Electron Gas

"I have sent it to many Universities and Engineering Forums but never got an answer."

I think I know why you never got an answer.

We're you going to generate the electricity with barges?

How much does electron gas weigh, by the way?

See next>

Of course he generates electricy with anchored barges.
Uses "Wave power".
Imagine how much he can get from a Tsunami.
Just has to be in the right place, at the right time!

If the planet increases in size as you suggest here (or people get smaller, I cannot quite figure it out), will this idea remain valid?

Where will these electrons come from? Will the electrons be stripped off of some metal (Unobtanium, maybe?), and the nuclei be sent by truck to the other end of the tube? Can the residual strong force of these nuclei be used for something?

And finally, how can LynDoor^® Industries get a piece of the action?

Before misunderstandings grow wild, let me describe the balloon.

1º- If the conducting surface os applied NOT to the outside but to the inside of the globe, we have just an oldfashioned rectifying electronic tube (A Diode).

The cathode is just a metallic cyclinder (Any metal is OK but I think they were made of thorium) with a heating resistror inside, so as they glowed red.

An enormous cloud of electrons were boiled out from this Cathode and collected by the positive Anode.

The codnductivity of these diodes was pretty high.

But if we apply the conductive surface to the OUTSIDE of the tube, the electrons still boil, exactly as the water boils.

But being enclosed in an insulated container, they have nowhere to go and so the number of electrons in the cloud increases until their pressure returns the same electrons to the Cathode than they are emitted. Just as in a water steam boiler.

This electron pressure is higher the higher is the voltage and also the Cathode temperature.

When we make this electron cloud run( By a voltage differential) along a very elongated balloon, The "Pinch" effect at high amperages, will separate the electrons from the wall (Just as in a Tokamak) and so the resistance to motion along the axis of the long balloon is nearly zero.

Electrons simply do not rub against the walls,

By the way, electrons wheigh much less than baryons or nuclei.

Thanks for the clarification. Any idea how big the tube would have to be to carry high voltage over a long distance?

What happens if it rains or snows? And don't forget birds.

GA - I'm missing what you're missing

I think this is a similar question. How/why is this circuit working?

The anode has 'electron gas' but is always dc correct. Note: not all opamps work in this circuit which is another interesting question.

I have now put on a PCB for further tests.

Why would the electrons not just cluster against the inside of the tube? Pressure is only meaningful when gas particles hit something, bounce off, and live to bounce back another time.

Consider the difference between a basket-ball being dropped to the ground^[1], and one being actively bounced (dribbled) by a player^[2]. Now consider a lot of similar balls, and average over time. What happens?

[1] This is like an electron in a DC potential.

[2] This is like a thermally excited atom or molecule in a gas.

_{OMG - why, oh why am I bothering?}

_{"OMG - why, oh why am I bothering?"}

Trust me we have all been there and felt that same feeling which is best summed up as a, Forsaken Attempt Intended for the Learning or Understanding of Rational Engineering, FAILURE for short.

Maybe we should start a support group club for those of use who have met with the issues relating to having tried to deal with life's FAILURE's?

Warning: Never perform any experiment without any good knowledge and background of the Laws of Physics

The worst is you might get killed!

There is an electron cloud, never heard-now there exist an electron gas

What could be next, probably an aqueous electron or perhaps electron rain, or may be electron sky.

Chorete,

One of the downfalls for "creative" people such as you and joe.fordham and Krepsky is that your historical genius is forever preserved in all it's glory in your profile.

I have gone back and looked at your other "interesting" posts, and can only conclude that hallucinogens must be legal where you live.

I find it difficult to believe that you could conceive of such rubbish if not somehow impaired.

But, keep trying. You never know when you might actually, "solve some High School Electrostactis problem " and collide with reality, no matter how small the odds.

Under ordinary conditions* you cannot have both a cloud of electrons and a surface charge of electrons. The electrons in the initially created cloud would mutually repulse each other and go to the outermost surface of the 'balloon'.

You seem to think that these electrons on the balloons' surface have strong enough repulsion to avoid the balloon collapsing due to air pressure, thus keeping the balloon expanded. If this were true, you could take an empty aluminized mylar balloon, close the end, then charge it up by shuffling your feet across a rug and have the balloon appear to inflate. Please make a video of this if you manage to do this, I'd like to see it happen.

*_{The only possible exception to this I can think of might be 'ball lightning'. It is a very strange phenomena that scientists cannot convincingly explain.}

Chorete;

You would need a whole lot (many tens of, if not hundeds of, or thousands of, or maybe a whole lot of thousands of thousands of) - long, thin, and pointy recieving electron conducting antenneas (anodes) placed in the proper distance from the appropriate angles as well as torwards the source of these realised/released/propelled/now free electrons, regarding the spatial orientation, and the physical limits properties of the cathode placed in relation of the inner surface of the balloon.

These antennae could attract the eath's natural magneto-motive energie's field components towards the 'inner shield' of the balloon and may or may not; no doubt must be plated with some sort of "propietary" precious metals. alloys or not, to act as a plausible 'Anode' in your endeavour.

These same "antennae attractors" would act the same as a lighting rod or a bias control plate in a triode.

Good luck - it could work, as it sounds sound - Loupy

Re; 'long, thin, and pointy receiving electron conducting antenna's (anodes) placed in the proper distance from the appropriate angles as well as towards the source of these realised/released/propelled/now free electrons, regarding the spatial orientation, and the physical limits properties of the cathode placed in relation of the inner surface of the balloon'

I meant to suggest recent nano tech applications that applies to integrating nano miniature antennae structures into the matrix of film laminates which may be adhered to surfaces or free standing.

The world's biggest 'Giant Flying Triode' seems to be a 'given' in the Guinness Register of ' World Records". - I would really like to see it happen, Chorete

- Loupy.

"ok?.......looks promising.... so far ...... why don't you just go right ahead, and throw some rough, ball park numbers our way, just so - that 'we' can try to get a 'gut' feeling for this, and try to wrap our heads arouhd this whole deal - okay?"

Thanks a whole bunch - Loupy.

Hi,

this seems to be a good idea, but:

you will not be able to fill the container with an electron gas as there is the need of a potential between anode and cathode to pull the electrons out.

You have to maintain this potential (=voltage difference) between your emitter(s) and the cloud of electron gas in the vicinity. The electron cloud is shielding any potential further away.

So you have to suck some electrons from your cloud in order to press in some more: you generate an electron current in a vacuum tube.

So usually electrons are generated by hot filaments (heated tungsten wire) and the surrounding electron cloud is sucked away from the filament by a potential. (Look into the construction of an old type TV screen, the electron guns used there are of this construction.) Or a hot cathode is used.

An electron-cyclotron resonance is used to enhance the density of the electrons, also sputter sources use magnetic caging of electrons.

But all these devices have very low electron densities - and need an electron current to maintain these -. We would be happy if a density according to your idea would be possible:

Space-probes ion drives would be much more efficient! Also vacuum metal deposition, chemical vapor deposition, gain in vacuum tubes, pulsed HF energy by traveling wave tubes, high-voltage high-current switches and many more would be possible.

Only physics seems not to allow this, your electron cloud prevents more electrons to be pressed in at very low densities (although many kilovolts).

RHABE

From my student days, the cathode would have to be Kryptonite, not a thorium compound, and the anode, Planet Earth. Also, the container has to be latex, not plastic.

Seeing is believing...

But Seriously Folks:

Electrons have mass.
m_e, is 9.109 382 15(45) x 10^-31 kg.
This is why the Gold Leaf electroscope works.
But, to fill a container with electrons requires it to be filled with atoms.
In a vacuum, inside and outside a container, This idea might be possible.
The container would have to have an enormous, controlled, positive charge on its outside. Now, what is the mass and charge of Space? Why is it expanding so fast?

Uncle Albert said,

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

See also: http://www.windows2universe.org/earth/Atmosphere/stratosphere.html
This man is dangerous. He may try to construct his own Linear Accelerator! Call it The Tower of Babel...

OK Guys.

Now I have to tell the complete story.

This idea is not mine It belongs to one of my best friends, a really genial russian scientist, that most of the times consults with me excellent ideas.

But, maybe because he suffered torture in Siberia, his brilliant mind cannot be completely trusted.

Sometimes his ideas are childlishly wrong. I have spent many days and effort experimenting for him ideas that were totally false.

I really like this one. but This time I did not dare to perform the experiments he proposed me, because I am too old and any problem with a very high voltage can easily kill me.

This is why I am so anxious to find out if he is right or wrong.

If he is right the idea is of extreme importance.

<http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0805/0805.0230.pdf>

chorete

Here's another.
If you have a mountain, thousands of feet high:

Put a black plastic UV resistant tube from botton to top.
Convection can power a generator. Temp at bottom
is much higher than top. Do the calc's.

Dave, another mad scientist....

First, if you have a container that is evacuated, if the relative density of it is lower then air, it will float without your electron gas. Second, the first layer of electrons from the cloud, the closest to the wall, will shield the anode potential (Faraday principle) making electron emission harder (requiring higher voltage between the electrodes), you will get very fast to limit of your potential output. Similar to the permanent magnets made by casting the alloy and let it solidify in strong magnetic field, there are substances that retain static charges when solidified under strong electric field. Of the latest, there is no use because the ions and/ electrons from air get stuck on does surfaces, shielding the field. The electrons quantity that you will be able to emit in that cloud will be given by the voltage considering your container as a capacitor in void/ wall medium with its surface equivalent with that of the container and the distance between plates, the thickness of the wall. The potential to expand the bag, if is thin-walled is the eqivalen of the potential you have to apply to an electroscop, for the streaps of metal to part, but instead of a pair of very thin foils, you repace them with steel spring 1/32 thick welded at one end.

As for Dave's idea, is workable with the amendment that, without solar energy to heat the air under the cover, it will not work. The air when goes up gets colder because of adiabatic transformation. That is why on top of the updraft you see clouds as condensed humidity.

Nice preference chorete, probably your friend there is just having good time, or have you any drink when you have the conversation? Like the Last beer

I think we have a perception problem here.

http://www.faradnet.com/
http://www.translatorscafe.com/cafe/units-converter/electrostatic-capacitance/c/

It seems that what is described is a capacitor.

Charge (Potential Difference) can exist between insulators.

Experiment: Inflate a condom. Rub it on a hairy surface, then throw it towards the ceiling.

It will stick to the ceiling, until the charge is dissipated.

The air inside it, the air in the room, the ceiling, and the condom are all fairly good insulators. Since the attractive force is not magnetic, it must be electrostatic.

The condom was filled with gas, not electron gas. The gas became charged. That is, electrons were added or freed to circulate around the exixting atoms. The ceiling remained in its neutral state.

The potential difference between condom and ceiling caused attracion and adhesion.

Don't stand under a tree in a thunderstorm!

Dear Apothicus,

I couldn't have said it better!

Dave

The problem of electrostatics is a bit on the complex side. When you place a conductor on the outside of the container you set up a condition where in effect the charges will coat the inside and form a capacitor on the outside. The pressure gradient is between the inside wall and outside wall only and counter balance nearly uniformly. The net pressure on the inside wall will be minimal as it is counter balanced by the opposing wall.

Your set up is then as follows. Air molecules hitting the outside of the container = 15 psi. The contain walls have a radial pressure between the inside and outside only that counter balance each other but not the air pressure. Net result is you do not get a net electric pressure built up.

If you inject electrons inside the container using an electron beam you would achieve an electron gas, however eventually opposite charges would build up on the outside and then neutralize the effect. There may be some pressure from the inner surface charge that would appear to inflate the container if it was in a vacuum. Eventually the voltage gradient across the container walls would tear it apart.

In all cases there would be a net pressure trying to inflate the container but I feel it would be too way to small to inflate against air pressure.

I would experiment with your container in a vacuum and inject the electrons using an electron gun (not exactly an easy set up nor inexpensive experiment).

To make the process work you would leave the conductive coating off the outside of the container. You would need two containers, coat the inside with metal nothing on the outside. Separate the two containers as they will be operated at opposite polarity. The separation should be in the opposite direction to that you wish to float up.

Apply a very high voltage and high frequency AC between the two containers (opposite polarity to each container). Use a resonant tank circuit for low power. This is the only way you may generate pressure on the container. Opposite walls of the container will repel each other. AC changes the container polarity BEFORE the charge is neutralized through the attraction of ions onto the surface of the container. Expect a lot of electrostatic glow on the outside.

Contact one or more of the Tesla coil groups as this is something they may want to play with. They have the inexpensive high frequency oscillators that would do the job.

In conclusion I do not know if it will work but may. The high voltage and high frequency needed will be very large but within the range of a Tesla coil. However I feel a high frequency power amplifier will be needed to provide a continuous AC signal which a Tesla coil does not.

My two cents for what it is worth

Dave