Previous in Forum: Ignition Not Working   Next in Forum: Diesel 5 or 6 Cylinder Engine
Close
Close
Close
8 comments
Rating: Comments: Nested
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 1053
Good Answers: 110

Nissan LEAF Test Drive

02/21/2011 2:56 PM

This weekend, I drove a Nissan LEAF at one of the Nissan promo events. Very nice car. Some people even like the styling. I don't.

Compared to other $32,000 cars, the LEAF is a bargain, offering a level of cool factor, gee-gaws and doo-dads, exclusivity, quiet, and smoothness in power delivery that is unmatched by any other car in that price range. In my state, you get the federal $7500 tax credit plus a state $5000 rebate, making the car a steal. But even without the incentives, the LEAF is a good deal. An Audi A4 in basic trim is about the same price and size, so makes for a good comparison.

The LEAF, at least for the time being, scores far higher on the cool scale: An Audi does not turn heads, does not stimulate any conversation about your car, and does not have as many things to play with on the instrument panel. As soon as you spend more for a new car than the $16,000 for a Honda Civic, every dollar you spend is just buying you more cool factor, perhaps assuaging you insecurities, and might be helping you consume less energy (a la the Prius or LEAF). If car buying were a rational activity, a person comparing a Civic with an Audi A4 would have to go for the Civic: it will cost far less to own, will be more reliable, will use less fuel, etc etc. The advantages of the Audi are very subtle: they are noteworthy for their driving feel and responsiveness, and they are less commonplace than a Civic – you are a little less likely to see yourself coming and going. The advantages of the LEAF over the Civic (and over the Audi) are dramatic.

You can pre-warm your LEAF interior by using by using a cell phone app. You can also use your cell phone to remotely check on charge status, to start up the charger at a particular time (typically when the rates drop), or to remind you to plug it in, if you forgot to do so. In my state, the overnight rate for charging is $.05 per kWh, so the LEAF costs about 1.5 cents per mile to fuel. Very few Audi drivers keep their cars for 10 years, and this will probably be true for the LEAF as well. So there is no need to amortize the cost of battery replacement, any more that you amortize the cost of engine and transmission replacement in the Audi. At $3.00 per gallon, the Audi cost about 12 cents per mile.

The LEAF will cause remote CO2 generation of about 3.5 tons per year (assuming the grid average sources), the Audi about 7.5 tons.

Driving the LEAF is unremarkable, other than having unusually good torque and smooth, quite power delivery. You just get in it and drive, like any other car. The "shifter" is unusually easy to use, and an extra flick of the lever (mounted where a typical console-mounted or shifter would be) will toggle between economy and regular modes. "Starting" does not require a key, an arrangement becoming more common with cars in general.

Interior volume is the same as the AUDI, but cargo volume is much larger.

Refueling is a huge advantage over a gasoline car: takes about 15 seconds to plug in each night.

Range is far more than most people can use. 100 miles per day is 36,500 miles per year – it is a very rare driver who drives that much. It's not the car for a traveling salesman, etc., but for general around town suburban use it is hard to beat.

It's also not a car for die-hard cheapskates and environmentalists, or for people who value simplicity over gee-gaws, but for those folks, there is my avatar vehicle.

__________________
Think big. Drive small.
Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#1

Re: Nissan LEAF Test Drive

02/21/2011 3:13 PM

Interesting. Thanks.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#2

Re: Nissan LEAF Test Drive

02/21/2011 4:06 PM

Thanks.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Deepest Darkest Rutherford Oz
Posts: 951
Good Answers: 145
#3

Re: Nissan LEAF Test Drive

02/21/2011 4:19 PM

Hmm maybe in your town a 100 mile range may be sufficient, but in Oz only ultra inner urban city dwellers would consider it adequate.

Here on the Central Coast most people work in Metropolitan Sydney or one of the outer suburbs. Average daily commute is 260km (160 miles) round trip so you'd be parked somewhere around Mt White (about 2/3rds the way home & merely a point on the map) waiting for a towtruck.

As for the weekend running around on the central coast you'd be "jacking in" anywhere you could, just so you could get through the day and get home.

Mind you if you lived somewhere like Newtown or Marrickville (inner city suburbs of Sydney, the home of urban feral greenies) then no drama as most people only travel within a radius of 8km (5 miles). With the added cache of being seen to be green.....

Nah I'll stick to my twincam 16v 180hp 740GLE Volvo Wagon, thanks all the same. At least I know that when I set off for a journey I'll be able to get home again even in the dark... Oh it only cost me $1000 Oz peso's. As for filling up it has a range of around (bit over 400miles) 650km (depending on how hard I spank it)on a 65 litre usable tank of fuel, filling takes 5 minutes so in the scheme of things its not a crippling time impost. I also take the opportunity to clean the windscreen and check the tyres but then I'm a safety conscious gearhead.....

For an electric car to be considered more than a greenie novelty it must have a useful range of at least 250miles between recharging anything less would be considered a golfcart.

__________________
There are two reasons for a man to do a thing, One that sounds good, and the real one...
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 1053
Good Answers: 110
#4
In reply to #3

Re: Nissan LEAF Test Drive

02/21/2011 7:43 PM

I notice that the average (one way) commute in Sydney is 35 minutes. If the average commute is 80 miles, that means you people are driving at an average speed of 137 mph. Imagine how fast you must go when the traffic clears!

Here, in the US, 80% of commuters drive less than 40 miles round trip, so the LEAF has more range than most people need. The Volt was designed with this in mind, and so has 40 mile electric range.

__________________
Think big. Drive small.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Deepest Darkest Rutherford Oz
Posts: 951
Good Answers: 145
#5
In reply to #4

Re: Nissan LEAF Test Drive

02/21/2011 8:54 PM

I don't know about 35 minutes, must be a survey from the early 80's.

Recent survey has shown that that the average Sydneysider (i.e. one that lives inside the Sydney metropolitan area which is from Engadine in the south to Berowra in the north to Penrith in the west and Campbelltown in the southwest) at least 1 1/2 hours each way for a 30km (19mile) commute(one way).

When I used to go to Sydney for work I budgeted 2 1/2 hours each way, the first part of my trip was down the F3 expressway which took around 45 to 50 minutes (on a good day) to get to Hornsby. After that all bets were off, It could take 1/2 an hour just to travel 5 km(2 miles). Glad I don't do that any more as I now work up in Newcastle. Similar distances but at least 1/2 the time to get there.

The F3 has a general limit of 110kph, though there are a couple of 90kph sections.

The Central Coast population in general are people who either got priced out of the Sydney housing market or wanted a sea/tree change but need to still work in Sydney to earn their daily bread.

So far as the Leaf is concerned, if the experience of Prius owners is anything to go by it will be a hard sell into the private market here. A used Prius here has all the cache of a Yugo in the U.S. It's all about the longevity of the battery and its replacement value. Locally the Oz Feral government threw lots of money at an embarrassed Toyota Motor Corp to build the hybrid Camry in Oz. Sales figures show that the Hybrid Camry has only been successfully sold to Federal, State government departments and a number of local councils. About 10% of the production has been bought privately, again its the cost of the replacement batteries which is the concern for private buyers.

Still its early days of the new battery technology and control/charging systems.

I can't help but wonder what if Ford had developed the Nuecleon concept further or if Gvang had been allowed to develop his steam car maybe we'd be in a better place.

__________________
There are two reasons for a man to do a thing, One that sounds good, and the real one...
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 1053
Good Answers: 110
#6
In reply to #5

Re: Nissan LEAF Test Drive

02/22/2011 11:43 AM

Your traffic makes Atlanta's (often considered the worst in the US) seem pretty tame. And to think... we all think of Australia as being wide open space punctuated by the occasional kangaroo or crocodile to swerve around while driving. Next, you'll be trying to convince me that your roads are paved!

I see that you have 7.5 people per square mile. We have 83. Macau must be pretty cozy, with 48,000.

__________________
Think big. Drive small.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Virginia, Georgia, Idaho
Posts: 1079
Good Answers: 30
#7
In reply to #3

Re: Nissan LEAF Test Drive

02/22/2011 3:27 PM

Why would anyone who commutes 160m per day buy a plug in EV with a range of 100M. Are you thinking that you are being duped into buying this car? You probably don't need a tractor rig either. Can you believe the nerve of those people that are trying to convince you to buy one, just to haul 20 tons of peaches? sheesh!

__________________
PFR Pressure busts pipes. Maybe you need better pipes.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Deepest Darkest Rutherford Oz
Posts: 951
Good Answers: 145
#8
In reply to #7

Re: Nissan LEAF Test Drive

02/22/2011 4:44 PM

Actually I have considered building my own EV as a design exercise. However the "practical" range available from current tech batteries means that at best, it would have to be a diesel hybrid to make sense in the real world. To be practical in the Sydney outer urban commute sense it must have an endurance equivalence of 200miles. Anything less would lead to tears..

As for my personal fleet, I have 1 Volvo 740 GLE Wagon (noted before), a 740 GL Sedan, a Peugeot 405 SRDT Wagon, a Landcruiser HJ45 Diesel Cab Tray ute and to round it out a 6V53 powered 12Ton KM Bedford 13 speed road ranger box, with a crane and a 22' tray. I've been eyeing off this really nice Scania Tipper but her indoors has said no unless I get rid of one of my other "toys".. She drives a Peugeot 205 Si.

The Leaf would probably make good sense in Japan or Hong Kong where the commute distance is short. There are probably people who live in some of the other capital cities of Oz like say Adelaide which is mostly flat. Where the local folk breed, live and die within the 4 square miles of the city center and peak hour lasts for about 20 minutes where it might work reasonably well.

As you aluded to its all about the right tool for the job, unfortunately for most folk they can only afford to buy one tool to do everything...

__________________
There are two reasons for a man to do a thing, One that sounds good, and the real one...
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 8 comments
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

K_Fry (2); lyn (1); PFR (1); PWSlack (1); Tobugrynbak (3)

Previous in Forum: Ignition Not Working   Next in Forum: Diesel 5 or 6 Cylinder Engine

Advertisement