a twist seems to occur the same direction as a huricane ... N.Hem. and the same water is much heavier and if it were to go down further, the water molecules will separate , i don't remember why but could guess it is evaporation. F=mg , but what if i could twist water "like a screw" like a nice football throw spiral, i think it would increase its performance.

At a such small scale it looks armless, but on top of a 50 ft tower (a mast, antenna, flag mast) and into a long funnel, i am beginning to see a purpose for a series of Tesla turbines, from skiing experience, water is as hard as sand at 42 mph, the faster the harder. If one can calibrate the maximum water speed acceleration (f=mg) with an initial push from a compressed bag and also use the flow for vacuum. We begin to be in business. Lithium batteries don't mind fast powerfull charging, they are expensive but the costs will go down. But the battery would be mainly for current quality. DC is the way to go "with caution"... and a MPPT is really the best way to go. Day time is for solar, steam, usually wind, sailing turbine genset, night time is for "pillow" time, funny isn't it !

The never resting mind prevents eilzheimer brainer paralysing kind. Almost flunked poetry.

Sorry, won't work. Water needs to be contained in a vessel to create the pressure to drive a turbine. In your scenario, 50 feet would be 21.5 psi, with 100 gpm would produce 500 watts/ hour or 12kVA/day. You would need 144000 gallons/ day to do this.

"the water molecules will separate" is from wind resistence.

"OP" stands for Original Post or Poster at thread head = you here.

"a twist seems to occur the same direction as a huricane" this is Coriolis effect

Houses don't weigh much. So you are aiming for a 50 ft head ~25 psi you need 25 x 144 = 3600 lbs per sq foot of floor area.

Or a 1000 sq ft house needs to weigh 3600000 lbs = ~1600 tons.

In timber, this house might weigh 16 tons or even 30.

But as you can see there is an issue with the decimal places.

Thanks, i am not surprised at the house weight, an all concrete "like a large septic tank"concrete house is cheap and could be well adapted for the "bag squeezing" project.

Now we have alot of storage potential for solar energy and certainly enough flow for radiant heating floor/walls and ceiling (oups ceiling is not for heating but for AC) yes it works as assistance to the AC split unit.

Good comments !

Then you will also have to adapt the pump to give higher head for lifting the house. It would be interesting to see some knowledge of basic arithmetic behind such concepts as this.

From memory, concrete is about 2.7 tons/m³. The 1000 sq ft is about ~92 m². So that's ~250 tons for a metre thick slab. So 6 layers may do it.

I.e. you need a lot less bag area than house area - like 1/100^th.

This presents a house rise and fall 'challenge', to get a useful volume to height.

Seems like a lot of expense and effort is needed to design and build a 250+ ton concrete house just to save yourself from having to buy a $100 or less battery.

Around here concrete costs about $40 a ton when the volume cost is converted into a mass cost. That 250 ton house will cost around $10000 for the concrete and about that much more for the rebar plus double that for the labor to have it formed and constructed. You are ate $40K for a bare concrete form about the same square footage as a finished trailer house is. Triple your cost again to finish it out to a decent livable structure. So now you have a $120,000 house that can produce about the same stored energy as a common $50 car battery does in one cycle.

Add in the property and other expenses that go with any new house and you are likely pushing $250,000+ invested. I just don't see where that adds up to being worth the time money and effort involved.

It sounds real good and all until reality and basic practical math are applied then its just expensive and nearly useless in all realistic aspects of the design.

You are correct mentionning that the effort is great for so little energy return, but if we integrate simple standard solar heat storage, the infrastructure is already there. A windmill is very popular in windy areas, but grid power is outrageously cheap in Quebec, but in some areas they seem to be viable.

the purpose of this exercise is for emergency housing and boating. For emergency housing, we think unused containers can be interesting too, but not at any price, my friend is doing a test project.

If i may go back to the concrete house. A little house 32ft x 32ft x 8 ft ceiling , about the size of my ex mobile home in florida in sq footage. (2 bedrooms 1 bathroom)

floor slab 32x32x,75=768 cub ft, walls 32x4x8x,5 (6in walls) = 512 ft3. Total 1280 ft3 , not counting the openings, the openings could be about 30% so 512 x ,7 = 358 ft3

1126 ft3 x ,028317 = 32 m3 x 156 cad = 4992 cad$. Steel rods and delivery at 1500 cad should be OK. This is a concept with exposed concrete (washed agregate)colored concrete floors , all electrical are surface and in concrete. Add roof 12,000 cad , plumbing 10,000 cad, elect. 6000 cad, insulation 717 ft2 at 5$ = 3585 cad, kitchen and vanity cabs 5000cad, partitions 4x16+32x8= 768 ft2 x 5$painted =3840 cad, doors and moldings 1400 $ , windows and ext doors 10,000 $, add land prep , permits, trash and contingencies 12,000 $ , total so far 70,317 $ + profit 10548= 80865+ taxes 5% Fed and now 8,5% (Qc) !#&F! can recup some of them add 8000 cad , total 88865 cad ,a contractor is now bidding and he thinks he can beat that price with less "luxury". With land, we try to beat the magic total of 100k$. But land is getting expensive because cities can't open streets fast enough, sewage water treatment plants don't keep up ! we may consider a self sustainable project.

That house weighs about 150000 lbs , sit that on a bag 30' x 30' x 2' and see how much flow will come out of a half inche hose. A ramp takes care of the height changes.

First we raise (oil jacks, can use water) the house at 4 feet, it pumps up with the bag (with pulleys) untill it comes down to 2 feet and then it pushes the rest down to almost 0.

This is a evolutive concept, at an early stage , at below 100k$ we think it is an interesting concept for low income families. This is not considering DIY assisted.

In a house, i don't always need a water bag, in a boat, i need a tank or a bag anyway so the concept is really more for off the grids housing and boating.

Thank you for your interest.

The energy of a 150,000 lb house falling 2 feet is 300,000 ft-lb. If this fall occurs over an hour, you could light a 100 watt light bulb with the energy transferred in that one hour period (but only if the system were 100% efficient, which it would not be). Somewhat more realistically, you could expect 25% round trip efficiency, if you wanted to (for example) pump the house up by filling the bag, and then use the pump motor as a generator to power something very very very tiny.

The energy stored from lifting a 150,000 lb house (even ignoring the legal, ethical, engineering, construction, and safety issues) is about equal to that stored in a 10 AH 12V battery (which can also light a 100 watt bulb for about an hour.) (You can get a 20 AH 12 V lawn tractor battery for $22 at Walmart.)

That house weighs about 150000 lbs , sit that on a bag 30' x 30' x 2' and see how much flow will come out of a half inche hose.

This would be an incredibly costly experiment. Maybe it would be better to calculate the pressure, from which the flow could be calculated. The pressure would be 150,000/129,600, or 1.15 psi. That pressure (about 1/60 of "city" water pressure) through a half inch hose would provide a trickle.

It's hard to follow what you are planning and why. It seems as if you are thinking of using energy to lift a house and then use what's left of that energy later by allowing the house to fall. Is that the idea?

If that is the idea, in what way is the concept better than charging a $22 battery which would provide twice the energy storage... at higher efficiency to boot?

How about mounting the house on a ball-bearing-supported vertical shaft right below its center of gravity. Spin the house to store energy. Spin it fast enough and you could walk on the walls.

Probably best it isn't square then.

Maybe you (and some others) didn't pick up the "6 layers" concept?

That's a 'slab' 6 metres thick to get the pressure head nominated in a 'same area bag'

I also indicated you need to use a smaller bag - meaning more stroke to get a meaningful volume. 100th bag means 100 times nominated stroke. You will need a long ramp.

It's not an unreasonable concept to store energy "in gravity", but you have to get the math and reality right.

A house balanced on bag/s is not going to be "easy" or "a cheap structure".

P.s. Assuming the boat is floating, per your previous comment - I have no idea how a bag under a boat could possibly store gravitational energy.

So where are $100,000+ homes considered low income housing?

Where I am from people on low income don't have a $100K to spend on a home rather what they do have is cheap ass trailers, worn out houses, and run down old apartment complexes at best where purchase price costs are in the low $1000's or rent is in the low $100's a month.

As far as emergency housing goes that too is at the opposite end of what you are proposing. Emergency housing is like camper trailers or shipping container dwellings. small, light weight, and very portable meaning a single unit is able to be moved with little more than a good full sized pickup which relates to having a gross weight of under 5 tons fully loaded.

The energy required to recharge the pillow will simply be more than the energy harvested by the discharge, because it will not be 100% efficient. You may engineer systems like this to effect higher rates of discharge for shorter periods, but there is no magic here, only the endless search for perpetual motion.

You are correct, but if we consider that we can recharge with the bag itself and use another bag. How, first jacking the house is man handled, this is an off the grid emergency housing situation. Using a pulley concept, the house pulls up the bag's top and as the house lowers itself to the bag top level, it pushes the bag down.

It always amazes me when i see a child winging, if he had to lift himself to such heights the effort would be much greater, the pendulum effect is the lever with minimal effort.

I beleive more in the minimal kick motion than the perpetual motion.

It's hard but if it was easy, it would be no fun.

An off the grid emergency housing situation with a massive concrete slab, rigged so that it can be lifted with a pulley? Even I can look at this scenario and recognize the problems, first, poor engineering premise and second inadequate return of useful energy on monetary investment. If you can manhandle the lifting of this slab, you could manhandle the generation of power (potential) that it will contain. Now i feel like someone is playing April fools on me. I am reminded of the car with the windmill mounted on it.

This is no april fool, and we have done more complex bldg stuff. At this stage, i will test a small project and see what we can do. Producing electricity with hydro bags is not the priority although the infrastructure will allow it in combo with windmill. Steam stirling genset via a parabolica sunlight concentration and cooling the PV cells with a water flow looks more interesting short term. The container recycling project is underway.

How are you going to fill the bags after they are discharged? What is the volume of the bags?

all total 120 gallons ich. Unless it is a "santas in water bag", then it is a "squish" process.

You probably have toothpaste or some paste medicine (like myoflex) or tanning paste in a pvc (i think) tube, if you have one empty, don't throw it away, empty it clean, and fill the sink, unscrew lid squeeze the tube, put it in water and it will fill itself only with the memory of the pvc. Even under the running water, if it doesn't catch air, it will fill itself.

Imagine a pvc tank with some modifications. ie add velcro or handles on top of the tube.

If you pull it up, it will fill faster than memory only,even if you have a hose screwed as lid, it will pump like crazy. This is a great pump for pumping water for an ice rink on a lake far from power ... it works and you don't need to stay out in the cold pumping by hand (can't cheat using a fisherman gas powerdrill), can't be too cold otherwise it freezes. You stand on the bag, you tie a dozen bungies to the handle, stretch the bungies one by one and hook them onto a couple hockey sticks spanning between 2 chairs, you will need them later for resting and put your skates on. Once it is filled, slide the bag where you want to flood. This is a simplistic idea but it worked well for repairing the nasty cracks due to the expansion of the 4 x 1 miles ice rink. Later on a smart neighbor brought long hoses, he forgot to unscrew it after use and his fitting iced busted.

Back to our boat bag, i could use bungies, but it is more fun to make use of heavy stuff sitting lazily anyway on the boat. This is when the pulleys come into action. First you raise the heavy stuff with a winche, i use my big sail blocs to lift heavy stuff and i lift my catamaran "alone" on the beach. It's catching on ... once the heavy stuff is at DOUBLE the height of the bag, you pin it. You attach a strong line (anyway in your boat) that you don't use at anchor ... use the proper knot ... to both the "handles" and to the "lets say fuel tank", the weight of the fuel tank has to be at least the weight of the water tank, or maybe not. Find strong pulleys, you might find those on a boat as spare parts or elsewhere, attach the pulleys to the frame of the boat, if the boat frame is not strong enough, change the boat ...

The lazy object will relentlessly want to go down hence pull the line that will pull (pulley up) up the handles, once the couch potatoe reaches its comfort zone it will have pulled a pin to release the pulley from its "moorings". The pumpng is done, one can pump from the thermocline at some 33 feet deep in a lake or cold ocean for cool water.

This is the dirty bag, now it will transfer , with all of the motivation of the hard working thing it is , the dirty water throught proper filters for decontamination "Dr H2O" into another tank lower than the first tank and another "guest" raises, an antibacking flow valve is necessary. Once the "guest" has the "full" comfort of his couch, he pulls on a pin that releases a valve pin that is ready now for distribution to taps, showers, etc.

The idea is to have small diameter conduits so that the process takes the desired time for the "human" factor. For example, one can have his double bed with can food "could be beer" stored under on a cantelevered bed, at the pivot, the weight is greatly increased (the bed is on a leveling pin) and there is no weight on the trampoline, so a sleep time process is a good idea for me. You "climb a little at night, captain's delight" " lowering in the morning, captain's showering" , not good at poetry !

If you have a better poem, "yes you can". For the rest, you get the idea. I don't think the electricty supplied by such process could make more energy than needed for the LED anchor light and night corridor LED lights. But it is fun and we are at anchor. I use garden solar lights on the docks, they look good , cheap and corrode like crazy.

Finaly, this tranfer process can serve a purpose to cool photovoltaic boosted cells during the day time frame when we also know the beginning and the end of the sun. To the captain's warning or delight.

Happy new year!

Oops, sit on a cat , break ??? uh, wind? Sorry. Should be CATamaran, that was near catastrophic, close one.

Will this become the OP's new avatar?

That would be very fitting; Yellow cat using recycled materials , moving something a distance, definition of work, 299% increase in efficiency .

looks like me with the kite ! hahahahaha, how can i copy this ? i want to send it to my friends. This is perfect recycling of energy, for not being an "ironman" i can be the "fartman" of the Lords, but we will "all" keep it as a secret on the "web". Don't miss the sequel(s) ! The Potter compost. Good work and happy new year !

try to right click it & either save the image or copy the url....

Presently we use a wakeboard boat that weights as much as 3500 lbs, my wife lifts it up 2 feet above water by hand in less than 5 minutes (that's when talking !). Your idea about leg power is one that i promote for years. The human body is made to carry its own and more load i say 1/3 of your body weight load is a minimum for a top shape person. Walking up a stair lets say 9 feet vertical, takes merely no time or effort for us, stand (4 people) at an average of 175 lbs on top of an elevator platform and then crank (pulley) up lets say a 150 hp outboard + tanks you may have to "brake". This is how we adjust the docks height, we winch up the dock using inserted pipe into the legpipe we end up adding our weight to the dock but it is easy to do, i was stupid not to think about using my weight with a pulley and the legpipe, i'll do it this coming spring.

When i developped the new cat concept, i looked at most of the existing cats and i sat down with my best friend who was a sailing racer, and we decided to spec a cat multihull for what it is that we wanted to do with it. I had a major set back from his death from brain cancer and i delayed the project for 3 years. He was more the electrical and mechanical expert from his long past marine experience and i am more on the space and structure aspect of it. I sail different cats and kites but not as good as he was.

Your point about using stationary bike(s) has been intimetaly related to the project, the electrical power generated by bikes is not much, but we need the exercise anyway (warm up for surfkiting) and the bikes at shore anyway and if i can combine wind / water / bike / steam with solar, on the same genset and that genset being the motor as well, that seemed a good idea. I realize it is not , but i realize also that with a good MPPT (maximum power point tracker) that i can push power into my grid batteries AND possibly into a public power grid for $ credits (kind of energy storage !) i will try it.

Like many times, when one comes up with a new or weird concept we are laught at.

In 1986 i and a friend came up with a new concept for balconies and handrails, we were laught at, but now it and part of it is still up there even in highrises in Toronto, Montreal, etc. I am a retired architect but my patience is my greatest asset.

Coming back to the BIKE POWER , one idea that i came up with was to fill the tires with water, but a better idea is to wrap around the wheel with chains and wires (spare stuff anyway on the boat) in order to create an inertia. For the heart stationary biking is better with uphill and downhill variations , in combo with little wind and little water it could work. I posted this thread as mini hydro elect plant because the basic element i work with is water and steam. If you know catamarans, you know it is speed and space. Once it gets going a draged water turbine makes sence.

The emergency housing on a bag is seemingly not interesting for electrical power generation, but for the simple fact of heat and cold storage and pumping possibilities, it remains on the TO DO desk for now.

Thank you for your time and research for helping me create something that makes sence. I am sorry if i make spelling mistakes, don't have time for dictionary and i speak french. I'll get better at it. Again, i was not Einstein at poetry.

Clean water in the bag in the morning, captain's shaving !