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The Greener Grass On The Other Side. G.G.S

01/27/2011 5:10 PM

The Greener Grass On The Other Side. G.G.S

Appreciative inquiry

Does or could the technology exist today to permit cancerous organs to be removed from the body for treatment?

Good Day to all

Please let me open with a thank you to a Member of CR4 who has assisted me phrasing this question or better questions. I will leave it to the member if and when he wishes to take credit for some of the editing,(italic). Thank You for assisting me in this endeavor.

For the professionals, practitioners the Doctors and Professors in this field of science, this must read like what the unobtainium threads read like to us. If the impossibility, absurdity of this approach could be easily explained I would appreciate it. Please forgive my ignorance. I have no applied knowledge in any of the fields I will be speculating about.

To Google this or use other sources of information can get a bit complex really fast and the lack of time hinders me to do this as well. The CR4 short cut is on the cards! See were this line of inquiry leads me.

My understanding of this subject is based on picking up bits and pieces of medical technology, procedures, via science programs or documentaries and mostly late at night when my brain is on over load. I approach it very much like an artist would have a go at it. Or what is called a Bricoleur. I am an artist so knowing all about these possibly basic things are beyond me and any information would be appreciated.

http://cr4.globalspec.com/blogentry/7683/Bricoleur-or-Engineer-or

What can I do, I have to give it a go, just in theory. It beats playing computer games, if I can trust the body language of someone who plays them, so what the heck. Then get back to what I do best. Not sure what that is right now but I will find out one day.

In this http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/64391#newcomments thread (Thanks for commenting in that thread Anonymous Hero (I can see I nee to watch you v-e-r-y c-a-r-e-f-u-l-l-y. ;-)))) . You made me do this and now I am spending more time on trying to put words to a dream scene and hope I can get some feedback or just plain ridicule. Your background and interests should come in handy. I do hope that others will contribute as well, to making some of these processes more understandable to me.

Through this thread I was reminded that, many years ago, maybe even decades now, I had envisaged a way to treat cancer using a procedure which, to the best of my knowledge, has not been tried or experimented with.

In short, it is suggested to place the befallen tissue or part of the organ attacked by the cancer cells, on the outside of the body and attract the cancer cells to this sacrificial host to divide there and do what they do best, namely destroy themselves and the host in the end. Stupid, sick little puppies they are.

I hope Juice is reading this. He stuck his head out (in the above thread) asking about things he could not get his head around, so can I. He might have the facilities, one day, to run the suggested experiment. If he or anyone else finds merit in the experimental research required to confirm or disprove such an attempt good luck and hopefully some R&D funds come your way.

G.G.S

Simplified diagram

A sacrificial, outside of the body incubation, nourishing host container, test tube, would represent "The Greener Grass Side" GGS. This host could be fed and kept alive in a bypass system which would be enriched with all the favorite conditions cancer cells require to be successful in what they so undesirably do.

What kinds of chemicals do cancer cells uptake more rapidly than normal cells, and then how could we trigger an attack on just those cells by some kind of reaction with just that chemical, nutrient? (If the chemical was say light sensitive, and then the tumor (cancer cells) were exposed to light, the reaction could cause the cells to die, in the test tube.

These questions arise and are based on the following assumptions:

That all cancer cells are mobile; (Majority are fixed in tumor, some escape and establish elsewhere in body.)

1.

Why would a cancer cell decide to go outside of the organ it has established itself in?

a. Is there any evidence that cancer cells are of themselves mobile?

b. Are they pretty much fixed in place, with only occasional cells getting into the bloodstream to spread?

c. If a tumor is removed could it be place outside of the body to attract the cancer cells still in the blood stream, system?

One possibility could be that the conditions in the body, where the cancer cells are fought, poisoned with anti cancer drugs (Standard Chemo Therapy) are not conducive to cancer, they would have it harder to multiply in that environment. They might choose to move on if and when enticed.

In the G.G.S, in a completely free of "medication, poison", they would thrive, be supplied with what they like best and attract other cancer cells (if they move or spread) to these "Breeding Grounds". That circulation from the body to the GGS system will permit the cancer cells to accumulate there, while being repulsed by the treated organ inside the body.

The reaction of the cancer cells could be "I like this!", being in the less poisoned environment, the GGS sacrificial Organ.

Build it and they will come. Like in a fish pond were you have a designated feeding area. You attract the fish with certain food. Never mind if they are predators or plant eating. Just feed them the right stuff and they will remember where they were fed. I feed tad poles in my garden pond and they obey perfectly, depending on the food.

I am thinking that bacteria or viruses would react in the same way. I know bacteria would always go the highly nutrient part of a solution (body of water) so why not cancer cells if attracted by are more convenient surrounding? Anaerobic bacteria would avoid a high DO environment or die. They have this instinct, choice, I speculate.

Make them think that the 'grass is greener on the other side', which it really is for them, in this case. When the cells in the bloodstream recognize that the living conditions are not as tough here (GGS), they leave the "real body" and conglomerate in the sacrificial body part. The ones that stay are continuously bombarded by the chemo therapy.

Once the cancer cell count goes down or they are not present, the host GGS is removed and discarded. In the case of liver cancer the liver would regenerate once the cancer is gone. Other organs one can live without. Skin cancers would be the perfect scenario on a very small scale. Remove the melanoma, place it in a GGS environment and attract cells still in the blood stream to there.

The two By-Pass systems would be controlling what gets where and when. The length of time to keep such an out of the body system from operating is not an issue. Once optimal dosing is achieved in could be in operation as long as the doctors or patients wish.

The GGS system will somehow not permit immune system threats from host tissues/infection contamination/ drugs and cell destruction products back flowing into the body, the host.

The design of the apparatus would have to compensate for this. See drawing.

1. Would the body part/organ need to be human?

Transplanting animal organs or tissue, bones to humans is not unheard of. It has always been the problem of transplants being rejected by the transplant recipient. Because the suggested method is not inside the body and on a different blood circulation By-Pass loop, rejection of the foreign body could be easier controlled or governed.

2. Would the body part/organ need to be not only human but of an identical donor?

If situation #1 is not feasible could it be of advantage that the donor himself sacrifices an organ (liver, Kidney, Skin, Bone marrow etc) for an "outside the body treatment". I believe there are adequate techniques being performed to do just that; Keep an organ, tissue alive outside of a living animal or insects and even traces of DNA. to let them do what they do best.

This would also be the case if the presence of receptor cells is required to attract cancer cells. Could any tissue or organ attract cancer cells or does there have to be a predisposition of the tissue/organ to cancer?

Would the cancer cells adopt the GGS as the equivalent of the still in the body counterpart? Could they detect the difference? See behind the trick? Jumping the "Frog in the well" barrier? I don't think so, because chemical reactions don't think they happen for a certain reason.

3. Is there such an environment/drugs/fluids etc. that is conducive, attractive to growing cancer cells?

Like in the fish pond example and from other experience everything has to feed on something, even things that feed on themselves. If cancer cells grow, metastasis, then there should be a fuel that feeds this biological system.

What are the chemicals, nutrients, temperatures etc. to invite the growth of cancer? Or is it just the DNA of the patient that allows cancer to happen. If DNA (receptors) are conducive to the process place them in the GGS environment. Distract them, like in old fashioned warfare. If you have no mines bury tins, that'll slow them down. Its more of a booby trap than a mine though.

That the cancer cells are not "of the tissue" but exogenous to the tissue; (in my understanding, the 'cancer cells' in say lung cancer, are in fact lung tissue cells) that are replicating at rate far faster than normal, hogging nutrients and starving balance of organ of what it needs.

Would they not be better off somewhere else, were they are nurtured and not poisoned. This asks for the cells to be intelligent and be able to react to the offer of a better space for survival, to be able to multiply at will and be encouraged to do so. Will they somehow summon the rest of the tumor to migrate to where the grass is greener? Survival of the most opportunistic, sorry Charles.

Advantages:

When the cancerous organ/tissue dies, is consumed by the cancer outside of the donor, system, animal it avoids surgical removal of either the remaining tumor, cancer tissue or, most of the time, the surrounding tissues.

All By-Passes can be governed separately, depending on the required chemicals or nutrients that need to flow to the host or the GGS.

Any tissue that could be held alive on the outside could be used to attract the different cancers. Skin, Lung or Bone marrow, any organ or part thereof, that could be kept alive outside of the body.

All governing systems, instruments, By-Pass systems are in place, or so I think. Animals would be tested on first, I promise. No Dr. Frankenstein in sight.

Well that is about it. See what comes my way and I hope to be able to answer any questions if anything is unclear, which it possibly will be. Thanks for reading this far.

Hope all stays well, Ky.

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#1

Re: The Greener Grass On The Other Side. G.G.S

01/27/2011 5:36 PM

I can answer some of your questions.

Cancer cells divide rapidly and can invade into blood vessels as part of the process. If/when this happens cells can break loose and travel through the blood stream.

If/when a cell stops it can set up shop at the new site (metastasizes). Not all cancer cells can do this and some areas of the body are better at supporting metastasized cells then others.

The lymph system can also act as a great conduit for metastasizing cells. This is one of the reasons breast cancer is so insidious.

Lastly, cancer cells are not smart cells. If they sloth off and become mobile they have no direction equipment that causes them to seek anything. They may have a affinity to attach to different cells, but it is a crap shoot. That being said, any tumor tends to consume huge amounts of "food" and oxygen, so the body reacts by beefing up the blood supply to feed the tumor. Some work on both the detection front and the delivery of cancer fighting drugs uses this principle to go after cancer tumors.

I m not sure if there really is anyway to create a honey trap for rouge cancer cells and you could not be 100% sure to capture them. They spread pretty much randomly, sprinkling the body as they go and chance to set up shop where they will.

As I said, not all cancerous cells are the same, so some metastasize better in some regions than others do. Given enough rouge cells they can rapidly take over the body.

Tumors that do not metastasize at other locations are called benign tumors. Sarcomas and carcinomas are two different types of cancers that will metastasize. One starts with mesoderm cells and the other with epithelia cells. The origin of the cancer cell will determine its behaviors, such as aggressiveness, migratory nature, and the ability to be treated.

There are a very wide variety of cancers with a wide degree of attributes. This makes a single magic bullet for cancer a misnomer. In my opinion, the fight against cancer will be a slow slog and we will have to deal with each type in its own unique way.

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#8
In reply to #1

Re: The Greener Grass On The Other Side. G.G.S

01/28/2011 6:13 PM

Thanks for your thoughts AH

I will need much more time to read up on all the aspects that have by now been thrown into the ring. Here are some replies.

The lymph system can also act as a great conduit for metastasizing cells. This is one of the reasons breast cancer is so insidious.

I should have titled it an "artificial lymph system". Isn't that what lymph's do? Be a meeting place for cancer cells and then distribute them from there. Using a lymph gland (maybe from animal?) would provide just such a friendly environment.

Lastly, cancer cells are not smart cells. If they sloth off and become mobile they have no direction equipment that causes them to seek anything. They may have a affinity to attach to different cells, but it is a crap shoot.

"This asks for the cells to be intelligent and be able to react to the offer of a better space for survival, to be able to multiply at will and be encouraged to do so".

When Talking about intelligent I did not mean thinking or means of propulsion, transportation. I was more thinking of them having a chemical affinity to certain environments. An osmosis process moves particles and one cannot speak of deliberate movement. It's just something which happens by law.

The desire to attach to cells is, I think, secondary. Like in smell, detect the food first, and then nourish. I am again reminded that the function of the lymph systems caters just for that. Maybe the GGS is nothing else in its basic function.( honey trap for rouge cancer cells) I Liked that

That being said, any tumor tends to consume huge amounts of "food" and oxygen, so the body reacts by beefing up the blood supply to feed the tumor.

Would not the GGS cater perfectly for that? Without compromising the body of the patient. Just remove the tumor (or part of it) and connect the blood flow to the now in the GGS placed tumor. Give that all it needs but keep the circulation separate from the circulation of the body.

At least I am speculating in a more controlled environment now. I have a bit of home work to do, Ky.

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#11
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Re: The Greener Grass On The Other Side. G.G.S

01/28/2011 9:57 PM

Creating an artificial lymph system is sort of like making a new road in a dense city of roads. Traffic will still use existing roads and the existing roads will be a huge number. Sort of like blood vessels, the lymph system is huge.

There are between 500 and 1500 lymph nodes in the body and lymph vessels and capillaries branch out throughout the body.

I don't know the total length of all those vessels, but in comparison, consider the surface area of the human lung's alveoli, which works out to the size of a regulation tennis court. The lymph system probably easily exceeds that surface area. so you are talking about a lot of roadways.

You wrote, "Would not the GGS cater perfectly for that?"

Well, imagine unrolling a sticky roll of flypaper and holding it up outside while the air is full of drifting pollen. Yes, the sticky paper will capture some pollen, but the vast majority of it will land wherever the wind blows.

This is going to be the challenge you face. You can't get 100% coverage with the flypaper and no matter what kind of pretty flower prints you print on the sticky paper, the paper will only collect a fraction of the total pollen count.

Metastasizing cells will be floating everywhere in the body, much like pollen, and anchoring wherever a protein friendly spot may be. Your proposal may trap some of those cells, but I suspect that you would miss far more than you trap.

All of this assumes that whatever mechanism you choose to use has no negative affect on the person, which is another matter altogether.

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#2

Re: The Greener Grass On The Other Side. G.G.S

01/27/2011 7:07 PM

Ky,

I can answer at least one part of your question. Metastasis or movement of cancer cells from the original tumor site is caused and promoted by overexpression of specific proteins : TGF-beta (transforming growth factor beta), BMP (bone morphogenetic protein) and Dpp decapentaplegic protein.

I'm pretty sure that your GGS approach has never been considered - the usual train of thought is to find inhibitors of these proteins to prevent metastasis since it tends to be the fatal stage.

The GGS plan is to get all the tumor cells to move out; that's easy since we know you can promote TGF-beta to activate them. The problem would be how to make them move in the same direction, that is by some engineered way out of the body. If you made all the cells metastatic, how would you control the routes to prevent them from just spreading elsewhere in the body. I think that part of the equation is not as easy to figure out.

The model of "parasite" is not really a good analogy for the cancer cell, so the "attractant" idea doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. But there may be better models that arise from new research. For example, the Dpp protein has been found to have a role in normal cells of Drosophila fruit fly. Understanding the normal role could provide new clues as to how to control cancer cell behavior - could be tricky though.

I don't see the feasibility of taking the diseased organ out for treatment and then putting it back. I think some form of physical containment for the diseased area in the body would be an alternative, not sure how that could be engineered. You have to be sure that not a single cell can possibly burrow through into healthy tissue and spread elsewhere in the patient. You need a way to force the activated metastasing cells to take the only exit - those new 3D bioprinters could be used to make a tube out of the host tissue, maybe a mock lymphatic system, or certainly a blood vessel system, which are two typical routes for metastasis that a cancer cell on the move would expect to follow.

One downside of this approach is that a failure has clearly mortal risks. What failsafe could be built in to deal with cancer that manages to spread in the patient instead of heading down the GGS. A tricky question, for sure.

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#3
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Re: The Greener Grass On The Other Side. G.G.S

01/27/2011 7:32 PM

Thanks to both of you.

Your response shows that I must have phrased the questions proper. I will digest and get back to you. I'll wait for other responses too and then attempt to overcome the difficulties you, they suggest. Some I have dealt with in theory and have not included them in the OP. It would have ended up too long.

I appreciate your thoughts, Ky.

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#4
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Re: The Greener Grass On The Other Side. G.G.S

01/27/2011 8:37 PM

Metastasis is actually when lose cancer cells form a secondary tumor site, not necessarily the migration of the cancer cell itself, but the point where it homesteads into a new tissue or organ.

I know it is just semantics, but I thought that I should point that out.

The process starts when malignant cells break away from the primary tumor, are transported through blood vessels, or cellular walls and attach to and then denature proteins that make up the surrounding extracellular matrix or ECM.

Once that cellular wall is breached, the tumor cells can utilize the surrounding tissue as a new cite host and begin building a secondary tumor cite.

The process can also breach neighboring cells and cavities without taking a blood vessel or lymph vessel as a vector.

The big problem with metastasis is that by the time that stage has arrived the cancer is in a very aggressive mode. Staging of cancer is critical to the survival rate of the patient.

This is why early diagnosis is critical to successful treatment. The most meaningful thing you can do is early diagnosis so that the treatment can be simplified and has the highest rate of success.

Once metastasis has started the battle has taken on multiple fronts and presents complications due to organ failures. The body is in a degraded state and has a lower resistance to side effects of treatments. At this stage stopping or shepherding cancerous cells en-route is a little too late to be effective. In theory it would help, but does not arrest the primary and secondary tumors.

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#5
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Re: The Greener Grass On The Other Side. G.G.S

01/27/2011 8:54 PM

It's funny AH, I didn't see your first response until I had posted my own, but we gave very similar answers.

I'm not sure I agree about the semantics though. At least, in common usage nowadays, since the biomarkers for metastasis are known, cells which are at risk to migrate are identifiable and are referred to as "metastatic" cells in the primary tumor site as well.

You were certainly spot on about Egypt going up, BTW. Yemen as well. I guess, the more the merrier? at this point.

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#6
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Re: The Greener Grass On The Other Side. G.G.S

01/27/2011 9:33 PM

Yes, there was a real danger of this effect metastasizing in all of the Mid East to varying degrees. ;-)

I think there is a useful difference in the definition of metastatic cells verses the act of metastasis.

Metastatic cells have the potential of metastasizing in the body, so the definition for metastasizing still holds and makes sense. At least to me, but I am not an oncologist. ;-)

Nevertheless, it is a fascinating subject.

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#7
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Re: The Greener Grass On The Other Side. G.G.S

01/27/2011 9:51 PM

From OP

Distract them, like in old fashioned warfare. If you have no mines bury tins, that'll slow them down. Its more of a booby trap than a mine though.

The same could be said of diplomacy and its rules, tools and source of feed. They have their equivalent GGS in place. At least one should hope so.

There are many parallels of this happening in nature and in societies. A bit like the sacrificial lamb. I'll comment later, gotta go.

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#9
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Re: The Greener Grass On The Other Side. G.G.S

01/28/2011 6:20 PM

Hi artsmith

Same to you, thanks for contributing in such an informative way. Very helpful. As long as there is a chance of for and against, this idea will live. I'll have to prepare myself for what is to come and that will take time. At least my GGS is being reflected upon and that is more than I could have asked for.

We have two Cyclones on our doorstep so if I am off line for a while, not to worry. This is not going to be concluded confirmed or dismissed over night anyway.

Thanks for participating, Ky.

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#10
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Re: The Greener Grass On The Other Side. G.G.S

01/28/2011 6:37 PM

Good luck with the cyclones! Stay safe.

artsmith

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#12

Re: The Greener Grass On The Other Side. G.G.S

01/29/2011 8:19 AM

Blood is the only liquid organ of the human body. In a condition called Transfusion Associated Graft versus Host Disease the patient's blood is removed from the body irradiated with gamma rays and put back. As far as I know this is the only case of a human organ being removed, treated and put back. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10513059 http://www.ayubmed.edu.pk/JAMC/PAST/15-3/masood.htm Bioramani

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#15
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Re: The Greener Grass On The Other Side. G.G.S

01/29/2011 3:51 PM

Thank you.

I will rephrase some of my suggestions now that I have a better overview of the situation. Not understanding the intricacies of all participating aspects makes it hard not to let go and delve into full on speculation. That I will try to avoid that as much as I can.

I'll get to it, Ky.

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#13

Re: The Greener Grass On The Other Side. G.G.S

01/29/2011 11:01 AM

Does or could the technology exist today to permit cancerous organs to be removed from the body for treatment?

Fascinating concept, KY. One of my undergraduate professors once told me: "When confronted with a new idea, do not be too quick to say 'it can't be done'. Instead, ask 'What does it take to make this happen'?". So we want to remove an organ, heal the disease in the organ outside the body, and then replace the healed organ. Your diagram shows that very graphically.

Step 1: make sure the cancer is limited to the organ to be removed. There is no need to proceed further if the disease has spread to other areas, since the patient may die while the organ is being healed.

Step 2: if the diseased organ is required for survival of the body (heart, brain, lungs, etc.) then find a suitable donor for a transplant operation. This is critical in the early stages of implementation, but it may be possible to recycle the donor organs as the healed organs are put back in the original patient. However, it may be more feasible to just use the healed organ for subsequent transplants, instead of subjecting the patient to a second surgery cf: Hippocratic Oath - first do no harm. Non-essential organs (appendix, breast, etc.) would probably not be a candidate for this treatment, although I can understand how a woman might want to have a breast replaced or a man want a testicle back. My wife was a breast cancer survivor.

Step 3 is then the actual surgery and treatment of the organ as required. None of this faces any insurmountable challenges that I can see, and can probably be done with existing technology. The question will come down to relative cost vs effectiveness. Are we improving the basic quality of life or just doing something because it can be done?

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#16
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Re: The Greener Grass On The Other Side. G.G.S

01/29/2011 4:15 PM

Thanks Guest

So we want to remove an organ, heal the disease in the organ outside the body, and then replace the healed organ.

Well, not really. I wanted to avoid removing the complete organ but only harvest a part of the tissue and use that as the "honey pot". Distract the cancer cells from main tissue in the body, which is still bombarded with chemo therapy.

The bypass would then take the blood designed for that organ and lead it to the sacrificial, outside the body organ part. This would only be advised if there would be a recognized single cause of cancer Like in breast, lung or liver maybe even skin cancer.

I must have not made it clear but I do not want that organ to be removed nor put back. Only in cases were the organ could be removed without the need for a new one would I suggest using a complete organ.

Remember this all started with the thread about regrowing tissue of whatever kind.

Are we improving the basic quality of life or just doing something because it can be done?

I am sorry to report but I am doing this to find out, in theory, if it could be done at all. Really as experimental as it can get. I'll have a bit more study to do and then a bit.

I am constantly being distracted by our immediate environment so I'll leave it at that for now. I am taking everything in, as good as I can.

Talk to you later, Ky.

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#14

Re: The Greener Grass On The Other Side. G.G.S

01/29/2011 2:58 PM

Cancer is, in my opinion, a vitamin deficiency, just like scurvy. (non-contagious, metabolic, non-viral, non-bacterial, etc.)

Cancer cells are a function of the body 'overhealing', in the absence of the necessary vitamin (isolating toxins). They are naturally occurring types of cells in pregnancies that help attach the fetus to the wall of the uterus. they disappear at the 8 week mark, once the babies pancreas starts to function and produces a certain substance. (trypsin)

cancer affects at least 1 in 3-4 people in the US (worst country for cancer), not unrelated to the fast food / processed food industry, and the dominance of the FDA/big pharma parasitic grip on medical practice. Also note that it is illegal to have any natural product labelled as medicine. (organic apricot seeds are simple 'spices'. the pill version is also not 'medicine')

just like scurvy, if you provide the vitamin, the disease fades away, still leaving any damage done, which can still be terminal.

this topic is controversial of course... because big business has a lot of money with which to make it controversial, etc.

world without cancer.

Ed Griffin

Chris

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#17
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Re: The Greener Grass On The Other Side. G.G.S

01/29/2011 4:18 PM

I'm busy with protective actions against the two Cyclones coming our way and Heidi is in my ears. I'll comment a bit later but understand what you are saying.

It's this time of the year again, Ky.

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#18
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Re: The Greener Grass On The Other Side. G.G.S

01/29/2011 5:34 PM

I am sorry, but you could not be more wrong on this one.

Cancer is when a cell's metabolic cycle short circuits and remains in a steady state cycle of mitosis.

Cancer is not the lack of a simple vitamin deficiency nor is it the result of human industrialization and the creation of large corporations (A.K.A. Big Business).

If that were true, impoverished nations would have the highest incidents of cancer instead of Asia and North America (which is second, not first).

Cancer has been around since the dawn of time and is prevalent in humans as well as animals.

Cancer is not over-healing, it is a malfunctioning cell that has become immortal.

Cancers have a lot to due with environment as well as race and gender. There are also oncogenes that are passed down via heredity that increase the odds of getting cancers is some individuals.

If you really have an interest in the subject I would recommend some scholarly papers rather than homeopathic claims that have no clinical trials or data to back up their wild claims.

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#19
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Re: The Greener Grass On The Other Side. G.G.S

01/29/2011 7:02 PM

I am my own clinical trial. thats enough for me. I do not wish to debate it.

respectfully,

Chris

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#21
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Re: The Greener Grass On The Other Side. G.G.S

01/29/2011 7:29 PM

This is the n'th time that we cross the aether with thoughts, so connected, that it could be seen as a bit spooky. Hope all is well, we'll talk, Ky.

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#22
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Re: The Greener Grass On The Other Side. G.G.S

01/29/2011 7:42 PM

its the Ky factor in the flow equation... a constant.

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#23
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Re: The Greener Grass On The Other Side. G.G.S

01/29/2011 8:03 PM

Anything repeating itself will make some kind of a pattern one day. So I guess the answer is yes. What? That wasn't a question?

Rotate it fast enough and levitation, (Resisting gravity, not of the Newton kind) could be maintained. I am all over the place, like a crazy persons poo, but even that can create patterns.

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#20
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Re: The Greener Grass On The Other Side. G.G.S

01/29/2011 7:24 PM

Hi AH

I agree with you. It takes more than blaming anyone or anything to get a hold on cancer. I agree with Chris on the fact that the big boys have a lot to answer for but see that as part of a system that stinks at so many ends, that it is not conducive to solving problems, just to blame and to know where what stinks from were.

More to the point:

In nearly all your points, even in your earlier responses and well thought out contributions, I find encouragement. It will take a more detailed explanation of what I have in mind and I will try to get some ideas more solidified over the next days.

I will take some time out and get to the scholarly papers and try to understand these growth and anti symbiotic relationships between cause and elimination of cancer. I can only repeat that I have a huge information gap to fill but because I can be very selective in what I read I think it possible to get to a point were I could say: "That's it, I am getting nowhere, I'll leave it to the guys in charge."

I had the terrible thought that someone with the disease might read this and feel that hope could be on the horizon. Gruesome thought and I wish to apologize if that is the case. I did not think of maybe hurting peoples feelings and am of great health my self. It is really true inquisitiveness that is making me do this. A wish for more knowledge.

Gotta go again, more later, Ky.

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#24

Re: The Greener Grass On The Other Side. G.G.S

02/01/2011 8:42 AM

This post has the potential for creating a major breakthrough in treatment of cancer and other diseases. It also is showing signs of the very human aspect of ego and jealousy. The OP has a very specific idea which he has put a lot of himself into, and wants to hold onto as much of it as he can. Much of the criticism is valid, and in my opinion the original idea will not work and will probably be both expensive, uncomfortable, and will promote the spread of cancer through the patient. However, the idea of "cancerous organs to be removed from the body for treatment" with a temporary disconnect from the body to allow exposure to more radical and aggressive methods of treatment seems promising. Chemotherapy at concentrations lethal to the whole organism would be easy, as would a whole range of other, possibly yet undiscovered treatments. If the organ could be replaced -this is the whole point - and the organ was "healed" then there should be no rejection issues and no disruptive anti-rejection therapy would be needed.

The history of medicine shows us that solutions are easy once they are found, but before they are found, the treatments can be voodoo. The OP has a complex conceptual framework with several areas that may be antiproductive (that is, wrong), but a basic idea that could lead to positive treatments. Let us be accepting of creative thinking even if we do not like it. Please stick with this.

-from an ex-drug chemist

PS-thoughts and ideas from people recovering and/or suffering from illness are rich with insights and truth, even if they sometimes use words and language that may seem ridiculous or foolish (until you understand what the are saying).

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#25
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Re: The Greener Grass On The Other Side. G.G.S

02/01/2011 4:27 PM

Hi woodpower

I have no time to react at the moment. We have a weather system that is more dangerous than any cancer. I'll get back to you. Your thoughts on this are just down the line of responses I was expecting. I'll have to use my laptop over the next days because power will be down for sure soon.

Yasi

Wind power

Talk soon, Ky.

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#26
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Re: The Greener Grass On The Other Side. G.G.S

02/01/2011 5:53 PM

omg... they just said maybe cat 5? and it going to run right over magnetic island!

hope you have someplace safe to hide!!!

best of luck

chris

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#27
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Re: The Greener Grass On The Other Side. G.G.S

02/01/2011 6:40 PM

They have just declared that it is off the scale. This is the last I have to say for now. It will take some time before we get power back on once it is off. Its not looking good. We are as safe as can be. Inside the car inside a brick building inside the garage. It was a tight fit but I got the car in.

All the important gear in the boot and hold out for what they say will be 24 hours of ....... whatever it will be called after the event.

No need to reply, I'm outa here, Ky.

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#28
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Re: The Greener Grass On The Other Side. G.G.S

02/01/2011 7:32 PM

Best of luck. I guess you have stored water, food, and meds for the next few weeks.

Be safe, please!

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#29
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Re: The Greener Grass On The Other Side. G.G.S

02/04/2011 8:38 PM

Well Ky, we hope to hear from you soon... reports are that it could be weeks before power and data are restored fully.

here is one of the more shocking pictures of the devastation. there were only a few words on CNN and north american news channels of the situation.. because of the egyptian situation, and the states got a few cm of snow.

here's thinking of you, and what you have been through.

chris

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#30
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Re: The Greener Grass On The Other Side. G.G.S

02/05/2011 4:16 PM

I think I see you Ky, in this news video... so thankful you are alive.

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#31
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Re: The Greener Grass On The Other Side. G.G.S

02/07/2011 11:29 PM

That was the next evening. My coconut palms are no more. I or better we are very busy. It will take months to get back to normal. I'll report if I get the time. Some interesting engineering issues regarding the nuts and bolts of the whole thing. Stress on materials? You got it. I took some interesting photos.

Gotta go. The kiwi bloke has declared that his chainsaw runs on 3 things.

Diesel (instead of chain oil)

Gas or fuel as we call it here

And beer, cold beer or nothing goes.

More later, all is good, Ky.

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#32
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Re: The Greener Grass On The Other Side. G.G.S

02/07/2011 11:38 PM

woodpower

I have even less time now but I have more information or better leads to be able to follow up with a reply soon. It is a matter of phrasing it the correct way and to black box the different functions of the system. I'm on the case.

Talk soon, Ky.

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#33
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Re: The Greener Grass On The Other Side. G.G.S

02/10/2011 5:44 AM

Have a look at this. If they can do that, I'm on the case.

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/explorer/4828/Videos#tab-Videos/09347_00

I'll do a writeup on Yasi, should be interesting reading for engineers.

Head office after 6 days with no power.

Heidi's offer of some fruit from ice that had come our way.

Have one on me, Ky.

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#34
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Re: The Greener Grass On The Other Side. G.G.S

02/10/2011 8:16 AM

fascinating stuff Ky, about the skin.

and you obviously have a great treasure in Heidi, and that yasi has made you stronger as a couple.

best wishes

Chris

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