220V Psc Motor Converted To 110V?

This really a bad idea, modifying ratings & service of a motor. This is not a good engineering practice but perhaps it might work, its a risk actually. First engineering instinctive response is, at lower voltage, you get higher current on its winding coil and remember the winding is only designed for 230 V service at a certain Amperage rating. Having the same load and service probably will burn the winding of your motor consequently.

And without thermal overload relays and breaker installed in your system, it might as well burn your house.

For ¹/₄hp? Don't bother. Buy a ¹/₄hp motor at the correct voltage instead. £50GBP including manufacturer's warranty?

I would go with a bigger transformer personally, just to make sure that starting and running currents are handled correctly. I know 1/4 HP is less than 200 watts, but he would hate to have to replace it because starting is a problem or whatever......

I would go for a 500-600watt personally.....but your idea for a transformer is great and ebay is probably a good source.....

Don't some VFDs include step down/up possibilities? (not my strong point though!) and probably too expensive as well.....

My original thought was to just hook up both lines to 110v and it would just pull twice the amps. I assumed this would work because I know that standard household 220v (here in U.S. anyway) is just two seperate 110 lines. I also read somewhere that some heat pumps actually pull their 220v from a single 110v line, but don't know how accurate this is. I hadn't actually planned on messing with the windings until I had recieved the other info about splitting the pole windings. I didn't try to hook up the 110v as I theorized because the wiring diagram confused me. The motor originally had three wires coming out, blk, brn, pur. Blk and pur run winding and Blk and brn start winding. What confused me is the diagram shows black connected to a line and pur and brown connected to a line with a cap in series on brn. That's only two lines which in standard house wiring would be 110v, one hot, one nuetral. So possibly it is already to go on 110v.

Hi

To me it sounds like its way to complexed to be bothering with, I can only suggest as did the earlier answer, forget this motor, same yourself time and if you get it wrong, MONEY... fires especially in the home cause a lots of problems for you & insurance companies (they will do their damnest to get out of paying).. get your butt to Home Depot or a suitable supplier and buy a NEW "fit for purpose" motor, with a 12 month waranttee, etc.

please let us know how it all works out for you

Actually I'm going to use the motor for it's original purpose as a fan, but in my greenhouse, so I don't have to worry about burning the house down. I'm handyman by trade and in the winter money and work are short and time is plenty so this was something to fill the time and save me money and recycle. Originally I thought it would be a quick fix, but finding info on a particular motor can be difficult, so I'm hoping someone out there could help me out maybe I should post in a hvac forum since that's where it came from.

Friend, you have gotten all the best answers already. The hvac guys will tell you the same thing: but a new motor or buy a transformer. The cost to rewind it will be four to six times the cost of a motor that size.

As much as I empathise with you and your situation at this present time, I still say don't do it!

You may be a handyman of some experiance, that not withstanding, does not make you 100% compedant to complete this task.

I have over 35 years in the heavy electrical industry, and I would not try to do what you are.

OK so its only a greenhouse.. what about your safety? what would the knock-on effect of you being injured have on your family. We at is forum are appealing to your common sense when we ALL say.. LEAVE IT ALONE.

Besides, who has their greenhouse wired for 2, 110volts supplies, and if you want a fan, try a 110v second hand desk fan.. I'm sure that would suit that task, unless you have a greenhouse 100ft long by 30 ft wide.

I also must agree that the response from another forum would more than likely be the same.

In other words, it really can't be done safely or without a great deal of expense!

Actually, I do believe that the US 110 volt is only a single 220 volt Phase, with a center neutral.

Therefore if you take both "hot" legs, you have single phase 220 volts.

No neutral is required at all, just make sure earth is connected.....and the neutral is safely capped off.....

The only other point is, can the motor (probably 50 Hz) handle 60Hz? Some motors are marked as being 50/60Hz, if thats the case, no problem.....I would still try it, but watch for overheating for the first few days if 50Hz only.......good cooling is maybe required!! A small fan should take care of that......

I agree with you but if the 220V outlet is available which I think only in bigger houses or kitchens or in basements for Heating purposes.

Why not to look for it.

Mr. Guest,

I agree with Noudge79 of the Philippines that if you revive and use the motor in a 110V supply without any modications will result to motor overheating. Maintaining a hp load and service of 1/4 will result to doubling the current of 1.5A to 3A causing the windings to be stressful. However, motor can be used w/o modifications as long as you reduce the load to not exceeding 1/8hp.

Maintaining the hp and service of the motor in a 110V supply can be achieved by modifying the connections of the winding terminals, not rewinding it, but instead "split the pole windings in to 2 groups" as you mentioned. In case of a 4P motor, there will be 2 pole windings in each group, and 4 running wndg leads coming out. Therefore, each supply line will have two running winding leads connected, thus dividing the 3A into 1.5A in each lead. The starting windings need not to be modified, but there will be an effect in the starting.

Since you are DIY person, try doing it.

____________________

"Iron sharpens Iron"

Why do you want to go to 110?

All the previous posts inform you that it is either dangerous or costly.

As for the four wires: two are for the 220, and the other two are for the run capacitor, they are usually brown and or brown/ white.

As far I can follow your story, you seem to have a one phase motor with main and auxiliary winding.

You say each set of windings has 6 coils, this makes me think you have a six pole motor.

You have to do the following things

1) Disassemble the motor, take out the rotor.

2) Connect a 12 volts DC (direct current, this is important) supply to the main winding.

3) Take a compass and note the polarity of each coil. It should be north – south – north-south-north-south.

4) Measure with a good ohm meter the resistance of the main winding. Note this value, it will be around 10 until 30 ohm.

5) Divide the set of six coils into 2 groups of 3 coils. Place these two groups parallel. Solder 2 red leads to these parallel coils.

6) Measure the resistance between the 2 red leads. The resistance should now be one fourth of the original resistance measured in point 4. If the resistance is not equal to one fourth, you didn't make two equal groups of 3 coils.

7) Connect the 12 volt DC supply to the 2 red leads and measure again the magnetic poles. It should be again north-south-north-south-north-south. If the sequence is not as in point 3, you have to redo point number 5 and exchange the 2 leads from one group of 3 coils.

8) Now find the auxiliary winding.

9) Connect again the 12 Vdc supply and note the place of the magnetic poles.

10) The sequence should again be N – S – N – S – N – S. But these poles are shifted over an angle of one twelfth of your stator circumference.

11) Measure again the resistance (same as in point 4) the auxiliary winding resistance will be more than the main winding resistance. ( +/- 30 till 80 ohm)

12) Divide the set of six coils into 2 groups of 3 coils. Exactly the same as in point 5 , but now solder (braze) 2 black wires to the parallel coils.

13) Redo point 6 but now for the auxiliary winding. Resistance will be one fourth of the original value from point 11.

14) Redo point 7 but with the 2 black wires from the auxiliary winding.

15) Find the value of the original capacitor. If you can't find the value, connect a 110 volt AC supply over the capacitor and use the formule U = Z x I to determine Z. remember Z = 1 / (2 x 3.1415 x frequency x capacity)

16) For 110 volt the capacitor must be 4 times the value at 220 volt. This means buy a larger capacitor. Be sure to use a capacitor that can be connected permanently to the supply, DO NOT USE A START CAPACITOR, this will fail within seconds…

17) Connect the capacitor in series with the auxiliary winding. This means one black lead will be connected to the capacitor.

18) Connect the main winding parallel over the serie group auxiliary winding and capacitor. This means one red lead to the capacitor and the other red lead to the black lead from the auxiliary winding.

19) Connect the 110 Volt supply to the red /black joint and to the red / capacitor joint.

20) If every thing is done correctly, the motor will turn.

21) If the rotation direction is wrong, interchange the 2 red leads.

22) Good luck All information given without any liability.

I refer you to answer 1

Rudy thanks for all the info, thats the conclusion that I was coming to, but not sure if I have enough slack to make all the connections. Thanks to all for your opinions, you all seem to have legitimate points, but as I can see nobody can seem to agree on this and with my experience it might be better left alone. I still might try the hvac route just to see how one of these motors is powered in its original config. because I'm pretty sure my buddy said that it was 10/2 wire running to the heat pump, maybe there is supposed to be a transformer.

Well done... good decision

The only transformer in the Heat Pump would be a 220V - 24V. This is to run the controls.

Given its 230 volt motor and you only have 120 volts at the supply I would just go with a small auto transformer set up. At a 1.5 amp load that would mean you would only need a 180 VA transformer to step up the 120 to 240.

An auto transformer is just a transformer with one or more taps along the winding. What you would be looking for is an off the shelf 120/240 primary transformer and you would connect your 120 volt line to the center point and one end to the common line. That way you would get 240 volts from the other end to the common line plus the transformer itself only has to carry half the power not the full power.

Thats how I power my 230 volt 2 HP lathe over at my brothers garage using a single 120 volt line and a 1 KVA transformer.

I agree with you to us an auto-transformer of correct ratings.

Most of the auto-transformers are produced for 110 to 220 V for using imported or locally manufactured devices. It may be readily available instores selling new or used

I am fairly sure (US Electrician or El. Engineer needed) that the US 110 voltage is half of a 220 volt phase. the question is only, are both hot legs available in a house or not?

Therefore using the two hot legs and ignoring the neutral (just make sure that it cannot contact anything or anyone), will deliver 220 volts at 60Hz.. Which will probably be fully acceptable for most 1/4 HP motors....

That I already posted, after some thoughts on the subject after posting about possibly using a transformer.....which is simply not needed if both hot legs (great!!) are available....

United States of America A, B 120 V 60 Hz Standardized at 120 V. Electricity suppliers aim to keep most customers supplied between 114 and 126 V most of the time. 240 V/60 Hz used for large appliances. Large residential buildings frequently have 120/208V 3-phase power, with large appliances being connected between two of the phases, giving a voltage of 208 volts. Since 1962, Type B outlets are required by code in new construction and renovation. A T-slot Type B is rated for 20 amperes for use in kitchens or other areas using large 120 V appliances.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_power_around_the_world

In the U.S. and parts of Canada and Latin America, split phase <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split_phase> service is the most common. Split phase provides both 120 V and 240 V service with only three wires. Split phase has substations that provide intermediate voltage. The house voltages are provided by neighborhood transformers that lower the voltage of a phase of the distributed three-phase. The neutral is directly connected to the three-phase neutral. Socket voltages are only 120 V, but 240 V is available for heavy appliances because the two halves of a phase oppose each other.

Split phase2.png

A transformer supplying a 3-wire distribution system has a single-phase input (primary) winding. The output (secondary) winding is center-tapped and the center tap connected to a grounded neutral. This 3-wire system is common in countries with a standard phase-neutral voltage of 120 V. In this case, the transformer voltage is 120 V on either side of the center tap, giving 240 V between the two live conductors, shown as V1 and V2 in Fig. 1. The two outputs are properly called "legs", not "phases".

To sum up, he does not need a transformer, that voltage between legs is enough for his motor.....a short test should be made to prove the theory.

I don't wanna run 220v all the way there because it will be in my greenhouse about 200+ feet from the house. Hajee I appreciate the info but I don't quite understand how the phases work. I know that originally this motor is hooked up to standard household feed, but don't know what makes up the circuitry inside the heat pump as a whole because I didn't remove the motor. I do know that when a home panel is wired you have three service lines entering Hot Hot and nuetral. I believe the hots (or legs) are distibuted among the breakers and as you go down the line of breakers they are alternately powered by the hots as shown

breaker 1-hot1 breaker2-hot2

breaker3-hot2 breaker4-hot1

breaker5-hot1 breaker6-hot2

I believe I have noticed this but have never paid much attention. This would mean when a 220 breaker is installed it pulls power from each leg(hot1 and hot2) which are not in phase with each other. This would go with Hajee's information and the fact that if I ran this motor in parallel on a single 110v line (without a transformer) it would not work properly because the two windings would be on the same phase instead of opposing.

You are in error! The 220 volts is actually one phase with a central neutral (I have been informed several times by people in the US who should know what they were talking about that it is so).

There is a lot of equipment in use in the US that needs over 200 volts. I am quite sure that there is a 200+ volt type of simple connector, probably from Hubble or similar.

Its also easy to run a flexible cable with the two hot legs and ground......distance is not a problem within reason. But it would be better if an underground cable was properly installed eventually. For testing only a "wander" lead is acceptable.

By any chance do you already have a conduit from house to greenhouse? If you do, I think you can get by with pulling just one more wire. I will say I don't know what code would be on something like this, but you obviously already have 110V service in the greenhouse. One more wire to get the other leg of 110V and you would be in business.

If your present service is direct-burial cable, then once again I have to say "disregard"

Tom D.

If you are indeed in the U.S., why not just run a 220V line from the breaker box to the motor? It's not unusual to have 220V circuits run for things like hot tubs, pool pumps, welders, etc.

If not in the U.S., disregard

Tom D.