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Fibreglass Boat

12/30/2010 8:25 AM

Hello all. I am planning on making a fibreglass boat, only about 12 foot. It is going to be made using a mould, then reinforcing with wooden bulkheads etc. It would be a light recreation boat, possibly have a cabin and be a displacement or dory style hull. Maximum power would be a 20hp 2 stroke outboard, but for the moment a 3.5 hp. For a boat of this style and usage requirements, how many layers of 600gm CSM fibreglass would you use? This is very much in its primary stages, and is required for ordering of materials. Regards, Bondy

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#1

Re: Fibreglass

12/30/2010 8:45 AM

Don't do it. If you plan to build it from just fiberglass, it will be expensive, flimsy, difficult and messy. The fumes are a killer, too.

I've done a number of wet layups in my time(polyester and epoxy), but would never even attempt a project of this scope.

Perhaps a honeycomb or wood core with a glass outer skin, but never just glass and polyester. Pros use a chopper gun and spray chopped glass and polyester into the mold, with a gel coat on the mold side and MAYBE a layer of woven glass inside.

Check out some of the DIY sites on the net.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Fibreglass

12/30/2010 9:14 AM

I saw a show a while back that showed the factory process of building a Boston Whaler boat. Even on a small scale, it didn't look like something that should be attempted as a DYI project. Your right about the fumes too!!!!! NASTY.

Like I've found out too many times, sometimes usually, it's cheaper and better to buy something than to try to make it. Not to mention, the resin and a lot of the other materials are very expensive when purchased in small quantities at retail price.

Now this looks cool!

http://e-fishingnews.com/best-review/138

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#3

Re: Fibreglass Boat

12/30/2010 1:20 PM

Okay, I have to be contrary here. I am a serious do-it-yourself-er, and I refuse to believe that there is anything that doesn't require serious specialized equipment(such as IC fabrication) that the individual craftsman cannot do just as well as a manufacturer. In fact, somethings can be done better, because you won't be cutting every possible corner to try to control costs.

As for the boat, I have done a few wet lay-ups myself, and yes, the fumes are nasty. Never-the-less, two layers of cloth should be adequate. Lots of telescope builders make their tubes this way. Read up on the proper techniques and curing times, and have at it. Just make sure you have good ventilation.

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Fibreglass Boat

12/30/2010 1:49 PM

What happens to the telescope when it hits a rock?

I'm sure it can be done. It's a pretty lofty DYI project. I'd do a lot of research before even thinking of getting started.

I'm a pretty serious DYIer too, but as I get older, I think a lot more about the time and expense involved in a project that may or may not work. Especially in a case like this, where I can go out and buy one for less than $1000 and be fishing the next day.

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#6
In reply to #4

Re: Fibreglass Boat

12/30/2010 2:00 PM

I have seen what happens to a Glastron-Carlson when it hits a rock. In fact, I've repaired the damage.

Yes, this is a serious project, but it's very do-able. And the reality here, as I've already mentioned, is that the serious do-it-yourself-er, exercising all care, can do a far better job than any manufacturer that is working to meet a price-point. In all things, we get what we pay for.

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#11
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Re: Fibreglass Boat

12/30/2010 3:43 PM

Thank you for the support, I think it can be done, and if it fails, well I'll have a load of fibreglass to use round the house... And in regards to costs, often if you make it all yourself you can save a hell of a lot of money; if you have the time you can also get what you want, rather than what manufacturers tell you, you want.

Oh and Kramat, in when you say about it hitting rocks, remember all the old fibreglass kayaks that used to be around, people were more careful with everything then, they knew if they hit something they were in trouble, hopefully I will have the same idea.

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#5
In reply to #3

Re: Fibreglass Boat

12/30/2010 1:56 PM

You would NEVER get me in a boat made from only two plys of glass cloth with no reinforcement.

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#7
In reply to #5

Re: Fibreglass Boat

12/30/2010 2:05 PM

Ahem, the OC is planning upon reinforcing with wood bulkheads. And if you're uncomfortable with two layers, go with three. Cloth is stronger than matting, anyway, and lots of boats are built from matting only.

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#12
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Re: Fibreglass Boat

12/30/2010 3:45 PM

Thanks very much! You think 2 layers will suffice, someone told me 6 layers? Saying that, they now deny ever saying it, maybe its a sign... For finishing do you think a layer of gelcoat will do the trick?

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#15
In reply to #12

Re: Fibreglass Boat

12/30/2010 4:01 PM

Kind of depends upon how heavily you reinforce it. If you're going to go with an encapsulated wooden framework, I'd shoot for about 3/16" (or maybe 1/4") thick skin. That should amount to 2 or possibly 3 layers. Just be very sure to work the resin into the cloth thoroughly. Any bubbles or less than saturated cloth will end up being weak points. I used to wear surgical gloves and work the lay-up with my fingers.

As for the gel-coat, one or two layers, depending on how thick you lay it on.

One construction technique you might wish to consider would be to build the basic form using your wooden framework with a thin skin of marine plywood, and then encapsulate the entire assembly in glass. Just remember that whatever you decide, your transom and framework need to be stout enough to take the thrust of whatever engine you decide to use.

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#17
In reply to #15

Re: Fibreglass Boat

12/30/2010 4:09 PM

I think surgical gloves are a good idea regardless when you are using fibreglass, you hear all those stories about people getting it stuck everywhere. That and you don't want to glue your hands to the hull, the gloves could be a finishing touch. I think I could also reinforce the transom using struts going from the top of the transom to the sides of the hull to tie it all together, triangulate as much as possible. Thank you again for all your advice

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#22
In reply to #3

Re: Fibreglass Boat

12/31/2010 12:41 AM

The difference is, if your telescope tube cracks, you don't drown. In the US, you would probably not be allowed to launch the boat because you have to license it with the state you live in, and to do so it has to be inspected and approved by the US Coast Guard for safety and they will want to see your structural calculations and design drawings with the signature of the licensed Professional Engineer (naval architect) on them.

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#23
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Re: Fibreglass Boat

12/31/2010 12:55 AM

I'm in NY, granted, if you crack your telescope you will not drown. I have seen a lot of one off boats that were never inspected on the Hudson River. Some very experimental. I don't know what the laws are, I do know they vary everywhere like codes. I have worked on many of our boats all over the Country, and in most locations, I never dealt with the owner. Always dealt with the caretaker. In some states the caretaker would flip when we did a water test and the coast guard was patrolling. Some state required licensing of the operator. Most caretakers were not. These boats were also $250K boats and did 5-6 knots max, although some of them would plane out at 12-14kts. Fully electric. So none of them could outrun the Coast Guard in certain locations. So these inspections only apply in certain states and on certain bodies of water. Similar to all codes. But, best to be safe than sorry.

Build it with 10 coats and reinforce everything!

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#42
In reply to #3

Re: Fibreglass Boat

12/31/2010 3:10 PM

two layers of cloth should be adequate

Hardly. He's considering CSM, which is not commonly called "cloth"... but in either case, two layers is not adequate.

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#8

Re: Fibreglass Boat

12/30/2010 2:10 PM

Oh, the transom should be built from 3/4" marine plywood, encapsulated in glass, with stringers running between the bulkheads. The stringers and bulkheads should also be encapsulated. You know, with a 20hp outboard, this thing is likely going to get up on plane no matter what hull form you use.

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#10
In reply to #8

Re: Fibreglass Boat

12/30/2010 3:40 PM

Thank you. I was planning on going thicker the better for the transom, and make it wide enough for 2 engines, just to be on the safe side. In regards to planing, I recently almost got a 16ft displacement hull planing with a 25hp long shank outboard; I think it would have planed had we been able to trim the engine (The trim was rusted up)

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#9

Re: Fibreglass Boat

12/30/2010 3:32 PM

Here's my 1973 Steury. Entire boat, trailer, motor, electrical, everything...was about $2000..........well, I have to admit, I painted a house as a swap for the motor. The restoration/redo took about a month on and off. that was all the boat work I wanted.

I'm just saying, sometimes it's just as fun and challenging to fix up an existing boat, as it is to start from scratch. I did all of the cutting, finishing and electrical on this one.

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#13
In reply to #9

Re: Fibreglass Boat

12/30/2010 3:49 PM

Thank you, that boat looks a good bit of fun; I like the carpet, its a nice touch, how do they stand up to getting wet? As you say, it is fun to fix up an existing boat, this year I have restored a 16ft cabin cruiser throughout; new wiring, flooring, seating, engine, and would have done the paint too had it not been sold without me knowing. Having done that this year, I also have a 20ft dory hull cabin cruiser to fix up, that can wait until next winter; I want to make one of my own and just have a bit of a playaround boat if you get what I mean?

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Fibreglass Boat

12/30/2010 4:01 PM

You've had some experience then. Just one more thought.......I'd go thicker than 3/4" on the back, a lot more if you want to hang two motors on it.

Good Luck!!!!! Make sure to take some pictures both during and after construction, and post them on CR4........This is always a good place to do some bragging on DYI projects. (Successful ones anyway). Keep us posted!

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#16
In reply to #14

Re: Fibreglass Boat

12/30/2010 4:05 PM

Yes, some experience, forgot to mention about fibreglassing new ribs into the hull of the boat, had to do that too, but it all will prove useful. I most certainly will post pictures of it coming to shape; I was thinking about also doing a time lapse video of it... Could prove interesting. Cheers

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#20
In reply to #16

Re: Fibreglass Boat

12/30/2010 11:22 PM

Have you given any thought to using electrics vs ICE? I did all the electrical for Elco while they were in business. All our boats were 100% electric. I was in process of designing the 3rd and final drive for the market when Bob shut down the Company. In the later years, all the Hulls were fiberglass. In the Golden years they were all wood. I have no info on fiberglass as I didn't work with it at all and stayed far away from the fumes, same with the gel coating.

In 2008 I installed the first 10HP experimental drop in drive in a Hunter 16FT Sailboat. Replaced a 16HP Diesel. We went out on the water, the guy piloting it was very surprised that it out performed the 16HP ICE and you could talk normaly. The economy really took it's toll on the boating industry. Hunter took some major hits, no orders placed, Elco went dark once more.

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#35
In reply to #9

Re: Fibreglass Boat

12/31/2010 6:04 AM

Is that a 25 short shaft on your boat? Fair play if you got that for painting a house, they cost a small fortune... Still, it looks a good set up; when on full plane and turning do you get ventilation on the prop?

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#36
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Re: Fibreglass Boat

12/31/2010 7:21 AM

I got a good deal on the motor. The guy who's house I painted owns a boat repair shop...........I did have to pay him to remove the very old 2 stroke and install this motor, 25HP 4 stroke w/ electric tilt and trim. It's a sweet motor.

Since the boat originally just had bench seats, I really had to pay attention to weight distribution. With a higher center of gravity that comes with the raised seats, it does get a little squirrelly in rough, choppy water.

Originally, I did experience some cavitation, as well as taking a while to plane out. These were a great investment and took care of the problem nicely.

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#18

Re: Fibreglass Boat

12/30/2010 10:57 PM

Building a mold for this project will be almost as much work as building wooden boat.

You can buy good plans and instructions for a few dollars.

Know you enjoy this stuff, but a , "Stich and glue." boat would give good results and can be sheathed on glass if you wish.

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#19

Re: Fibreglass Boat

12/30/2010 11:19 PM

You will need a respirator with goggles included. Believe me. I worked in fiberglass for only a few years and now my lungs hurt every day. I also have eye problems from it. I used surgical gloves but still had it in my hands. You can't get away from it. And the fumes from the hardner (MEK peroxide which is a carcinogen) can still absorb it through your skin too even using a respirator. You sound determined to do it so I urge you to take safety precautions. I now have problems with chronic bronchitis and eye inflamations which makes my eyes burn frequently and makes it hard to see. (I just got over bronchitis and I quit working in fiberglass over 4 years ago so it doesn't go away.) If it were me, I would build a beautiful wood boat using the no fumes epoxy. But that's just me. Good luck.

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#21

Re: Fibreglass Boat

12/30/2010 11:28 PM

If I may add my tuppence worth.

I'd be of a mind to lay at least 5 layers if it is to be the main supporting member to give you a thickness of around 5/16" to 3/8". If you build the boat in ply then sheath it in fibreglass you need lay only 2. Some shonks skimp and just do one layer, which is a really dodgy way of doing it.

As for the transom, aim for a thickness of 1 1/2 inches, Most low/medium sized Outboard brackets can clamp up to 2"s. If your planning on 2 outboards then it won't harm to brace the transom against the keel and rearmost stringers. The transom can never be too strong. While your boat is only going to be 12' long putting a 20hp outboard on will stress it somewhat. The 13' Ghost Dinghy flies with a old school 6hp Evinrude loaded with all my fishing stuff, esky, car battery. My dinghy is rated to 10hp.

You can save a few shekel's by using Luann(structural) Ply instead of Marine ply the main difference is the selection of timber. Marine ply timber is selected for finish Luann uses the same marine glue but the timber will have the some cosmetic flaws. If its hidden by 2 layers of mat resin and gel coat it doesn't matter.

Ensure that you "resin coat" all the ends of the ply after you have trial fitted the pieces. Resin coat the faces of the transom pieces where they meet to avoid the opportunity of rot. Nothing kills a boat faster than a rotten transom. Yes transoms can be replaced, some blokes make a good living from it, but its a PITA.

As for handling Fibreglass resin then PPE is required, surgical gloves are ok, but test them for "durability" against Acetone, which is the usual clean up agent. Nothing worse than having the gloves dissolve on to your hands while cleaning up.

I certainly encourage you with your endeavour, I'm itching to build another boat to replace my "Ghost Dinghy" (Its painted dark grey) with something bigger. But the hand brake says no more projects till the others are done...

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#24

Re: Fibreglass Boat

12/31/2010 2:04 AM

Why not build your boat out of 4 or 5mm ply then encase it with 200gm fibreglass cloth inside and out. You will end up with a much stronger, lighter boat. (I've built several boats this way & am now building the Woods Gypsy, designed by Richard Woods)

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#25
In reply to #24

Re: Fibreglass Boat

12/31/2010 2:10 AM

The above guest is me, didn't realise I wasn't logged in

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#26

Re: Fibreglass Boat

12/31/2010 2:12 AM

Of course the transom would have too be a lot thicker, say 18mm+ ply

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#27

Re: Fibreglass Boat

12/31/2010 2:15 AM

Use gloves. The only fiberglass job I ever did was on the bottom of a 14 foot cedar strip planing hull. I had neither gloves not an adequete amount of acetone to clean the uncured resin off my skin. Soap and water, even mixed with sand, don't work. It took more than a week for the resin to wear off parts of my bod.

Anything more than 3.5hp will be useless on a 12 foot displacement hull unless you are trying to make headway against a serious wind. If you plan to hang a heavy engine on the transom make sure the hull design has enough beam back there to keep the boat reasonably level with you at the tiller and an otherwies light load. 4 feet is about the minimum if it's a planing hull and you want to get on a good plane. A light boat could easily get you above 30mph. A wide beam dory at 12 feet will likely plane with 20hp if there isn't too much curve in the flat bottom; but the handling will be strange to say the least.

You really should think seriously about what you want out of this boat. The specs you've already stated do not suggest anything like a satisfactory boat design. How about sharing in detail where and how you want to use the boat as well as how you plan to store, transport and launch it. Example: The only practical cabin I can think of on a 12 footer would be on a fairly wide beam sailboat or novelty boat(like a mini tug boat) with a displacement hull. Even a short deck and windscreen would take up valuable space on a 12 foot boat.

I'd strongly suggest you use a professionally designed hull shape. There are free plans that can be found on the internet as well as plenty of low cost plans if you are able to work from a tabulated set of dimensions (table of offsets). Check out stitch and glue plywood construction methods. If you must have all fiberglass such as a boat that will live at a permanent mooring you can still use internal wood structural members. But what you end up with will be fairly heavy for its size.

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#28
In reply to #27

Re: Fibreglass Boat

12/31/2010 2:18 AM

I'm in Total Agreement with Ed. There are even free plans out there if you search for them

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#29

Re: Fibreglass Boat

12/31/2010 3:55 AM

Aside from a few way off correct answers regarding the motor, the question is moot,my last boat "was" a dory with a new 30hp,no way a 20 will give you anything but a pensioners day out putt putt with glass, especially a cabin,

you are trying to build an air conditioner with a hair dryer motor, get a BIGGER ENGINE then go for it

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#34
In reply to #29

Re: Fibreglass Boat

12/31/2010 6:01 AM

20hp should easily get it up on the plane if I decide for a vee hull or similar; I often drive a vee hull 3m rigiflex which will plane with a 9.9; which makes it very economical and quiet. And a 25 on the same boat will almost catch a 40 on a 12ft rib. Its all good fun.

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#30

Re: Fibreglass Boat

12/31/2010 5:05 AM

I was too lazy to read every single post here, but of the aprox 50% that I did read, I agreed with them all.

A modern fiberglass boat is made in a "sandwich" form with a layer of foam or wood or something to stiffen it up and to insulate the boat as a pure fiberglass boat would "sweat" on the inside and make problems......as well as not being stiff enough......

A proper really thick sandwich will also help to give a boat extra emergency buoyancy just in case of a "hole" too.

If you have to make holes through your hull, (real sailors consider ANY hole to be highly dangerous, you should too!) , the fittings should be of the finest quality, fitted using the absolute best method available.....Where you can do something else instead and not have a hole´- do the something else....Sea toilets where allowed, are a particular problem for the safety of the boat.....

Remember that brass has no place on a proper boat as it loses it's zinc over time and becomes porous and friable......even some lesser qualities of Stainless Steel will rust!!!! Chrome, unless of the finest quality, and kept well sealed, will rust in about 5 minuutes.....the copper layer must be made REALLY thick to have any chance at all......but really its better not to have it at all.....

To me, a 12ft boat is simply too small for anything (sorry!) other than a backyard pond, and even sailing alone, I would say go for something at least 6 foot longer.......more being better......but alone or with the wife(girlfriend/boyfriend an 18 footer will usually be just about useable......even a beamy 16 footer may just suffice.....

Best of luck.......keep us informed......

By the way, a finished hull, that you can outfit yourself is far healthier (fumes), far quicker and often it will look far better (no mould to make and finish) as well as being far cheaper in the long run.......

You will also need top quality tools as nothing blunts tools faster than fiber glass.....except maybe marble!!!

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#32
In reply to #30

Re: Fibreglass Boat

12/31/2010 5:48 AM

Hi Andy. 12 foot will suffice for my needs, it will only go on a 44 acre lake, and it will probably need to be stored on a trailer, for which space is very limited. It can be very basic inside, a cabin and small deck aft for driving. I will certainly keep everyone informed

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#31

Re: Fibreglass Boat

12/31/2010 5:25 AM

Hi Bondy111

Here at Explorer Marine we manufacture fast RIBs - Rigid Inflatable Boats - near you in Devon and Cornwall. See www.explorermarine.co.uk.

This thread has some quite contradictory opinions, and there is some confusion over manufacturing techniques.

Chopper guns are a factory process for high volume low tensile strength products and not suitable for DIY use. The chopper guns chop a glass roving into very short strand lengths and thus give low tensile composites. It takes a great deal of skill to lay a constant thickness.

I have some sympathy with the view that this project is a great deal of work when you could buy a cheap boat and refurbish it, withoutr all the work of making the plug and or mould for your own design. You may even be able to test a purchased old boat before purchase, rather than spending 6 months on the project and then being disappointed with the stability or hydrodynamics of the one you have made.

With regard to the actual question. We use a single layer of 300gsm CSM on the deck of our 8 foot rowing boat and 2 X 300gsn on the sides. The base of the hull is 450 + 300 with an inter layer of 2mm coremat to add thickness and rigidity.

For larger boats, our 15 foot RIBs use a very heavy layup of 3.2 kg per metre square, but for a slow speed smaller boat, I would run with gel coat - probably two coats, followed by 1 X 300 gsm CSM then 1 X 450 gsm CSM then 1 X 600gsm CSM over the whole hull and then add two more layers where the bulkheads are going and under each stringer, then bond them all in with two more layers of 450gsm CSM. The reason for this is that 600gsm is very hard to lay as a first layer or on a dry previous layer due to bridging of the more complex shapes.

A futher suggestion is for you to have a look at a useful book:The Glassfibre Handbook by RH Warring, about £5 from Amazon.

Also you may be interested to browse the forum of www.boatdesign.net which has many threads on DIY boatbuilding.

Anyway, good luck with the project, and give me a mail or a call if you want to discuss it further.

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#33
In reply to #31

Re: Fibreglass Boat

12/31/2010 5:56 AM

Thank you. Some of those ribs look great! Still, the cost of ribs in general is exponentially expensive, which reinforces my idea of DIY. In regards to the thickness of csm required, thank you also, it hadn't even crossed my mind as to bond it all together with different thickness'.

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#37

Re: Fibreglass Boat

12/31/2010 7:44 AM

Hi Bondy - I can send you the plans for this version if you want

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#38
In reply to #37

Re: Fibreglass Boat

12/31/2010 9:02 AM

Its even got its own prominade deck... Maybe all caravans should be like that

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#39

Re: Fibreglass Boat

12/31/2010 12:50 PM

for the money you could learn mig welding aluminum and make it out of marine grade 5086, I would steer away from fibreglass, between the cost of making a boat mold and spraying gel coat layer into the mold and laying up two layers of undercoat resin and glass before finish coat that will harden completey in air, there is just to much to learn for it to be worth the lesson, welding alum however has many applications, my freind has a 30ft alum guide boat that was built by custom and I am amazed by how well it has held up sitting in saltwater 24-7, the main issue for you is how much is it going to cost in materials and time, and how much is the end product going to be worth, fastest welding in world is mig aluminum, respirator is a must in both and having messed with toxic chemistry in fibreglass and polyurethane paint products I never want to again, lived to long to want lungs and liver or pancreas to be permantly ruined, research online for info there is a slew of sites that give info on materials and design, look up at http://www.boat-links.com/linklists/boatlink-30.html

great list of sites,,

Sincerely
Mitch retired peugeot mechanic and was the original "Sturgeon General," when owned boats

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#40

Re: Fibreglass Boat

12/31/2010 2:57 PM

I have a wooden boat shop and school, and wood recommend that you use marine plywood (such a Lloyds-certified okume) wood, saturated with epoxy and sheathed everywhere in one layer of 6 oz fiberglass cloth. An additional layer or two can be used on the bottom if you plan on beaching. The resulting structure will be lighter and stiffer than a fiberglass boat. If properly constructed and occasionally maintained, it will last longer than many fiberglass boats have (and will not be subject to blistering, as the typical fiberglass/polyester resin boat is).

On the other hand, if you already have the mould, then fiberglass can be fairly quick -- although the boat will be heavy. If you have to first make the mould, then you will have more than the effort required to build two boats (because the mould must be finished to a very high standard -- beyond the standard usually applied to even very nicely-finished boats).

For me, polyester resin is just not worth working with -- it is evil smelling, the fumes are bad for you, it's weak, and it absorbs water. CSM is in the same category ("stuff I don't like"). With CSM, you end up using a lot of resin, and the resin is the weak part of the matrix, so you end up with a heavy structure.

But, obviously, using a lot of CSM and polyester resin (and generally some cloth, too) has worked fine for production boat builders for decades. So if you like the idea of working with a smelly gooey, itchy mess...

I recently finished a 12 foot kayak for a customer which ended up at 19.9 lbs. (A production polyethylene kayak of the same size is about 50 lb.) Wood boats can be very light and strong, and woodworking is far more pleasant, in my view, than fiberglass work.

Feel free to mail me through CR4, and I can send you a link to my website, and can suggest plan vendors, etc.

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#41

Re: Fibreglass Boat

12/31/2010 3:06 PM

Instead of fiberglass I would advise to use Sudoglass figers that are 14 times stronger than steel and much lighter than fiberglass. Go google and type "sudoglass". Sudoglass was originally developed in Soviet Union from basalt rock for space rockets. It is very light and strong and costs about $1.5/ pound. You can get fabrics too and many more that would eliminate wood use completely and made your boat portable. I used that material for body of cylinder block for my invented engine it is excellent and withstands vibrations better than fiderglass.

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#43

Re: Fibreglass Boat

12/31/2010 3:12 PM

Hello from Cardiff, UK,(07779544192)....

1. Read about this stuff with interest!

2. Have DIY plans etc for a selway Fisher 14 ft Shetland dayboat... see his website. I do not know if I have a use for these plans.. possibly available? NOTE: althought the boat is longer than your needs, it has twin stern sponsons, so that the hull proper is about 12 ft long! Option of a cuddy, modest alterations for a cabin. 3/4 decked. Alterable galore.

This "well"( =sponsons)protects the outboard.Basically, a "Lute" stern of sorts.

3. The plans are surely convertible to Fiberglass/GRP, to suit--- designer will confirm etc.Suits a double-chined hard=board single use mould.. can be any plywood method too, though originally for steel hull!Has built in buoyancy tanks, meaty seaboat, sensible.

(I am into steel boats--- not too small for your use, on a freshwater lake?-- make of galvanised steel sheet, kept on a trailer, so corrosion of all types not too much of an issue.)1.6mm or 2mm-- have a suitable MIG welder, in mothballs. Can be arc welded too.

Am aware of Health and Safety issues...'glass,wood,metal too.

Have tools to cut and weld steel/aluminium too.

My preoccupation= Bristol Channel use, so should be OK for you-- conceived for fishing and diving in rough water... can have an inboard, and for outboard it is rated officially @ 20 HP!Your 3.5hp should be enough for your purposes.

Also, one response says that needs to be pro-designed-- as here, Paul Fisher has a degree in naval architechture... successful small boat designer. Top man!

Can be converted to sailing.

3. SCANTLINGS?--- I have Dave Gerr's book, "The Elements Of Boat Strength", and this TELLS YOU what you need to know as far as the amounts of glassfibre etc... ask me to work it out via this book---far cheaper now online to buy... get it!

This book simplifies the calculations needed, so that anyone with a shred of motivation and a pocket calculator, with an exponential function, can do it from scratch--- all I would need to know for any proposition here, is the length overall, beam overall, and at WL, LWL, depth of hull at half of the WL, from Gunwhale to base of keel... This Shetland 14(+ 12ft remember!) is at worst around a scantling no. of 0.22, so you then look this number up, on the graphs in his book(--or use that calculator if a fanatic) to give the layup...etc.. also for wood, alloy,steel, different forms of glassfibre inc sandwich--- approaching a panacea of information?

Gerr's book,@ 0.22 number suggests that 600 g/sq m, is about right and say 20% more for the lower half of the hull, from a few inches above the waterline, and say +50% extra around the keel... plus I suggest that 13% extra?It is the glassfibre that gives the strength, resin is just weight and cost, they say.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Then, the basic rules of layup are followed-- ask, though I do not claim serious expertise-- and off you go.Basically, for your needs, I might go for a minimum of four layers of CSM, since the overlaps are better staggered for better strength. I would also be tempted to use post-cured Isophthalic resin,since it might sit on a trailer with no/little distortion of the glassfibre shell?... etc.... too complex?-- I prefer a steel version... the weight from Glaspiles online is guaranteed the last time that I looked at + or - 13 %!... so add a bit on.Nasty fumes, said to be birth defects associated with styrene in resin--- small amounts needed her, make control easier, possibly get someone suitable to do it for you?-- again, I'd go for steel4u.Glass fibere is a floppy material, boats need rigidity overall, steel is inherently rigid when built--- go for it....Then, possibly use thinner resin, can tilt the mould, enhances strength in theory.Steel option stiill light enough for your needs?

The expanded skin of the boat on the plans means that lofting is not needed... so a DIY hardboard mould is feasible straight from the plans??

YES-- it is work, but quick to do.

On reflection--- the original steel version in galvanised sounds a fair alternative for you.VERY cheap to do, many steel suppliers, only three main keen glass suppliers in UK?Approaching vandal-proof aswell.

I am into a steel version as a project before a big'n'serious steel boat-- Tahiti awaits.

Each to their own.

Stuart.

stuartmcloed@tiscali.co.uk

feel free to come back to me--- I am a boat design anorak!

I might be totally wrong!

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#48
In reply to #43

Re: Fibreglass Boat

01/01/2011 6:14 AM

Thank you Stuart. Sounds like some good plans, although as the boat is for inland waterways, i'd imagine it would end up being quite over engineered? In regards to the steel; for the moment at least I think I should steer clear - At least until the welding skills increase enough to get consistently good joints, and as im sure an arc welder and angle grinder would suffice, I bet there is a lot of specialist equipment out there (Including safety aspects; I've had the green snot - Sorry to mention that). I'll check that book out, see what they say, but obviously I won't know until I have made the mould - Kinda the wrong way to do it, but never mind, eh?

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#44

Re: Fibreglass Boat

12/31/2010 3:24 PM

Instead of using wood it would be better to use laminated thin layers of Styrofoam. It is much lighter and could easily be shaped with hot air gun. Also less woven fiberglass is needed and the boat would be pretty immune when hits underwater rocks, if you plan crazy white water fishing trips.

Use good complete mask to protect your lungs and eyes and sealed overall when developing the boat. You could get such a nasty allergies, even to clean water, which would prevent you from using the boat. My friend has developed a small plane, but now he is allergic to everything even his own hair smell and he has never flew the plane. You do not want to end up like him. Do you?

I advice working outside, but if inside use at least 100 complete renewal of air in the room, so buy a large fan then.

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#49
In reply to #44

Re: Fibreglass Boat

01/01/2011 6:15 AM

I was planning on making it outside, rig up a tarpaulin over the area to keep any rain off - Never too careful in England, and go with it I think. Small amounts at a time may be the best answer also, to reduce fumes

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#51
In reply to #49

Re: Fibreglass Boat

01/01/2011 6:58 AM

Sounds good but do not forget that the cheaper resin only properly bonds when the previous layer is not quite fully hard.....or you will need to work a lot with Epoxy (far more expensive) to be able to ignore those types of problems....

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#58
In reply to #44

Re: Fibreglass Boat

01/01/2011 5:31 PM

Of course Styrofoam should never be used with polyester resin, which dissoloves Styrofoam. If you are going to spend the money for epoxy resin, then you might as well spend the money for one of the higher-quality core foams.

The perenial problem with foam cores is that the core is very weak and is very easily crushed on impact. Depending upon density, plastic foam cores range from 30 to 300 psi or so in crush (as compared with 4000-6000 psi or so for wood). Even plywood serving as a wood core is just barely adequate for bashing about in rapids. When foam core densities are increased enough to have meaningful crush resistance, then the weight and cost are higher than for wood.

Foam cores are used frequently in racing sailboats, where stiffness and light weight are favored, and tougness is sacrificed. This is a reasonable trade, because sailboats are rarely put into rocks. But in any boat that can be expected to bounce off rocks, foam cores fail locally, and allow the skin to fail as well... unless the skin is the same thickness used in a non-cored boat, in which case the foam core and inner skin is just added weight.

In production powerboats, high density foam cores are often used instead of wood (for stiffening and transoms) mainly to avoid the rot that is to some extent unavoidable with wood in polyester resins.

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#45

Re: Fibreglass Boat

12/31/2010 6:40 PM

Hi Bondy,

Even in the land of "More Fog and Rain than Sunshine", I am certain that you could start with a second hand hull and create what you want, than start with a mold and laying up a FG hull of your own design. You should first determine weather or not you are allergic to the chemicals used in the resin and thinner/cleaner. Some folks simply cannot do the fiber glass stuff.

Look for a boat dealer who may have a hull that needs the transom replaced. Likely you could get one for free. Here in Florida where I live they are plentiful. Older designs and mfg. boats are well known for having wood covered by FG that decays over time rendering the hull useless., as it is less expensive and more desirable to replace the hull with a newer model.

TMF

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#50
In reply to #45

Re: Fibreglass Boat

01/01/2011 6:19 AM

Thanks. Firstly, what is this thing you call sunshine, I don't recognise it here; all I see is rain fog and more rain! I have been looking for hulls for months now, but so far has not come up trumps, I wonder if they are all fibreglass around here now? As far as allergies go, I don't think I am allergic to the resin etc, as I have done some fibreglassing before, which had no effect, but you can never be too careful I suppose.

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#57
In reply to #50

Re: Fibreglass Boat

01/01/2011 5:07 PM

As far as allergies go, I don't think I am allergic to the resin etc, as I have done some fibreglassing before, which had no effect, but you can never be too careful I suppose.

With epoxy resin, most people can bathe in it with no initial adverse effect. Most epoxy resins don't even smell bad. But after a few or many skin exposures, suddenly some people develop allergic sensitivity, which can make it impossible to work near the stuff. So with epoxy, it is essential not to allow the stuff to get on your skin because you won't know (in advance) if you are one of the (many) people who can develop the sensitivity.

The fumes from polyester resin, on the other hand, are known to cause cancer, if one believes the state of California. Fumes also cause "nasal and respiratory irritation, dizziness, fatigue, nausea, and headache. High concentrations can cause narcosis (central nervous system depression).

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#46

Re: Fibreglass Boat

12/31/2010 10:34 PM

Bondy - Check out Amazon UK.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0071477926?ie=UTF8&tag=freeboatdesignre&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0071477926#reader_0071477926

The book is "Ultrasimple Boat Building: 17 Plywood Boats Anyone Can Build" by Gavin Atkin. The Amazon webpage shows other good books on the subject of stitch and glue construction. It's a slick method for small boat construction. Build yourself a boat that way to try out while taking breaks from planning and building your fiberglass mold.

I read Sam Devlin's book and found it quite intesting. Payson's books have been quite popular in the USA for many years.

Ed Weldon

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#47

Re: Fibreglass Boat

01/01/2011 5:29 AM

I must admit that wood is a very attractive way to build a boat.

There is a wet resin method (which I have forgotten the name of!!) that uses strips of thin, but very high quality plywood, tacked (stainless steel ones) onto a simple, cheaply made mould.

Many layers are made, each running diagonally against the last one and the result sanded down for a clean smooth finish before painting.

The mould is generally destroyed to remove it I believe (though this may not be true if more than one hull is required and care taken in design....

Basically it produces a one piece hull, immensely stiff and strong, but also very light in weight......I believe it was first used in the late 60s or 70s.......or at least, it came into use with a lot of hobby builders as the form/mould does not have to be made twice as with conventional fiberglass moulding.....nor is a high quality finish a requirement either......

On the downside, you must still protect your lungs etc. from the effects of resin fumes.......very important!! By the way, denatured spirits (Meths) removes/dissolves wet or sticky resin from skin or anything else.....

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#52

Re: Fibreglass Boat

01/01/2011 1:13 PM

Yes the resin stinks. Ticked off my neighbor doing a small job.

The best part of your project, is that you are doing it your self! To hell with the naysayers. Just go for it. You have done your home work.

It is tough sledding, but so is a cedar strip canoe.

You will either, succeed or sink and swim.

Good luck, and have fun.

I have to go now, as I am going to my garage and see what else I can set on fire by not paying attention to IC chip pin placement.

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#53
In reply to #52

Re: Fibreglass Boat

01/01/2011 1:26 PM

Wow, you manage to set the chips on fire? I normally tend to put them the wrong way round and then burn my fingers trying to take them out, if exploding LEDs, then I will understand. Take Care

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#54

Re: Fibreglass Boat

01/01/2011 1:30 PM

Well,

As one of the naysayers, all I ask is that you "blog it" if you ever really do it.

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#55

Re: Fibreglass Boat

01/01/2011 3:21 PM

Yup that'd be cool Bondy111's Boat Blog.

Don't forget to take pictures, we all love pictures here

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#56
In reply to #55

Re: Fibreglass Boat

01/01/2011 3:36 PM

I may just have request that when I come round to making it... for anyone who wants a laugh

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#59

Re: Fibreglass Boat

01/01/2011 6:20 PM

A couple other possibilities, neither of which I use routinely but that are used by some very patient people:

Cold molding: veneers stapled to temprorary frames (aka molds) in diagonal layers, glued and saturated with epoxy. (The strips are usually random length, about 4" wide and as much as 1/8" think.) You are effectively building your own plywood in place, with the advantage that the shapes can be compound curves. Loads of sanding and fairing required. Time: about 4 times that required for a stitch and glue boat.

Strip building: Often used for pretty wood canoes. Cedar strips (usually with bead and cove edges) are attached to temporary frames and glued edge to edge, usually with pretty ordinary wood glue. Loads of sanding and fairing and some intricate cutting near ends of many strips. All surfaces are covered in light fiberglass cloth (6 oz for a 16 foot canoe) in epoxy resin, which makes the cloth completely clear, so the boat can be varnished inside and out. Time: 5 or 6 times that required for a stitch and glue boat.

Here's a 25 lb 12 foot boat that takes about 1 week to build and finish as shown, using the stitch-and-glue method. It can be varnished inside and out, if desired, because the fiberglass cloth that covers every surface becomes crystal clear in epoxy.

This one was 19.9 lb, and is also 12 feet long. A more efficient structure, albeit more complicated to build. The paint is pearlescent, which does not show up in the photos.

Built this stitch and glue style too:

It doesn't float well.

Wood is pretty versatile stuff.

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#60

Re: Fibreglass Boat

01/01/2011 9:05 PM

You might like to have a look at this site,

http://www.fgi.com.au/

There are a number of manuals available for downloading and perusal.

They also build their own ski/race boats so the products and information is relative to your interests..

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#61

Re: Fibreglass Boat

01/03/2011 9:33 AM

At one time I built a general use wheel barrow. Materials were 1/2in. plywood, 1/4in.square wood strips, wood glue & used motor oil. It had a basic box shape & I fashioned the front panel as a hinged gate (hinges at the bottom). I used allthread as an axle & two 20in. wheels for mobility. The 'left' & 'right' panels had extensions suitable for installation of a cross member/handle. No big deal. The kicker was that I slopped on it a quite a bit of motor oil. Using a paint brush & a sponge I dipped into some used motor oil & 'coated' it 3 or 4 times. I had that thing outdoors. In the rain & sun for many (10?) years. It held water quite readily & never warped or leaked. I did wear out the gate (put too much weight on it) & the sides began to bulge because they were too tall without reinforcement.

another idea is to take two or three large inner tubes - stick a 12in. x 1in. board inside of them so that they are snugly inserted. These then are inflated to a reasonable pressure. The 12x1's are mounted to cross members which form the base for the upper platform. Three inner tubes can be arranged into a 'V' formation to aide in the stability & manuverabilty of the craft. Carlos

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