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Guru
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Movement of Equinoxes

04/16/2011 6:33 AM

While mentioning the position of planets, satellites and stars in astrology, two types of systems followed in India, Nirayana and sayana. The difference between these two is called 'ayanamsa'. It is believed that this difference is caused by extremely slow movement of Earth's equinoxes. Can experts in astronomy/astrology enlighten on this subject as what is equinoxes, how it is measured, when it started moving, which is true position of planets and so on.

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#1

Re: Movement of equinoxes

04/16/2011 7:18 AM

You should not put the words "astrology" and "astronomy" into the same composition.

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#6
In reply to #1

Re: Movement of equinoxes

04/17/2011 12:32 AM

actually... (based on my favourite author Zecharia Sitchin) we learned of both these things from the ancient gods. Astrononomy is the measureable parts of the skies, and Astrology is a system of interpretation, relative to earth.

The ancient gods based their own earthly political system on the astrology surrounding earth. (even prior to creating mankind)

Chris

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#2

Re: Movement of equinoxes

04/16/2011 7:46 AM

I agree with Tornado. Astrology is voodoo.

Equinox - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Movement of equinoxes

04/16/2011 7:59 AM

You might be surprised to know that voodoo actually works, in an indirect sense. The effectiveness of a voodoo "curse" depends on the recipient knowing about it, believing in it, and getting flummoxed enough to become accident-prone. The "curse" is not the key; rather, it is the impressionableness of the victim. In psychology, this is known as "learned helplessness."

Similar with religion and pseudoscience in general.

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#5
In reply to #3

Re: Movement of equinoxes

04/16/2011 9:39 AM

You have to believe. I don't.

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Guru
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#7
In reply to #2

Re: Movement of equinoxes

04/17/2011 12:34 AM

a lost art for sure.. but not crazy... originally.

but the same thing that has happened to astrology has happened to say... the bible and religions.

the original stories, context, and meanings are long lost.

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#9
In reply to #7

Re: Movement of equinoxes

04/18/2011 5:39 PM

quote "but the same thing that has happened to astrology has happened to say... the bible and religions." end quote

The "thing" that happened to the human race is the same thing that happened when I grew up. At some point I stopped believing in all my imaginary friends.

Astrology says the position of Pluto when I was born has some affect on me. Someone explained it as the planets gravity affecting the "tides" in our brains influenced our personalities and decisions. What ....... the mass of the doctor would have a larger gravitational affect on a new born than the position of Pluto.

But now I know whay my life is so screwed up ....... they had the dates of the signs wrong and I've been reading the wrong horoscope every day.

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Movement of equinoxes

04/18/2011 7:33 PM

hee hee hee

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#11
In reply to #9

Re: Movement of equinoxes

04/19/2011 5:45 PM

Now there's a question: how come Pluto is in astrology before 1930?

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Movement of equinoxes

04/19/2011 9:25 PM

Here is an imprint from a Sumerian cylinder seal, showing the sun shape and 11 bumps local to it. These represent the known bodies of the solar system at that time. (colours are mine)

sun, mercury, venus, earth/moon, mars, jupiter, saturn, uranus, neptune and pluto.

of course, they also stiplate the presence of another planet... aka planet X or the 12th planet. which has a 3600 earth-year orbit or nibiru-year.

The sumerians attribute all knowledge being given to them by the gods. In this seal, the story shows a seated god (with funky hat) handing down the plow...

there is other technology in the image... including a simple chair or stool.. but not so simple to invent or build, if there are no precedents..

the astrology and astronomy of ancient times were equal in stature and concurrent.

the changing of rulers prior to human kings or demigods changed with the nibiru year, or Sar as it was called.

chris

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#4

Re: Movement of equinoxes

04/16/2011 8:52 AM

The term used for this phenomenon is "precession".

This wiki on precession of the equinoxes gives some history as well, how and by whom it was discovered that relative positions of the stars were changing over time etc.

It is a fact that the ancient astronomers were closely tied to religious practices, since the early religions were largely a celebration of our knowledge of the seasons, the compass, and the cosmos. Ancient temples were constructed to align with specific stars on specific dates; precession over millenia has caused those alignments to change, but also provides a means of calculating and identifying the star which was originally viewed from the temple structure.

The constellations and the stories associated can be considered as a mnemonic to assist ordinary folk to remember their knowledge of the stars, crucial for navigation and orientation, and marking important seasonal events such as planting cycles or the onset of specific weather, with their rising and setting. The general interest in astrology as an amusement provides a reason for (ordinary, non-astronomer) people to examine, preserve or make available the sort of data you are asking about. For example, the rate of precession can be quickly assessed on this website exploring the symbolic meanings of fixed stars, which lists positions in 1950 and 2000 on the left side of the page. From the point of view of preserving a widespread interest in astronomical knowledge and history, as well as authentically useful knowledge that would still be relevant and accessible if our present society collapsed, while astrology may be "bunkum", it does serve a purpose in human culture. I see nothing wrong with that.

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#8

Re: Movement of Equinoxes

04/17/2011 8:36 AM

The earth is tilted about 23 degrees to the plane of its orbit. The equinoxes are the points in the orbit which occur in the spring and fall where the plane of the equator and the plane of the orbit intersect. If you've ever played with a gyroscope, you've probably noticed that it wobbles around in a circle (precesses). This caused by the force of gravity trying to lay the gyroscope down. The gyroscope reacts in a perpendicular direction, tracing a circle with the axis. A similar effect occurs with the earth by the gravity of the moon and sun acting on the equatorial bulge, which causes the earth's axis to precess in a circle over a period of about 26000 years. As you can see, as the earth's axis changes direction, the equinox points where the equatorial and orbital planes intersect advances to a new point in the orbit.

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#13
In reply to #8

Re: Movement of Equinoxes

04/20/2011 12:51 AM

I also read somewhere that it precess about 50" (seconds) in an year which approx. corresponds to 360 degrees in 26000 years. I wanted know why it is happening? Is the earth's tilted axis is responsible for it or gravitational force of moon and sun? I have some more questions on this issue:

1. Raffle's Ephemeris give longitudes of planets (referred as Sayana position of planets). Western astrologers follow these positions. In India, astrologers in vedic system of astrology or Hindu astrology follow Nirayana position of planets which is around 23 degrees lesser than Sayana positions. This difference between Sayana and Nirayana positions (23 degrees) is called Ayanamsa. It is increasing every year by about 50" (seconds). My question is true position for astrological calculations?

2. Value of Ayanamsa is different according to different schools of thought (authorities on astrology in India). It differs even up to 1 degree. They claim that their Ayanamsa is correct because it give good predictive result. So, if basic value itself is different, is it not a hoax?

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Movement of Equinoxes

04/20/2011 2:34 AM

Part 2, in the final question, contains the seeds of a true understanding.

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#15

Re: Movement of Equinoxes

04/20/2011 8:15 AM

here is another proposal to explain oddities in the solar system and earth motions.

somewhere on cr4 last year, someone posted an spectacular link to a video that explained all the forces and motion of the earth.... I just can't find it right now.

Chris

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#16
In reply to #15

Re: Movement of Equinoxes

04/20/2011 12:10 PM

Interesting but just stops and the buildings and numbers. Is there a part 2?

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